Author Topic: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?  (Read 107822 times)

Offline Skidder.

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You could do it with far less traffic as you only need transmit the words, not the silence inbetween them.

Using a volume threshold to trigger and also stop recording, then quantise at whatever rate you want and dump to a circular buffer around the size of your maximum capture, lets say most words can be said within 2 seconds so at 44.1 khz sample rate (ie CD quality) and mono at 8bits, that's going to be just over 86Kb. When the buffer is full, drain the buffer via a lossless compression like Flac which will quite possibly reduce the size by more than 60% as it's only voice and not a complex signal like an orchestral sample, and then drop into into a packet to squirt it off. That should all probably take less than 5ms at 1Ghz core speed as that's 5,000,000 instructions at cpu level, more than enough for a thread to do the job in just one quantum with no context switches and then some, and without breaking into a sweat and you likely wouldn't notice it happening.

(Bandwidth stealing in quietness using such techniques, ie using the pauses between words, has been employed by BT for the last 30 years on digital backbones and is predated by similar techniques employed on International Satellite links.)

Not questioning the veracity of this - but is this a thing? Not gonna lie, some of that is French to me - but it looks believable.
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Offline The Gulleysucker

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Not questioning the veracity of this - but is this a thing? Not gonna lie, some of that is French to me - but it looks believable.

Yes, I think it's reasonable though I'm not suggesting it's happening, I'm just mulling through possible ways of doing it.

Co-ordination between populating the circular buffer and then processing the contents via a parallel stream/filter idiom to do the lossless compression should be easy'ish to code and not too intrusive or demanding on resources for just spoken speech.

Except for processing the buffer with Flac which I understand is quite lightweight, the principle is little different from multi-track software recording techniques that have been around for 20 or so years, and since it's only using one 'track' it should be simple (It's only when you introduce heavyweight plugins to process multiple audio tracks like reverb and echo that things slow down and eat up cpu cycles and that's why for music production there are several plugin cards with SHARC DSP's available from the likes of UA to offload the plugin generated load from the CPU cores, ie pretty much along the lines of what I was suggesting with using the consumer device GPS cores earlier).

Incidentally, the 64kbps requirement for voice originated way back, around 40 years ago when the proposals to replace the old analog telephone network started to take shape. Digitising an analog signal is dependent on what audio bandwidth you wish to encode. Nyquist and Shannon & Hartley pretty much laid down the rules even earlier for it all in that you typically sample at the minimum twice the analog bandwidth, so for a 4khz bandwidth (fine for the spoken voice intelligability-the old analogue phone system was actually only 3kz bandwidth which was why the old dial a disc service was grim sounding) then that would be 4000 x 2 = 8000 (that's the Baud rate, ie change of signal state and not to be confused with the bit rate) and with an 8 bit sample depth that then gives you 64000 bps coming out. Historically, most of the telecoms backbones were based on multiples of this number and various muxing/demuxing/bi-plexing techniques are employed behind the scenes to on-the-fly allocate this according to current demand, ie allocate the silences to other consumers - rob Peter to pay Paul. You in effect have a virtual circuit rather than a physical one. It generally works so fast, we humans don't know it's going on unless the provider decides to re-allocate your bandwidth to a higher priority customer (Virgin Business used to be notorious for doing that) and everything slows down for you.

(Sorry, it's difficult to explain or discuss in detail without descending into levels of possibly uncomfortable spoddery.)

Just a quick edit...the more I think about this, the more I believe it's certainly very feasible at a technology level. , there's Cuda libraries for Kaldi which looks very interesting.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 10:11:15 am by The Gulleysucker »
I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

Mutton Geoff (Obviously a real nice guy)

Offline CheshireDave

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This is the subject of the latest Reply All podcast this week. Interesting to learn about how invasive Facebook and other companies are online AND offline.
Fuckin' 'Ell It's Fred Titmus

Offline Skidder.

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This is the subject of the latest Reply All podcast this week. Interesting to learn about how invasive Facebook and other companies are online AND offline.

https://gimletmedia.com/episode/109-facebook-spying/

Just found it.
« Last Edit: November 2, 2017, 06:58:04 pm by Kidder. »
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Offline SP

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Just catching up, but subtitles are not generated from the broadcast, they actually pay people to repeat the words said, and that is passed through speech recognition software.

Oddly enough, I am currently involved in a project to integrate speech recognition tech onboard in an app to assess the pronunciation quality.

Onboarding would be noticeable in the app. Integrating with Android APIs is also fairly obvious. Facebook is the target of enough privacy obsessives that they would never get away with it. Perversely a smaller lower profile company probably could.

Offline Skidder.

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Just catching up, but subtitles are not generated from the broadcast, they actually pay people to repeat the words said, and that is passed through speech recognition software.

Oddly enough, I am currently involved in a project to integrate speech recognition tech onboard in an app to assess the pronunciation quality.

Onboarding would be noticeable in the app. Integrating with Android APIs is also fairly obvious. Facebook is the target of enough privacy obsessives that they would never get away with it. Perversely a smaller lower profile company probably could.

Live News broadcasts? It would make sense post it like.

It doesn't always go to plan though.
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Offline Skidder.

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Right, so, this, may not seem relevant to the subject at hand - and it sort of isn't in a way - but I would be very interested to hear people's thoughts on this section of writing from Francis Bacon.

Any interpretation or contraction will be greatly appreciated.

Quote
For I find that even those that have sought knowledge for itself and not for benefit, or ostentation, or any practical enablement in the course of their life, have nevertheless propounded to themselves a wrong mark, namely, satisfaction, which men call truth, and not operation. For as in the courts and services of princes and states, it is a much easier matter to give satisfaction than to do the business; so in the inquiring of causes and reasons it is much easier to find out such causes as will satisfy the mind of man, and quiet objections, than such causes as will direct him and give him light to new experiences and inventions.” 
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Offline CraigDS

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Right, so, this, may not seem relevant to the subject at hand - and it sort of isn't in a way

It sort of isn't by a massive way, you mean  ;D

Offline Skidder.

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It sort of isn't by a massive way, you mean  ;D

Ha! Twat.  ;D
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Offline CraigDS

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Ha! Twat.  ;D

Careful speaking like that, you've no idea what sort of adverts that keyword will serve up  ;D

Offline PaulKS

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They probably weren't listening to you.

But they can if they want to.

Offline Alan_X

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Just had an interesting moment - I was watching an Alan Partidge clip on Youtube and accidently pressed the Siri buton on my MacBook which recorded "tell me about the ladyboys..."
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline The Gulleysucker

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Just had an interesting moment - I was watching an Alan Partidge clip on Youtube and accidently pressed the Siri buton on my MacBook which recorded "tell me about the ladyboys..."

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/FCcdr4O-3gE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/FCcdr4O-3gE</a>


 ;)
I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

Mutton Geoff (Obviously a real nice guy)

Offline jason67

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Are we still posting examples/experiences?

Just been out shopping, went into Hofer and saw some car mats going cheap. Just bought a new car so I showed them to my GF and suggested it would be a good idea to buy some for the winter as they were pretty good value. Got home, unpacked the shopping, went on YT and the first advert that came up was for car mats.
I'd never searched for them in my life, googled them or spoke about them before, it was a completely spur of the moment purchase. When I was in the supermarket I had my phone with me but never had it out of my pocket. Interestingly the very same thing happened a few months ago with another product and also it happened to my GF on her laptop, 3 times in a few months.
At last the TRUTH 26th April 2016

Still don't buy the s*n.

Offline CraigDS

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Are we still posting examples/experiences?

Just been out shopping, went into Hofer and saw some car mats going cheap. Just bought a new car so I showed them to my GF and suggested it would be a good idea to buy some for the winter as they were pretty good value. Got home, unpacked the shopping, went on YT and the first advert that came up was for car mats.
I'd never searched for them in my life, googled them or spoke about them before, it was a completely spur of the moment purchase. When I was in the supermarket I had my phone with me but never had it out of my pocket. Interestingly the very same thing happened a few months ago with another product and also it happened to my GF on her laptop, 3 times in a few months.

I imagine during those 3 months you/she will have had 100's of other adverts for products you've never looked at though, right?

Offline jason67

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To be honest with your Craig I don't visit many sites and I don't look out for the ads so I can't really tell you. Like I said, same thing happened to my a while ago with some equally obscure product. I mean come on car mats? what a strange product to me on YT....
At last the TRUTH 26th April 2016

Still don't buy the s*n.

Offline Xabi Gerrard

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To be honest with your Craig I don't visit many sites and I don't look out for the ads so I can't really tell you. Like I said, same thing happened to my a while ago with some equally obscure product. I mean come on car mats? what a strange product to me on YT....

You said you just bought a new car - had you looked up anything car related online recently?

Offline jason67

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You said you just bought a new car - had you looked up anything car related online recently?
Obviously I've been online looking at cars to buy. But what a strange thing car mats, why not new cars, showrooms or even wing mirrors?

Like I said before I really don't pay attention to ads nor do I visit a lot of different sites.
At last the TRUTH 26th April 2016

Still don't buy the s*n.

Offline 24/7

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Obviously I've been online looking at cars to buy. But what a strange thing car mats, why not new cars, showrooms or even wing mirrors?

Like I said before I really don't pay attention to ads nor do I visit a lot of different sites.
I see you're still being stalked......mats, tyres, what next.....de-icer?

Offline Xabi Gerrard

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Obviously I've been online looking at cars to buy. But what a strange thing car mats, why not new cars, showrooms or even wing mirrors?

Like I said before I really don't pay attention to ads nor do I visit a lot of different sites.

Just playing devils advocate here (don't know what side of the fence I'm on yet re: whether this is going on or not), but I don't think it's that obscure to see ads for car mats if you've been searching online for cars to buy. As you say, you don't really pay attention to the ads generally so you may have missed other car related adverts but this one just caught your eye?

I dunno, maybe there is more to it. Wouldn't be surprised either way.

Offline jason67

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I see you're still being stalked......mats, tyres, what next.....de-icer?

 ;D
You know what? I'm gonna do an experiment, talk about something whilst shopping and then see if it comes up in any ads.
At last the TRUTH 26th April 2016

Still don't buy the s*n.

Offline stoa

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Obviously I've been online looking at cars to buy. But what a strange thing car mats, why not new cars, showrooms or even wing mirrors?

You've given the answer yourself. Winter is coming. You thought it might be a good idea to get car mats. You did. And so will quite a few others.

Offline LanceLink!!!!!

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Might get some car mats after reading this :)

Offline 24/7

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;D
You know what? I'm gonna do an experiment, talk about something whilst shopping and then see if it comes up in any ads.
Lube?
















It's a car engine oil reference!!!!!!!! ;D

Offline 24/7

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You've given the answer yourself. Winter is coming. You thought it might be a good idea to get car mats. You did. And so will quite a few others.
Check out Obi-Wan here ;)

Offline jason67

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Fuck the lot of yers, you'll all be apologising to the enlightened ones on this thread when the truth comes out.  ;)
At last the TRUTH 26th April 2016

Still don't buy the s*n.

Offline 24/7

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Fuck the lot of yers, you'll all be apologising to the enlightened ones on this thread when the truth comes out.  ;)
:lmao - it'll probably be sponsored by google anyway......

Offline Skidder.

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Okay - gonna try an experiment - what would be the best topic to speak about?

I'm thinking cars would be one... two more perhaps?

Has to be stuff I am not generally in to.
« Last Edit: November 4, 2017, 07:44:25 pm by Kidder. »
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Offline Graeme

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Has to be stuff I am not generally in to.

Rational thinking? :D

Offline Skidder.

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Rational thinking? :D

Oi! I'm the most rational fucking person in here.

Now fuck off back to your desk at Facebook and stop trying to derail one of the most important threads of the 21st Century to ship your own agenda - you... unbeliever!

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Offline Skidder.

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Seriously though - I think cars would be one of the best topics to talk about as there must be shedloads of people or companies trying to sell their car stuff through the book. I guess if you were looking for hotwords for cars, it would have to be, like Jason said, something like car mats. In fact, fuck it, I'll go for car mats - I have no reason to search for them and I have only spoke about them in this thread.

But what products are trending now?
« Last Edit: November 4, 2017, 09:07:07 pm by Kidder. »
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Online Elmo!

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Seriously though - I think cars would be one of the best topics to talk about as there must be shedloads of people or companies trying to sell their car stuff through the book. I guess if you were looking for hotwords for cars, it would have to be, like Jason said, something like car mats. In fact, fuck it, I'll go for car mats - I have no reason to search for them and I have only spoke about them in this thread.

But what products are trending now?

Ghostery is reporting that this site is using Google Analytics so they already know you're talking about car mats....

Offline Skidder.

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Ghostery is reporting that this site is using Google Analytics so they already know you're talking about car mats....

Wait...wait... what?
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Offline rob1966

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I imagine during those 3 months you/she will have had 100's of other adverts for products you've never looked at though, right?

The adverts I get which I know come from browsing are only ever for things I've looked at or already bought, I never see ads for other stuff.

Annoying when I'd bought my wife a diamond necklace for our anniversary as a surprise and diamond ads kept popping up and the Lovehoney ads can fuck off now.
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Offline Skidder.

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #474 on: November 11, 2017, 10:42:21 am »
Mentioned earlier in the thread stuff about cars - I don't have a car and I don't have any need to research anything to do with cars whatsoever. I am not a part of any car groups, I haven't liked any car pages, I don't watch Top Gear - in fact, I've been scaling back on the stuff I like on Facebook...

For the past couple of days, Facebook has been chucking car insurance adverts at me. I've been keeping a close eye on my ads for a long while now and I've had adverts for stuff I like, sure; film stuff, clothes, TV programmes... But car insurance?

I think it probably calls back to what was said earlier in the thread about cookie searches - except, I have in no way, shape, or form searched for anything to do with car insurance.

 
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Offline McrRed

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #475 on: November 11, 2017, 01:59:50 pm »
Case proven. QED.
No, I mean it.

Offline Skidder.

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #476 on: November 11, 2017, 03:30:52 pm »
Case proven. QED.
No, I mean it.

Please, enlighten me.
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #477 on: November 22, 2017, 02:21:15 pm »
So I've just had Heinz Mayo with lunch, a big switch as I've always been a Hellmans man, then go on FB to see a big Heinz Mayo advert staring at me.

Is FB monitoring my taste buds?

Offline rob1966

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #478 on: November 22, 2017, 02:31:10 pm »
So I've just had Heinz Mayo with lunch, a big switch as I've always been a Hellmans man, then go on FB to see a big Heinz Mayo advert staring at me.

Is FB monitoring my taste buds?

Stop licking your phone
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Offline conman

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Re: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?
« Reply #479 on: November 22, 2017, 02:49:15 pm »

Over 400 of the World's Most Popular Websites Record Your Every Keystroke, Princeton Researchers Find

“Session replay scripts” can be used to log (and then playback) everything you typed or clicked on a website.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/59yexk/princeton-study-session-replay-scripts-tracking-you


Google has been secretly tracking Android phone locations

Android users–even those who turned off location tracking services, or even removed their SIM card–have had their location data collected by Google, according to a report from Quartz. For most of 2017, Google collected the addresses of nearby cell towers as part of the data it routinely gathered from its users once their phones were connected to the internet.

https://www.fastcompany.com/40499354/android-phones-have-been-secretly-tracking-users-locations