Topic: Those chants

[Tonyh8su]

I remember being at a game at Anfield v the Mancs, I "think" it was 2007 and they were singing "Where's your famous Munich song". They don't want to stop the songs, they're desperate for us to go at them again for some sick reason.

1989 and a crowd of supporters

1958 and a load of professional footballers.

Wonder why it's water off a ducks back.

And anyway, I'll go back to my original point, show me the videos/audio clips of entire stadiums of fans (or European Cup winning players) singing Munich songs. They don't exist.

[Kenrick_66]

Where are the decent men and women who are UTD fans who are embarrassed by the chanting and don’t take part in it and want it to stop? There must be some out there.

I remember in 84/85 (pretty much the peak season for Liverpool v Man United mutual loathing) when the Kop would sing about Munich - and not just in games v United. But for every person singing it there was another booing and trying to shout it down. Do any decent United fans (got to be one or two out there) do that now?

[andy07]

Wonder what Kenny thought sitting in the directors box  on the half way line listening to all that shite? 

[Son of Spion]

This needs addressing at higher levels.  This is a cultural issue with United.  Thousands engaging in repeated vile  chants yet nothing done by United the club to sort their act out.  It is almost as though United the club are comfortable with the actions of their fans.  It has been part of the United fan culture for many years to chant about us whenever and whoever they play.

To be honest, I don't think United care at all. My thinking there is based on two things. One being that they never do anything of any real note to combat it. Their inaction speaks volumes.

Secondly, and I can understand this to an extent, they suffered endless taunting over Munich, and still regularly do so from the likes of their neighbours and Leeds to name just two. I've not heard anything about Munich at Anfield since the 1980s other than the odd isolated individual dickhead. Our fans learned a harsh lesson after Heysel then Hillsborough, and we grew up quite rapidly.

I have a feeling that plenty at Old Trafford feel that what goes around, comes around. That's quite a human reaction too. I understand it, even if it's clear that a multitude of wrongs do not make one right. I know it's an underlying feeling within their fanbase. Rob on here says his United supporting wife says the same. So, it wouldn't surprise me if there's a similar feeling within their club that sees them dragging their feet over the issue.

If true, it does them no favours, though. They felt they held the moral high ground when they were getting taunted all over the country over Munich. They said there's no way they'd be so low if the situation was reversed. Of course, they've proved to be even worse now it is. They, of all people. Of all clubs, should know better.

Maybe their club itself needs to be sanctioned if they refuse to get their house in order. They are revenue mad, so maybe a game or two behind closed doors might finally focus their minds a bit more. As things stand, the flagship PL game in any season is a putrid, poisonous, festering mess which tarnishes the league and is an afront to human decency. It's on them too. It's not a mutual problem. It's a Manchester United problem.

[jillcwhomever]

 
I just had a look at the FSA website,couldn't find anything about the chants,same on the Kick it out site.Maybe i didn't look in the right bits.Or it's not part of their agenda?

They have definitely mentioned it before on their twitter account and condemned it in the past.

[Speedy Molby]

Jim Ratcliffe could have a problem in a few weeks. When the Hillsborough chants happen again, he’ll have to condemn them, if asked. Tragedy chants are now central to United fans identity, stopping them will be seen as losing to us.  Ratcliffe has already talked about ‘enemies’ and ‘hating all of them’. He’s clearly playing to the lowest common denominator, But he can’t publicly support tragedy chanting. Looks like a divide between club and fans ahead.

[Red_Mist]

Where are the decent men and women who are UTD fans who are embarrassed by the chanting and don’t take part in it and want it to stop? There must be some out there.

The two decent Man United fans I know both gave it up years ago and go to FCUM now. But there must be some. They always reckoned the out of towners were the worst for the Hillsborough stuff, especially the cockney reds. Maybe, being a cup game, the ground had a lot more…not day trippers as such, but non-regulars from around the country and the Royston Vaseys that surround Manchester trying too hard to prove their Scouse-hating credentials?  Dunno. Just hearing championship whoppery such as ‘your support is f-kin shit’ sounded odd for one. None of this excuses it. Just trying to work out why it was worse than ever.

[eddiedingle]

Catweazel must address this if he is seeking tax payers money for a new stadium the scruff

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Given you've got United players singing all this shite on the pitch themselves, Manchester United are unlikely to do anything about it.

Be nice if our end was completely empty when we play them next. No way the fuckers would be able to hide that or pretend something wasn't going on.

But no way you'll get people not travelling.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

We don't carry bottles,
We don't carry lead

[alonsoisared]

I remember being at a game at Anfield v the Mancs, I "think" it was 2007 and they were singing "Where's your famous Munich song". They don't want to stop the songs, they're desperate for us to go at them again for some sick reason.

They sing that because 99% of them have absolutely no connection to the Munich disaster at all. It's nothing to them. A lot of people singing about Heysel and Hillsborough wouldn't have been born when that happened never mind Munich. Singing about Munich wouldn't affect them in the slightest.

From what I'm reading on twitter it's the false equivalence that makes it justifiable in their eyes. Look at this one bloke doing an airplane gesture, look at this banner in your end nearly 40 years ago, you're just as bad, it's part of the fixture etc. Some of them genuinely don't see the difference in a couple of idiots retaliating by mocking something that has little to no meaning to them, compared to literally tens of thousands of them chanting directly at survivors and families telling them it was all their fault. They do love a false equivalence though. Who remembers that Munich 58 meets 9/11 banner- "united in grief"? Fucking idiots.

All tragedy chanting is wrong. It's a stain on us that Munich chanting happened for so long. But make no mistake, the main culprits right now are them and they've got more and more ballsy with it because nobody ever speaks out and when they do they put our handful of idiots on the same level as practically their whole ground.

Ten Hag doing a Klopp esque interview isn't a bad idea but hampered somewhat by the fact that he doesn't carry much weight and will probably be gone with a year. If they wanted to stop it they'd get Fergie off the team bus or out of the dressing room for 10 minutes to do something useful. They'd listen to him.

Enough is enough at this stage. Stop letting them in to Anfield. When the FA asks why we don't even need zoomed in clips from YouTube. Just play the sky sports audio of any match we've played against them in the last 10 years and it's all there, clear as day.

The arrests so far are encouraging though. I totally get the response of "if they're arresting everyone who chanted it would be most of the ground", but it does only take a few to spook the rest into behaving themselves next time. It's fun and games when they know nothing will come of it but when people start getting banged up and losing their livelihoods over it then you'd think it would be a wake up call.

[alonsoisared]

The two decent Man United fans I know both gave it up years ago and go to FCUM now. But there must be some. They always reckoned the out of towners were the worst for the Hillsborough stuff, especially the cockney reds. Maybe, being a cup game, the ground had a lot more…not day trippers as such, but non-regulars from around the country and the Royston Vaseys that surround Manchester trying too hard to prove their Scouse-hating credentials?  Dunno. Just hearing championship whoppery such as ‘your support is f-kin shit’ sounded odd for one. None of this excuses it. Just trying to work out why it was worse than ever.

there might be something in that but their away end is hideous for it. You'd imagine that like us there is a bigger concentration of locals in their away following than their home one

[Son of Spion]

...The arrests so far are encouraging though. I totally get the response of "if they're arresting everyone who chanted it would be most of the ground", but it does only take a few to spook the rest into behaving themselves next time. It's fun and games when they know nothing will come of it but when people start getting banged up and losing their livelihoods over it then you'd think it would be a wake up call.

Like an awful lot of us on here, I remember when open racism was commonplace at football grounds all over this country. People also wondered then how that could be tackled when it was large segments of crowds indulging in it. It can look like a hopeless task when confronted by such numbers. But looking back now, that issue was brought under control, not by arresting 30,000 per game, but by firstly putting it out into fan consciousness that it was not only wrong and unwelcome, but it would be prosecuted too.

There was never any need to arrest three quarters of a ground. All that happened was some culprits were identified and exposed. They were then dealt with. Examples made, and personal responsibility held to account. Some people lost jobs because of their actions. Thing is, in a crowd too many people can feel safe enough to act like a savage, but that changes if they fear being held to account personally.

We live in a time where we have state of the art CCTV systems in our grounds. Most games are recorded for TV too. Games are heavily stewarded. Clubs know who is sitting in any given seat. It really isn't difficult to identify individual offenders and hold them to account personally then make it publicly known that they've been held to account. Let other fans see that these morons have lost their jobs because they taunted bereaved people over a human tragedy. It will soon see other morons feeling insecure and maybe learning some self control and humanity. We'll never eradicate it 100%, just as racism will never be eradicated 100%. There will always be individual imbeciles who can't help themselves, but these idiots will be more isolated and much more likely to be pointed out, identified and dealt with.

Once the will to address racism in grounds was there, progress was made. The exact same approach can work on this issue too. Like with any group of bullies. If you deck the mouthy one at the front, the rest often crumble. You don't have to take on the entire mob. Just make the most noticable culprits personally responsible. Take them out, and the rest feel less sure about themselves and their actions.

[alonsoisared]

Like an awful lot of us on here, I remember when open racism was commonplace at football grounds all over this country. People also wondered then how that could be tackled when it was large segments of crowds indulging in it. It can look like a hopeless task when confronted by such numbers. But looking back now, that issue was brought under control, not by arresting 30,000 per game, but by firstly putting it out into fan consciousness that it was not only wrong and unwelcome, but it would be prosecuted too.

There was never any need to arrest three quarters of a ground. All that happened was some culprits were identified and exposed. They were then dealt with. Examples made, and personal responsibility held to account. Some people lost jobs because of their actions. Thing is, in a crowd too many people can feel safe enough to act like a savage, but that changes if they fear being held to account personally.

We live in a time where we have state of the art CCTV systems in our grounds. Most games are recorded for TV too. Games are heavily stewarded. Clubs know who is sitting in any given seat. It really isn't difficult to identify individual offenders and hold them to account personally then make it publicly known that they've been held to account. Let other fans see that these morons have lost their jobs because they taunted bereaved people over a human tragedy. It will soon see other morons feeling insecure and maybe learning some self control and humanity. We'll never eradicate it 100%, just as racism will never be eradicated 100%. There will always be individual imbeciles who can't help themselves, but these idiots will be more isolated and much more likely to be pointed out, identified and dealt with.

Once the will to address racism in grounds was there, progress was made. The exact same approach can work on this issue too. Like with any group of bullies. If you deck the mouthy one at the front, the rest often crumble. You don't have to take on the entire mob. Just make the most noticable culprits personally responsible. Take them out, and the rest feel less sure about themselves and their actions.

spot on 👍

[Fromola]

They sing that because 99% of them have absolutely no connection to the Munich disaster at all. It's nothing to them. A lot of people singing about Heysel and Hillsborough wouldn't have been born when that happened never mind Munich. Singing about Munich wouldn't affect them in the slightest.

From what I'm reading on twitter it's the false equivalence that makes it justifiable in their eyes. Look at this one bloke doing an airplane gesture, look at this banner in your end nearly 40 years ago, you're just as bad, it's part of the fixture etc. Some of them genuinely don't see the difference in a couple of idiots retaliating by mocking something that has little to no meaning to them, compared to literally tens of thousands of them chanting directly at survivors and families telling them it was all their fault. They do love a false equivalence though. Who remembers that Munich 58 meets 9/11 banner- "united in grief"? Fucking idiots.

All tragedy chanting is wrong. It's a stain on us that Munich chanting happened for so long. But make no mistake, the main culprits right now are them and they've got more and more ballsy with it because nobody ever speaks out and when they do they put our handful of idiots on the same level as practically their whole ground.

Ten Hag doing a Klopp esque interview isn't a bad idea but hampered somewhat by the fact that he doesn't carry much weight and will probably be gone with a year. If they wanted to stop it they'd get Fergie off the team bus or out of the dressing room for 10 minutes to do something useful. They'd listen to him.

Enough is enough at this stage. Stop letting them in to Anfield. When the FA asks why we don't even need zoomed in clips from YouTube. Just play the sky sports audio of any match we've played against them in the last 10 years and it's all there, clear as day.

The arrests so far are encouraging though. I totally get the response of "if they're arresting everyone who chanted it would be most of the ground", but it does only take a few to spook the rest into behaving themselves next time. It's fun and games when they know nothing will come of it but when people start getting banged up and losing their livelihoods over it then you'd think it would be a wake up call.

That's just to throw mud at us for the media's benefit/other fans. They're desperate for the reaction from us. There's nothing they'd have liked more than Munich chants on Sunday and it would have got the biggest cheer of the afternoon from their end. A big part of it - aside from the enjoyment they get about singing their shit - is about goading us into a reaction and if they get a reaction then to post it all online and get their media mates to run it, look what the nasty Scousers did. The best thing you can do (at the ground at least) is ignore them.

More lies as well from them/other fans online is this myth that "But Liverpool fans sing Lizzie's in a  box".

[WhereAngelsPlay]

They wouldn't need to arrest 55,000 a game, they could use the same system that's used for speeding.

That way they could just post 55,000 banning orders and fines, also set up a nice publicly accessible database.

It'd stop immediately.

[Paul JH]

If anyone has any thought as to why this kind of thing still goes on, look at the report about it on Sky. It was a disgrace.

They 'reported' it, tragedy chanting, but said '8 arrests were made, 4 Man Utd, 4 Liverpool, and also some fans were arrested for pyrotechnics' (Liverpool fans).

They not only do their best to 'level it out' in the reporting of it, but barely highlighted the tragedy stuff, more a slant of that there was an even number of arrests per club.

Just fuck off.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Players should walk off the pitch when it happens and too hell with any repercussions. Some things are more important than 3 points.

[Koplass]

aside from the enjoyment they get about singing their shit - is about goading us into a reaction and if they get a reaction then to post it all online and get their media mates to run it, look what the nasty Scousers did.

That's part of it too, they know they're the establishment club, and we are very much not, so they can get away with it. Our behaviour will always be judged 10x more harshly than theirs.

So 10,000 Mancs singing about Hillsborough will be judged as being equivalent to 1 Scouser making an aeroplane gesture in the eyes of the media and other supporters up and down the country. You can see the ignorant comments from neutrals saying both sides do it - because they either genuinely don't know and have bought into the media narrative or because they want to believe Scousers are classless scumbags.

Can you imagine the headlines if when we next played each other, half of Anfield was singing about Munich? I mean, it's almost laughable to imagine it, it would be front page news for weeks...

[WhereAngelsPlay]

If anyone has any thought as to why this kind of thing still goes on, look at the report about it on Sky. It was a disgrace.

They 'reported' it, tragedy chanting, but said '8 arrests were made, 4 Man Utd, 4 Liverpool, and also some fans were arrested for pyrotechnics' (Liverpool fans).

They not only do their best to 'level it out' in the reporting of it, but barely highlighted the tragedy stuff, more a slant of that there was an even number of arrests per club.

Just fuck off.

1 was arrested for suspected pyro (smoke bomb)

&

3 for party favours (no harm to anybody)

[Sterome77]

Let's try a little thought experiment.  Let's say the situation was reversed.  Suppose Sunday's game had been at Anfield. Liverpool had won 4-3 with virtually the last kick of extra time and, at various points of the match, the Kop had been singing songs mocking the dead of the Manchester Arena bombing which came over loud and clear on TV.  How would we have been feeling on Sunday night?

I can only speak for myself of course, but any pleasure I'd have felt at the result would have been dwarfed by feelings of anger, disgust and shame at the behaviour of our supporters.  I think I'd have been e mailing an apology to the Manchester Evening News, knowing that the apology wouldn't be accepted, that it probably wouldn't even be printed or displayed, but feeling compelled for my own self respect to do it anyway.  I'd have also been calling on our club to identify as many of the culprits as possible and make sure they don't see the inside of Anfield again.

The most depressing thing about the tragedy chanting on Sunday wasn't so much the chanting itself, we've all heard those chants before, but the complete shoulder shrugging indifference of practically everyone connected with Man Utd.  With the sole exception of Jim White in the Telegraph, I've seen nothing from any Man Utd journalist, nothing from any of their supporter groups, nothing from any of their ex-player pundits or Youtubers.  Nothing at all, except the usual, tedious whataboutery on social media.

And today we have Jim Ratcliff calling us "enemies" and saying he doesn't care who wins the Premier League between Liverpool, City and Arsenal because he "hates all three".  That's where they are now.  This is their new leader.  Their saviour. A man so lacking in any semblance of leadership or moral courage that he feels the need to curry favour with the knuckle draggers in the stands by tipping them the wink that they have boardroom permission to carry on 'hating'.

The fact is that singing about people being crushed to death at football matches is now an accepted part of Man Utd fan culture.  Thousands of their fans chant that filth, and those that don't actually chant it themselves are apparently perfectly okay with it being chanted.  To anyone who tells me that's unfair I'd just say fine.  Show me the evidence to the contrary then.  I haven't seen any.

It's actually sad to see what's happened to Man Utd over the past couple of decades or so.  What was once a great football club and a great British sporting institution has now degenerated into a sick parody, with a culture that's utterly rancid from the top down.

The media keep calling Man Utd v Liverpool the greatest rivalry in football.  There's no rivalry there at all as far as I'm concerned, any more than there was a 'rivalry' between loyalists and republicans in Northern Ireland.  Rivalry requires at least a measure of respect, however grudging.  Blind hate is not rivalry.  In fact, it's virtually the opposite.  And blind hate is virtually all they have to offer now.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Par for the course for him, twat pollutes everything he touches.

[jonnypb]

The guy who was filmed doing Hillsborough gestures has been charged and released on bail.

Police have charged Michael Bernard Avery, 44, with a public order offence after a video was shared online during Manchester United's 4-3 win over Liverpool on Sunday.

Following an investigation by Greater Manchester Police's Specialist Operational football investigation team, the individual has now been named and charged with Section 4a of the Public Order Act 1986. He has since been bailed.

[Son of Spion]

The guy who was filmed doing Hillsborough gestures has been charged and released on bail.

Good. Hopefully he loses his job too, if he has one. I make no apologies for calling him utter scum.

[CHOPPER]

The guy who was filmed doing Hillsborough gestures has been charged and released on bail.

Be a terrible thing if they inadvertently released the details of where he lives and I’d assume, where he used to work!

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Be a terrible thing if they inadvertently released the details of where he lives and I’d assume, where he used to work!

They usually do.

[Jwils21]

This needs addressing at higher levels.  This is a cultural issue with United.

The “cut through” these days is to get Che Neville and the Sky Sports banter brigade to call it out, along with the podcasters/youtubers/twitterers who influence a lot of opinion. I can’t stand them personally, but they have the audience and will get the attention.

[rob1966]

The “cut through” these days is to get Che Neville and the Sky Sports banter brigade to call it out, along with the podcasters/youtubers/twitterers who influence a lot of opinion. I can’t stand them personally, but they have the audience and will get the attention.

Too busy inciting riots and stoking hatred between the clubs, the fucking gobshite

[mattyyt]

Threaten Sky Sports’ profits and Neville’s pockets and you’ll soon see him come out in full force against it. The super league stuff proved all that.

[Speedy Molby]

Let's try a little thought experiment.  Let's say the situation was reversed.  Suppose Sunday's game had been at Anfield. Liverpool had won 4-3 with virtually the last kick of extra time and, at various points of the match, the Kop had been singing songs mocking the dead of the Manchester Arena bombing which came over loud and clear on TV.  How would we have been feeling on Sunday night?

I can only speak for myself of course, but any pleasure I'd have felt at the result would have been dwarfed by feelings of anger, disgust and shame at the behaviour of our supporters.  I think I'd have been e mailing an apology to the Manchester Evening News, knowing that the apology wouldn't be accepted, that it probably wouldn't even be printed or displayed, but feeling compelled for my own self respect to do it anyway.  I'd have also been calling on our club to identify as many of the culprits as possible and make sure they don't see the inside of Anfield again.

The most depressing thing about the tragedy chanting on Sunday wasn't so much the chanting itself, we've all heard those chants before, but the complete shoulder shrugging indifference of practically everyone connected with Man Utd.  With the sole exception of Jim White in the Telegraph, I've seen nothing from any Man Utd journalist, nothing from any of their supporter groups, nothing from any of their ex-player pundits or Youtubers.  Nothing at all, except the usual, tedious whataboutery on social media.Great post.

And today we have Jim Ratcliff calling us "enemies" and saying he doesn't care who wins the Premier League between Liverpool, City and Arsenal because he "hates all three".  That's where they are now.  This is their new leader.  Their saviour. A man so lacking in any semblance of leadership or moral courage that he feels the need to curry favour with the knuckle draggers in the stands by tipping them the wink that they have boardroom permission to carry on 'hating'.

The fact is that singing about people being crushed to death at football matches is now an accepted part of Man Utd fan culture.  Thousands of their fans chant that filth, and those that don't actually chant it themselves are apparently perfectly okay with it being chanted.  To anyone who tells me that's unfair I'd just say fine.  Show me the evidence to the contrary then.  I haven't seen any.

It's actually sad to see what's happened to Man Utd over the past couple of decades or so.  What was once a great football club and a great British sporting institution has now degenerated into a sick parody, with a culture that's utterly rancid from the top down.

The media keep calling Man Utd v Liverpool the greatest rivalry in football.  There's no rivalry there at all as far as I'm concerned, any more than there was a 'rivalry' between loyalists and republicans in Northern Ireland.  Rivalry requires at least a measure of respect, however grudging.  Blind hate is not rivalry.  In fact, it's virtually the opposite.  And blind hate is virtually all they have to offer now.

Great post.

[thejbs]

Hate to say it, but if it was the opposite way around and thousands of ours had been chanting, there would still be liverpool fans saying ‘whatabout that Utd fan that was gesturing about x’ rather than owning their own fans behaviour.

Unless everyone can get beyond tribalism and into humanism, this will persist.

[ianburns252]

The fact is though that it wasn't and we have shown we can eradicate the problem from 99.9999% of our fanbase.

Yes discourse has gotten messed up and people struggle more to see past tribalism - and maybe without Hillsborough we would be less progressive as a fan base - but hypotheticals don't matter in this case - facts do and a minimum of a significant majority (40% plus) and most likely a majority in fact were singing unacceptable songs.

Week in week out fans across the country sing unacceptable songs (and not just with us but with the likes of Bradley Lowry) and the Tories rub their hands together as they watch the country tear itself apart when we should be finding points of agreement and similarity to work together to get those evil people out of power

[Paul JH]

Hate to say it, but if it was the opposite way around and thousands of ours had been chanting, there would still be liverpool fans saying ‘whatabout that Utd fan that was gesturing about x’ rather than owning their own fans behaviour.

Unless everyone can get beyond tribalism and into humanism, this will persist.

Mate, if you're posting that bollocks I think you miss the point of the entire thread and this is another basically 'but whatabout...'. It really doesn't matter if 'it was the other way around' does it? FFS ... this is precisely the shite they trot out to defend it, 'well if it was them' or 'you all sing Munich songs' etc.

Amazed you can make a blanket statement that if it was us, we'd all just go 'well ...' and try and defend it. I wouldn't, 99% of our fans wouldn't either.

[Barneylfc∗]

Hate to say it, but if it was the opposite way around and thousands of ours had been chanting, there would still be liverpool fans saying ‘whatabout that Utd fan that was gesturing about x’ rather than owning their own fans behaviour.

Unless everyone can get beyond tribalism and into humanism, this will persist.

I don't know a single person that isn't appalled at any c*nt making Munich gestures or chanting about it. Literally every Liverpool fan I know would like them banned for life.

[Fromola]

I don't know a single person that isn't appalled at any c*nt making Munich gestures or chanting about it. Literally every Liverpool fan I know would like them banned for life.

That's the thing, nobody is defending them or their right to do. They aren't wanted and should be dealt with.

United fans use it as deflection because the vile chants are part of their culture and enjoyment of going to the match. They know that we can't police the actions of thousands of people because it only takes the action of one idiot, for one second and then there's their justification/whataboutery for chanting what they do.

[ScottScott]

Hate to say it, but if it was the opposite way around and thousands of ours had been chanting, there would still be liverpool fans saying ‘whatabout that Utd fan that was gesturing about x’ rather than owning their own fans behaviour.

Unless everyone can get beyond tribalism and into humanism, this will persist.

Fuck off with this shite will ya

You've got proof over the past 30+ years that we've self policed and eradicated it from the fans ourselves. We've also done the same with the Chelsea song that used to get loud airings and has now all but gone from our fans after the club asked us to stop

Bellend

[Black Bull Nova]

What is worse is that the Manc bloke looks as if his body at least, has reached adulthood. You almost expect dickhead teenagers to get involved in this sort of stuff, when it's the fully grown it is far worse. They are psychologically disturbed.

[Andy82lfc]

Hate to say it, but if it was the opposite way around and thousands of ours had been chanting, there would still be liverpool fans saying ‘whatabout that Utd fan that was gesturing about x’ rather than owning their own fans behaviour.

Unless everyone can get beyond tribalism and into humanism, this will persist.

Mate, you generally always post really well, not sure if you are pissed or you are just missing the point here.

Thousands of our fans did used to chant. We never turned around and said 'whatabout this', instead that got chased out of Anfield years ago, that's exactly what the opposite way around looks like.

There will always, always be the odd dickhead who gets rightfully peltered. Just like that dickhead doing monkey gestures the other year, there will always be knuckle dragging gobshites like that.

Old Trafford on the other hand does still have tens of thousands still chanting, still not getting told to stop. This is not two sided in any way shape or form.

We have got past tribalism, we don't chant in our thousands, or hundreds or even tens as far as my experience goes. As someone else hammered the point home, if we were singing in our thousands about the horrific MEN terrorist attack and what happened to all of those poor people. Can you even fucking imagine the response to that?? Yet radio fucking silence because it has become 'accepted' for Hillsborough.

This is not a two way street and our club needs to get it's head right out of its fucking arse on this one, instead of standing by and watching all of the survivors go through this abhorrent shit every time it gets aired loud and clear.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Spoiler

Mate, you generally always post really well, not sure if you are pissed or you/we are just completely missing the point here.

Thousands of our fans did used to chant. We never turned around and said 'whatabout this', instead that got chased out of Anfield years ago, that's exactly what the opposite way around looks like.

There will always, always be the odd dickhead who gets rightfully peltered. Just like that dickhead doing monkey gestures the other year, there will always be knuckle dragging gobshites like that.

Old Trafford on the other hand does still have tens of thousands still chanting, still not getting told to stop. This is not two sided in any way shape or form.

We have got past tribalism, we don't chant in our thousands, or hundreds or even tens as far as my experience goes. As someone else hammered the point home, if we were singing in our thousands about the horrific MEN terrorist attack and what happened to all of those poor people. Can you even fucking imagine the response to that?? Yet radio fucking silence because it has become 'accepted' for Hillsborough.

This is not a two way street and

[close]

our club needs to get it's head right out of its fucking arse on this one, instead of standing by and watching all of the survivors go through this abhorrent shit every time it gets aired loud and clear.

[boots]

People need to stop with the 'hate'. How on earth can one allow themselves to hate? You will carry that burden of hate around within yourself and it will infect you and infest you. It is a game of football, yes I know Bill said otherwise, but it was a tongue in cheek comment. Life is more important. All life. No exception.

Hate is powerful, it drives people to be their worst. Be your best instead, even if it isnt as good as it could be. Strive to be better than a hateful person.

Can we also please stop with the insults. If you have an argument, make it. If not, then simply calling someone a bellend or other invalidates you and your comment. It is unnecessary. I am leaving myself open to an insult, I know. But this is a serious matter. The discussion should reflect that. Call me a bellend in The Pub. I'll probably agree with you. But not here. Respect Hillsborough, Munich and all other fans/players who lost their lives unnecessarily.

Edit: pretend hate for the fun of it is fine. I pretend hate all our competitors, but the hate is for fun it isnt real. If your hate is real...