Topic: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)

[meady1981]

Kind of wish I hadn’t read the book now.

[newterp]

Spoiler

Good for Blackthorne getting one last rumble in

[close]

[afc tukrish]

Spoiler

Good for Blackthorne getting one last rumble in

[close]

Loved the sort of Indiana Jones moment, too...

[The G in Gerrard]

Show has been brilliant. Glad Blackthorne has not featured prominently in the show.

[Ultimate Bromance]

Spent half an hour in a bit of a daze after that ending, what a show. Completely smitten with Anna Sawai.

[Draex]

Spent half an hour in a bit of a daze after that ending, what a show. Completely smitten with Anna Sawai.

I've just breathed out.. Finished it 20mins ago.. Intense..

[RedDeadRejection]

Spent half an hour in a bit of a daze after that ending, what a show. Completely smitten with Anna Sawai.

If she doesn't become a star off the back of this then it'd be clear that the industry is blind.

[Trada]

If she doesn't become a star off the back of this then it'd be clear that the industry is blind.

I wonder if her wages have gone up for the 2nd series of Monarch: Legacy of Monsters that's the only other thing I  know she was in

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/JLHsM4bpfxY" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/JLHsM4bpfxY</a>

[Sangria]

At least two tributes to Hosokawa Gracia, the original on whom Toda Mariko was based. The line "Flowers are only flowers because they fall" is from Gracia's death poem, which would have been the piece of paper Mariko handed over before doing the deed. Mariko's cross is also a replica of Gracia's cross.

[Gili Gulu]

I wonder if her wages have gone up for the 2nd series of Monarch: Legacy of Monsters that's the only other thing I  know she was in

Well I'm going to watch Season 1 now because she was in it.

[kaesarsosei]

Someone mentioned a show on Netflix called Hari/Gaji or something like that which has Mariko and Ishido in it. Ishido was also in Inception right? He's a quality actor, as is Toronaga who's been in tons of stuff.

[Sangria]

Someone mentioned a show on Netflix called Hari/Gaji or something like that which has Mariko and Ishido in it. Ishido was also in Inception right? He's a quality actor, as is Toronaga who's been in tons of stuff.

IIRC Toranaga, just as he thinks he's registering a W, is killed by a long haired woman climbing out of a well. It's horrifying. Miyamoto Musashi wrote a book about the incident, titled The Book of Five Ringus.

[Sangria]

Spent half an hour in a bit of a daze after that ending, what a show. Completely smitten with Anna Sawai.

Do you like jpop?

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/RKvsup7rBkQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/RKvsup7rBkQ</a> 

[afc tukrish]

Do you like jpop?

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/RKvsup7rBkQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/RKvsup7rBkQ</a> 

I like Anna Sawai...

[emergency exit]

ALL of the feels.

Incredible show.

[stewil007]

Epic series, considering its 95% in Japanese and the subtitles can take you away from the beauty of it all, it was still amazing.

If i could tweak the final episode, it would be

Spoiler

no need for the Blackthorn as an old man bits - for me, didn't add to the episode and takes away the tension from the scene of Anjin-sama attempting to commit  Seppuku.

Also, no matter the budget and greatness of the costume etc, putting grey hair and wrinkles on a younger man, doesn't convincingly make him look old

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[Sangria]

Epic series, considering its 95% in Japanese and the subtitles can take you away from the beauty of it all, it was still amazing.

If i could tweak the final episode, it would be

Spoiler

no need for the Blackthorn as an old man bits - for me, didn't add to the episode and takes away the tension from the scene of Anjin-sama attempting to commit  Seppuku.

Also, no matter the budget and greatness of the costume etc, putting grey hair and wrinkles on a younger man, doesn't convincingly make him look old

[close]

Spoiler

You can see old man Blackthorne has Mariko's cross. You can see Blackthorne dropping the cross into the water. Old man Blackthorne is the future that might have been, his dream of returning to England as the first Englishman to reach Japan, and making it big. But still holding onto Mariko. That never happens, and even if he wanted it to happen, Toranaga confirms he'd never let it happen. Instead, Blackthorne lets go of that dream, and Mariko being his sole link with Japan, and throws himself into Japan as symbolised by Ajiro joining him as one to pull the wreckage from the sea. Although the break is Blackthorne thinking of that dream, saying Fuck it, and going full bore Japan by committing seppuku to make his statement to Toranaga.

[close]

[Gili Gulu]

Spoiler

You can see old man Blackthorne has Mariko's cross. You can see Blackthorne dropping the cross into the water. Old man Blackthorne is the future that might have been, his dream of returning to England as the first Englishman to reach Japan, and making it big. But still holding onto Mariko. That never happens, and even if he wanted it to happen, Toranaga confirms he'd never let it happen. Instead, Blackthorne lets go of that dream, and Mariko being his sole link with Japan, and throws himself into Japan as symbolised by Ajiro joining him as one to pull the wreckage from the sea. Although the break is Blackthorne thinking of that dream, saying Fuck it, and going full bore Japan by committing seppuku to make his statement to Toranaga.

[close]

Yes I agree, I managed to get that part.

Spoiler

Was a good ending, summed things up well, everyones motivations revealed. and their feelings on what's happened.

[close]

[newterp]

final episode is out?

[stewil007]

Spoiler

You can see old man Blackthorne has Mariko's cross. You can see Blackthorne dropping the cross into the water. Old man Blackthorne is the future that might have been, his dream of returning to England as the first Englishman to reach Japan, and making it big. But still holding onto Mariko. That never happens, and even if he wanted it to happen, Toranaga confirms he'd never let it happen. Instead, Blackthorne lets go of that dream, and Mariko being his sole link with Japan, and throws himself into Japan as symbolised by Ajiro joining him as one to pull the wreckage from the sea. Although the break is Blackthorne thinking of that dream, saying Fuck it, and going full bore Japan by committing seppuku to make his statement to Toranaga.

[close]

I didn't get that......have you read the book?

[Sangria]

Spoiler

You can see the cross held by old Blackthorne. You can see the cross being dropped into the sea by young Blackthorne. That alone tells you that the old Blackthorne, as depicted, can't be true. You also have Toranaga telling Yabushige that he'll probably burn the ship Anjin's building, that he thinks Anjin's fate is to remain in Japan.

None of the images are in the book, other than the Erasmus being burned on Toranaga's instigation, and Toranaga thinking to himself that he'll keep Anjin in Japan.

[close]

[FlashingBlade]

Immense.

 

[Draex]

Top 5 series of all time for me, each episode was a masterpiece.

[FlashingBlade]

Top 5 series of all time for me, each episode was a masterpiece.

Totally agree

[The G in Gerrard]

Spoiler

You can see old man Blackthorne has Mariko's cross. You can see Blackthorne dropping the cross into the water. Old man Blackthorne is the future that might have been, his dream of returning to England as the first Englishman to reach Japan, and making it big. But still holding onto Mariko. That never happens, and even if he wanted it to happen, Toranaga confirms he'd never let it happen. Instead, Blackthorne lets go of that dream, and Mariko being his sole link with Japan, and throws himself into Japan as symbolised by Ajiro joining him as one to pull the wreckage from the sea. Although the break is Blackthorne thinking of that dream, saying Fuck it, and going full bore Japan by committing seppuku to make his statement to Toranaga.

[close]

Had not considered that.

Disappointed it has ended.

Spoiler

I would have liked that Ishiro scene played out where he finds out he has no allies

[close]

[kaesarsosei]

I don't know about top5 but its close. I think shows like The Wire, Sopranos, Breaking Bad are on a higher level just because of the volume of episodes and the sustained quality over years. But I also think minute-for-minute Chernobyl is the best TV ever made with its only 5 episodes and this is up there with it and will stay with me for a long time.

I started watching this thinking it would be cool to see some samurai armies waving Katanas around and by the end I was so happy I never got to see that.

Never got the hate for Cosmo Jarvis during the show, thought he was fantastic the whole way through but basically anyone in this could win an Emmy for their performance and Anna Sawai almost certainly will.

The only negative for me is where to go from here. I don't know how it can be followed up - thinking of something like The Terror which was also a fantastic season 1 based on an equally fantastic book but then they pulled Season2 out of nowhere and it was shite.

[Draex]

I don't know about top5 but its close. I think shows like The Wire, Sopranos, Breaking Bad are on a higher level just because of the volume of episodes and the sustained quality over years. But I also think minute-for-minute Chernobyl is the best TV ever made with its only 5 episodes and this is up there with it and will stay with me for a long time.

I started watching this thinking it would be cool to see some samurai armies waving Katanas around and by the end I was so happy I never got to see that.

Never got the hate for Cosmo Jarvis during the show, thought he was fantastic the whole way through but basically anyone in this could win an Emmy for their performance and Anna Sawai almost certainly will.

The only negative for me is where to go from here. I don't know how it can be followed up - thinking of something like The Terror which was also a fantastic season 1 based on an equally fantastic book but then they pulled Season2 out of nowhere and it was shite.

I've not seen the Wire, Sopranos I'd agree, Breaking Bad is quality but as with multiple seasons and many episodes you always get some weaker ones, I found Breaking Bad to drop in quality near the end, the mum was increasingly fucking annoying.

Shogun delivers with every episode for me and thats so rare with TV these days which is mainly mass produced shite.

[ToneLa]

it is a  top level show to me

Arguably easier with short a shorter run, but every episode is complex, beautiful, just right on a number of levels

Feel very satisifed having seen this series. It's also somewhat rare to have a story of this quality sewn up in ten episodes

1. The Wire
2. Better Call Saul
3. Sopranos
4. Shogun

[Pistolero]

Finished it last night. Just wonderful TV.....absolutely loved it....Anna Sawai...my word, what a remarkable performance...the mannerisms, the facial expressions, her intensity, her smile, the way she moved, the way she spoke.......to quote Seinfeld's Bellboy...I was enchanted.....

[Draex]

it is a  top level show to me

Arguably easier with short a shorter run, but every episode is complex, beautiful, just right on a number of levels

Feel very satisifed having seen this series. It's also somewhat rare to have a story of this quality sewn up in ten episodes

1. The Wire
2. Better Call Saul
3. Sopranos
4. Shogun

I have no order - Sopranos, Shogun, Stranger Things, Band of Brothers, The Bear

[Agent99]

Brilliant show. Binged it all yesterday after finding out I didn't have to wait until Thursday for Disney+ to show it 

Wasn't a fan of Cosmo Jarvis at all in the beginning but he grew on me and by the end I thought he was great.

[Trump's tiny tiny hands]

Don't think it can be topped as a single, standalone series. The other shows people mention have multiple seasons to flesh out characters and story lines. Shogun manages to immerse you in 17th century Japan and have you hanging off every word Toranaga utters halfway through episode one. It really is incredibly well done.

[FlashingBlade]

Finished it last night. Just wonderful TV.....absolutely loved it....Anna Sawai...my word, what a remarkable performance...the mannerisms, the facial expressions, her intensity, her smile, the way she moved, the way she spoke.......to quote Seinfeld's Bellboy...I was enchanted.....

yeah , I fancied her too!

[FlashingBlade]

Brilliant show. Binged it all yesterday after finding out I didn't have to wait until Thursday for Disney+ to show it 

Wasn't a fan of Cosmo Jarvis at all in the beginning but he grew on me and by the end I thought he was great.

I think Jarvis played it brilliant and more to point his casting...at first I though he looked stiff and awkward but soon released his castings perfectly put in context his ( at first) boorish uncouth character in contrast to the sensibilities of the Japanese culture.

I also liked he was off centre to the whole story, letting the engrossing Japanese drama unfold.

[rob1966]

In the book...

There are ninja...

I bought it

[afc tukrish]

I bought it

Look at that!

Beautiful...

[newterp]

Blackthorne is an idiot. Of all the characters - I won't miss him.

Not sure how I felt about the last episode. I was hoping for a great apocalyptic ending.

Great single season series for sure.

Now off to read the book(s).

[Schmidt]

I thought Blackthorne behaving the way he did made sense. He's at the mercy of those around him, he can't communicate effectively and Japanese culture at the time made people very difficult to read. It also might feel jarring if he was a very charismatic and elegant individual and yet was still being called a barbarian and treated like a dog by those around him.

[Pistolero]

Didn't read this thread till I finished the series...and haven't read the books either...so was somewhat surprised at the reaction to Blackthorn?....thought he was great personally...an effective oafish, impulsive and reckless counterpart to the ritualistic, ceremonial and deeply held stoic values of the Japanese culture he landed in.....a key character and excellently portrayed by Cosmo Jarvis...thoroughly enjoyed his very apparent influences - Oliver Reed, Hopkins, Richard Harris et al - a suitably old fashioned performance in what was a pleasingly old fashioned, epic TV series ....

[The G in Gerrard]

I don't get the fuss about Chernobyl. It's not comparable to some of the shows mentioned imo.