Author Topic: "Black Footballers' Association"  (Read 24971 times)

Offline Big Red Richie

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2012, 06:28:58 pm »
We don't know the answer, because it hasn't happened before. If black players feel better represented, then I think it's a good thing. Fact is the FA is a bunch of old white rich dudes who shouldn't be running the game. If it takes something like this to draw attention to it, even if only as a threat, then I think that's perfectly acceptable.
At this point I'm inclined to agree with an above post, and think it's only a threat to draw attention to the issue, and force a reaction, without any firm belief that it would ever actually go ahead.

As for the F.A.   I think that we can agree on that. They are an organisation that are not fit for purpose, and have been out of touch with the majority of football fans a for a long long time.

Quote
Schizm is an interesting choice of word. You act like this is designed to promote black players over others. It won't. They're under represented everywhere other than on the pitch, and this would help redress the balance.
Thats the whole point though, it shouldn't be about promoting any one group over the other. It should be about all parties fighting for the one goal.
If any ethnic minority can't see that as the way forward, then their self serving blinkers are obviously blinding them to the irony of forming a breakaway association.

Genuine question?  Do you really think that breaking away, and forming a stand alone association is going to either stop any form of discrimination and bring all parties to some sort of parity?
[/quote]

Offline R.A.La

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2012, 06:29:06 pm »
The first thing they need to do is learn the difference between abusive name calling and racism.
those people were scared off by the distress chatter and the organised internet terrorism campaign that was directed against people involved.

Offline Big Red Richie

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2012, 06:30:31 pm »
This thread will soon be closed.

Too many white people know fuck all about racism.
WOW. Thats an entrenched view from a dare I say it, discriminatory viewpoint.



Seriously, come on then, educate us. Enlighten us with your pearls of wisdom.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 06:32:28 pm by Big Red Richie »

Offline HighSix

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2012, 06:30:44 pm »
The first thing they need to do is learn the difference between abusive name calling and racism.

Really any need for this? 

Offline R.A.La

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2012, 06:31:41 pm »
those people were scared off by the distress chatter and the organised internet terrorism campaign that was directed against people involved.

Offline Lenin.

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2012, 06:32:12 pm »
This thread will soon be closed.

Too many white people know fuck all about racism.
Maybe, but quite a lot of white people have also been subject to discrimination via nationality, class, religion etc. Particularly quite a lot of people from Liverpool who have working class, irish, catholic roots.
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Offline ghost1359

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2012, 06:32:33 pm »
Can't say I blame them, the FA as everyone knows are painfully incompetent
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Offline rusty-la

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2012, 06:34:04 pm »
This thread will soon be closed.

Too many white people know fuck all about racism.

Really?.

Where did you learn that?

Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2012, 06:35:22 pm »
The name in itself is disgusting. It smacks of seperation between colour and creed.

It's not about them fighting racism, that's just a nice excuse the people in this "association" can use. I find this an insult to every non black footballer. Talk about pulling in different directions. Think they've "studied" too much Malcolm X and Elijah Muhammad.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 06:39:50 pm by Upinsmoke »

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2012, 06:36:54 pm »
it'll just make it worse.

come on lets be honest here, imagine coming out and even saying "we are making a white only Fa" there'd be murder.

Stupid idea.

Not sure if you are joking but isn't that exactly what the FA is?
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Offline ghost1359

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #50 on: October 23, 2012, 06:40:31 pm »
Thats the whole point though, it shouldn't be about promoting any one group over the other.

Yet look at the contrasting reactions to Suarez & Terry. The FA do all they can to protect white English players, the outcome of that Terry case just confirmed what I already suspected.
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Offline lfcshaunod

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #51 on: October 23, 2012, 06:41:16 pm »
I miss when football was about kicking a football. Ridiculous irony here.

What's next?

Paul Scholes to form the 'Ginger Footballers Association'?

Hey. Fuck off, there's no need for bringing gingers into it.

Not that im sensitive or anything. Im more strawberry blonde anyway.

In all seriousness though, what the fuck is going on?!

Joleon Lescott hasnt wore one of the kick it out shirts in like 5 years and nobody bats an eye lid about it. But as soon as Rio Ferdinand gets involved, whoa fuckin hell, this calls for a black FA.

I mean if Rio is involved, it must be serious. He isnt one for attention seeking is he?
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Offline Garstonite

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2012, 06:43:09 pm »
This thread will soon be closed.

Too many white people know fuck all about racism.

I still maintain only Irish people 'get' Father Ted.

Offline Hazell

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2012, 06:43:32 pm »
I still maintain only Irish people 'get' Father Ted.

Feck off.
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2012, 06:45:16 pm »
Jambutty that comment is hardly called for.
Needless to say, and this goes for all, this thread will be closely followed and we'd ask you to think very carefully before posting. Ta.

Offline ghost1359

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2012, 06:45:36 pm »
They are idiots. Racism in English football has vastly reduced over the years. I'm old enough to remember how bad it was in the early 80's. All this because Terry got off lightly? He'll be retired and forgotten about in a few years. A 'black only' association is fundamentally wrong and borderline racist in this day and age. Some people are off on a power trip.

Why are they idiots? People bang the 'racism works both ways' drum all the time but rarely in life are white people the victim of it, more often than not it's Blacks & Asians that suffer so if they're saying there's still a problem in the game who are we to disagree? Just because people aren't throwing bananas at players any more & calling them niggers left right & centre doesn't mean that racism isn't still a problem.
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Offline Outer Mongolian Red

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2012, 06:47:42 pm »
This thread will soon be closed.

Too many white people know fuck all about racism.
Some of us know a lot about xenophobia but that seems to be acceptable in England.

Offline Lenin.

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2012, 06:49:34 pm »
I dont get what the big hoo ha is all about. There are loads of Black Associations in varying fields in this country already. I presume they exist to promote the interests of that certain minority group.
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Offline Hazell

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2012, 06:50:18 pm »
Honestly, I can see the possible reasons for this. Like most things in life, there's positives and negatives. I just hope that they at least tried to talk to the PFA and discuss the best way forward before setting up their own association because the organisation would be much stronger together. There is always the possibility of disconnect and divisiveness with things like this.
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Offline Something Awful

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #59 on: October 23, 2012, 06:58:12 pm »
Thats the whole point though, it shouldn't be about promoting any one group over the other. It should be about all parties fighting for the one goal.
If any ethnic minority can't see that as the way forward, then their self serving blinkers are obviously blinding them to the irony of forming a breakaway association.

Genuine question?  Do you really think that breaking away, and forming a stand alone association is going to either stop any form of discrimination and bring all parties to some sort of parity?

The problem is that there is a perceived (IMO legitmately) imbalance in the number of black players and the number of black people in the game off the pitch. It's a radical act to even discuss doing something like this, but I think there are valid reasons.

Your point about fighting for one goal is absolutely fantastic in principle, but in reality there's a bunch of useless, toothless organizations, t-shirts and slogans. It's nice, and it's very pretty, but if there is a real feeling of discontent, stronger action is needed.

I still think the FA being able to fine Rio for the choc ice thing and being almost certain to fine him for (hypothetically) saying that he thinks the FA are a joke and not committed to combatting racism in any real form is insanity. Absolute insanity. But that's something of a tangent.
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Offline Not Bob

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #60 on: October 23, 2012, 07:00:50 pm »
I don't think this will actually form to be a real 'FA'. It will, hopefully, put enough pressure to actually combat racism instead of handing out t-shirts.

Offline Sindri

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #61 on: October 23, 2012, 07:05:36 pm »
So let me get this straight, the answer to racism is segregation?

And who exactly is gonna "judge" who is black enough to join the association? If you are half white,half black can you join? What about non sub saharan africans, are they black or not and due they qualify?


something needs to be done about racism in the game, I just dont see how creating a separate entity for minoritys is gonna help, but who knows, maybe Im wrong, then again maybe they will just break away completly from the league and start a black league like the old negro leagues that existed in the states.

Offline HighSix

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #62 on: October 23, 2012, 07:12:34 pm »
So let me get this straight, the answer to racism is segregation?

And who exactly is gonna "judge" who is black enough to join the association? If you are half white,half black can you join? What about non sub saharan africans, are they black or not and due they qualify?


something needs to be done about racism in the game, I just dont see how creating a separate entity for minoritys is gonna help, but who knows, maybe Im wrong, then again maybe they will just break away completly from the league and start a black league like the old negro leagues that existed in the states.

I have not read all the news articles on it but is it not just a group like other professions or university have? The guy speaking about is was himself head of the black lawyers group. I imagine the group would not replace the PFA but the 'Kick it out' group by giving a more profound message & offering support / advise to its members who have suffered racism be by the crowd or players.

Offline Sindri

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #63 on: October 23, 2012, 07:14:22 pm »
I have not read all the news articles on it but is it not just a group like other professions or university have? The guy speaking about is was himself head of the black lawyers group. I imagine the group would not replace the PFA but the 'Kick it out' group by giving a more profound message & offering support / advise to its members who have suffered racism be by the crowd or players.
Yeah maybe your right. I just always believed the best way to tackle racism was unity. But yeah Kick it out hasnt worked so maybe this will...

Offline stevo7

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #64 on: October 23, 2012, 07:18:06 pm »
I feel sorry for young black players getting used as a political football for others who careers are soon ending.
As someone said else said its an irony that an answer to racism is a 'blacks' only union.
theres a couple of media whore's driving this, and I hope common sense fucks them off.

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #65 on: October 23, 2012, 07:25:06 pm »
The problem is that there is a perceived (IMO legitmately) imbalance in the number of black players and the number of black people in the game off the pitch. It's a radical act to even discuss doing something like this, but I think there are valid reasons.

Out of interest, which black person has attempted and failed to become a member of the FA or anything representing football higher than playing/managing and failed to be picked purely because of their skin colour and not due to being inadequate for the job?

Whilst I agree that there may not be enough (should it matter what race they are?) black people in high places with regards to football, they shouldnt just be picked due to their skin colour.

Offline Big Red Richie

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #66 on: October 23, 2012, 07:28:19 pm »
The problem is that there is a perceived (IMO legitmately) imbalance in the number of black players and the number of black people in the game off the pitch. It's a radical act to even discuss doing something like this, but I think there are valid reasons.

Your point about fighting for one goal is absolutely fantastic in principle, but in reality there's a bunch of useless, toothless organizations, t-shirts and slogans. It's nice, and it's very pretty, but if there is a real feeling of discontent, stronger action is needed.

I still think the FA being able to fine Rio for the choc ice thing and being almost certain to fine him for (hypothetically) saying that he thinks the FA are a joke and not committed to combatting racism in any real form is insanity. Absolute insanity. But that's something of a tangent.
Fair comment.   I happen to disagree with you regarding a seperate association, but fair comment all the same. We'll agree to disagree on that point.

As I've stated previously, both in this thread and elsewhere.

I do believe that most if not all of the issues within football stem from a lack of leadership at the top of the game.

The F.A. lost it's way, and most of it's credibility a long time ago, and I mean on a lot of things, and not just the issues surrounding racism, of the last year or so.

You are right regarding the F.A. and it's lack of ethnic minorities within it's organisation as a whole, and more visibly it's positions of power.

I do think though that the issues involved are wider ranging than just along racial lines alone.

I can appreciate that we are talking about race, and race related topics because thats what this story is about, and thats probably the topic that has bubbled to the surface the most over the last twelve months, but I think there's a bigger picture regarding the powers that be putting their own houses in order, than just the racism issue alone.

There is a wider point about discrimination of all kinds that needs stamping out.  Both from the PFA calling their own members to account, and having a wider ranging charter for it's members to show respect to all of it's other members on ths pitch.

In this respect, I feel that the PFA, again, have lost their way and need a stronger stance, and leadership to force ALL players to adhere to the charter they laid down as being a member.

Strong leadership will inevitably mean a strong organisation.  The piss-poor leaders they have now, have, indirectly, caused the current situation to arise.

The same goes for the F.A. They talk a good game, but don't follow the mealy-mouthed words with stronger actions. Both in terms of players, managers, or what is happening on the terraces, and the wider game as a whole.

The likes of The KIO campaign, are nothing more than window dressing for the F.A.     A chance to say, "look!  Look at us, arn't we great for doing something".    When the reality is, if they were strong, and led from the top, there would probably be no need for such initiatives and campaigns in the first place, as all forms of discrimination and prejudice should and would of been clamped down on, and strangled at birth.  Funnily enough, starting within their own organisation.

We are now, where we are.   With a threat of a potential breakaway association about to form a schism in the middle of the game, and the F.A., PFA and others running scared of not doing anything, and doing everything in their power to bend over backwards to placate all parties.

A compromise is never a good solution to solving any problem.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 07:35:50 pm by Big Red Richie »

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #67 on: October 23, 2012, 07:32:22 pm »
Not sure if you are joking but isn't that exactly what the FA is?

does Brendan Batson work for the FA or the Players Union,?

 your comment  is a bit like saying they are all middle or upper class as well for me.
If you want to change the make up of the FA it needs to start with the ground roots at county level and then get a voting strength to make things happen if they need to alter anything.
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Offline sinnermichael

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #68 on: October 23, 2012, 07:34:02 pm »
We need a separate tunnel at Anfield for Raheem Sterling. Equality and all that. Ooh separate buses would work too. Oh no wait, now we're in America circa 1955.

Offline GODS LEFT BOOT

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #69 on: October 23, 2012, 07:55:34 pm »
Self indulgent nonsense - if they must do it there is no need for the word ' black' to appear in the name of the group... divided we fall

This will make things worse

You cant win a war on racism anymore than a war on terror - there will always be the odd idiot, and now when they open their gob we will have a has been or never was telling us how awful things are - and that will not match up to what most people see.
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Offline ghost1359

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #70 on: October 23, 2012, 08:01:26 pm »


How are they supposed to climb the ladder when there are very, very few opportunities afforded to black managers?

I suppose your response now will be 'maybe black people just don't want to be football managers?'

I remember Paul Ince speaking out about how difficult he found trying to get into management but as always people just shrugged it off saying it was just because he was shit & it was nothing to do with the colour of his skin........where are all the other black managers? I can think of Houghton off the top of my head, that's it
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Offline Hazell

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #71 on: October 23, 2012, 08:02:29 pm »
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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #72 on: October 23, 2012, 08:11:30 pm »
IMHO the game isn't committed to stamping out racism. Wearing a t-shirt every once in a blue moon and giving out token fines now and again does nothing. The games governing bodies from top to bottom need to be dishing out punishments with the highest severity. One person makes a racist comment in a ground then ban them, if a group does it then it's a home game behind closed doors. Instead they dish out minuscule fines in the hope of not upsetting the powers that be in a federation that may give them a big back hander one day to host a major championship or final.

Offline chris18lfc

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #73 on: October 23, 2012, 08:12:48 pm »
How are they supposed to climb the ladder when there are very, very few opportunities afforded to black managers?

I suppose your response now will be 'maybe black people just don't want to be football managers?'

I remember Paul Ince speaking out about how difficult he found trying to get into management but as always people just shrugged it off saying it was just because he was shit & it was nothing to do with the colour of his skin........where are all the other black managers? I can think of Houghton off the top of my head, that's it

How do you know there are very few opportunities afforded to (specifically) black managers and how do you know that is because they're black?

Paul Ince has his opinion. Here is another managers opinion;

Keith Curle, the manager of Notts County and one of only five black managers in the professional game. "I have not seen many ethnic players on the courses I have been on in the last two years. If you want to become a manager, then give yourself a chance. If you don't want to go on the courses, then moan about not getting jobs, well, probably the reason you haven't got a job is you haven't been on the courses."

And David James (who is doing his coaching courses);

"I think it is whether you are good enough. Look at Chris Hughton, he's managed three clubs and been decent, there have been others who weren't good enough."

Offline jed the red

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #74 on: October 23, 2012, 08:15:11 pm »
How are they supposed to climb the ladder when there are very, very few opportunities afforded to black managers?

I suppose your response now will be 'maybe black people just don't want to be football managers?'

I remember Paul Ince speaking out about how difficult he found trying to get into management but as always people just shrugged it off saying it was just because he was shit & it was nothing to do with the colour of his skin........where are all the other black managers? I can think of Houghton off the top of my head, that's it

But Ince was shit, when I think of Paul Ince as a manager I don't think "he is black and shit" I just think "he was shit!" his colour doesnt come into it, the fact he wasn't a good manager does.

As for the fact that there are very few black managers, are you suggesting that in 2012 people are being denied the chance to progress in their chosen profession due to the colour of their skin?

Offline ghost1359

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #75 on: October 23, 2012, 08:17:07 pm »
As for the fact that there are very few black managers, are you suggesting that in 2012 people are being denied the chance to progress in their chosen profession due to the colour of their skin?

Absolutely, I don't think it's widespread by any means but definitely happens.
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Offline MichaelA

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #76 on: October 23, 2012, 08:21:31 pm »
I don't think this will actually form to be a real 'FA'. It will, hopefully, put enough pressure to actually combat racism instead of handing out t-shirts.

I think this is close to the truth. People like Ferdinand are quite rightly disillusioned with the PL, FA & PFA who have sat on their fat white arses and ignored overt racist incidents happening on their watch. Kick it Out began with good intentions but you need more than a slogan and a few t-shirts to change attitudes.

Offline jed the red

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #77 on: October 23, 2012, 08:22:07 pm »
Absolutely, I don't think it's widespread by any means but definitely happens.

How do you know there are very few opportunities afforded to (specifically) black managers and how do you know that is because they're black?

Paul Ince has his opinion. Here is another managers opinion;

Keith Curle, the manager of Notts County and one of only five black managers in the professional game. "I have not seen many ethnic players on the courses I have been on in the last two years. If you want to become a manager, then give yourself a chance. If you don't want to go on the courses, then moan about not getting jobs, well, probably the reason you haven't got a job is you haven't been on the courses."

And David James (who is doing his coaching courses);

"I think it is whether you are good enough. Look at Chris Hughton, he's managed three clubs and been decent, there have been others who weren't good enough."

Is there any way we can find out how many black people have applied for these courses and been accepted in the last ten years?


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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #78 on: October 23, 2012, 08:29:30 pm »
does Brendan Batson work for the FA or the Players Union,?

 your comment  is a bit like saying they are all middle or upper class as well for me.
If you want to change the make up of the FA it needs to start with the ground roots at county level and then get a voting strength to make things happen if they need to alter anything.

But the truth is the FA is an organisation run by White people. Whilst some in there might sympathise their views will always be from a white perspective. The way I see it is this. If the next world cup was held in Serbia would the FA have the balls to boycott it. The answer is no way. Far too much money to lose. However a black players organisation may tell their members to boycott Serbia and those that feel strongly enough might be up for it. The reason its coming to this is that Fifa are too spineless to do anything about racism and what happened to John Terry stinks of protecting our own, even his court case was put off till after the euros. Whilst we live in a country which is far more multicultural and accepting then most there is large amounts of what I would call hidden racism. Infact you only need to look on things like Youtube or see the campaign of hate Anton Ferdinand or Stan Collymore had to put up with on Twitter and you can see that racism is very much alive and well in the UK. Its not as obvious because everyone feels its not the done thing in public anymore but its still prevalent when people feel comfortable in their surroundings.

So personally I am in agreement.
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Offline givemekaliber

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Re: "Black Footballers' Association"
« Reply #79 on: October 23, 2012, 08:39:48 pm »
It'll never happen.
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