Author Topic: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris  (Read 183092 times)

Offline MichaelA

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1760 on: January 16, 2015, 12:56:35 pm »
At least 3 people taken hostage at post office nr Paris - reports

http://rt.com/news/223347-paris-post-hostage-colombes/

Other sources claiming that it's not terrorism, but "une affaire de cœur"...

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1761 on: January 16, 2015, 01:09:18 pm »
Was it the way they licked their stamps? Was it too sexual for extremists?
Did the stamps have an image of some prophet or other - or perhaps it was a disgruntled customer annoyed at the amount of profit made?
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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1763 on: January 16, 2015, 01:52:08 pm »
Apparently hostages taken at a posy office in Paris now
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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1764 on: January 16, 2015, 01:54:10 pm »
Apparently hostages taken at a posy office in Paris now

*ahem*

At least 3 people taken hostage at post office nr Paris - reports

http://rt.com/news/223347-paris-post-hostage-colombes/

Was it the way they licked their stamps? Was it too sexual for extremists?

Other sources claiming that it's not terrorism, but "une affaire de cœur"...

Did the stamps have an image of some prophet or other - or perhaps it was a disgruntled customer annoyed at the amount of profit made?

Offline KiNki

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1765 on: January 16, 2015, 02:15:51 pm »
It has to be up there with wet bandits style level of stupidity to commit a crime and take hostages in paris in the wake of Charlie hebdo.

Offline RedRush

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1766 on: January 16, 2015, 03:53:36 pm »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/an-open-letter-to-moderat_b_5930764.html?ir=India

An Open Letter to Moderate Muslims
.
.
.
Get out there, and take it back.



Of all the posts that i've read in here so far, I think these two stood out for me. What they ask for is already very, very difficult to achieve and apologists and the political correct drama queens are only making it harder. I want to add the following posts as well:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fathima-imra-nazeer/isis-islam-quran-literalism_b_5737388.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fathima-imra-nazeer/how-to-defeat-isis_b_5871532.html
https://www.facebook.com/MaajidNawazFanPage/photos/a.551104524956817.1073741829.135775283156412/736044739796127/?type=1&theater



Btw, the surveys below are about right for my country:

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/



In this day and age, too many people still want to kill people over their lack of belief, stone adulterers (women mostly due to their position, and basically a more horrible death penalty, as the prescribed size for the rocks are about the size of tangerines, not so quick to kill the first or second hit, but enough to kill within an hour, just in case you didn't already know), chop off hands of thieves (opposing hand and foot for robbers), condone child marriage, beating of women, inequality of the sexes and so on. It is a source of great pride for parents that their children complete reading it at a young age, so apologists please imagine your own child reading children's books with kiddie pictures depicting such atrocities (although to be fair stoning isn't in the Quran, but in the Hadith) slipped in between kiddie pictures of really good harmless stuff to really understand how and why radicals and extremists are really created, sympathized, revered, well-funded or condoned - i.e. too many will take it literally. Those who don't, fear getting labeled as 'bad' muslims.


Oh, and f*ck off political correctness on this one please.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 05:02:46 pm by RedRush »

Offline RedRush

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1767 on: January 16, 2015, 03:58:57 pm »
We have the views on Charlie Hebdo and the solidarity shown all across the world. I never thought it would bring so much people together.
Now, let's look at a Hindu perspective. I have't seen one newspaper in India that has published the Charlie Hebdo cartoon so I am a bit disappointed. But here goes.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/in-maya-the-killer-and-the-killed/article6785735.ece



The article committed mental violence upon me.

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1768 on: January 16, 2015, 04:42:54 pm »

Offline LFCsupporter

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1769 on: January 16, 2015, 06:10:50 pm »
Just as a thought experiment - what cartoon image can you think of that would make it acceptable to kill someone for drawing it?
Glorifying Nazis experimenting on children, making lampshades out of skin and shrinking human heads to be used as tabletop adornments. Not sure it warrants killing, but its close.

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1770 on: January 17, 2015, 12:03:19 am »
Glorifying Nazis experimenting on children, making lampshades out of skin and shrinking human heads to be used as tabletop adornments. Not sure it warrants killing, but its close.

I disagree entirely, it's not even in the same ballpark as "close". Ain't no ballpark, ain't even the same sport.

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1771 on: January 17, 2015, 12:07:48 am »
I disagree entirely, it's not even in the same ballpark as "close". Ain't no ballpark, ain't even the same sport.

Yup. There is literally no cartoon which deserves death. It's a dystopian concept anyway, the idea of trying to dream up something which can get you killed.

Actually, copyright, bitches. Date stamp above.

Offline jooneyisdagod

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1772 on: January 17, 2015, 07:29:18 am »
Full text: Writers' statement on cartoons


A group of 12 writers have put their names to a statement in French weekly newspaper Charlie Hebdo warning against Islamic "totalitarianism". Here is the text in full:


After having overcome fascism, Nazism, and Stalinism, the world now faces a new global totalitarian threat: Islamism.
We, writers, journalists, intellectuals, call for resistance to religious totalitarianism and for the promotion of freedom, equal opportunity and secular values for all.

Recent events, prompted by the publication of drawings of Muhammad in European newspapers, have revealed the necessity of the struggle for these universal values.

This struggle will not be won by arms, but in the ideological field.

It is not a clash of civilisations nor an antagonism between West and East that we are witnessing, but a global struggle that confronts democrats and theocrats.

Like all totalitarian ideologies, Islamism is nurtured by fear and frustration.

Preachers of hatred play on these feelings to build the forces with which they can impose a world where liberty is crushed and inequality reigns.
But we say this, loud and clear: nothing, not even despair, justifies choosing darkness, totalitarianism and hatred.

Islamism is a reactionary ideology that kills equality, freedom and secularism wherever it is present.

Its victory can only lead to a world of injustice and domination: men over women, fundamentalists over others.

On the contrary, we must ensure access to universal rights for the oppressed or those discriminated against.

We reject the "cultural relativism" which implies an acceptance that men and women of Muslim culture are deprived of the right to equality, freedom and secularism in the name of the respect for certain cultures and traditions.

We refuse to renounce our critical spirit out of fear of being accused of "Islamophobia", a wretched concept that confuses criticism of Islam as a religion and stigmatisation of those who believe in it.

We defend the universality of the freedom of expression, so that a critical spirit can exist in every continent, towards each and every maltreatment and dogma.

We appeal to democrats and free spirits in every country that our century may be one of light and not dark.

Signed by:
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Chahla Chafiq
Caroline Fourest
Bernard-Henri Levy
Irshad Manji
Mehdi Mozaffari
Maryam Namazie
Taslima Nasreen
Salman Rushdie
Antoine Sfeir
Philippe Val
Ibn Warraq


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4764730.stm


Well fucking said.


Edit: This was back in 2006 btw but as relevant as ever if not more.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 07:44:29 am by jooneyisdagod »
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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1773 on: January 17, 2015, 04:56:34 pm »
19,000 French Websites Attacked In Retaliation For 'Je Suis Charlie' Marches

France has come under 'unprecedented pressure from hackers since last week's terrorist attacks in Paris.

The head of cyberdefence for the French military said that as many as 19,000 websites had been attacked.

Admiral Arnaud Coustilliere said that thousands of French websites are now under cyber attack - he said as a retaliation for the millions that attended the 'Je Suis Charlie' marches in Paris.

With websites like 20 Minutes, Mediapart, France Info, Le Parisien and L"Express all hit, the attacks ranged from shutting down websites entirely to hacking in and placing symbols associated with jihadist groups on the front pages.

Admiral Coustilliere reports that the victims have ranged from pizza delivery websites to the official sites of military regiments.

The Admiral warned that this was "the first time that a country has been faced with such a large wave".

While the Telegraph reports that France has been hit with over 1000 DDoS attacks in the last 24 hours. To put that into perspective that's a quarter of the attacks that the US receives. While it may not sound like much, the US hosts 30x more websites than France.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01/16/french-websites-attacked-retaliation-for-jesuischarlie-marches_n_6487062.html
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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1774 on: January 17, 2015, 05:44:14 pm »
The Limits of Satire
Tim Parks

What does satire do? What should we expect of it? Recent events in Paris inevitably prompt these questions. In particular, is the kind of satire that Charlie Hebdo has made its trademark—explicit, sometimes obscene images of religious figures (God the father, Son, and Holy Spirit sodomizing each other; Muhammad with a yellow star in his ass)—essentially different from mainstream satire? Is it crucial to Western culture that we be free to produce such images? Do they actually work as satire?

Neither straight journalism nor disengaged art, satire alludes to recognizable contemporary circumstances in a skewed and comic way so as to draw attention to their absurdity. There is mockery but with a noble motive: the desire to bring shame on some person or party behaving wrongly or ignorantly. Its raison d’ȇtre over the long term is to bring about change through ridicule; or if change is too grand an aspiration, we might say that it seeks to give us a fresh perspective on the absurdities and evils we live among, such that we are eager for change.

Since satire has this practical and pragmatic purpose, the criteria for assessing it are fairly simple: if it doesn’t point toward positive change, or encourage people to think in a more enlightened way, it has failed. That doesn’t mean it’s not amusing and well-observed, or even, for some, hilarious, in the way, say, witty mockery of a political enemy can be hilarious and gratifying and can intensify our sense of being morally superior. But as satire it has failed. The worst case is when satire reinforces the state of mind it purports to undercut, polarizes prejudices, and provokes the very behavior it condemns. This appears to be what happened with Charlie Hebdo’s images of Muhammad.

Why so? Crucial to satire is the appeal to supposed “common sense” and a shared moral code. The satirist presents a situation in such a way that it appears grotesque and the reader who, whatever his or her private interests, shares the same cultural background and moral education agrees that it is so. The classic example, perhaps, is Jonathan Swift’s A Modest Proposal of 1729. Swift’s target was Protestant England’s economic policy in Catholic Ireland and the disastrous poverty this had created. After paragraphs of statistics on population and nutrition, we arrive at the grotesque:

I have been assured … that a young healthy child well nursed, is, at a year old, a most delicious nourishing and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricasie, or a ragoust.

By selling their children for food, the pamphlet claims, the poor can save themselves an expense and guarantee themselves an income. Disoriented, every reader is made aware of a simple principle we all share: you don’t eat children, even Irish children, even Catholic children. So, if those children are not to be left to starve, something else in Ireland will have to give.

This appeal to what we all know and share becomes more difficult when satire addresses itself to people from different cultures with different traditions. In this regard, the history of Charlie Hebdo is worth noting. It grew out of a left-wing magazine, Hara Kiri, later Hebdo Hara Kiri (where Hebdo is simply short for hebdomadaire—weekly), which was formed in 1960 to address national political issues and subsequently banned on a number of occasions. When it was banned in 1970 over a mocking headline about Charles de Gaulle’s death its editors reopened it under a different name to avoid the ban, calling it Charlie Hebdo to distinguish it from a monthly magazine, Charlie, that some of the same cartoonists were already running. Charlie was Charlie Brown, but also now, comically, Charles de Gaulle. Its focus was on French politics and when it was felt to have overstepped the mark the democratically elected French government was in a position to impose a temporary closure. It was a French affair.

Wound down for lack of funds in 1981, Charlie Hebdo was resurrected in 1991 when cartoonists wanted to create a platform for political satire about the first Gulf War. With this explicitly international agenda the relationship between satirists, readers, and targets became more complex. The readers were the same left-wing French public, used to seeing fierce attacks on all things sacred, but the targets sometimes lay outside France or at least outside mainstream French culture. In 2002 the magazine hosted an article supporting controversial Italian author Oriana Fallaci and her claims that Islam in general, not just the extremists, was on the march against the West. In 2006, Charlie Hebdo’s cartoons of Muhammad and reprint of the Danish cartoonist Jyllands-Posten’s controversial Muhammad cartoons led to the paper’s selling 400,000 copies, rather than the normal 60,000 to 100,000. Popularity and notoriety had arrived through mockery of a target outside French culture but with which an aggrieved minority in France now identified.

Sued by the Grand Mosque, the Muslim World League, and the Union of French Islamic Organizations, the paper’s editors defended themselves, insisting that their humor was aimed at violent extremists, not at Islam itself. Islamic organizations didn’t see it that way. While President Chirac criticized satire that inflamed divisions between cultures, various politicians, Hollande and Sarkozy included, wrote to the court to defend the cartoonists, Sarkozy in particular referring to the ancient French tradition of satire. Eventually the court acquitted the paper and freedom of speech was upheld. But the effect of the cartoons had been to inflame moderate areas of Islam. The ancient French tradition of satire was creating more heat than light. It was also uniting French politicians usually opposed to each other against a perceived threat from without.

It is said, by contrast, that Christian leaders have now grown used to their religion being desecrated and pilloried in every way. This is not entirely the case. In 2011 Charlie Hebdo noted that while Muslims had sued the paper only once, the Catholic Church had launched thirteen cases against it. In the 1990s, writing satirical pieces for the Italian magazine Comix, I had my own experience of the difficulties of attacking the church through satire. In this case too an issue of cultural blindness was involved. Reacting to yet another Vatican condemnation of abortion, even in cases of rape, I suggested that if the Catholic Church really cared about abortion it might perhaps change its position on contraception and actually manufacture condoms with images of the saints, or perhaps even prickly hair-shirt condoms, or San Sebastian condoms, so that lovemaking would be simultaneously an indulgence and a penitence, and people would be mindful of their Lord even between the sheets. Comix refused to publish.

This was not, I believe, a question of self-censorship or lack of courage on the magazine’s part. The editors of Comix were perfectly ready to attack the Church on issues of abortion and birth control. They just didn’t think that the idea of people having sex with condoms showing their favorite saint was the right way to go about it. Too many of their readers—mostly Catholic by culture if not practice—would be offended; it would not help them to get distance and perspective on the debate. Knowing Italy and Italians better now, I reckon they were right. It was my Protestant background and complete carelessness about images of saints and virgins that made me unaware of the kind of response the piece would have stirred up.

Most likely, however, that same Italian public would have had no problem with the drawings of Muhammad that provoked the massacre at Charlie Hebdo last week; because they, like me, but unlike the vast majority of Muslims, set no value on the image Muhammad. When I see Charlie Hebdo’s cartoon entitled “Muhammad overcome by fundamentalists,” showing a weeping Muhammad saying, “It’s tough being loved by assholes,” I smile and take the point. For a Muslim reader perhaps the point is lost in the offense of a belittling representation of a figure they hold sacred.

Where we’re coming from and who we’re writing to is important. Not all readers are the same. In The Satanic Verses (1988), Salman Rushdie includes a dream sequence where the prostitutes have the names of Muhammad’s wives. There are also various provocative reinterpretations of Islam, but certainly nothing that would disturb a Western reader, and in fact the novel was on the shortlist for Britain’s Booker Prize for fiction without even a smell of scandal in the air. Only as publication was approaching in India and the paper India Today ran an interview with Rushdie did the controversy begin in earnest, with riots, deaths, and eventually the Ayatollah Khomeini’s fatwa calling for Muslims to kill Rushdie.

It is, in short, this mixing of cultures and immediate globalization of so many publications through the Internet that makes satire more problematic as the Swiftian appeal to the values we share becomes more elusive. In the Inferno Dante could imagine Muhammad in hell, his body obscenely split open—“from the chin right down to where men fart”—as fit punishment for his crime of religious schism. The Divine Comedy was not intended for publication in India. Needless to say any such representation of Christ would have been unthinkable.

The following questions arise: Now that the whole world is my neighbor, my immediate Internet neighbor, do I make any concessions at all, or do I uphold the ancient tradition of satire at all costs? And again, is a culture that takes mortal offense when an image it holds sacred is mocked a second-rate culture that needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into the twenty-first century, my twenty-first-century that is? Do I have the moral authority to decide this?

In his response to the attack on Charlie Hebdo in Paris, the cartoonist Joe Sacco makes the distinction between the right to free expression and the sensible use of it. One might be free, he says, to draw—as he does to illustrate—a black man falling out of a tree with a banana in his hand, or a Jew counting money over the entrails of the working class, but of what possible use are these images? And actually of course we’re not free. In Italy and Germany it is illegal to display certain images that recall Fascism and Nazism. Denial of the Holocaust is a crime in France. In the United States and Britain, our freedom—in practice—to indulge in racist, anti-Semitic, misogynist, and homophobic insults has been notably limited, at least since the late 1980s when notions of “political correctness” became increasingly pervasive. Even Charlie Hebdo fired a cartoonist for anti-Semitism. None of these restrictions have proved a great loss, at least for me.

Joe Sacco’s take on the tragedy in Paris is smart. In raising the question of the usefulness or otherwise of a cartoon, rather than remaining fixated on the question of freedom of speech, he reminds us of the essentially pragmatic nature of satire. However grotesque and provocative its comedy, its aim is to produce an enlightened perspective on events, not to start riots. At this point, and notwithstanding a profound sense of horror for the evil and stupidity of the terrorist attack on the magazine’s offices, one has to wonder about Charlie Hebdo’s pride in constantly dubbing themselves a “Journal Irresponsable.” The current edition of the paper shows Muhammad in such a way that his white turban looks like two balls and his long pink face a penis. The Prophet is being dubbed a prick. He holds a Je suis Charlie placard and announces that all is forgiven. The print run was extended to five million copies after a first run of three million sold out; this up from a standard run of 60,000. Is it likely this approach will help to isolate violent extremists from mainstream Muslim sentiment?

Source

Draws on the themes that were debated from the Joe Sacco cartoon in the grunaid. My first response after seeing the Sacco cartoon was that it made a good point about satire that wants to connect rather than merely offend and lampoon, which still should be sacrosanct. I now feel All regions are not mocked enough, not just Islam, but Hindus, Pindoos, Christians the lot of them. If anything Charlie Hebdo cartoons are way too mild. And fuck reaching out and connecting with the audience, they don't deserve it, all religions should be mercilessly ridiculed.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 10:05:10 pm by Twelfth Man »
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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1775 on: January 17, 2015, 07:46:18 pm »
5 million people got it.

Offline LondonRapLondon

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1776 on: January 17, 2015, 08:33:01 pm »
Data reveal six of the top eight porn-searching countries are Muslim states.

Pakistan tops the list at number one, followed by Egypt at number two. Iran, Morocco, Saudi Arabia and Turkey come in at numbers four, five, seven and eight, respectively. Pakistan leads the way in porn searches for animals like pigs, donkeys, dogs, cats and snakes.

I call bullshit.

Way certain media tries to make Africans out to be uncontrolled sexually - including bestiality propaganda. The truth is, those search results are really selective and skewed by the newness of the internet - us boys in the West have had the net longer and we have grown up with it and thus so much of our curiosity over porn removed as we've done our searches and consumed it.

The propaganda of presenting Arabs and  other Muslims in general as decadent sexually has been around since the crusades (medieval times). It's just a continuation of it. Just like the propaganda against Africans, making out to be backward - also making AA sisters marginalized from society and the object of ridicule and disdain.

If we really want to talk about porn how about talking about the producers of the porn and those who traffic and exploit the females (and males) to perform - no African and/or Muslim country are to be seen. Aint nobody talking about that. Why? Doesn't suit the agenda of Western propaganda yet - maybe they will when they start stealing China's resources (and China tries to fight back). Doubt they will try it with China though as it's organised and powerful so these punks are with propaganda against Pakistan, Africans and Arabs. Call bullshit whenever you see it - it's part of the game.

These are the same people who have given a racist set stereotypical role to each race in their product called pronography. Call hypocrisy when you see it.

Add to the ballpark the search result stats aint even reliable:

http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/islamophobes-and-pakistan-porn.html

Just remember the Jews received it in Europe and were seen as a 5th column where Europeans were even making shit up about Jews eating/killing Christian babies! Happened to Africans where the pioneers of Eugenics starting expressing bullshit about how Africans are inferior. Happened with the Russians during the cold war and now it's happening to Muslims. Propaganda.

Nuff said.

Offline Malaysian Kopite

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1777 on: January 17, 2015, 09:34:00 pm »
Football without fans is nothing.

We've won 18 titles, 5 European Cups, 7 FA Cups, but today must be the greatest victory of all.

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1778 on: January 17, 2015, 09:43:02 pm »
I call bullshit.

Way certain media tries to make Africans out to be uncontrolled sexually - including bestiality propaganda.

Isn't Pakistan in Asia? I'm pretty sure Iran is. And what about Saudi? Isn't that Asia too? And Turkey is in Europe isn't it? Morocco and Egypt are in Africa, I'll grant you. But not sub-Saharan Africa which is where the loathsome stereotypes you're probably referring to are normally aimed at.
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Offline LondonRapLondon

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1779 on: January 17, 2015, 10:09:25 pm »
Isn't Pakistan in Asia? I'm pretty sure Iran is. And what about Saudi? Isn't that Asia too? And Turkey is in Europe isn't it? Morocco and Egypt are in Africa, I'll grant you. But not sub-Saharan Africa which is where the loathsome stereotypes you're probably referring to are normally aimed at.

Dude, talk about missing the fucking point.

I know Pakistan aint in Africa. We do have maps where I come from as well.

I was comparing the propaganda against Africans with that shit about porn searches in Muslim countries. Same old propaganda - both designed to debase and insult ppl racially.



« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 10:11:22 pm by LondonRapLondon »

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1780 on: January 17, 2015, 10:26:39 pm »
I call bullshit.



I think you're on to something. I mean, the first line of the article you cite is possibly the most convincing argument I've ever seen to refute the statistical evidence -


Quote
Pakistan  is never going to be the biggest consumer or producer of pornography for a number of reasons – the primary one being that it is NOT allowed according to Islam.


I suggest you PM the mod called Alan X with your research and findings to date.
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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1781 on: January 17, 2015, 10:30:32 pm »
Dude, talk about missing the fucking point.

I know Pakistan aint in Africa. We do have maps where I come from as well.

I was comparing the propaganda against Africans with that shit about porn searches in Muslim countries. Same old propaganda - both designed to debase and insult ppl racially.




I have no idea whether the porn research is correct, but I know that in the US there is a direct correlation between religious participation in a state and their consumption of porn.

So, whilst I can see your point that that it may be mendacious, there is also a very clear precedent of a link between religious observance and watching grot.
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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1782 on: January 17, 2015, 10:38:03 pm »
I have no idea whether the porn research is correct, but I know that in the US there is a direct correlation between religious participation in a state and their consumption of porn.

So, whilst I can see your point that that it may be mendacious, there is also a very clear precedent of a link between religious observance and watching grot.

Religious people are humans too and they have the same desires thus obviously consumption of porn will happen in religious communities too. But I've seen that shit about the Bible Belt in America and porn, seems like secularists making a bigger deal of it for their own purposes.

Again, we need to start looking at ppl making the porn rather than victims who get addicted and shit. All races and religious communities have a porn problem, trying to make it out as thought religious ppl are more susceptible to it is bullshit (not saying your doing that but there are those dumbass anti-religion zealotjackasses on the net who are into that line of 'argument')

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1783 on: January 17, 2015, 10:44:37 pm »

I think you're on to something. I mean, the first line of the article you cite is possibly the most convincing argument I've ever seen to refute the statistical evidence -



I suggest you PM the mod called Alan X with your research and findings to date.

Dude, being superficial aint gonna stimulate a discussion. Or maybe you're trolling for a reaction. Come on dude, fucking take the points on a whole rather than finding the first thing to jump on.

And you email this Alan guy, I aint your bitch.


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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1784 on: January 17, 2015, 10:45:14 pm »
Religious people are humans too and they have the same desires thus obviously consumption of porn will happen in religious communities too. But I've seen that shit about the Bible Belt in America and porn, seems like secularists making a bigger deal of it for their own purposes.

Again, we need to start looking at ppl making the porn rather than victims who get addicted and shit. All races and religious communities have a porn problem, trying to make it out as thought religious ppl are more susceptible to it is bullshit (not saying your doing that but there are those dumbass anti-religion zealotjackasses on the net who are into that line of 'argument')
I think the issue that annoys people mostly might be the denial that there is a problem and the hypocrisy involved in that.  This doesn't only extend to Muslim countries, but to many countries form the Middle East to Indo Asia.

I would suspect that hideous punishments for "adultery" also could push up porn viewing rates.... 
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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1785 on: January 17, 2015, 10:49:30 pm »
Religious people are humans too and they have the same desires thus obviously consumption of porn will happen in religious communities too. But I've seen that shit about the Bible Belt in America and porn, seems like secularists making a bigger deal of it for their own purposes.

Again, we need to start looking at ppl making the porn rather than victims who get addicted and shit. All races and religious communities have a porn problem, trying to make it out as thought religious ppl are more susceptible to it is bullshit (not saying your doing that but there are those dumbass anti-religion zealotjackasses on the net who are into that line of 'argument')

Not true. Muslims don't, because as you well know from the article you cited,

Quote
[Muslim countries are]... never going to be the biggest consumer or producer of pornography for a number of reasons – the primary one being that it is NOT allowed according to Islam.

And thanks for pointing out that we need to start looking at the people making the porn. I already do, a couple of times a week at least.
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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1786 on: January 17, 2015, 10:51:35 pm »

I know Pakistan aint in Africa. We do have maps where I come from as well.


You have maps in London? I didn't know that.
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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1787 on: January 17, 2015, 10:52:14 pm »
I think the issue that annoys people mostly might be the denial that there is a problem and the hypocrisy involved in that.  This doesn't only extend to Muslim countries, but to many countries form the Middle East to Indo Asia.


That's a fair point. I agree fully. Ppl whitewashing stuff and claiming their shit don't stick. All communities have porn problems. I worry for the poorer countries as they don;t have the infrastructure Western countries have, so when people start to pump porn in there's gonna be less filters so child porn and forced porn may well be greater in number (not saying I have any research on this but let's admit it, if us Brits had less restrictions and censorship on the net there would be more of child porn and forced porn).

And another point, we have so many Germans and Brits going to Thailand and other Asian countries for their nasty desires so if that shit is going on in those poorer in real life then one would suspect that it's defo going on in greater number in the cyber world.

Sad.

Feeling depressing thinking about it.

But good point, Tepid

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1788 on: January 17, 2015, 10:55:42 pm »
Not true. Muslims don't, because as you well know from the article you cited,

Yeah like that's really the point behind the article.




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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1789 on: January 17, 2015, 10:55:57 pm »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30573385


These guys don't know their own religion. Or maybe they know it too well...
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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1790 on: January 17, 2015, 11:04:15 pm »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30573385


These guys don't know their own religion. Or maybe they know it too well...

Considering all the Muslim scholars, yes actual scholars including the two most famous universities in the Muslim world have condemned IS then it's easy to say they don't know their religion.

And there aint no religion in the world allowing rape.

That is a sick news story, reminds me of the stories coming out from the Bosnia crisis.

These are depressing times

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1791 on: January 17, 2015, 11:06:56 pm »
Considering all the Muslim scholars, yes actual scholars including the two most famous universities in the Muslim world have condemned IS then it's easy to say they don't know their religion.

And there aint no religion in the world allowing rape.

That is a sick news story, reminds me of the stories coming out from the Bosnia crisis.

These are depressing times

Muslim scholars?  As much a joke as Christian, Jewish or Zoroastrian scholars.

Any genuine scholar of those religions would ask serious serious questions about the validity of their source material.  They wouldn't need to look very hard to realise that they should question much of what they believe.

But they choose not to, because they aren't what anyone else would describe as scholars.
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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1792 on: January 17, 2015, 11:13:55 pm »
And there aint no religion in the world allowing rape.


Well the Koran specifically allows the rape of slaves, I would say that is religion allowing it.
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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1793 on: January 17, 2015, 11:15:58 pm »
Well the Koran specifically allows the rape of slaves, I would say that is religion allowing it.

And spousal rape is legal in Saudi Arabia where church and state are as one. Ergo...

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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1794 on: January 17, 2015, 11:17:21 pm »
Well the Koran specifically allows the rape of slaves, I would say that is religion allowing it.
isnt that haditihic?
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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1795 on: January 17, 2015, 11:19:05 pm »
Yeah like that's really the point behind the article.

Quote
it is NOT allowed according to Islam.

Quote
Pornography is not legal in Muslim countries

Quote
Online Education’s pie chart of worldwide pornography revenues shows... in fact NO Muslim country is even mentioned by name

Quote
firstly pornography is ILLEGAL in Pakistan, secondly as a POOR country the people there are hardly going to be spending cash on copious pornography!

Quote
In any case, pornography is deemed unislamic

Quote
Is pornography allowed in Islam? No.

Quote
Watching pornography is forbidden, whether a person is married or not.

Quote
by Islamic standards, much of what is considered normal in advertising is actually pornographic

Quote
The Islamic solution to living in a society where pornographic images are so visible is to lower one's gaze



Yeahhhhh, I see what you mean. It's not the real point of the article, but they repeat it nine times for effect.


Unless you mean that the point of the article is to state that anyone who dares suggest that Muslims prolifically use pornography are Islamophobes, a pejorative they manage to squeeze in a mere seven times in their article.


But their refutation that Pakistan is "number one for porn" hinges mainly on these two facts.

Quote
Is Pakistan “number one for porn”?

I recently heard a Christian host from a missionary TV station claim such. This is obvious nonsense for two reasons: firstly pornography is ILLEGAL in Pakistan, secondly as a POOR country the people there are hardly going to be spending cash on copious pornography!
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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1796 on: January 17, 2015, 11:21:01 pm »
isnt that haditihic?

Qur’an 23:1-6—The Believers must (eventually) win through—those who humble themselves in their prayers; who avoid vain talk; who are active in deeds of charity; who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess—for (in their case) they are free from blame.
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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1797 on: January 17, 2015, 11:27:08 pm »
Well the Koran specifically allows the rape of slaves, I would say that is religion allowing it.

I call huge bullshit. What you gonna say next, the Bible allows it too?

Actually, if you research it, it looks like you've been hard by the racist propaganda on the internet (hence why your saying the Koran allows it).

See for yourself from Muslim SOURCES and scholars:

This one is about slaves and rape:

http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=rape&x=0&y=0

This one is about rape in general:

http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=hamza+yusuf+rape&x=0&y=0

Dude, you really think Kolo Toure, Assaidi, etc are really walking around thinking they can rape according to RELIGION? Sit yourself down dude and really think about the stuff you say.

Let me tell you something, they were saying Jews were killing/eating babies in Europe to demonise them. They were saying we were savages to kind of placate their ill treatment and racism against us during slavery. It's the same old game. Don;t be fooled man.


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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1798 on: January 17, 2015, 11:29:47 pm »

Sexual repression is a state in which a person is prevented from expressing his or her sexuality. This is very common in countries where the age of consent is particularly high . Sexual repression is often associated with feelings of guilt or shame being associated with sexual impulses.[1] What constitutes sexual repression is subjective and can vary greatly between cultures and moral systems. Many religions have been accused of fostering sexual repression.

Some ideologies seek to repress certain forms of sexual expression, such as homosexual sexuality. Some cultures use practices such as female genital mutilation, and even violent practices such as honor killings or stoning in an attempt to regulate sexual behavior.

Source

A bit of basic psychology would be so helpful to Islam and repressed cultures in general, but true to form such self-understanding which can be derived from the humanities is typically banned. That repressed cultures/societies consume a lot of porn can't be fucking news to anyone. Are we really even debating this?

Tell me those 72 virgins waiting for the bloodthirsty Jihadists, will they be just serving tea and fucking biscuits in heaven?
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Re: Shooting at Charlie Hebdo offices in Paris
« Reply #1799 on: January 17, 2015, 11:32:01 pm »
I call huge bullshit. What you gonna say next, the Bible allows it too?

Actually, if you research it, it looks like you've been hard by the racist propaganda on the internet (hence why your saying the Koran allows it).

See for yourself from Muslim SOURCES and scholars:

This one is about slaves and rape:

http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=rape&x=0&y=0

This one is about rape in general:

http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=hamza+yusuf+rape&x=0&y=0

Dude, you really think Kolo Toure, Assaidi, etc are really walking around thinking they can rape according to RELIGION? Sit yourself down dude and really think about the stuff you say.

Let me tell you something, they were saying Jews were killing/eating babies in Europe to demonise them. They were saying we were savages to kind of placate their ill treatment and racism against us during slavery. It's the same old game. Don;t be fooled man.


Most people don't think that.


But some do, quite a number in some parts of the world sadly.

Still that's to ignore the keeping slaves and extra marital sex being ok of course.... Which is terrible too.

Edit: in addition, would any slave genuinely want to have sex with their owner?  The articles you posted say it's ok to have sex with a slave.... I can't image that could ever be consensual.....
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 11:40:31 pm by Tepid water »
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