Topic: Main Stand Expansion (U/C) Pics and Progress in here

[Twelfth Man]

This new main stand is going to be a whopper 

Can't wait! Liverpool looks beautiful too.

[paulrazor]

This new main stand is going to be a whopper 

that is a monster

[corbyRed]

is that the Shankly Gates at the entrance to the centenary car park on that pic?
facing the exit as you walk out of the park.

[CraigDS]

is that the Shankly Gates at the entrance to the centenary car park on that pic?
facing the exit as you walk out of the park.

Hard to say from that pic as there are two gates at that end anyway in those locations.

[Alan_X]

is that the Shankly Gates at the entrance to the centenary car park on that pic?
facing the exit as you walk out of the park.

I don't think the Shankly gates would go there.

[only6times]

This new main stand is going to be a whopper 

Be full of them too.

[corbyRed]

I don't think the Shankly gates would go there.

it will be the only side of the ground that is fenced in when work is complete so is a logical location. I'm sure I read that the fencing and gates at the back at the kop would come down eventually to open the area up properly

[Alan_X]

it will be the only side of the ground that is fenced in when work is complete so is a logical location. I'm sure I read that the fencing and gates at the back at the kop would come down eventually to open the area up properly

You're right - The Bob Paisley and the Shankly gates will be located there.

Download drawing 102 here:

http://northgate.liverpool.gov.uk/DocumentExplorer/Application/folderview.aspx?type=MVMPRD_DC_PLANAPP&key=898733

[Jonny5]

in that picture it looks like AR is closed after phase one is finished, is that right or is it open again on non match days.

[YNWAArkAngel]

It wouldn't work. The a Centenary was developed on the same principles of the new Main Stand but the old Kemlyn and the current Main stand are completely different. You'd have to demolish the whole of the Centenary (Kemlyn) to re-build the lower tier (old Kemlyn Road) but then the new lower tier would have to match the existing Main Stand (12,000+ capacity) which you can't do because it would be covered by new guidance and regulations so would be much larger for the same capacity.

And the houses behind are occupied so it's no on all accounts.

i know all that and aware of the houses all am just asking to photoshop an same main stand over the centenary stand of how it would have look as u never know it could happen in 20 30 year time would build same stand who know....

[sminp]

i know all that and aware of the houses all am just asking to photoshop an same main stand over the centenary stand of how it would have look as u never know it could happen in 20 30 year time would build same stand who know....

It's not just the houses mate. The lower tier would need knocking down and rebuilding too so that it had the same design as the current Main Stand. Building that isn't possible due to regulations and the chances that those regulations will be relaxed to that extent in our lifetime are practically zero

[Alan_X]

It's not just the houses mate. The lower tier would need knocking down and rebuilding too so that it had the same design as the current Main Stand. Building that isn't possible due to regulations and the chances that those regulations will be relaxed to that extent in our lifetime are practically zero

Exactly. The Centenary's lower tier is the old Kemlyn Road stand (6,800) and the Upper Centenary (4,950) was built behind to more modern regs and guidance. As a result the capacity of the whole Centenary is 'only' 11,762 despite being much larger physically than the existing Main Stand which has a capacity of 12,277.

You could build a brand new stand with the same scale as the refurbished Main Stand but with an all new build the capacity would not be any where near the capacity of the completed Main Stand. Maybe an extra 3-4,000 for a huge investment.

You could keep the Centenary and maybe add a small additional tier for a couple of thousand extra but it would need a new roof structure and the angles and sight lines would be shite.

In other words - PhotoShop as much as you like but it's a pointless exercise. Any capacity over the current two phases would be more likely to come from corner infills but that would mean a whole new roof structure.

[redgriffin73]

This new main stand is going to be a whopper 

Love this picture.

[The Lord Admiral]

They aren't, the land is being cleared for housing. I've seen it from the ground as I've walked past but from higher up it's amazing just how much has been knocked down.

A lot of those to the left of the corner between the Kop and Centenary are boarded up too so not occupied in the most part.

We'd be mad not to be floating the possibility at the council don't you think Craig? The land to do the Kop is pretty much there for the taking.

I've been thinking about the issue of not being able to charge as much for Kop tickets, in the same way you can charge the earth for corporates in the Main stand. Thinking about it I'm not sure it's true. With a redeveloped Kop I'd have thought you could have amazing facilities in there, with the added kudos of having a Kop ticket. Now the last thing I want is a Kop full of corporates or day trippers, but I think you could still have it full of young noisy locals on cheap tickets and still milk the history and the glory of it. You could build it in to tours as well the way they do at the Nou camp and get extra revenue that way.

I have no proof whatsoever, but thinking about it FSG must be on to this already. They're not daft and they've really made Fenway Park work. There's the issue of the transport and the WBR but neither of these are insurmountable.

[CraigDS]

I've no doubt they'd of looked at it for sure, it would no doubt of made up a fairly large chunk of any feasibility study to determine if to stay at Anfield or build a new stadium.

If it was simple, or worth the amount of hassle they determined it would take, then I think we'd be seeing it happening. The fact it isn't probably hints that there is a lot more too it than the land being available and just rerouting part of the road.

[The Lord Admiral]

I've no doubt they'd of looked at it for sure, it would no doubt of made up a fairly large chunk of any feasibility study to determine if to stay at Anfield or build a new stadium.

If it was simple, or worth the amount of hassle they determined it would take, then I think we'd be seeing it happening. The fact it isn't probably hints that there is a lot more too it than the land being available and just rerouting part of the road.

Agreed. Could be loads of things. A wait and see in terms of demand, like they've already said with the ARE. Maybe that puts it too far into the future due to an exit strategy.

The ideal would be to keep that land available somehow. Presumably that in itself wouldn't be hugely difficult.

[Alan_X]

With a redeveloped Kop I'd have thought you could have amazing facilities in there, with the added kudos of having a Kop ticket. Now the last thing I want is a Kop full of corporates or day trippers, but I think you could still have it full of young noisy locals on cheap tickets and still milk the history and the glory of it. You could build it in to tours as well the way they do at the Nou camp and get extra revenue that way...

Just no. The Kop should never be sold as an experience. It should be the most basic stand with the cheapest tickets. Add some toilets and improve the bars if necessary but redevelop it and you'd have to up the ticket prices. I think FSG would have looked at it and realised it's the wrong thing to do. They clearly understand that the premium seats should be at the sides as Phase 2 (Annie Road) is all general admission with no 'amazing facilities' just good facilities appropriate to the type of ticket. All the new 'amazing facilities' are in the new Main Stand.

[Farman]

^Just on this...When I visited Old Trafford last season I was shocked to see a cordoned-off area of maybe 2-3000 seats slap bang in the middle of the Stretford End, for what looked like upholstered corporate seats. I couldn't believe I'd never known that, or that any objecting United fans' voices were not loud enough to reach my ears. It goes without saying that I don't like that lot, but it made me a little sick to think that any remaining 'soul' had surely been ripped out of the Stretford End...I don't know this because I haven't looked it up, but I imagine them selling tickets as the 'Stretford End Experience', which of course is anything but. To go with their rather clever marketing of the crappiest part of the ground - corners - as 'quadrant seats'.

Come to think of it, you don't really hear commentators talking about the 'Stretford End' or 'Shed End' anywhere near as much as the Kop these days, do you? They are completely different things to what they once were. Whilst the Kop is a watered down version of what it once was, it is still identifiable as the Kop. I would hate to think that anything would be voluntarily done to it to lose any more of its essence.

[The Lord Admiral]

Just no. The Kop should never be sold as an experience. It should be the most basic stand with the cheapest tickets. Add some toilets and improve the bars if necessary but redevelop it and you'd have to up the ticket prices. I think FSG would have looked at it and realised it's the wrong thing to do. They clearly understand that the premium seats should be at the sides as Phase 2 (Annie Road) is all general admission with no 'amazing facilities' just good facilities appropriate to the type of ticket. All the new 'amazing facilities' are in the new Main Stand.

^Just on this...When I visited Old Trafford last season I was shocked to see a cordoned-off area of maybe 2-3000 seats slap bang in the middle of the Stretford End, for what looked like upholstered corporate seats. I couldn't believe I'd never known that, or that any objecting United fans' voices were not loud enough to reach my ears. It goes without saying that I don't like that lot, but it made me a little sick to think that any remaining 'soul' had surely been ripped out of the Stretford End...I don't know this because I haven't looked it up, but I imagine them selling tickets as the 'Stretford End Experience', which of course is anything but. To go with their rather clever marketing of the crappiest part of the ground - corners - as 'quadrant seats'.

Come to think of it, you don't really hear commentators talking about the 'Stretford End' or 'Shed End' anywhere near as much as the Kop these days, do you? They are completely different things to what they once were. Whilst the Kop is a watered down version of what it once was, it is still identifiable as the Kop. I would hate to think that anything would be voluntarily done to it to lose any more of its essence.

I agree with you both to a large extent. But then how do we move forward from where we are? Part of where we find ourselves is through not developing the ground in the way Utd did in the 90's. We can probably learn from what they did (and Arsenal to an extent). We're going to be competing with City, Arsenal both with new grounds, Spurs are going to do one too. The old Kop, apart from special occasions is all but dead. How do we as a club look towards making it grander, bigger, more special than it is now.

[Alan_X]

I agree with you both to a large extent. But then how do we move forward from where we are? Part of where we find ourselves is through not developing the ground in the way Utd did in the 90's. We can probably learn from what they did (and Arsenal to an extent). We're going to be competing with City, Arsenal both with new grounds, Spurs are going to do one too. The old Kop, apart from special occasions is all but dead. How do we as a club look towards making it grander, bigger, more special than it is now.

Arsenal's capacity is 60,000 with no scope for expansion. Spurs will be a bit smaller than Anfield with no scope for expansion, City similar. The only bigger ground is Old Trafford where the capacity was supported by more than twenty years of sustained success on the pitch. What's the evidence we'll need to go bigger?

And the atmosphere in the Kop will not be improved by adding more seats - it's probably not what it was because there are too many whoppers and day trippers. Another two thousand day trippers won't help. The Kop is big enough and would be loud enough if the right people were on it. If we can't get a decent sound out of 13,000 people on a single tier in one of the world's iconic stadium no amount of fucking around with it will make it any better.

[1club1loveLFC]

Love this picture.

Enjoy looking at it on a bigger scale. Check the link below as some of you might find it beneficial when wanting to know where Shanks gates are going to be placed...

http://www.virtual-planit.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/anfield_dusk_2000.jpg

[1club1loveLFC]

Close up image

[Cork Red]

In the unlikely event that we'll ever need a greater capacity than 59,000 (look up how few clubs have a capacity significantly greater than this, even the Italian clubs are abandoning their huge municipal stadiums in favour of smaller more profitable venues e.g. Juventus), then it is likely that we'd have to leave Anfield, not just the stadium but the area.  It is highly unlikely that any sane planner would give planning permission for a new 75,000 seater stadium in a residential area with poor public transport and parking facilities.

Old Trafford was built on an industrial state with good local transport links.  It benefited from the development of the Manchester tram network.  Plus the club was able to buy up cheap distressed industrial units to expand the stadium into and on which to build huge car parks.  They have also most likely reached their maximum capacity as the train line behind their main stand makes the cost of redeveloping it prohibitive in the same way that developing the Kop and the Centenery would be cost prohibitive.

If we can reach 59,000 we'll be doing well.  More fans will be able to see the game and we'll maximise the realistic revenue that can be achieved from matchday income.  We'll never be able to match ManU or the london clubs for matchday revenue; not without pricing out the kind of fan that made Anfield what it is in any case, which would defeat the purpose.

[Brian Blessed]

What's with the giant Liverbird in the corner there?

[CraigDS]

What's with the giant Liverbird in the corner there?

Presumably it's one of the options for decorating the edge of the stand where it comes in to meet the edge of the Kop.

[redprodigal]

I agree with you both to a large extent. But then how do we move forward from where we are? Part of where we find ourselves is through not developing the ground in the way Utd did in the 90's. We can probably learn from what they did (and Arsenal to an extent). We're going to be competing with City, Arsenal both with new grounds, Spurs are going to do one too. The old Kop, apart from special occasions is all but dead. How do we as a club look towards making it grander, bigger, more special than it is now.

If you make the Kop bigger and grander it will just become more diluted with trippers. Leave it alone.

[BarryCrocker]

If you make the Kop bigger and grander it will just become more diluted with trippers. Leave it alone.

Nonsense.

[Alan_X]

Nonsense.

Why is it nonsense?

[BarryCrocker]

Why is it nonsense?

Where is the basis for a larger Kop being the facilitator for more 'trippers'? And who determines that a'tripper' who's more than likely spend 2k on airfare, plus accommodation, plus merchandise for a once in a life-time experience to hold a scarf above their head and belt out every-tune until they are hoarse is a dilution?

[Redman0151]

Where is the basis for a larger Kop being the facilitator for more 'trippers'? And who determines that a'tripper' who's more than likely spend 2k on airfare, plus accommodation, plus merchandise for a once in a life-time experience to hold a scarf above their head and belt out every-tune until they are hoarse is a dilution?

I think day tripper is a term more used to define the people who come to anfield for the "experience", who don't understand the culture and stand there with their half an half scarf recording half of the game. Not just a blanket term for OOTers.

If somebody has never been to anfield before and knows the words to belt out poor scouser Tommy and liverbird upon my chest then fair play to them.

Would be easy to fix though, sell kop tickets based on past loyalty or sales on the gate, and keep a block for local kids. All moot however as the odds of the kop ever getting expanded are incredibly slim

[McrRed]

Sorry if it's been asked a;ready but are there plans to include a video screen/s?
We were one of the last in the league to get video-advertising hoardings and I always think it's odd we don't get to see replays in the ground. (Love the retro/original scoreboard though)

[Alan_X]

Sorry if it's been asked a;ready but are there plans to include a video screen/s?
We were one of the last in the league to get video-advertising hoardings and I always think it's odd we don't get to see replays in the ground. (Love the retro/original scoreboard though)

I haven't seen one and I hope we don't.

[Garry_LFC]

Sorry if it's been asked a;ready but are there plans to include a video screen/s?
We were one of the last in the league to get video-advertising hoardings and I always think it's odd we don't get to see replays in the ground. (Love the retro/original scoreboard though)

There were plans for them a few years ago but nothing ever materialised. I'd rather not have them personally.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-fc-bid-install-video-3347228

[stueya]

Arsenal's capacity is 60,000 with no scope for expansion. Spurs will be a bit smaller than Anfield with no scope for expansion, City similar. The only bigger ground is Old Trafford where the capacity was supported by more than twenty years of sustained success on the pitch. What's the evidence we'll need to go bigger?

And the atmosphere in the Kop will not be improved by adding more seats - it's probably not what it was because there are too many whoppers and day trippers. Another two thousand day trippers won't help. The Kop is big enough and would be loud enough if the right people were on it. If we can't get a decent sound out of 13,000 people on a single tier in one of the world's iconic stadium no amount of fucking around with it will make it any better.

To be fair Alan it's not really the day trippers that are the problem on the Kop though they are elsewhere in the ground, the problem on the Kop is many of the season ticket holders on there are getting older and less likely to build the atmosphere, they aren't arsed anymore.

On another note Have you heard when the final application is going in the the Annie Rd yet?

[Swissgaz]

On another note Have you heard when the final application is going in the the Annie Rd yet?

Question belongs in this thread.

From the current application.

It is anticipated that the enlarged Main Stand will open at the start of the 2016/17 season. There is currently no programme for the Anfield Road Stand expansion; that development will be subject to further feasibility and financial modelling. Once LFC is satisfied that there is a sound business case to proceed with that part of the development an application for reserved matters for phase 2 (external appearance and landscaping) will be submitted.

Therefore, unlikely in the foreseeable future.

[Alan_X]

Question belongs in this thread.

From the current application.

Therefore, unlikely in the foreseeable future.

That's fairly standard wording when you put in outline planning for a further phase in a planning application. You don't commit to build Phase 2 in the planning application for obvious reasons.

The Annie Road is pretty much designed (Stage C for a fairly straightforward construction) and has outline approval. Massing, capacity, road closures etc are all  in the application. That means it only needs details of the finishes, which the application says will be typically as the Main Stand. As long as there's demand for the Main Stand then Phase 2 will go ahead. You don't spend hundreds of thousands on fees and consultation if you're not intention of building it. The outstanding issue will be the use of the areas above the new concourses which are shown as possibly residential but that's not confirmed.

We had all this during planning for the Main Stand. Two years ago there were threads on here stating categorically that the development would never happen. Why not wait and see?

[Swissgaz]

That's fairly standard wording when you put in outline planning for a further phase in a planning application. You don't commit to build Phase 2 in the planning application for obvious reasons.

The Annie Road is pretty much designed (Stage C for a fairly straightforward construction) and has outline approval. Massing, capacity, road closures etc are all  in the application. That means it only needs details of the finishes, which the application says will be typically as the Main Stand. As long as there's demand for the Main Stand then Phase 2 will go ahead. You don't spend hundreds of thousands on fees and consultation if you're not intention of building it. The outstanding issue will be the use of the areas above the new concourses which are shown as possibly residential but that's not confirmed.

We had all this during planning for the Main Stand. Two years ago there were threads on here stating categorically that the development would never happen. Why not wait and see?

Point of clarification.

I'm not saying that the Anfield Road stand won't be extended, I believe it will as it's a no-brainer.  However, I don't see the final application for the ARE being submitted in the near future.

[andy07]

This thread is degenerating into a lets improve the atmosphere at Anfield thread rather than a Main Stand expansion thread. Suggest we redirect our observations to the appropriate thread.

[redprodigal]

Nonsense.

Rubbish

[Swissgaz]

Rubbish

Is this the word association thread now?