Poll

Tory Christmas Party

Nothing like a good old knees up!
They should apologise and come clean
Johnson should resign
The front bench should resign
The entire party should resign
The entire party should be put in an Elon Musk rocket and fired off to jupiter with 2 packets of hula hoops and a pot noodle
I LOVE cheese!

Author Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!  (Read 1163976 times)

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17000 on: April 21, 2021, 05:40:39 pm »
Education funding was increased in 2019...

But it was right for nearly a decade before hand so it papered over cracks.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
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Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17001 on: April 21, 2021, 05:42:22 pm »
Education funding was increased in 2019...

But it was right for nearly a decade before hand so it papered over cracks.

How much in real terms?
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17002 on: April 21, 2021, 05:57:07 pm »
How much in real terms?
Not sure, but it was a real terms increase for the first time in yonks(I think it worked out at about 5%).. teachers got a 2.75% pay rise too(as they keep leaving the profession).

It was a PR stunt of course.  There was a plan to start teachers on £30k by increasing the starting salary.

That has now been scrapped.

We still cant get teachers.

And a one off year isn’t any good as education funding has been plagued by below inflation rises for a decade.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17003 on: April 21, 2021, 06:43:29 pm »
PMQs is pointless again.  Johnson just evading questions and the speaker not holding him to account.

A direct question about whether the government will commit to the continued funding of the global Polio vaccination scheme that was answered by Johnson listing how much money the UK has invested historically.  No attempt to answer the actual question.  Next question.
That’s not important.

Did you see Starmer get kicked out the pub by that completely normal, extremely pleasant guy though?

Offline TSC

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17004 on: April 22, 2021, 08:05:17 am »
Business Secretary responds to question on sky news about PM texting Dyson that he would ‘fix’ his tax issue by saying “people contact ministers all the time”.

Nothing to see here then, just business as usual.

Offline 12C

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17005 on: April 22, 2021, 08:52:30 am »
Business Secretary responds to question on sky news about PM texting Dyson that he would ‘fix’ his tax issue by saying “people contact ministers all the time”.

Nothing to see here then, just business as usual.

Are they still telling lies about the swanky Dyson Ventilator being important to the health service?
Despite them never actually making one because it was all a Dyson publicity stunt. Unlike McClaren who used an existing design and actually manufactured them.

It’s all shite. The same shite that DeLoitte pulled getting Barbour to make scrubs and calling them PPE.

Bill Esterson highlighted a Kirby PPE manufacturer, family run and with a successful business record, who were unable to navigate the process for applying for contracts - even with his intervention they were frozen out of the process whilst the crooked donors and pub landlords were all showered with Johnson’s largesse.

I’ve said it before. Johnson’s backers are Russian money men. They got their money from the same sort of corruption and kleptocratic Chumocracy that looted Russia after the fall of the Communist regime. Johnson has just made one of his closest contacts a peer. He just happens to be the son of a Russian money man and ex KGB who suddenly became very rich.
What is sickening is that the Peerages committee have the nerve to actually come out and say that he and Johnson brother are not there because of Johnson.

Never mind “Fire Sale U.K. “
this is a give away
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17006 on: April 22, 2021, 11:19:56 am »
I’ve said it before. Johnson’s backers are Russian money men. They got their money from the same sort of corruption and kleptocratic Chumocracy that looted Russia after the fall of the Communist regime. Johnson has just made one of his closest contacts a peer. He just happens to be the son of a Russian money man and ex KGB who suddenly became very rich.
What is sickening is that the Peerages committee have the nerve to actually come out and say that he and Johnson brother are not there because of Johnson.


It is all linked to Brexit, too.

Different groups who drove and funded the whole anti-EU campaign had different motivations. Anti-regulationist free-marketeer zealots were one; self-styled patriot tossers another. But the main one, the group that provided the bulk of the funding, were those desperate to keep the British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies out of legislation being pushed by the EU to rip back the veil of secrecy that these sub-jurisdictions provide for finances, but more especially for hiding assets through labyrinthine shell company set-ups.

They're most used by tax-dodgers, dictators and their family/friend networks, organised criminal gangs, drug traders - and corrupt, thieving Russian oligarchs and the like.

There's actually a huge industry in servicing that flow of money, the bulk of which goes through London. There's accountants, lawyers, bankers, facilitators, currency exchangers, plus an array of services helping these scumbags 'invest' their hidden assets - a lot of that investment in the UK, and especially London (helping keep the property market inflated). A lot of jobs depend on this illicit flow. And, of course, as they require GBP to shift their ill-gottens and tax-dodging money, it provides a boost to demand for - and therefore the value of - Sterling.


A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17007 on: April 22, 2021, 01:25:57 pm »
Bbc reporting the cabinet office is investigating the ‘leak’ of Johnson’s text messages with Dyson.

Offline TSC

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17008 on: April 22, 2021, 01:41:49 pm »
Meanwhile the Trussell Trust reports reliance on its food banks increased by 33% in the last 12 months.  Prior year figures was in itself a record rise.  Over 2.5m food bank parcels have been handed out in the last 12 months, 1m of which went to children.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17009 on: April 22, 2021, 02:47:14 pm »
London Mayoral candidate Count Binface has some policies worthy of consideration:

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Welshred

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17011 on: April 22, 2021, 03:09:44 pm »
I laughed out loud at number 6

Offline TSC

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17012 on: April 22, 2021, 03:43:45 pm »
I laughed out loud at number 6

Number 16 alone would get my vote.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17014 on: April 22, 2021, 04:38:22 pm »
Bbc reporting the cabinet office is investigating the ‘leak’ of Johnson’s text messages with Dyson.


Yeah, not "Were the actions dodgy as fuck?" but "Right, who grassed?"

Priorities, innit.

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Thepooloflife

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17015 on: April 22, 2021, 06:07:42 pm »
London Mayoral candidate Count Binface has some policies worthy of consideration:


Nos.14 & 18 are tops !

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17016 on: April 22, 2021, 07:40:12 pm »
https://mobile.twitter.com/Nikhedonia11/status/1385275484636856325

Our PM embarrassing the UK again.  Bunny huggers should swerve.

Offline Snail

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17017 on: April 22, 2021, 09:27:38 pm »
Jess Phillips deleted this tweet after it turned out the person who murdered Phoenix Netts was a cis woman. There was nothing to ever suggest it was a trans woman, only her own assumptions.



A thread about it here:

https://twitter.com/Henriettaspoon/status/1384934012670590977?s=20

Nothing will be done, the same as nothing's ever been done about Rosie Duffield. In the hierarchy of discrimination within the Labour party, the trans community can consider themselves at the bottom, with the wider LGBTQ+ community not all that much further up.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17018 on: April 22, 2021, 09:33:37 pm »
Jess Phillips deleted this tweet after it turned out the person who murdered Phoenix Netts was a cis woman. There was nothing to ever suggest it was a trans woman, only her own assumptions.



A thread about it here:

https://twitter.com/Henriettaspoon/status/1384934012670590977?s=20

Nothing will be done, the same as nothing's ever been done about Rosie Duffield. In the hierarchy of discrimination within the Labour party, the trans community can consider themselves at the bottom, with the wider LGBTQ+ community not all that much further up.
I under stand Jess Phillips concerns about protecting women, but she goes so far OTT on trans issues that she loses the work she does.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline Snail

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17019 on: April 22, 2021, 10:05:03 pm »
I under stand Jess Phillips concerns about protecting women, but she goes so far OTT on trans issues that she loses the work she does.

She's just a regular ol' bigot and we shouldn't shy away from calling her that.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17020 on: April 22, 2021, 10:10:17 pm »
I laughed out loud at number 6

Number 16 has secured my vote.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17021 on: April 22, 2021, 10:12:23 pm »
She's just a regular ol' bigot and we shouldn't shy away from calling her that.
It’s much more complicated than that.

Reducing the trans vs feminism debate to bigot/not bigot is reductive and unhelpful,  and doesn’t lead to healthy discussion.

However Graham Linehan went so far ott it was absurd, Jess Phillips isn’t as bad, but shares some of the same traits. 

She annoys me a fair bit.
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W

Offline Snail

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17022 on: April 22, 2021, 10:16:40 pm »
It’s much more complicated than that.

Reducing the trans vs feminism debate to bigot/not bigot is reductive and unhelpful,  and doesn’t lead to healthy discussion.

However Graham Linehan went so far ott it was absurd, Jess Phillips isn’t as bad, but shares some of the same traits. 

She annoys me a fair bit.

Blaming the murder of Phoenix Netts on a trans woman without any evidence and banging on about how "women's (her idea of women) spaces are being invaded" and then quietly deleting the tweet once it turns out the murderer was a cis woman is bigoted, sorry. There seems to be a lot of leeway when it comes to transphobia.

But yes, an incredibly irritating individual and it deeply amuses me when people suggest she's a future Labour leader.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17023 on: April 22, 2021, 10:18:50 pm »
Blaming the murder of Phoenix Netts on a trans woman without any evidence and banging on about how "women's (her idea of women) spaces are being invaded" and then quietly deleting the tweet once it turns out the murderer was a cis woman is bigoted, sorry. There seems to be a lot of leeway when it comes to transphobia.

But yes, an incredibly irritating individual and it deeply amuses me when people suggest she's a future Labour leader.
Her assumptions were wrong. She should have made that clear. It was wrong.

She’s no future Labour leader though
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17024 on: April 22, 2021, 10:36:16 pm »
Blaming the murder of Phoenix Netts on a trans woman without any evidence and banging on about how "women's (her idea of women) spaces are being invaded" and then quietly deleting the tweet once it turns out the murderer was a cis woman is bigoted, sorry. There seems to be a lot of leeway when it comes to transphobia.

But yes, an incredibly irritating individual and it deeply amuses me when people suggest she's a future Labour leader.
Are we talking a honest mistake here or bigitory? I don't know but quick search says.
Jess Phillips controversy
In a tweet sent on 28 February Jess Phillips MP referred to the woman charged with Netts' murder as a man, in line with earlier news reports that referred to the suspect with male pronouns



 as far as being a future Labour leader goes then she's a far better choice than many of the people who have stood for the leadership over the last few yrs. will she cock up every now and then? am sure she will but it doesn't seem to matter much these days as long as the public nod along with the arguments you make, imo,she talks in language most people will nod along with.
 

« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 10:38:11 pm by oldfordie »
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17025 on: April 22, 2021, 11:31:26 pm »
Her assumptions were wrong. She should have made that clear. It was wrong.

She’s no future Labour leader though

A person, especially a politician, shouldn't be allowed to throw a prejudice grenade like that and get away with quietly backtracking though. It's embarrassing, but far more constructive to the debate to openly admit you made a mistake. 

Too often, we get the damaging headline and nobody notices the retraction.
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17026 on: April 23, 2021, 12:09:01 am »
Jess Phillips deleted this tweet after it turned out the person who murdered Phoenix Netts was a cis woman. There was nothing to ever suggest it was a trans woman, only her own assumptions.



A thread about it here:

https://twitter.com/Henriettaspoon/status/1384934012670590977?s=20

Nothing will be done, the same as nothing's ever been done about Rosie Duffield. In the hierarchy of discrimination within the Labour party, the trans community can consider themselves at the bottom, with the wider LGBTQ+ community not all that much further up.

Is there anyone that you approve of, that doesn't have any negative history whatsoever?
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17027 on: April 23, 2021, 12:33:12 am »
Is there anyone that you approve of, that doesn't have any negative history whatsoever?

This subject is personal to me and I have been pretty consistent in my view that I genuinely feel like the party is not a safe place for members of the LGBTQ+ community because of people like Phillips and Duffield, so spare me the snidery. Zero tolerance only goes so far, I guess.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17028 on: April 23, 2021, 12:46:38 am »
This subject is personal to me and I have been pretty consistent in my view that I genuinely feel like the party is not a safe place for members of the LGBTQ+ community because of people like Phillips and Duffield, so spare me the snidery. Zero tolerance only goes so far, I guess.

So what do you suggest? Labour expel Phillips and Duffield? Or that Corbyn is brought back into the fold to even things up? (since that is what your comment about zero tolerance is clearly about).
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17029 on: April 23, 2021, 08:31:23 am »
You really need to stop bringing Corbyn into the argument all the time, especially when he's not been mentioned or involved in the conversation/topic whatsoever.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17030 on: April 23, 2021, 09:06:45 am »
Labour expel Phillips and Duffield?

Yes.

Offline Sangria

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17031 on: April 23, 2021, 09:36:52 am »
You really need to stop bringing Corbyn into the argument all the time, especially when he's not been mentioned or involved in the conversation/topic whatsoever.

Except she's deliberately rehashing the arguments made against Corbyn, except redirecting them to be against his enemies. And as she's subsequently posted, she wants the same treatment for them.
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17032 on: April 23, 2021, 09:39:46 am »
The argument has absolutely nothing to do with Corbyn whatsoever.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17033 on: April 23, 2021, 09:49:21 am »
Except she's deliberately rehashing the arguments made against Corbyn, except redirecting them to be against his enemies. And as she's subsequently posted, she wants the same treatment for them.

Who's she, mate? The cat's mother?

You're dead wrong, by the way. I want Labour to expel Duffield and Phillips because I think they're dangerous. I'd appreciate it if you just accepted that rather than making up fantasies.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 09:51:10 am by Snail »

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17034 on: April 23, 2021, 09:56:02 am »
Who's she, mate? The cat's mother?

You're dead wrong, by the way. I want Labour to expel Duffield and Phillips because I think they're dangerous.

I can't disagree. But I think there are more effective ways of getting the LGBT case across than you're doing, based on national inclinations, and the fact that the Tories are in power and will continue conceivably for another decade or two. Labelling people and winning the argument on the left doesn't work; you'll purify the left to your satisfaction and get to win the moral high ground on the left, and the Tories will continue on their merry way. Party-independent arguments, with plenty of references to the services and WW2, works better across the board (see Joanna Lumley's Gurkha campaign).
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Snail

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17035 on: April 23, 2021, 10:24:30 am »
I can't disagree. But I think there are more effective ways of getting the LGBT case across than you're doing, based on national inclinations, and the fact that the Tories are in power and will continue conceivably for another decade or two. Labelling people and winning the argument on the left doesn't work; you'll purify the left to your satisfaction and get to win the moral high ground on the left, and the Tories will continue on their merry way. Party-independent arguments, with plenty of references to the services and WW2, works better across the board (see Joanna Lumley's Gurkha campaign).

See again, you've written a condescending paragraph about me wanting to "purify the left" when it's just about right and wrong. I'll leave it there if that's alright.

Online Elmo!

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17036 on: April 23, 2021, 10:30:26 am »
Thought this was qutie interesting... Sarwar continuing to impress while Starmer is stagnant. It may just be because we have an election and Scottish Labour are coming out with some interesting policies.

I don't trust Sarwar at all but he is playing the role of the 'adult in the room' and trying to put the indy debate to the side and focus on other non-constitutional issues quite well. It certainly puts him in contrast with all the other Scottish Leaders apart from maybe the Greens in that regard.

Europe Elects
@EuropeElects
UK (Scotland), YouGov poll:

Leader net approval

Sturgeon (SNP-G/EFA): +25 (-2)
Sarwar (LAB-S&D): +18 (+15)
Starmer (LAB-S&D): -21 (-1)
Ross (CON-ECR): -33 (-12)
Johnson (CON-ECR): -38 (+4)

+/- vs 4-8 Mar

Fieldwork: 16-20 April 2021
Sample: 1,204

Offline Sangria

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17037 on: April 23, 2021, 10:38:54 am »
See again, you've written a condescending paragraph about me wanting to "purify the left" when it's just about right and wrong. I'll leave it there if that's alright.

Complaining about condescending and again mounting the high ground. Let me pose a question, where I'm not sure where there is high ground, or where the liberal left should take a position. I've grown up with the idea that liberalism should support feminism. I've grown up with the idea that liberalism should support LGBT rights.

So there's been comments from old school feminists, from the 60s and 70s vintage, that they have been demonised by younger LGBT activists. JK Rowling is one notable example, while Suzanne Moore has said that a large band chased her out of the Guardian.

I don't have a label that attaches me to any of the groups. I'm not female. I'm not LGBT. I've been brought up to favour liberalism. But in this case, where two of the groups, neither of whom to which I belong, but both of which I was brought up to favour, label each other as wrong. Where does the right and wrong lie, and on what general philosophical grounds do I know which from which? Feminism, or LGBT?
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Sangria

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17038 on: April 23, 2021, 10:42:43 am »
Thought this was qutie interesting... Sarwar continuing to impress while Starmer is stagnant. It may just be because we have an election and Scottish Labour are coming out with some interesting policies.

I don't trust Sarwar at all but he is playing the role of the 'adult in the room' and trying to put the indy debate to the side and focus on other non-constitutional issues quite well. It certainly puts him in contrast with all the other Scottish Leaders apart from maybe the Greens in that regard.

Europe Elects
@EuropeElects
UK (Scotland), YouGov poll:

Leader net approval

Sturgeon (SNP-G/EFA): +25 (-2)
Sarwar (LAB-S&D): +18 (+15)
Starmer (LAB-S&D): -21 (-1)
Ross (CON-ECR): -33 (-12)
Johnson (CON-ECR): -38 (+4)

+/- vs 4-8 Mar

Fieldwork: 16-20 April 2021
Sample: 1,204

Depending on how the numbers go in a couple of years time (remember Starmer was the most popular Labour leader since peak Blair circa 1997), the smart move may be to retain Sarwar and highlight him in Scotland whilst replacing Starmer with someone that complements Sarwar south of the border.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Online Elmo!

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #17039 on: April 23, 2021, 10:48:39 am »
Although Sarwar was caught out in a lie by Ciaran Jenkins yesterday which just drives home why, despite him impressing, he won't gain the trust of many people.

https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1385311529462022144