Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"

[Yorkykopite]

Though Yorky, and you may or may not agree, I see disturbing signs that the English vision of Ireland currently (and perhaps other world regions) more resembles the worst days of colonialism (perhaps early mid 19th C) than in the past century?

Is that a fair comment?  I think to the Blair/Major/Aherne period when Ireland was regarded as important, a fellow traveller, and compare to the worst days of 200 years ago and beyond. I see a disturbing return to those ancient views. 

Is there a parallel to the current English mindset re Brexit?

Lots of shite stuff has been revealed because of Brexit. Really ignorant stuff. And none more so when the question shifts to Ireland and the backstop. It's almost as if Parnell has yet to arrive on the scene. Some of these fucking Tories are back in the 1840s.

It does make you wonder how the chauvinism must have been there in a dormant state for so long, waiting for an opportunity to express itself. I'm embarrassed as an Englishman, but practically every single English person I know is embarrassed too.

I know of no parallel in my own lifetime. Even when IRA bombs were going off in England I don't remember any powerful current of anti-Irish feeling or finger-jabbing at the Republic.

[Mutton Geoff]

The English language isn't bad.

Well I'm quite fond of it any road.

I like footy too.

footy is ok at a local level but English is a bastardised language based on bits of all who conquered it plus a bit of celtic language

[oldfordie]

Oliver nails it when he diagnoses that courage is needed, courage on the part of MPs to make the right decision and jib off Brexit altogether.

All those who like to go on about the Blitz and the world wars stuff, fail to understand that those were examples of people showing courage in the face of extraordinary danger and risks. The opposite is what is happening now; almost all our MPs, plus a large section of the public, lack the courage to face up to the truth and do what needs to be done; to accept that a mistake has been made and that many of them were wrong.

It takes a braver person to admit their error and change tack than it does to keep going ahead blindly and take the rest of us off a cliff with them.

It does take guts to stand up to the rabble when you know your going to take a lot of shit which is why I have so much respect for Owen Smith during the leadership debates, others would have cowered when the abuse and ridicule was thrown, he walked to the edge of the stage and met it head on. we desperatly needed a leader like that 2 yrs ago, never happened and look where we are now.
I remember watching a old man crying when the referendum result was announced, he was crying with joy, ive got may country back, ive got my country back, all the leave supporters cuddling him looking so happy, I didn't get angry, just thought, you poor ba,, what have they done to you.

[Robinred]

That's excellent.

It certainly is. Right on every point.

[BarryCrocker]

That's excellent.

The flower grower scene was the epitome of your typical Brexiter.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

The flower grower scene was the epitome of your typical Brexiter.

Didn't really think about the business side of things,would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious.People like him are the real reason why Corbyn won't call for a peoples vote,he is shit scared that the result would be remain.

[Iska]

Main reason not to do it is that if someone wants to import into Britain and you want to export into their country then if their goods are already at 0% tariffs then why do they need bother agreeing to let your companies compete in their country?

In relation to this, I saw this exchange this morning:

Honda is closing its UK plant: A warehouse capable of holding 9 days’ worth of components to ensure continuity of UK production would need to be roughly 300,000m2 = one of largest buildings on earth = 42 football pitches, 3* Amazon’s main US dist centre.

Besides: the new Japan -EU free trade deal means they can build in Japan & import direct to EU tariff free. They no longer need U.K. plant to proxy for them into the EU anyway. Brexit or not.

What the U.K. is really losing is the ability to sell direct to Japan tariff free.

In other words, with brexit the UK is taking on itself the costs of the EU-Japan FTA, and cutting itself out of the benefits.

[Kashinoda]

@Channel4News - "Forty-four days away from Brexit and they haven't got a clue." A Honda worker accuses the government of "completely incompetent handling" of Brexit and "idiocy of epic proportions".

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1097579713382490112?s=20

[Alan_X]

@Channel4News - "Forty-four days away from Brexit and they haven't got a clue." A Honda worker accuses the government of "completely incompetent handling" of Brexit and "idiocy of epic proportions".

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1097579713382490112?s=20

This was further down the thread:

[Zeb]

In relation to this, I saw this exchange this morning:In other words, with brexit the UK is taking on itself the costs of the EU-Japan FTA, and cutting itself out of the benefits.

Was actually thinking of your comments reading something this morning. To have any sort of tariffs post-Brexit, without some form of agreement with the EU, will require Parliament to actually legislate for them. Without that, we're on zero tariffs for everything by default. Which sounds like fun.

edit: sorry, source is George Peretz (QC specialising in trade law etc.).

[CraigDS]

Swindon - also voted for Brexit, right?

So that’s 3,500 jobs going from there and a fair few in Sunderland likely to go at Nissan, both of which were strong Brexit voters.

[stewil007]

Swindon - also voted for Brexit, right?

So that’s 3,500 jobs going from there and a fair few in Sunderland likely to go at Nissan, both of which were strong Brexit voters.

But the Brexity MP for Swindon said it was nothing to do with brexit and everything is just being consolidated in the Japanes factories and world outlooks and stuff, nothing to do with Brexit, I for one believe him.........

[BarryCrocker]

But the Brexity MP for Swindon said it was nothing to do with brexit and everything is just being consolidated in the Japanes factories and world outlooks and stuff, nothing to do with Brexit, I for one believe him.........

Yep, definitely has nothing to do with you're no longer in a market you export 90% of your production to.

[Alan_X]

But the Brexity MP for Swindon said it was nothing to do with brexit and everything is just being consolidated in the Japanes factories and world outlooks and stuff, nothing to do with Brexit, I for one believe him.........

And even if he’s right, it shows the importance of being in a strong position when doing trade deals. The EU/Japan deal will benefit both sides.

How exactly is the UK’s position strengthened by Brexit?

[Yorkykopite]

But the Brexity MP for Swindon said it was nothing to do with brexit and everything is just being consolidated in the Japanes factories and world outlooks and stuff, nothing to do with Brexit, I for one believe him.........

Honda's not really going anyway. It's just Project Fear.

[FlashingBlade]

If Honda's  decision was nothing to do with Brexit they  would say it wasnt because they don't want to alienate a potential market across the UK for future sales....if it was related to Brexit they would say it wasn't because.....

But hey it's  gonna be global Britain who can attract businesses to the UK for Jobs and investment..companies like Honda.....

[OneTouchFooty]

“It because if the Japan-EU free trade... diesel... global trends..etc.”

Right, how many Japanese companies are fleeing mainland Europe? Why are business that have nothing to do with diesel leaving the UK and moving the EU? Which other countries are seeing investment cut, jobs cut and companies moving business en masse in the past 18 months?

These dangerous zealots are going destroy this country for the next few decades.

[FlashingBlade]

Just read a few industry reports and the FT and for a decision that has nothing to do with Brexit according to local  MP etc the issues affecting the Japanese car manufacturers in UK by Brexit do seem to crop a helluva lot not least that despite entering EU trade deal which would reduce tariffs to 0% Japanese cars built in UK would have to pay WTO tariffs to export cars across the channel.

No such major decision will be made on one factor..but to deny that Brexit has no cause is the prelude to the lies and lies Brexiteers will tell themselves and everyone else for any downturn caused by Brexit....whereas any perceived success will be heralded as won by Brexit regardless of cause.

[killer-heels]

Just read a few industry reports and the FT and for a decision that has nothing to do with Brexit according to local  MP etc the issues affecting the Japanese car manufacturers in UK by Brexit do seem to crop a helluva lot not least that despite entering EU trade deal which would reduce tariffs to 0% Japanese cars built in UK would have to pay WTO tariffs to export cars across the channel.

No such major decision will be made on one factor..but to deny that Brexit has no cause is the prelude to the lies and lies Brexiteers will tell themselves and everyone else for any downturn caused by Brexit....whereas any perceived success will be heralded as won by Brexit regardless of cause.

The MP said that because either he is pro leave or its a government line to say that to avoid bad press.

[FlashingBlade]

The MP said that because either he is pro leave or its a government line to say that to avoid bad press.

 


Both!

[Red Beret]

It's going to happen, and it's going to be bad, and those responsible will blame everybody but themselves.

People will die.  Millions will experience a level of poverty and misery not seen for close to 50 years in some areas; perhaps 30 years in others.

If there's a revolution, I'll pick up my stick and join it happily.  In the meantime though I will be sticking my head in the sand and just hope it all goes away.  I'm done being a lightning rod for the suffering of others.  We've been brought to this by absolute criminals; incompetence, greed.

I'm beyond depression on this matter now.  It's just black despair.  And this is from somebody who doesn't own a TV, or read the newspapers.  Because politics is such a major trigger for my emotional and mental health.  Everything I get, I get through here.  And just reading these pages over the past 3 years or so has been enough.

Barely three years to see a certain world turned so upside down.  My brain has gone to bed.

[FlashingBlade]

There won't be a revolution.
As I've said before the affluent and influential will remain affluent and influential..those economically protected will remain so...the poor and dispossesed will remain so...maybe more of them....it is and always has been working people will pay the price.

It will be a slow decline in standard of living for working
people ..Britain wont stop functioning....there will be headline grabbing events..lorries at Dover....empty food shelves...but Britain is great at believing it's own propaganda and things will 'carry on'...it will only be after 5 years that people will realise things are more expensive...social issues got worse...employment rights degraided...but by then the Tory Goverment will have got it's 'who to blame' ducks in a line..EU...5th Columists...Labour ( what's left of it)....and like the 80 's ..The People of Liverpool.

....their may be riots in North London though  when Avacodas become unavailable.

[Currywurst]

Could someone repost the link to that John Oliver YouTube clip. All I get is a 30 second clip on Trump's national emergency (amusing though it is ).

[oldfordie]

“It because if the Japan-EU free trade... diesel... global trends..etc.”

Right, how many Japanese companies are fleeing mainland Europe? Why are business that have nothing to do with diesel leaving the UK and moving the EU? Which other countries are seeing investment cut, jobs cut and companies moving business en masse in the past 18 months?

These dangerous zealots are going destroy this country for the next few decades.

Thats the way I look at it. it's about having a edge on other countries, these companies don't operate just to survive, they will not have the Dunkirk spirit, they will chop the weak link, companies based in the UK have now become the weak link. they will be the first to go when it's time to restructure.

[Zeb]

Could someone repost the link to that John Oliver YouTube clip. All I get is a 30 second clip on Trump's national emergency (amusing though it is ).

Here until it's not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXZS6glCt_o

Brexit segment starts about 7m45 in.

[Currywurst]

Here until it's not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXZS6glCt_o

Brexit segment starts about 7m45 in.

Thanks for that. No wonder the rest of the world think we're absolutely fucking nuts to do it, but are so completely pissed off with our childish foot-stamping tantrums of deluded superiority.

[Rhi]

There won't be a revolution.
As I've said before the affluent and influential will remain affluent and influential..those economically protected will remain so...the poor and dispossesed will remain so...maybe more of them....it is and always has been working people will pay the price.

It will be a slow decline in standard of living for working
people ..Britain wont stop functioning....there will be headline grabbing events..lorries at Dover....empty food shelves...but Britain is great at believing it's own propaganda and things will 'carry on'...it will only be after 5 years that people will realise things are more expensive...social issues got worse...employment rights degraided...but by then the Tory Goverment will have got it's 'who to blame' ducks in a line..EU...5th Columists...Labour ( what's left of it)....and like the 80 's ..The People of Liverpool.

....their may be riots in North London though  when Avacodas become unavailable.

Nailed it.

[cowtownred]

Nailed it.

Omitted the important part.  2nd Indyref in Scotland, and an imminent border poll in Ireland.

[Kashinoda]

This was further down the thread:

https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/687892162583855105

[FlashGordon]

You certainly have. Plenty of English people have highlighted it too, sought to rectify things, given help to Ireland, criticised and opposed our own state. For generations. The English may have had their fair share of imperialists (the Scots even more so), but they had their fair share of anti-imperialists too.

I thought your comment was trash actually. Uncharacteristic trash, since you're a reasonable and interesting poster, but still trash.

I'm going to speak for myself here but it might be in line with the views of a few other Irish people who post on this part of the forum too.

For me anyway I think I use the phrase 'Brits' or 'English' a bit too generally when espousing my views and thoughts. What I really mean is the wankers who still hark back to the days of colonialism and Britannia rules the waves etc.

I think I've said in the past that our two islands will always be intrinsically linked due to a number of factors; geography, economics, language, common interests etc.

I can't stress enough how much reading these boards has opened my eyes to just how alike the majority of us are and how it has changed my view of the 'old enemy'. It has never been the intention of the average English man to pillage and oppress us and that is why our ire should always be turned towards those of the upper class and those who were in power at the time.

The majority of the posters here have provided me endless amounts of reading material and lead me down many a dark hole on Wikipedia and I'm grateful for that. I've learned a lot on here and it has definitely shaped my views politically. Just to single out yourself I had never heard of Keir Hardie until I saw you mention him on here. 

It's always been somewhat a weird affinity for me with Liverpool as a football team and as a city. It started with liking the football team when I was younger and then grew in to a love affair. Learning about the history of the city and the political views of the majority have only helped to further that love affair and it now extends to the city and people not just the team I see on TV.

I say weird because I suppose when I was younger I felt anger and resentment towards anything 'English' yet I spoke the language, followed a team from there, had relations who lived there and continue to do so. As I've gotten older I have learned to separate any ill feelings I had towards the powers of the past and my new found appreciation of the country it is today.

Then Brexit happened and I can only speak for myself here and say I'm worried. I'm worried for the everyday man and woman in Britain and Ireland. What happens with Northern Ireland and any talks of a hard border are certain to bring an emotive response through the fear I have for the future. Again it feels like the top brass have shown a blatant disregard for our country and have no conscience when it comes to the repercussions of their power trip.

I hold my hands up and apologise if I've come across as a teenager full of pent up aggression in relation to any of the discourse I've had with people on this thread, I would like it to be known that any anger is never aimed at them more so at the toffs who have again shown a blatant disregard for the people below them in both countries.

[FlashingBlade]

I'm going to speak for myself here but it might be in line with the views of a few other Irish people who post on this part of the forum too.

For me anyway I think I use the phrase 'Brits' or 'English' a bit too generally when espousing my views and thoughts. What I really mean is the wankers who still hark back to the days of colonialism and Britannia rules the waves etc.

I think I've said in the past that our two islands will always be intrinsically linked due to a number of factors; geography, economics, language, common interests etc.

I can't stress enough how much reading these boards has opened my eyes to just how alike the majority of us are and how it has changed my view of the 'old enemy'. It has never been the intention of the average English man to pillage and oppress us and that is why our ire should always be turned towards those of the upper class and those who were in power at the time.

The majority of the posters here have provided me endless amounts of reading material and lead me down many a dark hole on Wikipedia and I'm grateful for that. I've learned a lot on here and it has definitely shaped my views politically. Just to single out yourself I had never heard of Keir Hardie until I saw you mention him on here. 

It's always been somewhat a weird affinity for me with Liverpool as a football team and as a city. It started with liking the football team when I was younger and then grew in to a love affair. Learning about the history of the city and the political views of the majority have only helped to further that love affair and it now extends to the city and people not just the team I see on TV.

I say weird because I suppose when I was younger I felt anger and resentment towards anything 'English' yet I spoke the language, followed a team from there, had relations who lived there and continue to do so. As I've gotten older I have learned to separate any ill feelings I had towards the powers of the past and my new found appreciation of the country it is today.

Then Brexit happened and I can only speak for myself here and say I'm worried. I'm worried for the everyday man and woman in Britain and Ireland. What happens with Northern Ireland and any talks of a hard border are certain to bring an emotive response through the fear I have for the future. Again it feels like the top brass have shown a blatant disregard for our country and have no conscience when it comes to the repercussions of their power trip.

I hold my hands up and apologise if I've come across as a teenager full of pent up aggression in relation to any of the discourse I've had with people on this thread, I would like it to be known that any anger is never aimed at them more so at the toffs who have again shown a blatant disregard for the people below them in both countries.

That's a very good post. Thanks.

 Liverpool people are (mostly) intrinsicly linked to Ireland ( my mother's family lineage is Irish my Dads from Scotland) ..so your unlikely to get the little bigoted Englander mentality here on RAWK plus most Liverpool fans from outside of Liverpool tend to be intelligent ( ok I'm on thin ice here ) and buy into Liverpool culturally...think it's fair to say if you had chosen other English teams then it's unlikely you would find such common ground.

Ireland has been shafted by the Brexit vote...in part because neither side in the argument in the lead up to the regerendum fully registered the implications....the people of Ireland are fully entitled to be furious about the outcome of a no deal and their lack of control over it...so add that to the historical relationship and that in the North there are those who would love a border...it is indeed worrying times.

The biggest problem isn't that the little Englander will wish to fuck Ireland...it's they just don't care. But here there are people who do care ieven if we don't agree on options or outcomes.

[FlashGordon]

That's a very good post. Thanks.

 Liverpool people are (mostly) intrinsicly linked to Ireland ( my mother's family lineage is Irish my Dads from Scotland) ..so your unlikely to get the little bigoted Englander mentality here on RAWK plus most Liverpool fans from outside of Liverpool tend to be intelligent ( ok I'm on thin ice here ) and buy into Liverpool culturally...think it's fair to say if you had chosen other English teams then it's unlikely you would find such common ground.

Ireland has been shafted by the Brexit vote...in part because neither side in the argument in the lead up to the regerendum fully registered the implications....the people of Ireland are fully entitled to be furious about the outcome of a no deal and their lack of control over it...so add that to the historical relationship and that in the North there are those who would love a border...it is indeed worrying times.

The biggest problem isn't that the little Englander will wish to fuck Ireland...it's they just don't care. But here there are people who do care ieven if we don't agree on options or outcomes.

Thanks mate, you're right the over riding feeling of helplessness is the worst thing about the situation. It's good to see that there's many people out there who do care even if the usual suspects don't.

Not sure how it's going to play out now, I was confident that decency and sanity would come to the fore to avoid any disasters, that has quickly vanished though.

[Yorkykopite]

I'm going to speak for myself here but it might be in line with the views of a few other Irish people who post on this part of the forum too.

Thank you very much for that. Appreciated.

I echo what you say about the profound links between our two countries. At its best it's been a genuine two way street as well. To take one obvious example, what we regard as 20th century English literature wouldn't be what it was without the influence and example of Shaw, Wilde, Yeats, Joyce, Beckett, Heaney etc etc. To take another Liverpool football wouldn't be Liverpool without the regular infusions, over the century, of Irish talent into the club. And at a working-class level, especially, England and Ireland have been neighbours in our towns and cities for generations - without rancour or resentment.

You mention Hardie. I have in front of me an original copy of the 'Report of the Labour Commission to Ireland', published 1921. You can guess what it was about. The party wanted to investigate the atrocities committed by British forces in southern Ireland over the previous year and didn't trust Whitehall to do a proper job. So it commissioned its own investigators. The document, which runs to 120 pages of closely argued text, was undertaken - in part at a least - to educate Englishmen on what was being done in their name over in Ireland.

I mention this because, although it's a spectacular example of solidarity it is also symptomatic of something that is characteristic in English, or British, life and which oughtn't to be taken for granted. For every vile of act of slavery or imperialism committed by the British state over the centuries there has been an almost immediate act of political exposure, criticism and fight back. From the attempted impeachment of Warren Hastings and Burke's (another Irishman in England) great defence of the American Revolution in the British House of Commons, to Wilberforce and the press coverage of atrocities like Amritsar or Hola (or indeed the burning of Cork city in 1920) there has always been a force to counter the official version and seek some kind of restitution. 

[Iska]

Also the number of the Britons who are of Irish descent (and I suppose probably to a lesser extent vice versa), it would need a bit of unpacking even if if it was meant it that way.

[FlashGordon]

Thank you very much for that. Appreciated.

I echo what you say about the profound links between our two countries. At its best it's been a genuine two way street as well. To take one obvious example, what we regard as 20th century English literature wouldn't be what it was without the influence and example of Shaw, Wilde, Yeats, Joyce, Beckett, Heaney etc etc. To take another Liverpool football wouldn't be Liverpool without the regular infusions, over the century, of Irish talent into the club. And at a working-class level, especially, England and Ireland have been neighbours in our towns and cities for generations - without rancour or resentment.

You mention Hardie. I have in front of me an original copy of the 'Report of the Labour Commission to Ireland', published 1921. You can guess what it was about. The party wanted to investigate the atrocities committed by British forces in southern Ireland over the previous year and didn't trust Whitehall to do a proper job. So it commissioned its own investigators. The document, which runs to 120 pages of closely argued text, was undertaken - in part at a least - to educate Englishmen on what was being done in their name over in Ireland.

I mention this because, although it's a spectacular example of solidarity it is also symptomatic of something that is characteristic in English, or British, life and which oughtn't to be taken for granted. For every vile of act of slavery or imperialism committed by the British state over the centuries there has been an almost immediate act of political exposure, criticism and fight back. From the attempted impeachment of Warren Hastings and Burke's (another Irishman in England) great defence of the American Revolution in the British House of Commons, to Wilberforce and the press coverage of atrocities like Amritsar or Hola (or indeed the burning of Cork city in 1920) there has always been a force to counter the official version and seek some kind of restitution.

Another thing for me to have a read through 

Just a quick reference to the Labour party here, it deeply saddens me to see people like yourself and others on here who are clearly labour through and through and have an extensive knowledge of the party being driven out of the party you love.

I can see that the problems with the retelling of history on both sides of the Irish sea is that it's very blinkered. I was never thought by teachers or parents/grandparents about any negative reaction on the British side to any actions carried out in her name overseas.

That's what I love about this place, you're constantly learning and broadening your horizons.

[Linudden]

Listen to F1 testing there's worries they will move their factories to Europe too.

If Mercedes, Red Bull and Renault (with significant foreign ties) repratriate their teams to either home or Switzerland, they still will be looking to move all their UK-majority personel with them since that's where the expertise lies or they might as well gift Ferrari the title already . Anyway, F1 has very few races within the European Union nowadays (Spain, Austria, France, Germany, Hungary, Belgium, Italy so 7 out of 21), so I don't think the F1 teams would be moving imminently, because it won't save that much money anyway, because moving a company that doesn't sell products on a mass scale is really expensive.

It still might be a good opportunity to go to Switzerland for a few of them if they're members of the single market and Britain isn't, with the low Swiss taxes in theory making running a team out of there very cheap. That being said, it all depends. If there's significant work permit restrictions on Brits even going to Germany, let alone the existing ones in Switzerland, then the teams will gain nothing from a move anyway. Mercedes might want to relocate to Stuttgart regardless, becoming a proper German team, and would use it as an excuse, but aside from that, I don't see any teams moving. Red Bull is not a car maker, so it has to build infrastructure from scratch in Austria to move into for example.

That being said, F1 is not in a good state at all at the moment anyway and the shocking decision to expand the calendar to 24 races in the near future won't help either. The only racing series' with positive trends at the moment are MotoGP and IndyCar. Looking at it from a wider perspective both F1 and NASCAR are having serious issues with the quality of racing and the TV figures.

[FlashingBlade]

Thanks mate, you're right the over riding feeling of helplessness is the worst thing about the situation. It's good to see that there's many people out there who do care even if the usual suspects don't.

Not sure how it's going to play out now, I was confident that decency and sanity would come to the fore to avoid any disasters, that has quickly vanished though.

Here is a story to emphasise the relationship between Liverpool fans and  Ireland...back very late Seventies or possibly early Eighties...I cant place it , we played Chelsea at Anfield....packed house with a big mob of Chelsea there...now these where clearly different times also height of the Troubles with bombings in England.....now at half time George read out a score from a big Rugby Union game ROI v England..now then the Liverpool crowd would be 90/95% Scouse....ROI won and the was a huge fucking cheers around the ground..Chelsea fans went fucking ballistic as this..rightly... showed a partisan support for Ireland at a time when Ireland...and Republicans ...where the enemy of England.

Always rather proud of that anecdote. But don't think it would repeated nowadays due to diversity of match going fans.

We're not English, We are Scouse.

[FlashGordon]

Here is a story to emphasise the relationship between Liverpool fans and  Ireland...back very late Seventies or possibly early Eighties...I cant place it , we played Chelsea at Anfield....packed house with a big mob of Chelsea there...now these where clearly different times also height of the Troubles with bombings in England.....now at half time George read out a score from a big Rugby Union game ROI v England..now then the Liverpool crowd would be 90/95% Scouse....ROI won and the was a huge fucking cheers around the ground..Chelsea fans went fucking ballistic as this..rightly... showed a partisan support for Ireland at a time when Ireland...and Republicans ...where the enemy of England.

Always rather proud of that anecdote. But don't think it would repeated nowadays due to diversity of match going fans.

We're not English, We are Scouse.

That's a great anecdote and put a smile on my face 

Although I will say I love the back and forth with the English lads in the rugby thread.

Coincidentally it was that very banner that really piqued my interest in the city/fanbase/culture at the time.

[FlashingBlade]

That's a great anecdote and put a smile on my face 

Although I will say I love the back and forth with the English lads in the rugby thread.

Coincidentally it was that very banner that really piqued my interest in the city/fanbase/culture at the time.

Of course my view might be squeewed in a certain way...don't forget Liverpool is ..I think...only English  City outside NI and Glasgow to have Orange Lodge Marches....in for former life I had pleasure of refusing telephone request from the  Grand Master of Liverpool Orange Lodge to hang Union Jacks off Lamp Columns up Everton Brow in the 12th one year...not saying they didn't do it anyway...gave him technical / legal reasons for refusal ....but really wanted to say no,  cos your all fucking morons.

[FlashGordon]

Of course my view might be squeewed in a certain way...don't forget Liverpool is ..I think...only English  City outside NI and Glasgow to have Orange Lodge Marches....in for former life I had pleasure of refusing telephone request from the  Grand Master of Liverpool Orange Lodge to hang Union Jacks off Lamp Columns up Everton Brow in the 12th one year...not saying they didn't do it anyway...gave him technical / legal reasons for refusal ....but really wanted to say no,  cos your all fucking morons.

Nowhere is ever 100% perfect, you should be happy to settle for 99%.