Topic: Today's shooting - The Sandy Hook Memorial Thread - Thoughts and Prayers

[Trada]

How all Americans should feel.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/yrTXVdxXrwI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/yrTXVdxXrwI</a>

[Indomitable_Carp]

Because the latter might entail getting discovered and tortured if things go wrong. Plus there would only be a small group present. These mass murderers want to kill as many defenseless people as possible in 5-10 minutes, hence their attacks on schools, nightclubs, concerts, etc.

I think that is his point.

Leave guns aside for one moment. What kind of society is it that breeds so many people for whom the murder of as many defenceless people as possible is their main goal? And in the worlds wealthiest and most powerful nation no less.

Take away the guns, and you have taken away the means to kill so many people. But you haven't removed the deep underlying sickness of society that causes this to be a thing. There have been mass murders in other countries, this one included (even after we outlawed most firearms). But I can't think of anywhere outside of warzones where this happens in such numbers and frequency. It's absolutely insane.

[Chakan]

I think that is his point.

Leave guns aside for one moment. What kind of society is it that breeds so many people for whom the murder of as many defenceless people as possible is their main goal? And in the worlds wealthiest and most powerful nation no less.

Take away the guns, and you have taken away the means to kill so many people. But you haven't removed the deep underlying sickness of society that causes this to be a thing. There have been mass murders in other countries, this one included (even after we outlawed most firearms). But I can't think of anywhere outside of warzones where this happens in such numbers and frequency. It's absolutely insane.

There's 350m people in the US. China has many more people, stricter guns laws.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

The widespread availability of weaponry is obviously a huge issue.

It is the issue.Yes other countries have murderous,depressed & mentally ill people,the difference in say our country is that whilst people will still have that impulse to cause harm to others or ourselves,that impulse nearly always goes away during any planning phase,that's not so in America as the actual planning can be as simple as driving to the nearest large gathering because the means to inflict the carnage is in the bedside drawer or just down the street in the local Asda.

Murder with a firearm takes very little thought.

[Indomitable_Carp]

It is the issue.Yes other countries have murderous,depressed & mentally ill people,the difference in say our country is that whilst people will still have that impulse to cause harm to others or ourselves,that impulse nearly always goes away during any planning phase,that's not so in America as the actual planning can be as simple as driving to the nearest large gathering because the means to inflict the carnage is in the bedside drawer or just down the street in the local Asda.

Murder with a firearm takes very little thought.

This is true. You do read about random attacks by schizophrenics and other mentally ill people here. If they had guns it would be a whole lot worse.

But more often then not we are talking about murder-suicides here. And indeed, many (maybe most?) of the worst mass shootings in the U.S.A have been planned in advance, rather then being off-the-cuff. This one seems like it might not have been planned. But the one in Pittsburgh the guy drove up from Florida, Las Vegas was planned, the school shootings are all planned, the Baptist church was planned - often days, weeks or months in advance. That is plenty of time to think about it.

I'm sure China has its people with serious issues (indeed I remember reading about a mass stabbing a few years ago). I am just not so convinced those issues manifest themselves quite like they do in the USA, and certainly not on the same scale. Guns is only part of it. If you're that far gone and planning to die in the process, what does it matter to you if it's a knife or a gun?

[WhereAngelsPlay]

If you're that far gone and planning to die in the process, what does it matter to you if it's a knife or a gun?

Pretty sure that the NRA have run with that for a couple of decades now & in that time more Americans have died than did in every single war they've been involved in since 1776.

[AndyMuller]

Life is one big video game ala GTA in America.

[Indomitable_Carp]

Pretty sure that the NRA have run with that for a couple of decades now & in that time more Americans have died than did in every single war they've been involved in since 1776.

I'm not saying it's a reason for having guns. Clearly the access to guns is a massive part of it - nothing could possibly happen on this scale without them.

What I am saying is that U.S. society has gone terribly wrong somewhere along the way, irrespective of guns. This mass shooting thing is a fairly recent phenomenon. If it was just an issue of guns+nutters, then why was it not happening on anywhere near the same frequency and scale not so long ago?

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but one of the victims that died in this shooting in california, RIP, was also a survivor of the Vegas shooting from last year.

ffs

[BlackandWhitePaul]

How all Americans should feel.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/yrTXVdxXrwI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/yrTXVdxXrwI</a>

Can someone tell me how many people are shot and killed in the good ol US of A every year please?

[soxfan]

Can someone tell me how many people are shot and killed in the good ol US of A every year please?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Can someone tell me how many people are shot and killed in the good ol US of A every year please?

You can add up every casualty from every war that America has been in since 1776 and you still don't come close to the number from the past 25yrs.

[RedBootsTommySmith]

Updated...

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org

[BlackandWhitePaul]

Jesus Christ, I had no idea the figuires would be so high.

I abhor violence of any kind, to animals as well as humans.

It's turned me sick looking at the stats, children even, thousand shot per year     

[Chakan]

Jesus Christ, I had no idea the figuires would be so high.

I abhor violence of any kind, to animals as well as humans.

It's turned me sick looking at the stats, children even, thousand shot per year     

But $$$ !!!

[rob1966]

Jesus Christ, I had no idea the figuires would be so high.

I abhor violence of any kind, to animals as well as humans.

It's turned me sick looking at the stats, children even, thousand shot per year     

Suicides make up the majority of the deaths, with is a shocking stat. The total amount of kids shot each year playing with loaded guns they find in the house should be fucking zero.

[soxfan]

Suicides make up the majority of the deaths, with is a shocking stat. The total amount of kids shot each year playing with loaded guns they find in the house should be fucking zero.

The solution, as always, is more guns.

If family pets were allowed guns, they'd be able to shoot the guns out of the hands of the little kids, preventing these suicides.

#NRAgunsforcats&dogs&parrots&goldfish&bunnies

[andy07]

Americans.  They will never learn.  Unfortunately this thread will continue ad infinitum.

[rob1966]

The solution, as always, is more guns.

If family pets were allowed guns, they'd be able to shoot the guns out of the hands of the little kids, preventing these suicides.

#NRAgunsforcats&dogs&parrots&goldfish&bunnies

No, you need to arm the kids, that way when little johnny pulls his Dads gun, little Pammy can draw hers and shoot back.

[Giono]

Americans.  They will never learn.  Unfortunately this thread will continue ad infinitum.

Just read that 15 GOP Congressman with A ratings from the NRA just lost to...15 Dem candidates with F ratings from the NRA. Small, but real.

[BarryCrocker]

It's always too soon to talk about gun laws in the USA in the weeks after these events regularly occur, however a currently in progress bush fire in California is instantly blamed on poor forest management by Trump and that they should cut funding.

Donald J. Trump

There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!

[rob1966]

It's always too soon to talk about gun laws in the USA in the weeks after these events regularly occur, however a currently in progress bush fire in California is instantly blamed on poor forest management by Trump and that they should cut funding.

Utter lowlife c*nt (Trump not you).

The thing with these stupid c*nts over the pond, is that we know they won't give up their firearms, but if they changed their attitudes and sorted their society out, they could still keep their guns for sporting and hunting purposes.
Rather than spend billions on military black projects, divert a chunk to getting as many of the illegal guns off the streets, that will massively reduce the mass shootings (gangs shooting fuck out of each other are classed as mass shootings) and armed robberies, spend money on mental health and take care of people and that will drastically reduce the 17,000 plus suicides each year, give those in poverty something in their lives so that they don't resort to armed crime. Proper laws on locking guns in secure cabinets, separate from the ammo, will stop kids shooting each other and restrict access for teens intent on killing schoolmates.

[_00_deathscar]

What I am saying is that U.S. society has gone terribly wrong somewhere along the way, irrespective of guns. This mass shooting thing is a fairly recent phenomenon. If it was just an issue of guns+nutters, then why was it not happening on anywhere near the same frequency and scale not so long ago?

Availability of higher powered guns
Media revolving around these shootings, almost geeing up the next shooter (to phrase it very poorly)

There are nutters everywhere - living in Hong Kong, there are tons of nutters here in a very, very densely populated environment. Now imagine if everyone had guns...

[rob1966]

Black lives still don't matter 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46187460

Outcry after police shoot African-American security guard 'hero'

Jemel Roberson hoped to become a police officer himself, friends say

An armed security guard at a bar in suburban Chicago was killed by police as he detained a suspected gunman, according to officials and witnesses.

After gunfire erupted around 04:00 local time on Sunday, Jemel Roberson, 26, chased down an attacker and kneeled on his back until police arrived.

Moments after police came on the scene, an officer opened fire on Roberson, who was black, killing him.

Friends say Roberson was a musician who had dreams of joining the police.

"The very people that he wanted to be family with took his life," Patricia Hill, the pastor of Purposed Hill church in Chicago, told WGN-TV.

Roberson worked as a gospel musician at several nearby churches, and also had found work at Manny's Blue Room in Robbins, Illinois, where the shooting occurred.

Sophia Ansari, a spokeswoman for the Cook County Sheriff's office, said police were called to the scene after a fight broke out in the bar and four people were shot.

Witness Adam Harris told Fox32 that Roberson, who was armed with a legally owned firearm, then chased down and caught one of the attackers.

"The security guard that got killed, he caught somebody and had his knee on him the whole time," Mr Harris said.

"Just waiting on the police to get there. I guess when the police got there, they probably thought he was one of the bad guys, cause he had his gun on the guy and they shot him."

"Everybody was screaming out 'security, he was a security guard'", Mr Harris added, "and they still did their job and saw a black man with a gun and basically killed him".

Images on social media show a chaotic scene outside the bar as witnesses shouted at police.

"He was protecting the club and holding a suspect down," Mr Harris told CBS.

The chief of the Midlothian police, whose officer fired the fatal shot, said in a statement: "Upon arrival officers learned there were several gunshot victims inside the bar."

Chief Dan Delaney continued: "A Midlothian officer encountered a subject with a gun and was involved in an officer-involved shooting."

Illinois State Police have been asked to investigate the shooting, according to Ms Ansari.

What is the reaction?

Acquaintances say Roberson was a spiritual man, who played organ at several churches in southern Chicago.

"How in the world does the security guard get shot by police?" New Spiritual Light Baptist Church Pastor Walter Turner told ABC7 News.

"A young man that was literally doing his job and now he's gone."

An online fundraiser set up for Roberson's burial expenses had raised over $5,000 (Ł3,900) as of Monday.

"Jemel was a gifted basketball player and musician, and his love for God and his family were at the forefront of his life," according to the GoFundMe page.

"Sadly, Jemel's life was tragically and unexpectedly cut short this morning as he tried to save others from senseless violence."

According to FBI data, a disproportionately high proportion of police shootings in the US involve black people.

[Alan_X]

...Witness Adam Harris told Fox32 that Roberson, who was armed with a legally owned firearm, then chased down and caught one of the attackers.

"The security guard that got killed, he caught somebody and had his knee on him the whole time," Mr Harris said.

"Just waiting on the police to get there. I guess when the police got there, they probably thought he was one of the bad guys, cause he had his gun on the guy he was black and they shot him...."

[WhereAngelsPlay]

It is dangerous to be black in America.

[KillieRed]

It is dangerous to be black in America.

So much for the Trump/NRA "arm everyone" (unless they`re black) philosophy.

[FlashGordon]

Literally a good guy with a gun. Who would've thought it could've went wrong? RIP.

[PaulF]

Availability of higher powered guns
Media revolving around these shootings, almost geeing up the next shooter (to phrase it very poorly)

There are nutters everywhere - living in Hong Kong, there are tons of nutters here in a very, very densely populated environment. Now imagine if everyone had guns...

It's not quite copycat, but there is well established research suggesting if people see these behaviours it's deemed more reasonable.

[AndyInVA]

Literally a good guy with a gun. Who would've thought it could've went wrong? RIP.

The irony.

So was the good black guy with a gun shot by a good cop with a gun or a bad cop with a gun.

[Indomitable_Carp]

The irony.

So was the good black guy with a gun shot by a good cop with a gun or a bad cop with a gun.

Depends who you ask I think

[TipTopKop]

I have to laugh at all you linking gun violence to weapons, NRA, 'Murica, $$$ etc...  you've all been barking up the wrong tree this whole time.

If you've all had done your thorough research you would have known that the reason for mass shooting is....    Zombies. Yep.


===================================================
Zombie TV shows are among root causes of mass shootings, Republican governor says

Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin has been forthright about what he believes are the root causes of mass shootings. A few months ago, the Republican blamed gun violence on children's access to smartphones, video games and psychotropic drugs.

Most recently, he blamed society's obsession with a specific genre of violent entertainment.

"Seriously, what's the most important topic that seems to be in every cable television network for example? Television shows are all about what? Zombies," he said in an interview Tuesday with conservative Kentucky radio host Leland Conway.

Mass shootings point to deep cultural problems, Bevin said, particularly in a society that consumes daily doses of violence through the media. He acknowledged tying zombie shows to gun violence might be perceived as "trite and simplistic." But, he argued, American culture is "inundated by the worst things that celebrate death," including the forms of entertainment young people consume.

"These are drips, drips, drips on the stones of the psyches of young generations that are growing up in a society that increasingly said this is normal and okay," he said. "And eventually, some of those young minds are not going to be able to handle it."

Bevin talked about what he believes causes mass shootings during a portion of the interview about the future of gun rights with Democrats controlling the House. Democrats, some of whom ran on a promise to push for gun control, are taking over the House on the heels of another mass shooting in which 12 people were killed inside a California bar. Some who escaped the rampage are survivors of an earlier mass shooting that killed 58 people at a country music festival in Las Vegas last year.

Last month, a gunman stormed inside a synagogue in Pittsburgh and killed 11 congregants - the deadliest attack on Jews in the history of the country.

Bevin did not mention these recent shootings during the interview, though he said there have been incidents in Kentucky.

"We've had things that are fueled by both people that are insane, people that are hateful and people that are just bent on wreaking havoc and perpetuating evil," he said.

Last June, Bevin participated in a roundtable discussion about gun violence, the root cause of which, he said, are the ways society poisons the minds of children.

He said violent television shows and video games have desensitized young people, and their access to cellphones have made them prone to self-harm and depression. Young people, he said, are then medicated with psychotropic, mind-altering drugs.

"And then we're shocked, for reasons that are beyond me, that children act out this way. And yes, it's only a few. But my gracious, it only takes a few," he said.

The roundtable was convened by a school safety commission President Donald Trump created in the wake of a school shooting in which 17 people were killed in Parkland, Florida, early this year.

[Alan_X]

Or maybe it's the easy access to guns and the celebration of gun culture that's desensitised young people?

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/W2rpVWizSIY?fs=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/W2rpVWizSIY?fs=1</a>

[stoopid yank]

Only a week later this is completely out of news cycle here in US. Collective amnesia, until the next one. 

[Giono]

Only a week later this is completely out of news cycle here in US. Collective amnesia, until the next one. 

News organisations don't like neat and tidy solutions. They love ongoing debate, violence, and stubbornness. (That is why Trump is the president of their dreams.) They don't want the debate, the footage, the cast of characters to end. If it bleeds it leads...

[mallin9]

Am I being precious in asking we change the name of this thread?  I'm not a social media user and when I visit RAWK a lot of time it's to catch up on what's going on. And when I see this thread with the red NEW button next to it......I don't like that feeling

Reasonable pushback is that's life sugar. Just a thought

[Chakan]

Am I being precious in asking we change the name of this thread?  I'm not a social media user and when I visit RAWK a lot of time it's to catch up on what's going on. And when I see this thread with the red NEW button next to it......I don't like that feeling

Reasonable pushback is that's life sugar. Just a thought

You want to change "month's" to "week's" ?

[ChaChaMooMoo]

You want to change "month's" to "week's" ?

I would have it as "Today's".
The only ones that get posted on here are the ones that are on the international news. And the rest dont make up the news.

[Alan_X]

I change the title if there's been another big shooting. And just a gentle reminder - we aren't a news site.

[Macphisto80]

I have to laugh at all you linking gun violence to weapons, NRA, 'Murica, $$$ etc...  you've all been barking up the wrong tree this whole time.

If you've all had done your thorough research you would have known that the reason for mass shooting is....    Zombies. Yep.


===================================================
Zombie TV shows are among root causes of mass shootings, Republican governor says

Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin has been forthright about what he believes are the root causes of mass shootings. A few months ago, the Republican blamed gun violence on children's access to smartphones, video games and psychotropic drugs.

Most recently, he blamed society's obsession with a specific genre of violent entertainment.

"Seriously, what's the most important topic that seems to be in every cable television network for example? Television shows are all about what? Zombies," he said in an interview Tuesday with conservative Kentucky radio host Leland Conway.

Mass shootings point to deep cultural problems, Bevin said, particularly in a society that consumes daily doses of violence through the media. He acknowledged tying zombie shows to gun violence might be perceived as "trite and simplistic." But, he argued, American culture is "inundated by the worst things that celebrate death," including the forms of entertainment young people consume.

"These are drips, drips, drips on the stones of the psyches of young generations that are growing up in a society that increasingly said this is normal and okay," he said. "And eventually, some of those young minds are not going to be able to handle it."

Bevin talked about what he believes causes mass shootings during a portion of the interview about the future of gun rights with Democrats controlling the House. Democrats, some of whom ran on a promise to push for gun control, are taking over the House on the heels of another mass shooting in which 12 people were killed inside a California bar. Some who escaped the rampage are survivors of an earlier mass shooting that killed 58 people at a country music festival in Las Vegas last year.

Last month, a gunman stormed inside a synagogue in Pittsburgh and killed 11 congregants - the deadliest attack on Jews in the history of the country.

Bevin did not mention these recent shootings during the interview, though he said there have been incidents in Kentucky.

"We've had things that are fueled by both people that are insane, people that are hateful and people that are just bent on wreaking havoc and perpetuating evil," he said.

Last June, Bevin participated in a roundtable discussion about gun violence, the root cause of which, he said, are the ways society poisons the minds of children.

He said violent television shows and video games have desensitized young people, and their access to cellphones have made them prone to self-harm and depression. Young people, he said, are then medicated with psychotropic, mind-altering drugs.

"And then we're shocked, for reasons that are beyond me, that children act out this way. And yes, it's only a few. But my gracious, it only takes a few," he said.

The roundtable was convened by a school safety commission President Donald Trump created in the wake of a school shooting in which 17 people were killed in Parkland, Florida, early this year.

Just read that and laughed out loud. It reads like satire, or the news reel from Robocop.