Author Topic: David Moyes was the manager of Manchester United (Read 3093721 times)

Mumm-Ra · « **Reply #18840 on:** January 6, 2014, 08:26:50 pm »

I almost feel bad for him

I realise this may be a sign that I'm having a nervous breakdown

TheTeflonJohn · « **Reply #18841 on:** January 6, 2014, 08:28:22 pm »

Quote from: Mr_Shane on January 6, 2014, 08:23:39 pm

the solution for Moyes is simple... buy everton~~'s second team~~

That would be better. Then he can have the mancs a comfortable mid table with the odd plucky shot at getting in the Europa.

JohnHobbes · « **Reply #18842 on:** January 6, 2014, 08:28:29 pm »

Quote from: Mr_Shane on January 6, 2014, 08:23:39 pm

the solution for Moyes is simple... buy everton's second team

Right now, would even one of the reserves want to leave Everton for Utd? He might struggle to entice anyone to come join him.

Billy1561 · « **Reply #18843 on:** January 6, 2014, 08:30:18 pm »

Spot on there Alan_F

Gods_Left_Boot · « **Reply #18844 on:** January 6, 2014, 08:30:47 pm »

Quote from: rocco on January 6, 2014, 06:38:59 pm

So Fabio Rio Vidic Evra all out of contract

I really hope Davey panics and ties them up for another 2 years/100k contract. Ferdinand is finished at this level, Vidic can't stay healthy and Evra is a massive liability for them already.

Ziltoid · « **Reply #18845 on:** January 6, 2014, 08:30:54 pm »

Quote from: JohnHobbes on January 6, 2014, 08:28:29 pm

Right now, would even one of the reserves want to leave Everton for Utd? He might struggle to entice anyone to come join him.

Isn't Jellyvic off? Better than Suarez so he can pay a good £80million for him - about on a par with Messi

west_london_red · « **Reply #18846 on:** January 6, 2014, 08:36:33 pm »

So basically their attack will probably all want to leave, their defence is leaving and their midfield is shit. That ferret looking keeper will be the only one left by next season

JohnHobbes · « **Reply #18847 on:** January 6, 2014, 08:37:20 pm »

Quote from: Gods_Left_Boot on January 6, 2014, 08:30:47 pm

I really hope Davey panics and ties them up for another 2 years/100k contract. Ferdinand is finished at this level, Vidic can't stay healthy and Evra is a massive liability for them already.

Would be amusing either way. They either end up wasting lots of resources keeping a few players on far too high a wage for their real worth considering their age and lack of impact (further hindering their chances of recruiting good new players), or they lose half their starting XI in one go and the Glazers will refuse to sanction spending enough to make any replacements worth their while.

Amazing how quiet those previously boisterous Utd fans have all become now as it has finally started to sink in just how bad a situation they are in with no end in sight. Losing lots of games, playing badly as well, a manager who seems stuck with "well we'll see how things go next game and hopefully we'll win" mentality and injuries galore. Schadenfreude comes to mind.

Driver 8 · « **Reply #18848 on:** January 6, 2014, 08:39:21 pm »

Surely he'll be sacked if he doesn't make the top 4, especially with all these home losses. Course in that scenario, they'd have the expense of paying off 5 years of his contract and getting rid of his staff and finding someone else and hiring him and all his staff, with no CL for at least a season, and probably having to replace a few players. And they couldn't trust Ferguson to nominate a replacement again.

Still they could turn it round pretty quickly I imagine with the right appointment. But hopefully Moyes stays!

Gnurglan · « **Reply #18849 on:** January 6, 2014, 08:44:21 pm »

Quote from: Alan_X on January 6, 2014, 05:45:06 pm

Wilf McGuinness - look him up.

So Fergie is coming back...

Ziltoid · « **Reply #18850 on:** January 6, 2014, 08:49:33 pm »

Quote from: Gnurglan on January 6, 2014, 08:44:21 pm

So Fergie is coming back...

......from the hard shoulder

Elzar · « **Reply #18851 on:** January 6, 2014, 09:00:19 pm »

Quote

David Moyes is still the manager of Manchester United

Gnurglan · « **Reply #18852 on:** January 6, 2014, 09:02:22 pm »

Quote from: Alan_X on January 6, 2014, 08:16:23 pm

I don't get that. I hear it all the time but what exactly does it mean? To paraphrase Bill Shankly, it's not his team, it's Manchester United's team. They had 27 years of stability. They knew that Ferguson was planning to retire and by all accounts had pre-selected Moyes as his successor. It would suggest scarcely believable levels of incompetence and mismanagement if they had to rip everything up and start from scratch building a Moyes team (revolution) instead of building on 27 years of success (evolution). Revolution is required when a club needs to drag itself out of a crisis. It shouldn't take a title winning side and create one.

At the start of Moyes reign a few of us pointed out that Moyes was not in fact a good manager, but an average manager who 'succeeded' primarily by lowering expectations to a level that was comfortable and achievable. That 'success' at a club like Moyes' Everton (above mid table, a bit of a cup run, finishing above your local rivals a couple of times,... but not actually winning anything) doesn't upscale to managing one of the biggest clubs in World football.

With half a season gone the evidence so far suggests we were correct in that assessment.

Yes.
I won't write them off just yet. I've made that mistake before and I won't do it again.

What can be said though, is that the approach they took with Moyes was a very strange one. As you say, a couple of successful decades didn't call for a revolution. Common sense suggests they should have made a minor tweak. They should have given the Assistant manager a bigger and bigger role in Fergie's last season(s). A smooth transition. Build on the same foundation. At least start with the same (staff), as much as possible. After nearly 30 years with the same manager, one would have thought they had enough time to think that through. They had/have a (successful) stability that every club dream about. And yet they were eager to throw it out the window. I just hope the outcome will turn out to be as bad as the approach deserves.

Brian Blessed · « **Reply #18853 on:** January 6, 2014, 09:08:22 pm »

Quote from: Alan_X on January 5, 2014, 07:10:25 pm

I thought the Everton on fan was saying 4th was worth more than winning a trophy.

He's Keyser Möyze.

BobPaisley3 · « **Reply #18854 on:** January 6, 2014, 09:11:08 pm »

Twelfth Man · « **Reply #18855 on:** January 6, 2014, 09:27:19 pm »

Quote from: Alan_X on January 6, 2014, 08:16:23 pm

I don't get that. I hear it all the time but what exactly does it mean? To paraphrase Bill Shankly, it's not his team, it's Manchester United's team. They had 27 years of stability. They knew that Ferguson was planning to retire and by all accounts had pre-selected Moyes as his successor. It would suggest scarcely believable levels of incompetence and mismanagement if they had to rip everything up and start from scratch building a Moyes team (revolution) instead of building on 27 years of success (evolution). Revolution is required when a club needs to drag itself out of a crisis. It shouldn't take a title winning side and create one.

At the start of Moyes reign a few of us pointed out that Moyes was not in fact a good manager, but an average manager who 'succeeded' primarily by lowering expectations to a level that was comfortable and achievable. That 'success' at a club like Moyes' Everton (above mid table, a bit of a cup run, finishing above your local rivals a couple of times,... but not actually winning anything) doesn't upscale to managing one of the biggest clubs in World football.

With half a season gone the evidence so far suggests we were correct in that assessment.

Sure it is not revolution, in fact I thought Moyes and Ferguson played a very similar Glasweigen brand of football. Everton under Moyes when they really went for it, were total attack, constant high speed direct pressure. I thought he would be a good fit for them if they wanted to carry on Fergie's style of play. RVP being injured is huge for them, he won them the title last year with winners in tight games. But I also believe Moyes has his own ideas, Fellaini aside he's not really bought anyone in of note. We call for our manager's to be given a chance, the first season will be a transition. Some of the Manc supporters I know, the sensible ones, just wanted CL qualification and a domestic cup this season. If RVP comes back and starts firing it's still possible. I just don't think he is as bad as people make out. I would like to see Mourinho do what he did at Everton with those resources. It is way to early to give him the chop. Fergie was an overpowering figure, never easy to slot right in after him.

Kopenhagen · « **Reply #18856 on:** January 6, 2014, 09:35:24 pm »

I see Daniel Taylor has criticized Moyes at last. It's bit shortsighted of him, however, to write that Mourinho would have been the better option. Mourinho would demand - and need - heavy investment in the squad to win anything with this current bunch, and I don't think United's owners were prepared to give him that.

jillcwhomever · « **Reply #18857 on:** January 6, 2014, 09:42:44 pm »

Quote from: Kopenhagen on January 6, 2014, 09:35:24 pm

I see Daniel Taylor has criticized Moyes at last. It's bit shortsighted of him, however, to write that Mourinho would have been the better option. Mourinho would demand - and need - heavy investment in the squad to win anything with this current bunch, and I don't think United's owners were prepared to give him that.

Typical two faced journalist don't remember them complaining at the time. They where only too happy to see Moyes given a chance back then. Now all of a sudden Mourinho would of been the better answer.

rocco · « **Reply #18858 on:** January 6, 2014, 09:53:16 pm »

Quote from: Kopenhagen on January 6, 2014, 09:35:24 pm

I see Daniel Taylor has criticized Moyes at last. It's bit shortsighted of him, however, to write that Mourinho would have been the better option. Mourinho would demand - and need - heavy investment in the squad to win anything with this current bunch, and I don't think United's owners were prepared to give him that.

They got their Yes man

John C · « **Reply #18859 on:** January 6, 2014, 09:55:59 pm »

Quote from: BobPaisley3 on January 6, 2014, 09:11:08 pm

dylman · « **Reply #18860 on:** January 6, 2014, 09:56:35 pm »

Daniel Taylor normally contents himself with copying out press releases from Old Trafford, if even he is losing faith in the Moyesiah then things might be more rotten there than we think.

Brian Blessed · « **Reply #18861 on:** January 6, 2014, 09:59:22 pm »

Quote from: dylman on January 6, 2014, 09:56:35 pm

Daniel Taylor normally contents himself with copying out press releases from Old Trafford, if even he is losing faith in the Moyesiah then things might be more rotten there than we think.

The good thing is, like the Green and Gold, the Glazers don't give a shit. They'll stick by their man

Gnurglan · « **Reply #18862 on:** January 6, 2014, 10:04:00 pm »

Quote from: Twelfth Man on January 6, 2014, 09:27:19 pm

Sure it is not revolution, in fact I thought Moyes and Ferguson played a very similar Glasweigen brand of football. Everton under Moyes when they really went for it, were total attack, constant high speed direct pressure. I thought he would be a good fit for them if they wanted to carry on Fergie's style of play. RVP being injured is huge for them, he won them the title last year with winners in tight games. But I also believe Moyes has his own ideas, Fellaini aside he's not really bought anyone in of note. We call for our manager's to be given a chance, the first season will be a transition. Some of the Manc supporters I know, the sensible ones, just wanted CL qualification and a domestic cup this season. If RVP comes back and starts firing it's still possible. I just don't think he is as bad as people make out. I would like to see Mourinho do what he did at Everton with those resources. It is way to early to give him the chop. Fergie was an overpowering figure, never easy to slot right in after him.

Moyes is just one part of it. He was always going to have it difficult. It's to be expected that he'd be compared to Fergie. A battle he could never win. But there's more. Apart from the already mentioned issues with the staff.

With Fergie still at the club, you could predict that people would ask for his opinion on things. And he decided to say he was happy with the squad he left. So he helped build things up. Helped create expectations. So it's not really OK for Moyes to build his side, not if you listen to Fergie. And that's it. They listen to Moyes, but they trust Fergie's take on things. So unofficially, he's still in charge. Adding to this, I think it's worth mentioning Rafa and Kenny. They didn't go to every game when a new manager had replaced them. They stayed away and let the new man be the one in charge. I think Fergie's presence at games adds to Moyes' burden.

It os too early to write them off, I need to stress that, but they've gone for the most difficult route possible.

Hopefully, the press won't get down on their knees for them now they have a tough time. Hopefully, they'll dare to treat them the same and ask the questions the situation calls for.

4pool · « **Reply #18863 on:** January 6, 2014, 10:06:35 pm »

I don't understand that RvP won the league for them last season.

They scored 86 goals in total.

The season before that when they lost on goal difference they scored 89.

They scored less with RvP.

With or without RvP last season they would have scored a similar amount of goals. Fergie saw to it one way or the other.

ManchesterBlue · « **Reply #18864 on:** January 6, 2014, 10:09:34 pm »

Quote from: Kopenhagen on January 6, 2014, 09:35:24 pm

I see Daniel Taylor has criticized Moyes at last. It's bit shortsighted of him, however, to write that Mourinho would have been the better option. Mourinho would demand - and need - heavy investment in the squad to win anything with this current bunch, and I don't think United's owners were prepared to give him that.

Exactly. Their plan probably was to coast along in the top 3 (or maybe even 4th in a bad year), rake in the money and redeem the bond debt in 3 years time while spending as little as possible. Unfortunately that fell apart when Ferguson walked and they're now desperately trying to scramble into 4th place but three teams they wrote off as serious contenders have their own designs on that.

Failure to qualify for the CL was described as a key risk in their Bond Prospectus as it would restrict their ability to attract and retain key personnel as well as sponsors and paying fans.

DeLeiva · « **Reply #18865 on:** January 6, 2014, 10:13:26 pm »

Quote from: Mamadou on January 6, 2014, 02:07:01 pm

He'd probably play him at left back.

Gnurglan · « **Reply #18866 on:** January 6, 2014, 10:14:06 pm »

Quote from: Kopenhagen on January 6, 2014, 09:35:24 pm

I see Daniel Taylor has criticized Moyes at last. It's bit shortsighted of him, however, to write that Mourinho would have been the better option. Mourinho would demand - and need - heavy investment in the squad to win anything with this current bunch, and I don't think United's owners were prepared to give him that.

No doubt Mourinho would have been a better option, at least when they decided to go for someone from the outside. He'd be the boss.

El Lobo · « **Reply #18867 on:** January 6, 2014, 10:17:01 pm »

Quote from: DeLeiva on January 6, 2014, 10:13:26 pm

He'd probably play him at left back.

Not really. That's not really a newspaper article. Surely...?

JohnHobbes · « **Reply #18868 on:** January 6, 2014, 10:20:41 pm »

Quote from: 4pool on January 6, 2014, 10:06:35 pm

I don't understand that RvP won the league for them last season.

They scored 86 goals in total.

The season before that when they lost on goal difference they scored 89.

They scored less with RvP.

With or without RvP last season they would have scored a similar amount of goals. Fergie saw to it one way or the other.

For a side that last year struggled to score, he scored a lot of goals and more importantly game winning goals. He also contributed the second most assists at the club in that year behind Rooney. Without RVP then they'd have scored a lot less and been a lot lower in the league. I don't buy that they'd have scored as many without him.

SAF commented at the end of that season that he'd had a huge impact on them winning the title and put him alongside Cantona for the same influence in their league title win.

Swissgaz · « **Reply #18869 on:** January 6, 2014, 10:23:59 pm »

Quote from: El Lobo on January 6, 2014, 10:17:01 pm

Not really. That's not really a newspaper article. Surely...?

It was...

Sunday Life (Belfast Telegraph) but from June 2013 after Barca signed Neymar.

ManchesterBlue · « **Reply #18870 on:** January 6, 2014, 10:36:25 pm »

I think a "Save Dave" march and rally is called for. City fans would be up for this and presumably you guys would be as well.

4pool · « **Reply #18871 on:** January 6, 2014, 10:39:37 pm »

Quote from: JohnHobbes on January 6, 2014, 10:20:41 pm

For a side that last year struggled to score, he scored a lot of goals and more importantly game winning goals. He also contributed the second most assists at the club in that year behind Rooney. Without RVP then they'd have scored a lot less and been a lot lower in the league. I don't buy that they'd have scored as many without him.

SAF commented at the end of that season that he'd had a huge impact on them winning the title and put him alongside Cantona for the same influence in their league title win.

I understand that. But my point is, does anyone serious think they'd have scored 50 goals last season if they didn't get RvP?

Others would have picked up the slack.

With RvP playing it is natural to rely upon him. Just like we send a lot of balls to Gerrard because he's been our reliable player. Without Gerrard the side still is effective just in another way.