Topic: Liverpool's Midfield

[Flaccido Dongingo]

We're signing that lad from Lyon for midfield next summer lads, Aouar and #Mbappe2020 will do for me.

[Too early for flapjacks?]

Against some of the genuine park the bus teams I'd love to see Ox play in Henderson's position and Keita in Gini's position. Might see it in the League Cup against Milton Keynes later this month.

[lionel_messias]

We're signing that lad from Lyon for midfield next summer lads, Aouar and #Mbappe2020 will do for me.

Aouar Misses!

Would be a great headline.

(I have heard about this lad, and would agree).

[SerbianScouser]

0 goals from our entire midfield these 7 games is not good.

Looking forward to seeing more of Naby and Ox in our team soon.

[mercurial]

Trent scored. The 3 in our midfield are not tasked to score. Robertson and Trent actually provide the overlapping run wide, so opening up Salah and Mane to make the creative passes, runs or the penetration balls. Having Ox and Keita will possibly add some more goals but not a massive difference given how we play now. I don't see klopp changing the pattern of the midfield. So a few runs into the box when Keita or Ox plays maybe. If they do that consistently then the full backs have to drop to cover the counter. So I don't think there will be a huge difference to creating chances or goals either way. It is just that our thinking is drilled with a attacking midfielder scoring goals and creating chances. Klopp broke that pattern with the full back proving to be the players providing the passes. That results in our wide forwards scoring more like strikers when in reality none of the front 3 are classified to be strikers traditionally and when they arrived here none thought we were getting a striker. I  guess the fault is in our football education. 😊

[Fromola]

0 goals from our entire midfield these 7 games is not good.

Looking forward to seeing more of Naby and Ox in our team soon.

Fabinho and Henderson are great but aren't likely to score many, they have other functions in the team.

We need that third midfielder to contribute though. Gini doesn't do enough for me, at least away from home a lot of the time. Ox or Keita can hopefully do more if they can get fully up to speed and stay fit.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

0 goals from our entire midfield these 7 games is not good.

Looking forward to seeing more of Naby and Ox in our team soon.

That's not going to change. The midfield wasn't scoring last year either and it won't this year. Their job isn't to score. That's quite clear by now

[El Lobo]

0 goals from our entire midfield these 7 games is not good.

Looking forward to seeing more of Naby and Ox in our team soon.

Who would you drop from your preferred Milner/Gini/Ox midfield to accommodate Naby though?

[Hazell]

That's not going to change. The midfield wasn't scoring last year either and it won't this year. Their job isn't to score. That's quite clear by now

Yeah and what did our midfield achieve last season? Exactly, proved his point.

[jepovic]

Two of Henderson, Milner and Gini gives us problems in buildup and creativity IMO. One is enough, and should be replaced by Keita or Ox. But yeah, six wins so not gonna happen. This Klopp fella seems to know quite well what to do.

Fabinho though, he's just a level above the rest.

[El Lobo]

That's not going to change. The midfield wasn't scoring last year either and it won't this year. Their job isn't to score. That's quite clear by now

Not to throw meaningless stats around, but Tom Cleverley has scored more this season than our entire midfield. Fact.

[mallin9]

If Wijnaldum could shoot as well as he does everything else he'd be an all time great. As it stands think he'll settle for being part of all time teams

[Knight]

It really shouldn't be so difficult for us to keep the ball considering how good we are.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

It really shouldn't be so difficult for us to keep the ball considering how good we are.

When you're tired, you make mistakes in possession.

[markmywords]

Trent scored. The 3 in our midfield are not tasked to score. Robertson and Trent actually provide the overlapping run wide, so opening up Salah and Mane to make the creative passes, runs or the penetration balls. Having Ox and Keita will possibly add some more goals but not a massive difference given how we play now. I don't see klopp changing the pattern of the midfield. So a few runs into the box when Keita or Ox plays maybe. If they do that consistently then the full backs have to drop to cover the counter. So I don't think there will be a huge difference to creating chances or goals either way. It is just that our thinking is drilled with a attacking midfielder scoring goals and creating chances. Klopp broke that pattern with the full back proving to be the players providing the passes. That results in our wide forwards scoring more like strikers when in reality none of the front 3 are classified to be strikers traditionally and when they arrived here none thought we were getting a striker. I  guess the fault is in our football education. 😊

That's the problem, when you rely heavily on fullbacks to create. In big games away from home, especially when we go 1 - 0 up, our fullbacks seem to play more conservatively in these games and unlike most top teams midfielders, ours that we tend to pick for these games (milner, hendo, fab, gini) aren't able to simply up their creativity to compensate.  It's one of the big reasons our win rate in these games in the last yr or so is so patchy compared to City

[JC the Messiah]

Fabinho and Henderson are great but aren't likely to score many, they have other functions in the team.

We need that third midfielder to contribute though. Gini doesn't do enough for me, at least away from home a lot of the time. Ox or Keita can hopefully do more if they can get fully up to speed and stay fit.

Why do we need it?

[PhaseOfPlay]

When you're tired, you make mistakes in possession.

Unless you're Pogba

In which case, you don't even need to be tired

[Shaved Crossbar]

Why do we need it?

Because we may well end up struggling for goals at points this season, and that third midfielder slot is our best shot to add more goals to the team

[Sangria]

If Wijnaldum could shoot as well as he does everything else he'd be an all time great. As it stands think he'll settle for being part of all time teams

Is he an archaeologist?

[JC the Messiah]

Because we may well end up struggling for goals at points this season, and that third midfielder slot is our best shot to add more goals to the team

... or the midfield continue to be the platform that keeps on helping us win, as it has for so long?

[markmywords]

It really shouldn't be so difficult for us to keep the ball considering how good we are.

Keeping the ball under pressure, maybe isn't one of the things that we are good at, (today we weren't that good at using the ball either, I can barely remember a chance we created from open play!).  Especially when you look at the characteristics of our midfield players, we are brilliant at many other things though (pressing, tracking runners, staying fit, positioning).

[PhaseOfPlay]

It really shouldn't be so difficult for us to keep the ball considering how good we are.

The other players are also good, and they want the ball too. Possession isn't that easy, that's why clubs pay good money for people who can do it (and also for Pogba)

[BrandoLFC]

I don't think you spend over £120m in transfer fees with the resulting wages in a 12 month period on one part of the team unless you believe it could and should be better.  That doesn't mean Klopp and the players here before don't deserve commendation and adoration for the way they've molded the midfield to really amazing heights since those players were added.  They of course do.

With that said I think today's game, and even Napoli in midweek, highlight why the club saw this as something that needed to be improved.  Klopp and Co. have created this amazingly effective system where Salah is front and center and then the fullbacks are the creative hub servicing him and the rest of the front 3.  The midfield is there to contain and press and 90%+ of the time in the last 18-24 months it works amazingly well.

The issue though is TAA and Robbo still need to defend as they are after all defenders.  The midfield can't take over defending their space as they still need to contest midfield as well.  You then end up at times where the front 3 is completely cutoff from any effective service when TAA and Robbo are pushed back and have to defend.  We then resort to long punts up the field in the general direction of Salah which means the ball is coming right back at us.  This is of course oversimplified but on the whole that's what we saw for the last 35 minutes of the game yesterday.

Ask yourself this, if Ox never blows out his knee and Keita replicates his RBL form while not picking up injuries are they not starting every game with Fabinho?  In my mind they are and it then means TAA and Robbo are the icing on the cake, not the flour and we're not as susceptible to one off games where they're nullified and we end up kind of toothless.  Yes we scored two goals but when you look at our offensive stats from that game that was not a great performance especially against a Chelsea team that seem to want to give up scoring chances for fun.

[Ghost Town]

Is he an archaeologist?

He's visited many a pit, and dug us out of many a hole, and brushed off a load of fossils and antiques

[Redcap]

Ask yourself this, if Ox never blows out his knee and Keita replicates his RBL form while not picking up injuries are they not starting every game with Fabinho?  In my mind they are and it then means TAA and Robbo are the icing on the cake, not the flour and we're not as susceptible to one off games where they're nullified and we end up kind of toothless.  Yes we scored two goals but when you look at our offensive stats from that game that was not a great performance especially against a Chelsea team that seem to want to give up scoring chances for fun.

I dunno. I think Gini and Hendo are actually both pretty decent going forward. Not as good as Ox or Keita, but they are each useful, particularly for scoring goals. Gini in particular has demonstrated this for the Netherlands.

I don't think failing to score was as much down to our midfield not being capable of contributing. I think we made a tactical decision (as we did all last season) not to press the midfield into more attacking positions.

[SerbianScouser]

That's not going to change. The midfield wasn't scoring last year either and it won't this year. Their job isn't to score. That's quite clear by now

Naby was starting to score goals towards the end of last season, Ox definitely got goals in him too.

Even bigger problem is that not only our current AMs don't score goals or even look likely to they also don't create anything. In one of the most attacking teams in the world it shouldn't be acceptable. Changes should be made and if it doesn't work fair enough, but we need to demand more than 0 goals and 0 assists. That's just really bad.

[Doc Red]

That's not going to change. The midfield wasn't scoring last year either and it won't this year. Their job isn't to score. That's quite clear by now

I think it's misleading to assume that just because our midfield didn't score last season it thereby means they're not set out to score.
Certainly, Henderson, Milner, and Wijnaldum aren't going to score goals, but that's partly because of their profile.
I'm fairly certain had Oxlade-Chamberlain and Keita played (or were available) for the majority of the season than we'd see the goalscoring stats increase for that position.

I think it's more accurate to say that the way we play, and with the attacking three that we have, that a midfield that doesn't contribute in scoring isn't going to be a potential key obstacle for us to win. But it doesn't mean we're not set up for the midfield to score. It's why we brought in Oxlade-Chamberlain and Keita, midfielders with the profile that checks several boxes for Klopp (physical, quick, technical, eye for a goal+pass, quick on the ball,and comfortable making the risky pass, comfortable on the ball under pressure) and unfortunately injuries have prevented us from seeing exactly what Klopp expects from his midfield.

It's funny to think that the players brought in to challenge Wijnaldum, Milner, and Henderson (in his current role), haven't been available for the majority of their time here. Imagine how different our midfield could look or benefit from having both of them healthy and active for an extended period of time.

[Max_powers]

Naby was starting to score goals towards the end of last season, Ox definitely got goals in him too.

Even bigger problem is that not only our current AMs don't score goals or even look likely to they also don't create anything. In one of the most attacking teams in the world it shouldn't be acceptable. Changes should be made and if it doesn't work fair enough, but we need to demand more than 0 goals and 0 assists. That's just really bad.

Margins for error are very slim. We are on 15 game winning streak. Coming off a 97 point season. Whatever we are doing is working as well as it probably can.

I am afraid Keita and Ox will have to earn their way into the first XI by putting in excellent performances in cup games.

[groove]

That's not going to change. The midfield wasn't scoring last year either and it won't this year. Their job isn't to score. That's quite clear by now

1 goal and 4 assists for David Silva and 2 goals and 7 assists for KDB in the league so far this season. Henderson and Wijnaldum have yet to register a goal or an assist in the league yet. Given the output of their front three is similar to our front three then you can not expect our full backs to make up the difference. If this is by design, then it's just a bad design.

[Coolie High]

1 goal and 4 assists for David Silva and 2 goals and 7 assists for KDB in the league so far this season. Henderson and Wijnaldum have yet to register a goal or an assist in the league yet. Given the output of their front three is similar to our front three then you can not expect our full backs to make up the difference. If this is by design, then it's just a bad design.

But we are top of the league.... I would say how easily we're conceding chances it seems, or not being able to keep the ball adequately enough in parts of the game yesterday is more of a worry than the midfielder scoring more goals.

[Wool]

1 goal and 4 assists for David Silva and 2 goals and 7 assists for KDB in the league so far this season. Henderson and Wijnaldum have yet to register a goal or an assist in the league yet. Given the output of their front three is similar to our front three then you can not expect our full backs to make up the difference. If this is by design, then it's just a bad design.

Yeah. Finishing on 97 points and winning the CL last season was awful.

[number 168]

But we are top of the league.... I would say how easily we're conceding chances it seems, or not being able to keep the ball adequately enough in parts of the game yesterday is more of a worry than the midfielder scoring more goals.

Perhaps the two are linked? Our midfield historically aren't prolific to say the least, but they do work their socks off and break up lots of play to help the defence. Fabinho does a great job but are Hendo and Gini as effective? It will be interesting when Naby returns as part of his game is a terrier like desire to clase down and get the ball. Whatever happens a few more goals from midfield would be useful.

[groove]

Yeah. Finishing on 97 points and winning the CL last season was awful.

I liked it when you quoted a post directly comparing us to City then actually posted '97 points' in your reply.

[wige]

1 goal and 4 assists for David Silva and 2 goals and 7 assists for KDB in the league so far this season. Henderson and Wijnaldum have yet to register a goal or an assist in the league yet. Given the output of their front three is similar to our front three then you can not expect our full backs to make up the difference. If this is by design, then it's just a bad design.

18/19 Stats:

Goals from City's midfield = 17 (D Silva, B Silva, KDB, Fernandinho, Gundogan, Foden)

Goals from Liverpool's midfield = 17 (Keita, Henderson, Milner, Gini, Fabinho, Shaqiri)


---

Assists from City's midfield = 24 (KDB, D Silva, B Silva, Gundogan, Fernandinho, Delph)

Assists from Liverpool's midfield = 13 (Keita, Fab, Shaq, Hendo, Milner)

Assist from Liverpool's Full backs = 23

----

Think we're ok.

[reddebs]

I understand how and why other fans criticise our midfield but when our own fans do it it's a proper head scratcher.

We have our own plan, our own way of playing and our own way of using our midfield. 

We are innovators not sheep.

*waits for PoP to burst that bubble*

[groove]

*snip*

Got my fingers crossed that KDB only plays 900 minutes again.

18/19 cumulative xG
Man City - 93.72
Liverpool - 79.46

19/20 cumulative xG
Man City - 20.99
Liverpool - 11.77

[groove]

Sorry, I get how my posts just seem needlessly negative and snarky so I'll try something more meaningful: I disagree with Klopp's go to selection of Henderson-Wijnaldum. It's just too blunt. I get, with Keita injured, that his options are slightly limited but he's often gone with an overly-conservative midfield selections when more creative options were available, particularly the United and Everton 0-0s last season stand out in this regard.

Compare this to Guardiola and I think Pep hardly ever goes conservative in these situations - possibly only in the game against us at Anfield where they clearly valued workrate over creativity - and that's obvious to see why: in a direct head-to-head match against us not allowing us the three points is a huge win, mathematically. In all other games, where he knows City are going to be huge favourites then he always fields as an attacking a team as he can. Three forwards and two genuinely attack-minded midfielders. This is where they are picking up extra xG over us. This is where they are creating better and more numerous chances than us. And over the course of a 38 game season, this is where it is likely to tell.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

not being able to keep the ball adequately enough in parts of the game yesterday is more of a worry than the midfielder scoring more goals.

Agree with this, but:

I dunno. I think Gini and Hendo are actually both pretty decent going forward. Not as good as Ox or Keita, but they are each useful, particularly for scoring goals. Gini in particular has demonstrated this for the Netherlands.

I mean... Henderson has his traits, mostly off-the-ball in my mind, but I don't think we can ever put 'scoring goals' and 'useful' in the same sentence when it comes to describing his assets. He's not even 1 in 10 throughout his Liverpool career.

It doesn't really worry me, but his inability to help us take the sting out of opposition's momentum in the middle third does when he's not giving us anything in the final third either. He should have been hooked much earlier yesterday. Completely understandable him tiring as he put a hell of a lot in against Napoli and in the first 60, but a fresher & better technical player like Lallana or Oxlade to help us move up the pitch would've been more useful in the final 20.

[Bolrick]

Good 1st half......... 2nd half was meh. I reckon we just took for foot of the gas as it is too early in the season to go gungo like what city are doing now.

The only part that worries me is that we are playing  with a higher line compared to the previous season. The defence looks worse as a result. The stats  show that it is working points wise..... the optics of it, is another issue.

[redk84]

Way i see it...

Fab should be a mainstay
Other 2 rotate accordingly but, only one of Hendo/Milly at same time in a midfield
Gini usually the other

Our midfield will perform just fine in most scenarios.....facilitating things between our exceptional front 3 and back 4

More options this season and hopefully if a couple can hit good form we'll be fine