Topic: Qatar's True WC Legacy: news and reports on the human cost of sportswashing.

[stockdam]

Stockdam: But they appear to have decided that colours are illegal. At an international tournament where they gave assurances that all were welcome and that there would be no issues with people from other cultures. That is the point here, and the rest is just nonsense. They hosted the tournament as a tournament for all, and now it's a tournament not for Iranian protestors, not for gay people, not for people who wear certain colours, not for anyone who is filming in the streets, and so on. That is not what they signed up to, so all the nonsense about it being "their country, their laws" is irrelevant.

that's not really it though, is it?  Qatar gave assurances that certain things would be allowed, then did a U-turn at the eleventh hour. Not even the eleventh hour - 55 minutes past the 11th hour.

It was deliberate and it was calculated that nobody would have the time or the balls to react to it. They never intended on honouring their agreements. You have people being removed from stadiums for wearing stuff that FIFA says is fine to wear.

To be honest I don't have all the info but I'll comment and excuse me if I'm incorrect. Btw I am not condoning any actions but trying to "see" things from another perspective which is admittedly, not easy.

Who gave the assurances? I think it was Nasser Al Khater who is only a person who is in charge of the event. He does not dictate the law and has no authority over the police etc. In the interview that I saw he didn't give any assurances about rainbow flags etc. When asked directly he avoided the question and talked about welcoming everyone. I don't know what authority he has in Qatar but I guess he has none; he has to comply with their laws and cannot waive them.

As for FIFA.....well they are a joke and they have no right to comment as they have zero authority in the country.

I'm surprised that anyone thought that displaying any LGBTQ+ symbols would be tolerated as it is fundamentally against their beliefs and law. A country is not going to change a law just for a football tournament. I say this with experience of what it was like in the 70s and 80s in UK. That wasn't long after 1967 when the law changed in England; you still had a lot of people who fundamentally thought that being gay was wrong. It took the UK society 30 plus years before things really changed and I don't expect Qatar to be quicker; nothing will change until their religious beliefs change and that's not looking likely.

Sorry, I don't want to sound contrary but the reality is that Qatar has very different beliefs and therefore laws. They won't change laws just because a trendy football competition comes to town. If FIFA thought that they would then they are the fools here. It boils down to who gave the "assurances"..........did the police give them or the government of Qatar or somebody who has no more authority over law than David Beckham?

[Red Beret]

^^^

FIFA forced Brazil to change their laws when it comes to alcohol in stadiums, but with Qatar? Not a peep. It is FIFA's tournament and there is precedent for removing it from a host nation if certain conditions are not met, regardless of the country's laws or beliefs.

As for the assurances, most of what I understand has come from reading these pages. If you're not in a position to guarantee the assurance you're making then you shouldn't be making it - and it shouldn't take until days before the tournament starts to realise the assurance isn't going to be honoured. It should have been known months, if not years in advance.

Don't make promises you can't keep - definitely don't make promises you have no intention of keeping.

[Lfc19ynwa]

As for FIFA.....well they are a joke and they have no right to comment as they have zero authority in the country.



Sorry, I don't want to sound contrary but the reality is that Qatar has very different beliefs and therefore laws. They won't change laws just because a trendy football competition comes to town. If FIFA thought that they would then they are the fools here.

FIFA couldn’t give a fuck about rainbow flags being taken off of fans , same as the beer ban 2 days before the event began, so long as the cash went into their account prior to the tournament starting they will sit back and allow the Qatari’s free reign.

[oojason]

.
Day 11 : the third day of the final round of Group Stage matches...


Australia vs Denmark










^ from https://twitter.com/benlewismedia/status/1597969795634581506






'The attendance for this match is 41,232' - www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/61016531 & https://twitter.com/alkasschannel/status/1597996632922013698

^ 

The new capacity of the Al Janoub Stadium is 44,325. (it was 40,000 at the start of the World Cup): www.qatar2022.qa/en/tournament/stadiums/al-janoub-stadium





Tunisia v France










^ from the official Qatar news agency (rare images of empty seats from them) - https://twitter.com/QNAEnglish/status/1597978424169185280








'The attendance for this match is 43,627' - www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/61016533 & https://twitter.com/alraya_n/status/1597994034328477696

^ 

The new capacity of the Education City Stadium is 44,667. (it was 40,000 at the start of the World Cup): www.qatar2022.qa/en/tournament/stadiums/education-city-stadium

[stockdam]

^^^

FIFA forced Brazil to change their laws when it comes to alcohol in stadiums, but with Qatar? Not a peep. It is FIFA's tournament and there is precedent for removing it from a host nation if certain conditions are not met, regardless of the country's laws or beliefs.

As for the assurances, most of what I understand has come from reading these pages. If you're not in a position to guarantee the assurance you're making then you shouldn't be making it - and it shouldn't take until days before the tournament starts to realise the assurance isn't going to be honoured. It should have been known months, if not years in advance.

Don't make promises you can't keep - definitely don't make promises you have no intention of keeping.

But you cannot waive a law unless it comes from government. I don't know UK law well enough but I think that a temporary bill would probably need to be put in place to legalise the change plus the police would need to be briefed. I don't think anyone can decide to waive the law. I also don't know the law in Qatar but I guess they have a similar system.

I may be wrong but all the articles that I read were about "assurances from Qatar" but that means nothing unless the assurances came from somebody with authority. If FIFA didn't get a legal assurance then they are simply spreading misinformation. FIFA were not interested in anything other than the billions they would get. If the legal position wasn't sorted out then all it takes is one person to complain about the flags and then the authorities have to enforce the law.......they cannot ignore the law because "assurances" were given by the guy running the tournament.

[stockdam]

The best that I can find about Qatar's assurances is:

"police in Qatar had been briefed to be tolerant during the tournament under enabling law introduced for the finals, where minor offences will not be prosecuted."

If that is the case then what laws were introduced for the finals and what do these laws state? It could be that there are temporary laws and if so it would be nice if somebody could state them rather than talking about "assurances" from un-named sources.

I also found this but I'd need to read much more about it and to be honest it won't change anything:

https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2022/09/qatar-domestic-laws-issued-in-relation-to-the-2022-world-cup-part-2/

Maybe the key part is "Qatar has a number of laws in place that require foreign nationals visiting the country to adhere to local customs, which are applicable to fans attending the World Cup tournament." I would guess that displaying rainbow symbols falls into this category but that is a guess. Or maybe it falls under "gestures in public or open spaces".

Maybe best leave it for FIFA to tell us what assurances they got and what laws were changed for the tournamanet.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

Al-Thawadi and other officials said "everyone is welcome". Does that seem to be the case? And do you think that in a country like Qatar, people like Al-Thawadi speak without the consent of the Sheikh? It was just all lies, and that would have been agreed to at the top.

[stockdam]

Al-Thawadi and other officials said "everyone is welcome". Does that seem to be the case? And do you think that in a country like Qatar, people like Al-Thawadi speak without the consent of the Sheikh? It was just all lies, and that would have been agreed to at the top.

Everyone is welcome doesn't mean that they can break the law. Playing devil's advocate here, where did he say that it would be ok to display rainbow symbols etc?
I blame FIFA here as they would have known full well what the law is in Qatar and they would have understood the potential risks. If they wanted people to have the right to wear rainbow armbands etc then they should have asked for a temporary change in the law.

People read what they want to into words. Being welcome and being able to display symbols that would get you arrested are two completely different things.

[oojason]

The best that I can find about Qatar's assurances is:

"police in Qatar had been briefed to be tolerant during the tournament under enabling law introduced for the finals, where minor offences will not be prosecuted."

If that is the case then what laws were introduced for the finals and what do these laws state? It could be that there are temporary laws and if so it would be nice if somebody could state them rather than talking about "assurances" from un-named sources.

Look through this thread mate and you'll find assurances from Qataris who are in charge of organising this World Cup - and some are also high ranking Qatari Govt officials...


This took 5 seconds to find on a google search...


'EXCLUSIVE: 'Rainbow flags' will be allowed at the Qatar World Cup' - a 2 minute from Sky News, with Nasser Al Khater - the CEO and Head of the Qatar World Cup, :-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/l0KJzaKRznE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/l0KJzaKRznE</a>

^ 'The Head of Qatar's World Cup tells Sky News that drunk football fans will be sent to special zones to sober up during the tournament. He also confirmed that gay fans will be welcome to display affection and rainbow flags, however FIFA will have to decide on captains wearing "One Love" armbands.'



'Qatar's World Cup leadership has offered FIFA the assurances that displays promoting LGBTQ rights will not be removed.':-

Rainbow flags will be allowed in stadiums at the 2022 World Cup after Qatar said it would comply with FIFA rules promoting tolerance and inclusion at matches despite the Arab country's strict anti-LGBTQ laws.

www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-world-cup/story/4258559/2022-world-cup-qatar-to-allow-lgbtq-displaysrainbow-flags-in-stadiums (article from 2020)

"When it comes to the rainbow flags in the stadiums, FIFA have their own guidelines, they have their rules and regulations," 2022 World Cup chief executive Nasser Al-Khater said. "Whatever they may be, we will respect them."

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

Oh c'mon. "Being welcome" includes being roughed up/arrested/ejected for wearing a coloured band? That's more than playing devil's advocate, it's agreeing that white is black and hot is cold. And what law does Qatar have about rainbows anyway?

[Black Bull Nova]

121 pages on the football, 137 pages on the non-football side of things, says a lot really


That eviction from the ground yesterday just takes the biscuit really, never really seen anything like that at 'World Event' celebrating a sport, disgusting.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Might just be the times I've paid attention but it looks like most of the FA delegates are shunning the prick,always looks to be sat by himself when at prior tournaments the head money grabber is usually surrounded.

[oojason]

Might just be the times I've paid attention but it looks like most of the FA delegates are shunning the prick,always looks to be sat by himself when at prior tournaments the head money grabber is usually surrounded.

Yeah, usually you see the dignitaries and politicians in the VIP areas fawning around the FIFA leader - photo ops and tv images and all that... this one - nobody wants to the be near him - unless they are making a point about rainbow flags and one-love armbands (with lots of body language and postures from them  they are not happy with him).


It'll be even worse for Infantino now on that score - given he was very loudly booed when his face appeared on the big tv screen in the stadium at the England-Wales game -
www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=305953.msg18613081#msg18613081 (even he looked taken aback by it and shifted uncomfortable in his very luxurious seat)


Today, he feels... toxic.

[Black Bull Nova]

Yeah, usually you see the dignitaries and politicians in the VIP areas fawning around the FIFA leader - photo ops and tv images and all that... this one - nobody wants to the be near him - unless they are making a point about rainbow flags and one-love armbands (with lots of body language and postures from them  they are not happy with him).


It'll be even worse for Infantino now on that score - given he was very loudly booed when his face appeared on the big tv screen in the stadium at the England-Wales game -
www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=305953.msg18613081#msg18613081 (even he looked taken aback by it and shifted uncomfortable in his very luxurious seat)


Today, he feels... toxic.

Today he feels like he may just take the multi-million pound back handers he's taken from his corrupt activities and then take a job as an advisor to someone or other in middle east on yet more multi-million pound pay and leave all this behind so he can spend some time in his horizon pool wondering how he can spend it all and watching Cristiano (locally) see out his playing days in non-competitive luxury.

[oojason]

'When V.I.P. Isn’t Exclusive Enough: Welcome to V.V.I.P.':-

Every sports venue has its own tiered system of luxury. The World Cup in Qatar is providing a reminder that there is always a higher level.

www.nytimes.com/2022/11/30/sports/soccer/qatar-world-cup-vip.html?


^ article in full here - https://archive.ph/N5Oec


'A member of the FIFA Council, the organization’s governing board, paced the lobby’s marble floors, a cellphone clamped to her right cheek. She was telling the person on the other end how many (free) tickets she required for each game. Another FIFA functionary was dispensing already acquired tickets to hotel guests.

The time to leave for the stadium drew close, and two women in navy blazers appeared, holding paddles directing guests to follow them — one for “FIFA V.I.P.s,” the other for “FIFA V.V.I.P.s.”

A few minutes later, a well-dressed couple received their tickets. The woman peeked inside. The news was bad. “Only V.I.P.,” she murmured.

In the driveway, the V.V.I.P.s were directed to a fleet of black S.U.V.s. that would ferry them to the match. The V.I.P.s had to take a bus.'

[oojason]

'World Cup 2022 pitch invader cartwheels during political protest as France vs Tunisia halted':-

The second pitch invader of the World Cup 2022 in Qatar arrived in the 68th minute of France's meeting with Tunisia on Wednesday afternoon, performing a cartwheel and backflip in the centre of the field

www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/breaking-world-cup-2022-pitch-28622411







a video of the protestor running onto the pitch: https://twitter.com/Master__Cricket/status/1597998191584026624

[Yorkykopite]

1. It's not about freedom of speech......in fact there's no such thing.
2. Their law is their law and whether we like it or not they are entitled to enforce it.
3. If somebody protests in the UK but is breaking the law then they may be arrested.
4. Yes you can protest in Qatar but don't be surprised if the police remove you etc.

I'm puzzled by this.

1. There is indeed such a thing as Free Speech. I'm amazed you don't know that. The differences between, say, Qatar and loads of other FIFA countries are vast when it comes to free speech.

2. A condition of Qatar being awarded the World Cup was that certain aspects of their vicious penal code would be suspended for the duration of the tournament. "Everyone was welcome" meant exactly that.

3. For sure, but obviously the UK is far more tolerant and far less punitive than Qatar. I think we'd all accept that.

4. I don't understand this. What you mean by it is, surely, you CAN'T protest. Or, at the very least, you can protest for a few seconds until the cops "remove" you.

[Red Beret]

But you cannot waive a law unless it comes from government. I don't know UK law well enough but I think that a temporary bill would probably need to be put in place to legalise the change plus the police would need to be briefed. I don't think anyone can decide to waive the law. I also don't know the law in Qatar but I guess they have a similar system.

I may be wrong but all the articles that I read were about "assurances from Qatar" but that means nothing unless the assurances came from somebody with authority. If FIFA didn't get a legal assurance then they are simply spreading misinformation. FIFA were not interested in anything other than the billions they would get. If the legal position wasn't sorted out then all it takes is one person to complain about the flags and then the authorities have to enforce the law.......they cannot ignore the law because "assurances" were given by the guy running the tournament.

The point is that assurances WERE given and they were given YEARS in advance - and were then pulled mere days before the tournament.

You can argue the legal semantics and Qatar's entitlement to do so, and FIFA might indeed be complicit in spreading misinformation if they knew the assurances were bullshit from the start. But there's a difference between enforcing your laws - when typically FIFA is able to gain compliance - and outright misleading competitors as to what is going on. 

Again, we're talking days before the tournament started.  These changes and assurances are often considered standard procedure, and just typical of a World Cup. If there were issues, FA's should have been kept informed.  But others on here have explained the situation better than I can.

[oojason]

A good point made by Karolos Grohmann, the Reuters sports & political journalist, on FIFA avoiding answering questions from the media...


'Key difference between IOC and FIFA:

- IOC had daily pressers in Sochi 2014, Beijing 2008, Beijing 2022, Rio 2016, all Games hit with issues beyond sport.
Like it or not, the IOC answered tough questions every day.

- FIFA has 0 daily pressers in #Qatar'

^ https://twitter.com/karolosgrohmann/status/1597886844657491968



and on other matters...


'Qatar stadium security detained a colleague for 30 mins yday because they did not believe his huge ankle brace was because of a major injury.
They told him "We have seen you walk."
Another wonderful tale from the aggressive security at the #WorldCup2022  in #Qatar.'

^ https://twitter.com/karolosgrohmann/status/1597617044643807232

[oojason]

.
Poland v Argentina














'The attendance for this match is 44,089' - www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/60976624 & https://twitter.com/alkasschannel/status/1598055724269150210

^  

The new capacity for Stadium 974 is 44,089. (It was 40,000 at the start of the World Cup): www.qatar2022.qa/en/tournament/stadiums/stadium-974




Mexico v Saudi Arabia










'The attendance for this match is 84,985' - www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/60976626 & https://twitter.com/alkasschannel/status/1598055106942885889

 

The new capacity for Lusail Stadium is 88,966. (It was 80,000 at the start of the World Cup): www.qatar2022.qa/en/tournament/stadiums/lusail-stadium

[blert596]

I never thought I'd wish to see good old run of the mill rival fans battling in the streets.

Although the violence is minimal in all these clips we're seeing it is just so sinister. A different type of violence.

[24/7]

I never thought I'd wish to see good old run of the mill rival fans battling in the streets.

Although the violence is minimal in all these clips we're seeing it is just so sinister. A different type of violence.

Political, you might say.

Ironically and tragically, one of the lasting legacies of this shitfest will be how hollow the mantra of "keep politics out of football" rings when you have inter-state-sanctioned violence against civilians watching a footie game.

Here's a thought, just out of thin air like.... never mind keeping politics out of sport, how much better would the world be if you kept religion out of politics?

I'm all for defending people's right to believe in sky fairies, or sea goddesses or cloud based overlords...... but see what happens when you present to the limelight of the world stage a state whose legislative framework is built on the shaky foundations of overly zealous religious fundamentalism (and the West does not hold a get out of jail free card there, look at places like the US or Poland for how laws are twisted to suit religion-based ideology).

[Red Beret]

If you want to keep sport out of politics, don't hold major sporting events in countries that are hotbeds of political and cultural controversy.

This isn't about keeping sport out of politics. It's about keeping fucking politics out of sport.

[darragh85]

can someone tell the guy posting the photos of the attendances that those empty seats are arabic men wearing thobes 

[oojason]

can someone tell the guy posting the photos of the attendances that those empty seats are arabic men wearing thobes 

[oojason]

'This is the side of the World Cup that Qatar would prefer you ignore':-

To walk around Qatar is to be blinded by lights, deafened by sounds, but the football has not distracted away from the debate around the most controversial World Cup in history, writes Miguel Delaney

www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/world-cup-2022-fifa-qatar-human-rights-lgbtq-b2234944.html

[oojason]

'How Iranians protested against country's regime during the World Cup' - a 2 minute video from Guardian Football:-

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ydHJSADcwlQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ydHJSADcwlQ</a>

^ 'Protesters used the slogan "woman, life, freedom" through chants, banners and printed T-shirts but encountered problems with Qatari authorities. This including one man being pinned to the ground after the Iran v USA game and others reporting being watched. Following Iran's exit from the tournament, celebrations took place back home as many see the football team as representing the government and not the people.'

[Skeeve]

^^^

FIFA forced Brazil to change their laws when it comes to alcohol in stadiums, but with Qatar? Not a peep. It is FIFA's tournament and there is precedent for removing it from a host nation if certain conditions are not met, regardless of the country's laws or beliefs.

As for the assurances, most of what I understand has come from reading these pages. If you're not in a position to guarantee the assurance you're making then you shouldn't be making it - and it shouldn't take until days before the tournament starts to realise the assurance isn't going to be honoured. It should have been known months, if not years in advance.

Don't make promises you can't keep - definitely don't make promises you have no intention of keeping.

That obviously implies that they had the slightest intention of keeping those promises and assurances, it is quite clear by now that they do not give a fuck about the usual approach to sportswashing and this is just about them showing to their regional neighbours how they can put the west and fifa in their place. The different timing for when they have done certain things shows careful calculation, they backtracked on the summer event very early since it is a more reasonable change, something like the beer at the stadiums was left until the last minute because that's one that will cost fifa money from a long term partner so had to be left until it was too late to change.

The obvious concern is that a Saudi bid is now likely to follow and having seen Qatar's success in riding roughshod over fifa, they may decide to take a somewhat similar approach on certain issues too.

[thaddeus]

I have to say, I find it very surprising how much of a shitshow this whole World Cup has become. My true expectation was that the games would be played, nothing would happen about rainbow flags or whatever and everyone would forget about what Qatar 2022 was. And now, we're in the middle of the tournament and instead of seeing which hooligan groups fought each other every day like in earlier World Cups, we're now getting daily updates about what the Qatari authorities have done to suppress freedom of speech and other democratic rights. I would never have thought that Qatar would want this to become a showing of how dictatorial a country it is, but I guess I was wrong. They don't give a fuck about that...

There'll be some serious rewriting of history and gaslighting off the back of this World Cup.  Think the Tories "we got all the big decisions right" line but 100x.  Nonsense like it being carbon neutral will become accepted facts, "greatest World Cup ever" will be parroted, first time an all female officiating team took charge of a game will be held up as the flagbearer for what a progressive World Cup it was etc.

Most of the biggest voices in football are smeared in the stink of this World Cup so they're going to jump on every opportunity they can to spin the positives as it helps their own consciences and public images.

[24/7]

There'll be some serious rewriting of history and gaslighting off the back of this World Cup.  Think the Tories "we got all the big decisions right" line but 100x.  Nonsense like it being carbon neutral will become accepted facts, "greatest World Cup ever" will be parroted, first time an all female officiating team took charge of a game will be held up as the flagbearer for what a progressive World Cup it was etc.

Most of the biggest voices in football are smeared in the stink of this World Cup so they're going to jump on every opportunity they can to spin the positives as it helps their own consciences and public images.

The Truth: Bend It Like Beckham...
 More Spin than a Roberto Carlos Free K8ck

[Mister Flip Flop]

Have to say im finding it very easy to stick to my promise to myself not to watch a single minute of any of these matches. Have avoided even the highlights stuff popping up on YouTube and just turn the channel on the TV if there is any reports about the football.  As a massive football fan i guess besides the moral issues around this particular world cup, international football in general is just really really shit and uninteresting of late. Probably something to do with the fact Ireland hasn't had a decent side since around 2002 but if they had a side that could string 2 passes together i doubt if i'd be that bothered anyway.

Can't wait until proper football returns in a few weeks 

[Son of Spion]

Have to say im finding it very easy to stick to my promise to myself not to watch a single minute of any of these matches. Have avoided even the highlights stuff popping up on YouTube and just turn the channel on the TV if there is any reports about the football.  As a massive football fan i guess besides the moral issues around this particular world cup, international football in general is just really really shit and uninteresting of late. Probably something to do with the fact Ireland hasn't had a decent side since around 2002 but if they had a side that could string 2 passes together i doubt if i'd be that bothered anyway.

Can't wait until proper football returns in a few weeks 

Yes, it's been very easy to avoid. I've not seen a second of it. It also helps that there seems to be so much apathy towards the whole thing in Liverpool at least. We've got a fan park two minutes walk from us but I've not even noticed anyone going to or from it. Judging by the odd photo I've seen and heard of it in the paper it looks like most of those in attendance have been students rather than locals.

It's all a bit barren at the moment. No takeover news coming through and no football to talk about on the main forum.

[oojason]

'Australia and Argentina criticise Fifa over World Cup scheduling':-

Both teams face three-day turnaround before last-16 game
‘We’re not robots, we need to recover,’ says Milos Degenek

www.theguardian.com/football/2022/dec/01/australia-and-argentina-criticise-fifa-over-crazy-world-cup-scheduling


'Australia and Argentina have criticised Fifa for scheduling their last-16 match three days after their final World Cup group games, saying the short turnaround treats players like “robots”.

The Socceroos defeated Denmark on Wednesday night and face a high-profile knockout game with Lionel Messi and Argentina on Saturday at 10pm local time.

Argentina have even less time to recover, having played their 2-0 win against Poland from 10pm – four hours after Australia’s game against Denmark – in a situation described as “crazy” by their coach, Lionel Scaloni.

At Russia 2018, teams who qualified for the knockout stages were given at least four days between their last group game and the last 16.'




^ 'Argentina’s Lionel Messi has played three group games in nine days before the knockout stage in Qatar'.

[oojason]

'‘Don’t get cards’: How Poland’s strange World Cup progression played out':-

Poland clung on for a 2-0 defeat by Argentina, until a late Saudi Arabia goal against Mexico finally settled frayed nerves

www.theguardian.com/football/2022/dec/01/dont-get-cards-how-polands-strange-world-cup-progression-played-out


'“They were shouting at us from the bench: ‘Don’t concede!’ ‘Don’t get cards!’” Piotr Zielinski said laughing, which he could at last do by then. “Strange,” the Poland midfielder called it. Somehow, they were still standing. They had lost their final group match 2-0 against Argentina but had survived a Lionel Messi penalty and 23 shots, including one cleared off the line in stoppage time, and progressed to the last 16 by virtue of having collected two yellow cards fewer than Mexico. Or at least that’s what they thought when the final whistle went.'

[oojason]

From a couple of weeks back - though still boycotting (www.lotta-koeln.de/)...


'Bars in Germany boycott Qatar FIFA World Cup':-

The mood in Germany in the run-up to a football World Cup has never been as subdued. In many pubs, the previously unimaginable is happening: There won't be any soccer matches shown during the World Cup.

www.dw.com/en/bars-in-germany-boycott-qatar-fifa-world-cup/a-63794873


'For 27 years, the cult pub Lotta in Cologne has witnessed all the electrifying moments in football. When FC Köln scores a decisive goal in extra time, the whole bar almost explodes. Complete strangers hug each other, drunk with victory. Kölsch beer flows in streams over the bar. The atmosphere gives you goosebumps.

With its two big screens, Lotta pulls in the punters when Germany's men's national team is playing, too. The collective primal scream after Mario Götze's goal in the 2014 World Cup final against Argentina has gone unforgotten.

So it would take quite something for Lotta co-owner Peter Zimmermann, a passionate football fan and season ticket holder at his beloved "Effzeh" — FC Köln for those who aren't locals — for 20 years, to make a decision that many landlords and landladies in Germany are making right now: For four weeks, the TVs at Lotta won't be showing any matches of the soccer World Cup, which kicks off in Qatar on Sunday.

"We want to set an example against this thoroughly corrupt FIFA system, where it's really all about money and human rights and the football culture don't matter at all," Zimmermann told DW. "And of course Qatar tops it all off: the oppression of women, discrimination against homosexuals and the appalling working conditions."'

[MH41]

That yellow card rule needs to be binned before it is used ever again.
Why should something arbitrary decide an outcome of a group, or a tie?
Yellow cards are subjective decisions by a particular referee, 8n a particular set of circumstances. A similar 'foul play' could be punished by a yellow in one game, but not in another.
And the referee was never going to book a Polish player near the end if he was aware of the circumstances (Lewandoski perhaps for his 2 fouls on Messi for example)
It's a shocking way to decide an outcome.
Not sure what it could be replaced by though.
I don't like for Instance, the number of corners, because again some are given, some are missed by the officials)
Shots on target perhaps, as it would reward attacking play?

[oojason]

That yellow card rule needs to be binned before it is used ever again.
Why should something arbitrary decide an outcome of a group, or a tie?
Yellow cards are subjective decisions by a particular referee, 8n a particular set of circumstances. A similar 'foul play' could be punished by a yellow in one game, but not in another.
And the referee was never going to book a Polish player near the end if he was aware of the circumstances (Lewandoski perhaps for his 2 fouls on Messi for example)
It's a shocking way to decide an outcome.
Not sure what it could be replaced by though.
I don't like for Instance, the number of corners, because again some are given, some are missed by the officials)
Shots on target perhaps, as it would reward attacking play?

I'm with you on that - trouble is.... what constitutes a shot on target? (a through ball that ends up in the keeper's arms that 'could' have gone in... as technically it was 'on target'? A blocked shot from a close-by defender that we haven't a clue if it was on target on not?).

I'm just spitballing, of course

[redgriffin73]

Have to say im finding it very easy to stick to my promise to myself not to watch a single minute of any of these matches. Have avoided even the highlights stuff popping up on YouTube and just turn the channel on the TV if there is any reports about the football.  As a massive football fan i guess besides the moral issues around this particular world cup, international football in general is just really really shit and uninteresting of late. Probably something to do with the fact Ireland hasn't had a decent side since around 2002 but if they had a side that could string 2 passes together i doubt if i'd be that bothered anyway.

Can't wait until proper football returns in a few weeks 

Same, I've seen clips of maybe 3 or 4 goals and that's it, I've checked the results some evenings just out of interest, but not read any match reports or anything other than what's in this thread really. Not even bothered, I wondered if I'd start missing it but I'm not even thinking about it, maybe the time of year helps as there just doesn't seem to be any kind of a buzz about it at all.

[rob1966]

Yes, it's been very easy to avoid. I've not seen a second of it. It also helps that there seems to be so much apathy towards the whole thing in Liverpool at least. We've got a fan park two minutes walk from us but I've not even noticed anyone going to or from it. Judging by the odd photo I've seen and heard of it in the paper it looks like most of those in attendance have been students rather than locals.

It's all a bit barren at the moment. No takeover news coming through and no football to talk about on the main forum.

Its been on in the background occasionally, usually the kids or the missus, but they get bored quite quickly and walk out the room, telly immediately gets switched over. I did see the disallowed goal last night when the kids shouted me, what a shambles that was. I've been working or listening to music rather than watch the games.

[Barneylfc∗]

That yellow card rule needs to be binned before it is used ever again.
Why should something arbitrary decide an outcome of a group, or a tie?
Yellow cards are subjective decisions by a particular referee, 8n a particular set of circumstances. A similar 'foul play' could be punished by a yellow in one game, but not in another.
And the referee was never going to book a Polish player near the end if he was aware of the circumstances (Lewandoski perhaps for his 2 fouls on Messi for example)
It's a shocking way to decide an outcome.
Not sure what it could be replaced by though.
I don't like for Instance, the number of corners, because again some are given, some are missed by the officials)
Shots on target perhaps, as it would reward attacking play?

One of the biggest flaws with this is what constitutes a shot on target. As an avid gambler I can tell you that some things that are considered as a shot on target are a joke.

One such example is a shot that is clearly going over the bar if a keeper doesn't touch it. If the keeper gets fingertips on it and the ref gives a corner, that is given as a shot on target, even though it wasn't going in.

I'm with you on that - trouble is.... what constitutes a shot on target? (a through ball that ends up in the keeper's arms that 'could' have gone in... as technically it was 'on target'? A blocked shot from a close-by defender that we haven't a clue if it was on target on not?).

I'm just spitballing, of course

For betting purposes, shots blocked by defenders aren't classed as a shot on target unless they are behind the keeper and prevent a goal. If the keeper is behind the defender, it's just a blocked shot whether he would've saved it or not.
A through ball that the keeper picks up is not a shot, as it has to be a deliberate attempt to score.
Corners where the player is clearly trying to score are not considered a shot on target unless the ball beats the keeper and a goal is scored.
Crosses that are mis-hit and result in a goal are considered a shot on target.