Topic: Labour Thread * No Gaza *

[Kenny's Jacket]

I'm agreeing with you! None of us know what outcome Owen Jones wants at the next election because he hasn't said - beyond "not a Labour government." He may even - in the Trotskyist tradition he inherited from mum and dad - want another Tory one in the belief that it will intensify the class struggle and bring socialist revolution and working-class power closer to Britain. But, like you, I'm only guessing.

I dont think thats the case, Hed vote Tory if he wanted that. He spends a lot of time criticising the Tories, and has said he will vote Green

He used to join his MP on campaigns

[killer-heels]

Even despite being almost 40-years old, Jones is still ridiculously naive. As part of his leaving article, he has said there is a campaign called we deserve better that is raising money to help green and left wing candidates. Something that has no chance of success.

The prick isnt even willing to give it a chance. I am as critical of Labour as anyone and yet its stupid to consider voting for anyone else and at least as a member he can maybe help to change things?

Also I fully believe if we are 3 or so years into a Labour government and the party have been cautious with no discernible difference in the UK then the pressure will rightly be on Labour and hopefully he can sack Rachel Reeves.

[TepidT2O]

Even despite being almost 40-years old, Jones is still ridiculously naive. As part of his leaving article, he has said there is a campaign called we deserve better that is raising money to help green and left wing candidates. Something that has no chance of success.

The prick isnt even willing to give it a chance. I am as critical of Labour as anyone and yet its stupid to consider voting for anyone else and at least as a member he can maybe help to change things?

Also I fully believe if we are 3 or so years into a Labour government and the party have been cautious with no discernible difference in the UK then the pressure will rightly be on Labour and hopefully he can sack Rachel Reeves.

[classycarra]

Even despite being almost 40-years old, Jones is still ridiculously naive. As part of his leaving article, he has said there is a campaign called we deserve better that is raising money to help green and left wing candidates. Something that has no chance of success.

not to mention that of the three names of people associated with 'We Deserve Better' that he and the guardian championed, they've already had to edit it to delete one of the names. On account of Hamza Ali Shah being proven a filthy sectarian, racist, anti-abortion misogynist and a homophobe on twitter.
https://twitter.com/chris_grey___/status/1770840515249864943

This is who he and the Guardian point their readers to, when warning about the dangers of Labour being elected...! Pretty instructive he can promote abhorrent hateful c*nts like Hamza but can't get behind the idea of a democratic labour government

" He may even - in the Trotskyist tradition he inherited from mum and dad - want another Tory one in the belief that it will intensify the class struggle and bring socialist revolution and working-class power closer to Britain.

Ahem, not mum and dad but "his ancestors"

Seems like that was part of his strategy to avoid naming his Militant Tendency parents when he was referring to his family's history with the labour party. Long line of entryism I guess, and both generations present at the scene of the most prominent (and greatest failures) outings of the fringe left using Labour's machinery for as long as could be tolerated by non-cranks (not very long).

How lame/conservative is Jones by the way, how can some people view him as rebellious when he's an oxford graduate who's unthinkingly taken on his parents exact politics.

It's been a very funny few days since he left!

[Sammy5IsAlive]

not to mention that of the three names of people associated with 'We Deserve Better' that he and the guardian championed, they've already had to edit it to delete one of the names. On account of Hamza Ali Shah being proven a filthy sectarian, racist, anti-abortion misogynist and a homophobe on twitter.
https://twitter.com/chris_grey___/status/1770840515249864943

This is who he and the Guardian point their readers to, when warning about the dangers of Labour being elected...! Pretty instructive he can promote abhorrent hateful c*nts like Hamza but can't get behind the idea of a democratic labour government
Ahem, not mum and dad but "his ancestors"

Seems like that was part of his strategy to avoid naming his Militant Tendency parents when he was referring to his family's history with the labour party. Long line of entryism I guess, and both generations present at the scene of the most prominent (and greatest failures) outings of the fringe left using Labour's machinery for as long as could be tolerated by non-cranks (not very long).

How lame/conservative is Jones by the way, how can some people view him as rebellious when he's an oxford graduate who's unthinkingly taken on his parents exact politics.

It's been a very funny few days since he left!

Slightly disconcerting to see such a voice of moderation and enlightenment describe describe someone of Arab ethnicity as 'filthy' 

[TepidT2O]

Slightly disconcerting to see such a voice of moderation and enlightenment describe describe someone of Arab ethnicity as 'filthy' 

Filthy sectarian isn’t ok, but c*nt is?

I don’t understand.

[Draex]

Starmer is the grey man, he has to be, that’s how much power the right wing media has in this country.

He has my vote but is on watch to implement proper policies once in power, I accept he has to keep it grey and middle to get into power it’s what he does when he’s there for me.

I will say one thing, he is nothing like the current bunch of morally corrupt, greedy, racist, foul pricks mascarading as Tory’s.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Slightly disconcerting to see such a voice of moderation and enlightenment describe describe someone of Arab ethnicity as 'filthy' 

Oh, do F.O.

[Red-Soldier]

Minimum wage is UK’s ‘most successful economic policy in a generation’

Resolution Foundation study suggests lowest earners are £6,000 a year better off due to policy

The minimum wage has driven up the pay of millions of Britain’s lowest earners by £6,000 a year, making it the single most successful economic policy in a generation, according to a leading thinktank.

Since its introduction in 1999 by Tony Blair’s first Labour administration the policy has secured cross-party agreement, and should be seen as the basis for further improvements in the welfare of low wage workers, the Resolution Foundation said.

The minimum wage will increase on Monday 1 April as it rises from £10.42 to £11.44, in the third-highest annual change in its history – a rise of 9.8% in cash terms and 7.8% above inflation.

In a study released to mark 25 years since the policy’s introduction, the foundation said workers would have been £6,000 a year worse off since 1999 if their pay had only risen in line with average wages rather than the increases recommended by the independent Low Pay Commission.

Nye Cominetti, principal economist at the Resolution Foundation, said parliament should use a review of the commission’s remit “to discuss the future of the minimum wage and low pay more widely ahead of the election”.

She said: “Politicians should reflect on why the minimum wage has been so successful – such as the combination of long-term political direction and independent, expert-led oversight – and whether this approach could be broadened to tackle some of the UK’s other low pay challenges.”

The foundation said MPs should consider how the level of statutory sick pay had fallen in relation to average wages and could be brought under the umbrella of the commission.

Some critics of the minimum wage have argued it is too high while others believe it has not risen fast enough to reduce poverty in the UK.

The Living Wage Foundation charity operates the real living wage, which sets a minimum £12 an hour wage across the UK and £13.15 in London.

It is aimed at UK workers aged 18 and over but it is not a legal requirement, and businesses choose whether to pay it.

The charity says more than 460,000 employees working for 14,000 firms currently receive the real living wage.

A report by the International Monetary Fund on the effect of minimum wages across developed and developing countries found that “research spanning several decades has not settled the debate”.

It said that some studies found a minimum wage had significant benefits for workers while “others conclude that it is harmful. Many studies have been inconclusive”.

The Resolution Foundation said analysis of the UK showed that between 1980 and 1998, hourly pay growth in the UK was twice as fast for the highest earners as it was for the lowest earners – 3.1% versus 1.4% a year.

“But since 1999 this trend has reversed, and hourly pay inequality has fallen with pay growth for the lowest earners five times that seen by the highest earners – 1.6% versus 0.3 per cent per year,” it said.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/mar/27/minimum-wage-is-uks-most-successful-economic-policy-in-a-generation

[RedSince86]

David Lammy's X account.

The Guy has a thick skin, every post of his is just full of replies reminding him of his pro IDF stance and money he's taken from Friends Of Israel lobby group.

[classycarra]

Slightly disconcerting to see such a voice of moderation and enlightenment describe describe someone of Arab ethnicity as 'filthy' 

Wow, what a bizarre and ugly claim! You don't think it's ok to describe racists and homophobes negatively as dirty?

I'm quite comfortable treating white racists and arab racists (plus homophobes etc) the same way, even if you are saying they should be treated differently because of their ethnicity.

I'd say the issue is evidently on your side. Certainly, if your thought reading my sentence of descriptors was that the bit about the guy that was dirty was his ethnicity rather than his traits I'd think you're the person who may need to address whether you may have some inherent ugly racist biases to address.

You can find me describing another racist c*nt as "filthy" here if you'd like (please don't think me unenlightened for saying such things about a white person) - https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=353137.msg18752024#msg18752024

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Filthy sectarian isn’t ok, but c*nt is?

I don’t understand.

The idea of Arabs being dirty/filthy/backwards is a racist trope.

Of course I don't think that classycarra is a racist. I assume he was ignorant of the connotation. I'd just had my fill of somebody who seems to delight in constantly picking over the wrongs of others and and felt like pointing out what it was like when somebody turns the tables. It felt like one of those biblical splinter and beam moments.

Take it as a throwaway remark borne out of frustration after reading a day's worth of debate about whether Owen Jones would really prefer a Tory election victory to a Labour one.

[classycarra]

The idea of Arabs being dirty/filthy/backwards is a racist trope.

Tackle from fellaini was absolutely filthy.

I'd just had my fill of somebody who seems to delight in constantly picking over the wrongs of others and and felt like pointing out what it was like when somebody turns the tables.

Good for you!

There's just not enough people out there willing to use their voice to defend people like Hamza Ali Shah when they make statements proving they
hate gay guys, hindus, women and indians.

[TepidT2O]

The idea of Arabs being dirty/filthy/backwards is a racist trope.

Of course I don't think that classycarra is a racist. I assume he was ignorant of the connotation. I'd just had my fill of somebody who seems to delight in constantly picking over the wrongs of others and and felt like pointing out what it was like when somebody turns the tables. It felt like one of those biblical splinter and beam moments.

Take it as a throwaway remark borne out of frustration after reading a day's worth of debate about whether Owen Jones would really prefer a Tory election victory to a Labour one.

Is it? I will take your word for it, not one I’ve known about before though

[Yorkykopite]

Good for you!

There's just not enough people out there willing to use their voice to defend people like Hamza Ali Shah when they make statements proving they
hate gay guys, hindus, women and indians.

Nice goal.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Good for you!

There's just not enough people out there willing to use their voice to defend people like Hamza Ali Shah when they make statements proving they
hate gay guys, hindus, women and indians.

  How long did you spend trawling through my posts looking for that gotcha!?!

Unfortunately that attempt at least misses the target. The adjective filthy is attached to the tackle and not to the player. If I'd described Fellaini himself as filthy then maybe you would have a point.

Keep searching though, I'm sure you'll find something else problematic in my posting history. When it comes to it I'll own it and move on. Suggest you do the same.

[Yorkykopite]

How long did you spend trawling through my posts looking for that gotcha!?!

Unfortunately that attempt at least misses the target. The adjective filthy is attached to the tackle and not to the player. If I'd described Fellaini himself as filthy then maybe you would have a point.

Keep searching though, I'm sure you'll find something else problematic in my posting history. When it comes to it I'll own it and move on. Suggest you do the same.

Nah, he kippered you. Best to admit it.

And by the same token there's absolutely nothing wrong in calling someone a "filthy racist" or "sectarian" or "misogynist" or "homophobe" if he is one. This Hamza bloke, Arab or not, seems to fit the bill perfectly.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

How long did you spend trawling through my posts looking for that gotcha!?!

Unfortunately that attempt at least misses the target. The adjective filthy is attached to the tackle and not to the player. If I'd described Fellaini himself as filthy then maybe you would have a point.

Keep searching though, I'm sure you'll find something else problematic in my posting history. When it comes to it I'll own it and move on. Suggest you do the same.

And to Classy's comments the filthy is attached to the racist, not the ethnicity

[classycarra]

How long did you spend trawling through my posts looking for that gotcha!?!

Unfortunately that attempt at least misses the target. The adjective filthy is attached to the tackle and not to the player. If I'd described Fellaini himself as filthy then maybe you would have a point.

Keep searching though, I'm sure you'll find something else problematic in my posting history. When it comes to it I'll own it and move on. Suggest you do the same.

about three seconds. copy and paste your username, type "filthy". click search

turns out the only time you've used the word filthy on RAWK was relating to Fellaini ( , wasnt it?)

Funny anyway that the person who you've focused your ire on is me, the critic of the bigot, rather than indicating any displeasure with the the bigot.

Imagine being so irked by someone criticising a racist mate of Owen Jones that you go to bat for such a c*nt. Got to say, it feels like it might be telling.

[Elmo!]

And to Classy's comments the filthy is attached to the racist, not the ethnicity

Without wanting to take sides here, that's not really accurate, CC described the person as filthy, Sammy described the action of the person as filthy.

[killer-heels]

Merry Christmas, you filthy animals.

[Red-Soldier]

Without wanting to take sides here, that's not really accurate, CC described the person as filthy, Sammy described the action of the person as filthy.

Exactly.  Quite a bit of difference.

[Red-Soldier]

My washing facilities are currently out of commission, so I'm pretty filthy at the moment.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Without wanting to take sides here, that's not really accurate, CC described the person as filthy, Sammy described the action of the person as filthy.

And CC called the fact that they are a racist as filthy, rather than the fact they are Muslim.

If we want to differentiate with context of the action and the person, why not the context of what is in fact being described as filthy - their racists tendencies or them

[Yorkykopite]

Exactly.  Quite a bit of difference.

The only difference is that one poster described a certain Arab person's actions as "filthy" (a tackle). The other poster described a certain Arab person's opinions as "filthy" (his racism).

[killer-heels]

John Curtice says there is a 99% chance they win the next election. Lolz.

[west_london_red]

Merry Christmas, you filthy animals.

Keep the change, you filthy animal

[killer-heels]

Keep the change, you filthy animal

Convinced he did wish someone Merry Christmas before he pumped him full of lead.

[killer-heels]

Looks like the new deal Starmer wanted from the EU wont happen. No review until 2026 and the EU have told Labour they are happy with the deal. Labour looking to just focus any improvements on veterinary process and EU defence pact.

[kavah]

Gordon Brown, a serious politician, how can we fix the UK:

... 2.6 million children are missing out on meals. No society can or should be at ease when children are being brought up in houses without heating, kitchens without cookers, bedrooms without beds, floors without floor covering, or toilets without toilet roll or soap. And all the evidence is that, unless we act, things will get even worse.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/27/britain-seems-stuck-in-a-doom-loop-of-poverty-i-have-a-plan-to-raise-billions-to-address-that

[killer-heels]

Gordon Brown, a serious politician, how can we fix the UK:

... 2.6 million children are missing out on meals. No society can or should be at ease when children are being brought up in houses without heating, kitchens without cookers, bedrooms without beds, floors without floor covering, or toilets without toilet roll or soap. And all the evidence is that, unless we act, things will get even worse.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/27/britain-seems-stuck-in-a-doom-loop-of-poverty-i-have-a-plan-to-raise-billions-to-address-that

And yet Labour are to keep that bull shit policy of a 2 child benefit cap. No doubt in 10 years time when the economy is growing again, we can put more money into ending child poverty.

[Yorkykopite]

Gordon Brown, a serious politician, how can we fix the UK:

... 2.6 million children are missing out on meals. No society can or should be at ease when children are being brought up in houses without heating, kitchens without cookers, bedrooms without beds, floors without floor covering, or toilets without toilet roll or soap. And all the evidence is that, unless we act, things will get even worse.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/27/britain-seems-stuck-in-a-doom-loop-of-poverty-i-have-a-plan-to-raise-billions-to-address-that

Nice one Kavah. A serious politician indeed. Not a good PM, but in his retirement he has become one of the most creative and inspirational thinkers we have on equality and social justice. A Labour government would find a way of using him.

[Sangria]

Nice one Kavah. A serious politician indeed. Not a good PM, but in his retirement he has become one of the most creative and inspirational thinkers we have on equality and social justice. A Labour government would find a way of using him.

Probably the Labour politician I align most closely with. Ideals and the search for practical ways of getting there. Not ideology for the sake of ideology on either end of the spectrum.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Nice one Kavah. A serious politician indeed. Not a good PM, but in his retirement he has become one of the most creative and inspirational thinkers we have on equality and social justice. A Labour government would find a way of using him.

I actually don't think he was too bad an PM. He messed up on not calling an election right away, and was unfortunate of the timing of the financial crisis.

Compared to literally every prime Minister in my 30 year lifetime other than Tony Blair before Iraq, he is the best PM

[Sangria]

I actually don't think he was too bad an PM. He messed up on not calling an election right away, and was unfortunate of the timing of the financial crisis.

Compared to literally every prime Minister in my 30 year lifetime other than Tony Blair before Iraq, he is the best PM

Depends what you expect a politician to do. Is a politician supposed to run the country, stand for ideals, or win votes?

[PaulF]

Depends what you expect a politician to do. Is a politician supposed to run the country, stand for ideals, or win votes?

You'd hope the first two would lead to the third 😢

[PaulF]

Gordon Brown, a serious politician, how can we fix the UK:

... 2.6 million children are missing out on meals. No society can or should be at ease when children are being brought up in houses without heating, kitchens without cookers, bedrooms without beds, floors without floor covering, or toilets without toilet roll or soap. And all the evidence is that, unless we act, things will get even worse.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/27/britain-seems-stuck-in-a-doom-loop-of-poverty-i-have-a-plan-to-raise-billions-to-address-that

Just on his first suggestion. If we raise the reserve requirement, then don't we take money out of circulation and put up borrowing costs? Not sure that would go down well with mortgage holders. It may be timed just right though as inflation seems to be easing, so interest rates could fall over the next 18months.  Those with big mortgages perhaps shouldn't complain too much if some of their costs are keeping a roof over other people's heads.

[Sangria]

You'd hope the first two would lead to the third 😢

2016 and 2019 showed the last has no connection with the first two.

[TSC]

Depends what you expect a politician to do. Is a politician supposed to run the country, stand for ideals, or win votes?

All 3 of course, although practically the order is reversed. Without gaining power the first 2 are irrelevant

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Take it as a throwaway remark borne out of frustration after reading a day's worth of debate about whether Owen Jones would really prefer a Tory election victory to a Labour one.

Well there is absolutely no debate to be had there. Of course he would. The filthy Tory knobbing shithouse.




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