Topic: Mascherano

[-HH-]

I would suggest he would be direct opposition to Alonso with Sissoko and Gerrard fighting it out for the further forward of the 2 central midfielders.

On the odd occasion we play 5 in the middle, we would probably go back to the Valencia method of Alonso, Gerrard and one of Sissoko/Mascarano, plus two wingers, one of which would probably be Garcia.

I see no probelms with those two systems, and Mascarano would give us that Hamann-esque player we do need. I have been saying it for ages that Hamann was a big loss, Alonso just doesn't do quite the same job.

Absolutely spot on.

[Ole Gunnar]

I would suggest he would be direct opposition to Alonso with Sissoko and Gerrard fighting it out for the further forward of the 2 central midfielders.

And you can actually "rotate Alonso" without seriously reducing the quality of the starting 11.

[marvellous10]

He looked a hell of a player until he joined West Ham.

so did Sheva, all depends on the teams style of play

[Neil D]

so did Sheva, all depends on the teams style of play

To an extent, but also age, attitude, ability, how they adapt and whether they are given a chance.

[Strutter]

To an extent, but also age, attitude, ability, how they adapt and whether they are given a chance.

Exactly. Macquerano has played a total of 6 minutes since October.   

Hardly a reason for anyone to say he's not cut it.

He's not been given the opputunity to make anyone think either way.

[KurtVerbose]

It's no different to what we have now.

We effectively have four central midfielders - SG, Alonso, Sissoko and Zenden.

I'm not sure Rafa was interested in extending Zenden's contract or not, but with Sissoko out for a while he can bring in a replacement on loan (which is the deal being talked about) and then decide in the summer which of the two to keep. He doesn't have to alter his tactics to play all these players.

[litmanen37]

I'd be delighted with those 2 coming in. Mascherano has immense potential and Neil offers cover across the entire defence, indeed into the midfield as well. If we clinch those 2 signings we'd have significantly strengthened the squad.

spot on

i we had got mascherano in the summer before west ham then we would have been made up - he was excellent in the world cup

£6m for mascherano and £1-2m for Neill?  yes please!

[liverlon]

I would suggest he would be direct opposition to Alonso with Sissoko and Gerrard fighting it out for the further forward of the 2 central midfielders.

On the odd occasion we play 5 in the middle, we would probably go back to the Valencia method of Alonso, Gerrard and one of Sissoko/Mascarano, plus two wingers, one of which would probably be Garcia.

I see no probelms with those two systems, and Mascarano would give us that Hamann-esque player we do need. I have been saying it for ages that Hamann was a big loss, Alonso just doesn't do quite the same job.

Yup! Thats the heart of the matter.
Jeeze, its almost as if Rafa knows exactly what he's doing! 

[luap]

Honestly, ignoring the the possible complications of of the MSI/contract thingy, how could Mascarano joining Liverpool be a bad thing? What possible negative consequences would having him at the club bring? I think it would be a great signing, on loan or otherwise.

[The Finn]

Someone explain to me why the FIFA rule doesn't apply here. If we go by FIFA's definition of July 1st to June 30th being their calendar year, Mascherano has appeared for both Corinthians and West Ham during that time frame. He played 5 games for Corinthians between July 30th and August 27th, then appeared for West Ham on Sep. 10th and has appeared a total of 10 times.

Certainly seems like the "no more than 2 clubs in a year" rule counts here?

[marvellous10]

you're allowed to appeal against the ruling, and cos of his shabby treatment by the Hammers I reckon he'll be allowed to move to us

[Hightown Phil]

Someone explain to me why the FIFA rule doesn't apply here. If we go by FIFA's definition of July 1st to June 30th being their calendar year, Mascherano has appeared for both Corinthians and West Ham during that time frame. He played 5 games for Corinthians between July 30th and August 27th, then appeared for West Ham on Sep. 10th and has appeared a total of 10 times.

Certainly seems like the "no more than 2 clubs in a year" rule counts here?

Brazilian season ends on December 31.

[fowlermagic]

Maybe I am struggling to grasp the idea that Javier...... who has failed to make an impact in our league, whos buy out clause is reportly 35m, who may cost us an initial 5m fee plus 50k plus a week & whos resolve to succeed at West Ham became tepid before you could say bench..will actually add to our squad.

Yep hes the perfect experienced old head to fill Hamanns shoes. Anybody want to find the 101 reasons / threads why everyone was happy Alonso was Hamanns replacement?

[The Finn]

Brazilian season ends on December 31.

But does FIFA care about that? What they consider to be the 06 season runs from July 1st to June 30th, and Mascherano has played for 2 clubs in that time frame.

[Simon C]

But does FIFA care about that? What they consider to be the 06 season runs from July 1st to June 30th, and Mascherano has played for 2 clubs in that time frame.

I don't think the club would be progressing this unless they were 100% sure he would be able to play this season.

[harrytrow]

so you mean the last two clubs in twelve months was in fact the last calendar year by Mascheranos time-table, in which case Bascombe was right in that, fifa only need to ratify that interpretation of things.
However if they think his year starts at the same time as us i,e. last summer then he's into the three clubs in a year scenario

[liverlon]

If we're going for him with an initial six month loan option, then I think we'll have sorted this out, don't you?
Otherwise there'd be no point in him coming, would there?   

[Hightown Phil]

But does FIFA care about that?

Yes they do.

[Claire.]

Does anyone know the actual wording of this 3 clubs in a year or season or whatever the fuck it is, actually is?

Oh, and if it stipulates a 'year' or a 'season', what their definition is and the dates they stipulate within their definition.

Been looking on FIFA.com but it's all pdfs and I'm lazy.

[harrytrow]

Does anyone know the actual wording of this 3 clubs in a year or season or whatever the fuck it is, actually is?

Oh, and if it stipulates a 'year' or a 'season', what their definition is and the dates they stipulate within their definition.

Been looking on FIFA.com but it's all pdfs and I'm lazy.

So am I so if you look it up let me know

[AdamR]

Him and Neill would be great would for the prices said

[marvellous10]

they must be SOME chance of him playing, otherwise all the rumours wouldn't suffice?!

[The Finn]

If we're going for him with an initial six month loan option, then I think we'll have sorted this out, don't you?
Otherwise there'd be no point in him coming, would there?   

Fair enough just confused by it to be honest.

[Claire.]

they must be SOME chance of him playing, otherwise all the rumours wouldn't suffice?!

Sure I read in this thread that the vice president of FIFA is an Argentinian, and there's hope he'll pull some strings cos it'll effect Mascherano's career if he's left twiddling his thumbs at West Ham til the Summer, and he'll also lose his place in the national side, obviously.

[Neil D]

Maybe I am struggling to grasp the idea that Javier...... who has failed to make an impact in our league, whos buy out clause is reportly 35m, who may cost us an initial 5m fee plus 50k plus a week & whos resolve to succeed at West Ham became tepid before you could say bench..will actually add to our squad.

Yep hes the perfect experienced old head to fill Hamanns shoes. Anybody want to find the 101 reasons / threads why everyone was happy Alonso was Hamanns replacement?

Well he's not old, he's young.

People are probably excited because in the World Cup and at his previous clubs he looked like one of the most promising players in the world.

And Zenden is no replacement for Didi, nor is Xabi. He's a different type of player.

If we can pick him up on loan or on the cheap, maybe Rafa can get the best out of him.

West Ham have hardly tried.

[Claire.]

So am I so if you look it up let me know

Think it might be in this somewhere: REGULATIONS FOR THE STATUS AND TRANSFER OF PLAYERS - http://www.fifa.com/documents/static/regulations/Annex_TRANSFER_EN.pdf

[marvellous10]

Sure I read in this thread that the vice president of FIFA is an Argentinian, and there's hope he'll pull some strings cos it'll effect Mascherano's career if he's left twiddling his thumbs at West Ham til the Summer, and he'll also lose his place in the national side, obviously.

if that's the case he'll DEFO play as they're all corrupt lol!!!

[Joe Rogans Chin]

Very tidy player playing for the Argies in the WC.

Wouldn't touch him with a barge pole as there's nothing to suggest MSI wouldn't still own him, even if we paid 6 million, what would that be for 6 months or a year?

Good player but lousy business deal, every major club in Europe won't deal with MSI, why should we be any different?

[WorldChampions]

Loan deal though carn't see what we would lose

[Hightown Phil]

Very tidy player playing for the Argies in the WC.

Wouldn't touch him with a barge pole as there's nothing to suggest MSI wouldn't still own him, even if we paid 6 million, what would that be for 6 months or a year?

Good player but lousy business deal, every major club in Europe won't deal with MSI, why should we be any different?

I struggle to believe that our board, and manager are stupid.

[marvellous10]

Think it might be in this somewhere: REGULATIONS FOR THE STATUS AND TRANSFER OF PLAYERS - http://www.fifa.com/documents/static/regulations/Annex_TRANSFER_EN.pdf

takes too long to load, almost messed up my comp!!!

[Kaizer]

Does anyone know the actual wording of this 3 clubs in a year or season or whatever the fuck it is, actually is?

Oh, and if it stipulates a 'year' or a 'season', what their definition is and the dates they stipulate within their definition.

Been looking on FIFA.com but it's all pdfs and I'm lazy.

The exact rule has been posted on the forum earlier in regards to the Kromkamp deal.

[Art Vandelay]

Does anyone know the actual wording of this 3 clubs in a year or season or whatever the fuck it is, actually is?

Oh, and if it stipulates a 'year' or a 'season', what their definition is and the dates they stipulate within their definition.

Been looking on FIFA.com but it's all pdfs and I'm lazy.

Article 5.3 - Players may be registered for a maximum of three clubs during the period from 1 July until 30 June of the following year.  During this period, the player is only eligible to play in Official Matches for two clubs.

That's from the FA rules book.

[Claire.]

Think it might be in this somewhere: REGULATIONS FOR THE STATUS AND TRANSFER OF PLAYERS - http://www.fifa.com/documents/static/regulations/Annex_TRANSFER_EN.pdf

That pdf is about Futsal, but whatever, the rules and regs appear to be pretty much the same...

Says this anyway:

"Players may be registered for a maximum of three futsal clubs during
the period from 1 July until 30 June of the following year. During this
period, the player is only eligible to play in Offi cial Matches for two
clubs. The number of eleven-a-side clubs with which the same player
may also be registered during the period from 1 July until 30 June of
the following year is specifi ed in Art. 5 par. 3 of the Regulations for
the Status and Transfer of Players."

The year is defined as July - June, and that means he's played for two already and would require FIFA to grant him permission.

[brunny]

That pdf is about Futsal, but whatever, the rules and regs appear to be pretty much the same...

Says this anyway:

"Players may be registered for a maximum of three futsal clubs during
the period from 1 July until 30 June of the following year. During this
period, the player is only eligible to play in Offi cial Matches for two
clubs. The number of eleven-a-side clubs with which the same player
may also be registered during the period from 1 July until 30 June of
the following year is specifi ed in Art. 5 par. 3 of the Regulations for
the Status and Transfer of Players."

The year is defined as July - June, and that means he's played for two already and would require FIFA to grant him permission.

but in the echo stry the last time he played for his previous club was dec 2005, so surely since july he has only played for one club

[Spanish Fan]

Some people are asking what position Marscherano plays.
He is a "number 5" in Argentinina football jargon, a DM who sits in front of the defense, to protect the back four and has a tidy distribution. I would compare him with Makelele or with Hamman but more dynamic.
I personally rate him much higher than Sissoko, who is the better athlete but far worse footballer.
He would be ideal in a 3 CMs set up, but I am not sure that's what Benitez is after, as he is a very strong advocate of Sacchi's 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1.

Having Marcherano in the team would allow Xabi to play further up the pitch, but that would mean Gerrard on the wing unless Benitez changes his system (very unlikely).
When paired with Gerrard it would allow Steven to play a more attacking game as Marcherano is faster to cover central gaps, but I can't imagine Alonso sitting on the bench.
If Marcherano is signed Sissoko's minutes on the pitch would be reduced dramatically, but there may be problems with Gerrard having to play on the wing.

[Joe Rogans Chin]

Loan deal though carn't see what we would lose

Anywhere between 1-6 million depending on what you read, plus wages, for what?
Around 10 games as Xabi's understudy?

[Ole Gunnar]

Anywhere between 1-6 million depending on what you read, plus wages, for what?
Around 10 games as Xabi's understudy?

Surely the £6m mentioned is if we decide to buy him at the end of the season?

[Des Lynam]

Heard he's in Liverpool as we speak having a medical. Could be done by the weekend...

[harrytrow]

Kinell thats a long medical