Author Topic: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on  (Read 8817 times)

Offline JackBauer

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #40 on: October 7, 2008, 01:44:25 pm »
The day he was found innocent is one of the best moments ever, some black people finally beat the police. Besides, rich white people have been buying freedom for years. People were only arsed because it was a black man doing it. That's what it came down to at the end of the day. And by the evidence presented in the case and that the LAPD were proven to be corrupt and framing him he was rightly found innocent in that trial. That's the whole point of a fair trial, the prosecutor needs to actually prove the person did it and they failed in spectacular fashion.

I'm going to quote your whole post, so you can't accuse me of taking anything out of context, but I do have several points to make in response.

1. If, generally, you actually believe that he was innocent and framed, then I am sorry but you cannot have drawn that conclusion from a familiarity with the events in question or with the evidence.

2. He was not found innocent. The verdict of "not guilty" in the Anglo-American legal systems (other than Scotland, IIRC) does not mean that the defendant has been shown to be innocent, merely that the prosecution has failed to meet its burden of proving the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

3. Similarly, the LAPD were not "proven" to be corrupt and were not "proven" to have framed him. That idiotic and frankly grossly implausible theory is merely what the jury elected to believe.

4. Even if the LAPD had behaved questionably in dealing with African-American suspects in the past, and even if Mark Fuhrman had used the "N" word on previous occasions, it's a non-sequitur to draw the conclusion that Simpson did not commit these murders.

5. He was not "rightly" found innocent, not just for the (admittedly pedantic) reason in 2 above, but because the evidence was so overwhelmingly in favour of a verdict of guilt.

6. I agree with your last sentence there. The prosecution was botched, and made several catastrophic blunders.

The Vincent Bugliosi book on the case is very good, and well worth a read.
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Offline Football CRAZY

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #41 on: October 7, 2008, 03:32:50 pm »
If a "victory for black people" is a black guy stabbing two white people to death and getting away with it then I feel bad for black people.
It's not often that I agree with American Pool Fan, but I share his sentiments with regards to this issue. Any semblance of a moral victory would have been cancelled out by the ill-will towards the black community from people who felt that OJ cheated justice.

There has been thousands of times where the same has happened in reverse and the white person will have been found not guity or not charged at all.

Can you honestly not see why OJ being found not guity would provide a huge satisfaction for any black person in the world who has suffered for no reason at the hands of their local police force? The fact there was plenty of evidence linking him with it (lots of it planted, though)... made it better because it made the LAPD look like complete fools for failing.

Stop looking at it from the "HEY BUT HE KILLED 2 PEOPLE OMG" moral outrage stance that 99% of whites will have, and look at it from the perspective of others. It was a complicated case that went beyond if this man went to prison or not. Nobody gave a shite about his freedom being taken away from him. it was what the case represented to the people.
« Last Edit: October 7, 2008, 03:35:15 pm by Football CRAZY »

Offline Football CRAZY

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #42 on: October 7, 2008, 03:41:58 pm »

The Vincent Bugliosi book on the case is very good, and well worth a read.

Yeah mate, but if that is a biased book leaning towards the he should have been found guilty side I wouldn't like it. me and my Dad when he was still alive followed the story at the time on Sky. And I've read a couple books and seen loads of documentaries on it. My opinion is that OJ at least knew the person who did it, or had something to do with it. But going by the evidence presented by both sides in the case then the verdict was right, the Jury had no choice but to go with not guity going by the Trial. Cochran was a clever man and he won fair and square in my eyes. It's the fact of what it meant symbolically to people, and also to be honest as a man who hates police myself, that I am glad he got off. Simpson himself, I havent even seen an OJ film so im not a fan of his or anything.

Offline ALPH1217

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #43 on: October 7, 2008, 04:00:12 pm »
Simpson murdered two people and everyone knows it. I was mildly surprised at how quick the predominantly black jury reached their verdict though. Apparently he's been using the age old crutch of 'racism' regarding the verdict the other day. In my eyes he's a punk and nothing more. A well known cocaine abuser and wife beater who seemingly had all of America fooled.

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #44 on: October 7, 2008, 04:07:13 pm »
Yeah mate, but if that is a biased book leaning towards the he should have been found guilty side I wouldn't like it. me and my Dad when he was still alive followed the story at the time on Sky. And I've read a couple books and seen loads of documentaries on it. My opinion is that OJ at least knew the person who did it, or had something to do with it. But going by the evidence presented by both sides in the case then the verdict was right, the Jury had no choice but to go with not guity going by the Trial. Cochran was a clever man and he won fair and square in my eyes. It's the fact of what it meant symbolically to people, and also to be honest as a man who hates police myself, that I am glad he got off. Simpson himself, I havent even seen an OJ film so im not a fan of his or anything.
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Offline JackBauer

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #45 on: October 7, 2008, 04:15:26 pm »
Can you honestly not see why OJ being found not guity would provide a huge satisfaction for any black person in the world who has suffered for no reason at the hands of their local police force? The fact there was plenty of evidence linking him with it (lots of it planted, though)... made it better because it made the LAPD look like complete fools for failing.

Please stop saying that the evidence was planted, because that is simply not true.

Stop looking at it from the "HEY BUT HE KILLED 2 PEOPLE OMG" moral outrage stance that 99% of whites will have, and look at it from the perspective of others. It was a complicated case that went beyond if this man went to prison or not. Nobody gave a shite about his freedom being taken away from him. it was what the case represented to the people.

Perspective of what others, might I ask? This was a murder case. He killed two people, and mystifyingly got away with it.
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Offline Finn Solomon

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #46 on: October 7, 2008, 04:24:34 pm »
Can you honestly not see why OJ being found not guity would provide a huge satisfaction for any black person in the world who has suffered for no reason at the hands of their local police force?

Of course I can. It's a simple case of them vs us, where people are willing to overlook inconsistencies in favour of supporting one of their own.

The fact there was plenty of evidence linking him with it (lots of it planted, though)... made it better because it made the LAPD look like complete fools for failing.

The LAPD were criminally incompetent, but even you seem to acknowledge that there was still plenty of evidence that linked him to the crime, even assuming that most of it was planted.

Quote
Stop looking at it from the "HEY BUT HE KILLED 2 PEOPLE OMG" moral outrage stance that 99% of whites will have, and look at it from the perspective of others. It was a complicated case that went beyond if this man went to prison or not. Nobody gave a shite about his freedom being taken away from him. it was what the case represented to the people.

I have. I'm neither black nor white. I'm merely commenting on what price such a moral victory could cost in terms of backlash against the black community. It's not hard to see that certain non-blacks would look on this case as a travesty of injustice and consequently be more prone to prejudice in future such cases.
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Offline JackBauer

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #47 on: October 7, 2008, 04:26:43 pm »
to be honest as a man who hates police myself, that I am glad he got off.

Well, that explains a lot.

The logical extension of that position is that anyone commits a crime deserves to get away with it. Would you agree with that?
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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #48 on: October 7, 2008, 04:53:57 pm »
He's been sentenced to a lifetime of appearing in David Zucker movies.
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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #49 on: October 7, 2008, 06:07:27 pm »
You just had to be in the States amongst the black community to understand the reaction to that decision. It's easy to put the case into context when viewing it as a soap opera on TV.

But as the Football Crazy One says earlier (before he went off the bend), it was a huge FU to perceived historical injustice within the system. You can't argue against that with case facts and sob stories about poor Ron Goldman. There was anger, a lot of it, beneath the surface, and the OJ case, much like the causes beneath LA riots, lifted the lid off the social problems that plague Amerikerr.


Offline jammy tart

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #50 on: October 7, 2008, 06:07:48 pm »
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/954700.stm

Wednesday, 4 October, 2000

New clues in OJ Simpson murder mystery

By Malcolm Brinkworth, producer of a BBC programme which sheds new light on the case of former American football star OJ Simpson.

Despite his repeated protestations of innocence, in the eyes of many OJ Simpson was and remains a guilty man. OJ - The Untold Story reveals that clues that some believe pointed away from Simpson as the killer were dismissed or ignored and highlights two other leads which could shed new light on the case.

Dr Henry Lee
Dr Lee: Crime scene was "contaminated"
Our film shows that the court only heard part of the real picture - that crucial evidence was tampered with and destroyed, the police so contaminated the crime scene that the evidence was unsafe and that six months before her murder, someone was offered money to kill Nicole.

Dr Henry Lee, one of the world's most respected forensic scientists, states in his interview for the programme that the crime scene was "out of control", was contaminated and that the police had destroyed so much at the murder scene that it was impossible to reconstruct what happened that night.

Dr Lee also reveals that the police failed to take crucial blood samples from Nicole's back which might have helped solve the case.

Nicole Simpson
Who did kill Nicole Simpson?
We also commissioned two independent British scenes of crime experts to review and analyse the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) procedures at the crime scenes. Their testimony reveals a host of errors which caused them to have no faith in the integrity of the crime scenes.

It is their view that the evidence was seriously compromised and would have been rejected by the UK's Crown Prosecution Service.

Potential new suspect

The film also explores new areas, which have not been fully investigated by the authorities. It features private investigator Bill Dear and follows his enquiries into Jason, Simpson's son from his first marriage, whom he regards as a potential suspect that the police overlooked in their investigation.

Jason Simpson
Jason: History of violence
He reveals that Jason had a history of violent outbursts, including attacking people with a knife and had a criminal record.

The programme examines the evidence that shows that six months before her murder, Nicole was put under surveillance.

A man called Bill Wasz, who he says, had supplied cocaine to Simpson, Nicole and friends, had been hired by one of Simpson's friends to follow her and take photographs of Nicole with any man she might meet.

He recorded his surveillance in a notebook. In an interview from prison, where he is currently serving a jail term for armed robbery, Wasz explained that 10 days after handing over the photographs, he had been asked by Simpson's same friend to a meeting for a new assignment.

At that meeting, Wasz says, Simpson's friend then hired him as a hitman to kill Nicole.

Police ignored 'hitman' claims

The programme reveals that the police were made aware of Wasz's story just a few weeks after the murders and despite recommendations by senior detectives to pursue it, the prosecution decided to dismiss it.

Both the defence and the prosecution put out the story that Wasz had made the story up and that the notebook was a forgery.

However, the programme also goes on to show that four years later, the Wasz story was re-investigated again. The police and the District Attorney's office accepted that the notebook was genuine and that Wasz had been telling the truth.

However, after further investigation, the District Attorney's office dismissed the matter once more, despite promising leads that pointed to a possible plot to kill Nicole.

After a detailed investigation, OJ - The Untold Story, shows that a new investigation may be able to solve the crime.

With accusations of corruption within the Los Angeles Police forcing the reopening of hundreds of other cases, the truth about the deaths of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman could still be told.

--------------------------------------------------------------

If the above account is accurate, it could be seen as honourable (apart from delaying actual justice if he was aware) that a father would be willing to go to prison, maybe even death row, in order to protect their son?

But of course he's guilty because...because...the mob has spoken and karma pulled its finger out.

Regarding this recent crime, yes he seems pretty culpable, even so, if the majority of the posts on this thread are anything to go by he's unlikely to get a fair trial in any court.
« Last Edit: October 7, 2008, 06:14:46 pm by jammy tart »
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Offline El Campeador

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #51 on: October 7, 2008, 06:10:56 pm »
A well known cocaine abuser and wife beater who seemingly had all of America fooled.

Nothing wrong with a bifter every now and again, surely!

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #52 on: October 7, 2008, 07:04:40 pm »
Not to the same level, no. He was a black man that white americans had come to accept and love, because he had pandered to them for years. Then he appeared to stab them in the back. That was why when this whole thing happened, it enraged them so much. Everything in the world always comes back to race at the end of it all, as the racist police officer who planted the gloves (i forget his name) proved. Phil Spector has run around for years shooting and kicking women, and men to death and in general nobody gives a shite.

And not to be a pedant, but please quote the rest of my post instead of isolating that line to one sentence, where it is then taken out of context. I've noticed people do that alot on this forum. I'm not sticking up for him over the murder, i don't care if he went to prison. I'm not an OJ fan at all. what I was happy about is the fact Cochran beat the LAPD and scored a victory for black people.

I didn't quote you out of context at all, I quoted a specific part of your post that I was addressing. You obviously understood my gripe over what you said and defended your position. You are still saying you're glad over the verdict are you not? And simply because it's a victory for black people. I couldn't give a shit what race he is, if he did it he deserved to go down and if he didn't then he deserved to get off. If it was seen as some sort of race victory then that's just shameful, surely justice is what the end goal here is? and in my opinion it wasn't a victory for black people, if anything it was a victory for celebrity (if of course he was actually guilty of the crime). Do you think any run of the mill person regardless of colour would have got off given the amount of alleged circumstantial evidence?
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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #53 on: October 8, 2008, 01:15:06 am »
First thing that came to my mind was 'God how thick can you be'

Shouldve been you murdering, theiving, cheeky c*nt. Which was 3 seconds later
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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #54 on: October 8, 2008, 08:31:04 am »
It's not often that I agree with American Pool Fan, but I share his sentiments with regards to this issue.

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #55 on: October 8, 2008, 08:35:28 am »
I have. I'm neither black nor white. I'm merely commenting on what price such a moral victory could cost in terms of backlash against the black community. It's not hard to see that certain non-blacks would look on this case as a travesty of injustice and consequently be more prone to prejudice in future such cases.

And here we are on more comfortable ground disagreeing again, although like you I am neither black nor white.

If the OJ case causes certain people to become more prejudice than that is their problem not the problem of the black community.  Racist people will always have excuses for being racist, they don't need OJ to do it.

Offline Finn Solomon

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #56 on: October 8, 2008, 09:54:42 am »
And here we are on more comfortable ground disagreeing again, although like you I am neither black nor white.

If the OJ case causes certain people to become more prejudice than that is their problem not the problem of the black community.  Racist people will always have excuses for being racist, they don't need OJ to do it.

You are largely correct, although I did not have the racists in mind when making the comment. I'm thinking of the average guy who would be disgusted by the injustice displayed in the OJ trial, and might have been influenced the next time he serves on a jury. Your mileage may vary though.
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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #57 on: October 13, 2008, 07:51:18 pm »
Agreed but what's more sickening? the fact he wrote the book or the fact it became a New York Times Best Seller?

Did it?  I thought they took them off the shelves?  In either case, yes, it is disturbing that there's an audience out there for it, but that's nothing new unfortunately.  It's the world we live in.
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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #58 on: December 5, 2008, 05:55:19 pm »
OJ getting sentenced in a few minutes - SKY NEWS.
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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #59 on: December 5, 2008, 06:05:47 pm »
THIS JUDGE IS GOING on forever.
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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #60 on: December 5, 2008, 06:10:15 pm »
Fucking hollywood judge i'm waiting to go out, get the fuck on with it.
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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #61 on: December 5, 2008, 06:12:19 pm »
Fucking hollywood judge i'm waiting to go out, get the fuck on with it.

Vegas style this, Stewart gets a shit load of months, i'm lost. 15 years.
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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #62 on: December 5, 2008, 06:13:26 pm »
Boring me this, i'm out on the ale.
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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #63 on: December 5, 2008, 06:16:22 pm »
So he got 15 years then?
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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #65 on: December 5, 2008, 06:58:19 pm »
Good

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #66 on: December 5, 2008, 07:11:05 pm »
He got 15 years.



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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #67 on: December 5, 2008, 08:09:15 pm »
5 years until parole then...
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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #68 on: December 5, 2008, 08:46:21 pm »
Did it?  I thought they took them off the shelves?  In either case, yes, it is disturbing that there's an audience out there for it, but that's nothing new unfortunately.  It's the world we live in.

It got pulled before release. Then the Goldman's got the rights and they released it. No idea how it sold, though.
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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #69 on: December 5, 2008, 10:05:15 pm »
He was just getting back his own stuff, so may seem harsh. But the min they brought guns into it, they were asking for trouble

Cant help but feel he was found guilty (not that he was innocent) because of his first infamous case
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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #70 on: December 5, 2008, 10:43:29 pm »
5 years until parole then...

He's been told he must serve a minimum of nine.
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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #71 on: December 6, 2008, 12:16:58 am »
He was just getting back his own stuff, so may seem harsh. But the min they brought guns into it, they were asking for trouble

Cant help but feel he was found guilty (not that he was innocent) because of his first infamous case
Karma, perhaps?

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #72 on: December 6, 2008, 02:36:12 am »
Was he even that good a player?
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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #73 on: December 6, 2008, 02:59:29 am »
Was he even that good a player?
He was a terrific player but his football career is rarely spoken about anymore.

Offline shelovesyou

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #74 on: December 6, 2008, 03:17:22 am »
He was a terrific player but his football career is rarely spoken about anymore.

well when youve "apparantly" murdered 2 people and then got off scott free and you then commit armed robbery you kinda forget about things like that
the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself with people smarter than I am

Offline ALPH1217

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #75 on: December 6, 2008, 03:23:38 am »
no shit?

Offline shelovesyou

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Offline Stevie-G

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #77 on: December 6, 2008, 04:03:33 am »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47IHD4Dx7Ms

Check out 1.12. So many years ago they were in the courtroom in tears because of the injustice which occured. How fitting that they were here again to see justice prevail....eventually.
" WE GO AGAIN! "

Offline -Sad Fuck-

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #78 on: December 6, 2008, 04:31:00 am »
Did anyone else laugh when OJ goes 'Thank you'.

Why would you rob people with all that money though? I know I'd never rob anyone, but if I did, I'd rob football player's houses whilst they were playing in the Champions League.
hi

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Re: OJ faces life and death in prison - 13 years on
« Reply #79 on: December 8, 2008, 08:01:54 pm »
After the verdict, you couldn't find a person of color who thought him guilty (except Chris Rock) or a white person who thought him innocent.

After the civil case awarded almost everything he earned to the Goldman family, he had few opportunities to make money.

I always thought he'd make millions writing 'Yes I did it' after leaving the country.  Double jeopardy or not, he wouldn't be safe in America.
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