Author Topic: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)  (Read 4157 times)

Offline Sangria

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #40 on: April 3, 2024, 06:29:59 pm »
Can't say I've heard any pilots from that age but he sounds like I'd expect, he has got better as a character over time.

In the book, he's the premier pilot of the age among the Protestant nations, having served with numerous countries including Catholic ones (as an impressed employee who got his share, as skilled pilots were prized), and having spent a dozen years in a centralised pilot/shipwright academy where he'd have mixed with people from all over England. The character would probably empathise with Jarvis's assertion that he doesn't belong anywhere.
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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #41 on: April 3, 2024, 06:39:58 pm »
In the book, he's the premier pilot of the age among the Protestant nations, having served with numerous countries including Catholic ones (as an impressed employee who got his share, as skilled pilots were prized), and having spent a dozen years in a centralised pilot/shipwright academy where he'd have mixed with people from all over England. The character would probably empathise with Jarvis's assertion that he doesn't belong anywhere.

Interesting, his character in the series doesn't seem that level gravitas, like he's some average sailor.

Offline Sangria

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #42 on: April 3, 2024, 07:17:29 pm »
Interesting, his character in the series doesn't seem that level gravitas, like he's some average sailor.

You don't get opportunity after opportunity to talk about his history. There is one event in the book which proved his gravitas, and it's also in the show, albeit with less capacity for explaining the reasoning. That's when Rodrigues is washed overboard and Blackthorne takes over and takes the ship to safety, when all the Japanese aboard were resigned to the ship being lost with all hands. Rodrigues later admits he'd have headed into the open sea and probably lost the ship, whereas Blackthorne, after taking over, went against Rodrigues's orders and aimed for and achieved the bay. After that, Yabu and Hiromatsu recognised Blackthorne's worth as a valuable figure in his own right.

One of the most underrated figures in the story is the priest in the prison, who was the reason why Toranaga sent Blackthorne there. Toranaga recognised Blackthorne's hunger for survival and his opposition to the Christian establishment in Japan, and sent Blackthorne to the prison with the implied threat of execution but with the opportunity to sweat information out of the priest, whom Toranaga probably viewed as the more valuable of the two. After the Catholics tried to murder Blackthorne in prison, Toranaga brought him out in his usual fashion, and later tried to bring the priest out as well. Unfortunately, the latter mistook his exit as the long awaited order for execution, and died from a heart attack, which left Blackthorne as Toranaga's only anti-Jesuit western asset on scene.
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Offline newterp

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #43 on: April 3, 2024, 10:22:14 pm »
The last episode - i.e. last week (not this week) - was a bit slow and plodding. good back story though. Need to watch this week's episode tonight.

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #44 on: April 3, 2024, 11:59:21 pm »
In the book, he's the premier pilot of the age among the Protestant nations, having served with numerous countries including Catholic ones (as an impressed employee who got his share, as skilled pilots were prized), and having spent a dozen years in a centralised pilot/shipwright academy where he'd have mixed with people from all over England. The character would probably empathise with Jarvis's assertion that he doesn't belong anywhere.

The book is brilliant.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #45 on: April 4, 2024, 12:06:52 am »
The book is brilliant.

I ordered it earlier, won't touch it until the show's finished though.
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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #46 on: April 4, 2024, 08:22:32 am »
I ordered it earlier, won't touch it until the show's finished though.

I read it in the 80s when the first show came out. I have read King Rat and Tai Pan as well.
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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #47 on: April 4, 2024, 12:44:36 pm »
You don't get opportunity after opportunity to talk about his history. There is one event in the book which proved his gravitas, and it's also in the show, albeit with less capacity for explaining the reasoning. That's when Rodrigues is washed overboard and Blackthorne takes over and takes the ship to safety, when all the Japanese aboard were resigned to the ship being lost with all hands. Rodrigues later admits he'd have headed into the open sea and probably lost the ship, whereas Blackthorne, after taking over, went against Rodrigues's orders and aimed for and achieved the bay. After that, Yabu and Hiromatsu recognised Blackthorne's worth as a valuable figure in his own right.

One of the most underrated figures in the story is the priest in the prison, who was the reason why Toranaga sent Blackthorne there. Toranaga recognised Blackthorne's hunger for survival and his opposition to the Christian establishment in Japan, and sent Blackthorne to the prison with the implied threat of execution but with the opportunity to sweat information out of the priest, whom Toranaga probably viewed as the more valuable of the two. After the Catholics tried to murder Blackthorne in prison, Toranaga brought him out in his usual fashion, and later tried to bring the priest out as well. Unfortunately, the latter mistook his exit as the long awaited order for execution, and died from a heart attack, which left Blackthorne as Toranaga's only anti-Jesuit western asset on scene.

Sounds like I need to read the book, my point was more if he was at the elevated status you mention he doesn't act like that, he seems a bit thick especially early on. Yes he shows his ability as a pilot but as a person he just seems overly difficult and rude, I expect that's meant to show his personality but I don't think it translates well early on. It gets better, mainly after he gets some pillow time ;)

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #48 on: April 4, 2024, 02:37:24 pm »
last ep
Spoiler
glad that kid's dead though. absolute waste of screen time
[close]
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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #49 on: April 4, 2024, 02:38:30 pm »
We all need a bit of pillow time to calm us down once in a while.

I watched a couple of interviews with Cosmo Jarvis. And it turns out he’s a little befuddled looking in real life.

Offline newterp

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #50 on: April 4, 2024, 03:23:45 pm »
last ep
Spoiler
glad that kid's dead though. absolute waste of screen time
[close]

haha.

Offline newterp

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #51 on: April 4, 2024, 03:24:26 pm »
I'm kind of glad I haven't gotten to the book (yet - soon though).

Last night's episode caught me off guard!

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #52 on: April 4, 2024, 04:01:43 pm »
We all need a bit of pillow time to calm us down once in a while.

I watched a couple of interviews with Cosmo Jarvis. And it turns out he’s a little befuddled looking in real life.

You offering your services in the half time thread meady?

Offline Gili Gulu

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #53 on: April 4, 2024, 06:11:25 pm »
We all need a bit of pillow time to calm us down once in a while.

I watched a couple of interviews with Cosmo Jarvis. And it turns out he’s a little befuddled looking in real life.

I really don't know what the issue with the actor playing Blackthorne.
I think he's been very good.

He's doing a slightly mannered accent as he's in a period piece.
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Offline UntouchableLuis

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #54 on: April 4, 2024, 07:10:19 pm »
Really liking this 3 episodes in. Never read the book. It is one of them you really need to concentrate for or you can get easily lost. Also found some of it to be too dark (literally, not metaphorically) but might be my telly.
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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #55 on: April 4, 2024, 07:22:45 pm »
I'm kind of glad I haven't gotten to the book (yet - soon though).

Last night's episode caught me off guard!

Bits of it differed from the book apparently - which I've just started reading

Namely
Spoiler
soft lad splitting his head open
[close]

Makes me wonder if they'll change the ending too - could go either way. I had that spoiled for me, but not in a way that I can say the book ending is good or bad. I mean... it sounds explosive

It's been ages since I watched a series "live" with full faith in them to stick the landing

Offline RedDeadRejection

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #56 on: April 4, 2024, 10:52:08 pm »
Blackthorne storming off seemed a bit staged? Wonder whether it's a plan, or would that be considered dishonourable?
« Last Edit: April 4, 2024, 10:57:11 pm by RedDeadRejection »

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #57 on: April 5, 2024, 08:29:29 am »
Can't say I've heard any pilots from that age but he sounds like I'd expect, he has got better as a character over time.

That’s for sure.

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #58 on: April 5, 2024, 03:33:20 pm »
Last episode was quality. God knows what happens next though.

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #59 on: April 5, 2024, 03:40:46 pm »
Last episode was quality. God knows what happens next though.

Crimson Sky of course.

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #60 on: April 6, 2024, 04:31:45 pm »
Blackthorne storming off seemed a bit staged? Wonder whether it's a plan, or would that be considered dishonourable?

Somethings a-brewing definitely.

Spoiler
Toranaga's conversation with Gin suggested he's cunning to just surrender himself like that. Wouldn't be surprised if he got Blackthorne to storm off in a huff. His idiotic hotheaded son might have ruined things though.
[close]
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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #61 on: April 6, 2024, 04:50:55 pm »
Somethings a-brewing definitely.

Spoiler
Toranaga's conversation with Gin suggested he's cunning to just surrender himself like that. Wouldn't be surprised if he got Blackthorne to storm off in a huff. His idiotic hotheaded son might have ruined things though.
[close]

This was my exact guess!

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #62 on: April 6, 2024, 06:27:07 pm »
Crimson Sky of course.
They have enough of an army to do that?

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #63 on: April 6, 2024, 06:28:37 pm »
Not touched their air force yet have they ?
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #64 on: April 6, 2024, 06:30:34 pm »
Not touched their air force yet have they ?

We saw it crash and burn a few episodes ago.
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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #65 on: April 6, 2024, 06:32:44 pm »
Not touched their air force yet have they ?

Toranaga's falcons, not to be under-rated...
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Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #66 on: April 6, 2024, 06:33:18 pm »
Toranaga's falcons, not to be under-rated...
Or the Pigeons that send messages?

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #67 on: April 6, 2024, 06:50:53 pm »
They have enough of an army to do that?

Well no-one knows exactly what Crimson Sky is.. There is misdirection around misdirection here.

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #68 on: April 6, 2024, 07:46:58 pm »
Well no-one knows exactly what Crimson Sky is.. There is misdirection around misdirection here.

Which was one of the key subplots in the book that I think the tv series is doing particularly well with...
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Offline Gili Gulu

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #69 on: April 8, 2024, 06:55:59 pm »
Well no-one knows exactly what Crimson Sky is.. There is misdirection around misdirection here.
Yes he's publicly declared that it's
Spoiler
a rush assault on Osaka, in front of vassals he doesn't trust
[close]
So I think that's probably a misdirection.

I don't believe for an instant that
Spoiler
Blackthorne storming out was real
[close]
.

They have enough of an army to do that?

Spoiler
I think Toranaga has enough troops to take on Ishido if the Christian Busho's armies switch sides
[close]
« Last Edit: April 8, 2024, 06:59:42 pm by Gili Gulu »
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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #70 on: April 8, 2024, 10:51:19 pm »
I'm waiting for this to finish before I binge it, I don't think I've been this excited for a show in a long time, trailers have made it seem like the show of the last few years.

Offline Gili Gulu

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #71 on: April 9, 2024, 12:21:22 pm »
Just watched episode 8, was excellent, and very intense.

The episode should be available now from the "usual sources"

I'm waiting for this to finish before I binge it, I don't think I've been this excited for a show in a long time, trailers have made it seem like the show of the last few years.

I wish I'd done that now, probably would have zoomed through in two days of 5 episodes each.

DO NOT search for Shogun in Youtube. One of the first videos that came up on my feed had a major spoiler for this latest episode in the title.
« Last Edit: April 9, 2024, 12:27:29 pm by Gili Gulu »
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Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #72 on: April 9, 2024, 10:00:39 pm »
WHAT AN EPISODE! Only two left? :(

Offline RedDeadRejection

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #73 on: April 10, 2024, 01:25:31 am »
Outstanding TV.

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #74 on: April 10, 2024, 11:49:46 am »
Show is varying from the novel, especially in the fates of certain characters, but is capturing the spirit of the book very, very well.

A very powerful episode, great stuff...
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #75 on: April 10, 2024, 01:44:29 pm »
Show is varying from the novel, especially in the fates of certain characters, but is capturing the spirit of the book very, very well.

A very powerful episode, great stuff...

I anticipate something that would be a departure from the source (the novel), but which would reflect the source source (the history Shogun is based on).

Novel Toranaga is rather more smug than show Toranaga. Although the Edo neighbours were hilarious.
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Offline newterp

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #76 on: April 11, 2024, 01:47:14 am »
Toranaga is a bad leader. Like Ten Hag.

(I'm kidding - but that was rough ...)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2024, 01:50:17 am by newterp »

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #77 on: April 12, 2024, 05:55:21 pm »
Only got on this today, watched all 8 episodes this week, loved it.  Wish I'd realised there are two more though, I should have waited for all 10

I'll have to read the book now.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2024, 05:57:01 pm by rob1966 »
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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #78 on: April 12, 2024, 06:31:12 pm »
I started listening to the audiobook on my commute this week. In the Prologue and first chapter alone they revealed who sent Blackthorne, along with his backstory. They have made both quite a mystery in this TV show and I felt insta-spoiled!

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Re: Shogun (TV Mini Series 2024)
« Reply #79 on: April 12, 2024, 07:19:55 pm »
I started listening to the audiobook on my commute this week. In the Prologue and first chapter alone they revealed who sent Blackthorne, along with his backstory. They have made both quite a mystery in this TV show and I felt insta-spoiled!

Dutch entrepreneurs looking for a route into the Portuguese empire?
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