Topic: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!

[Jm55]

The other two were Chelsea (The handball above his head which should have been a pen - first game of the season and the Salah dodgy offside - dodgy VAR lines) - the second one (not league) with Chelsea (Ignoring the ludicrous disallowed Virgil goal) was the deliberate stamp on Gravenberch not even being given as a foul.

I honestly just don’t have an issue with that handball on the first game of the season, the player jumped, and when you jump people often tuck their arms in, particularly if you’ve been told to keep them tight to your body to avoid them hitting a ball, again, it’s one of them that if the referee gives it VAR doesn’t overturn it and I’ll rarely moan about that as my position is that VAR’s remit should be lessened as it’s the sole biggest issue I have with the game at the moment (ignoring City’s cheating etc).

I think the tackle on Gravenberch should have been a red personally but there’s an argument to the contrary by Dale Johnson, again, I don’t agree with it but it is at least based on knowledge of what referees do and don’t look for and similar examples - my position on it is I don’t see how the Jones one can be a red and that not but I do understand the argument.

The Salah one just seemed a case of the kind of scenario I’m trying to argue against happening, a marginal offside which nobody in the stadium had  problem with being dissected by a group of people with video technology, it’s fucking bulllshit but I don’t think y here’s anything dodgy about it.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I honestly just don’t have an issue with that handball on the first game of the season, the player jumped, and when you jump people often tuck their arms in, particularly if you’ve been told to keep them tight to your body to avoid them hitting a ball, again, it’s one of them that if the referee gives it VAR doesn’t overturn it and I’ll rarely moan about that as my position is that VAR’s remit should be lessened as it’s the sole biggest issue I have with the game at the moment (ignoring City’s cheating etc).

I think the tackle on Gravenberch should have been a red personally but there’s an argument to the contrary by Dale Johnson, again, I don’t agree with it but it is at least based on knowledge of what referees do and don’t look for and similar examples - my position on it is I don’t see how the Jones one can be a red and that not but I do understand the argument.

The Salah one just seemed a case of the kind of scenario I’m trying to argue against happening, a marginal offside which nobody in the stadium had  problem with being dissected by a group of people with video technology, it’s fucking bulllshit but I don’t think y here’s anything dodgy about it.

Yeah. Look how natural and tucked in his hands are there.

[xbugawugax]

The level of corruption some people on here seem to genuinely believe in means there’s no chance we’ll be allowed to win the league. Completely pointless paying any attention.

actually thats the level im at. hardly watch any matches nowdays. you just know the ref is just going to fuck up sooner or later.

usually just check live score and watch some highlights later. the cheats and pmgol really have sucked the fun out of football for me.

[Jm55]

Yeah. Look how natural and tucked in his hands are there.

His arms are about where I think it’s reasonable for them to be if you’re trying to keep them out of the ball’s way whilst jumping which is ironic given what transpired.

As I say, if it’s given on the pitch I doubt it gets overturned, it wasn’t given on the pitch and I therefore don’t have an issue with it not being overturned.

You obviously disagree which is fine but I just don’t think it’s a clear cut example, certainly not compared with the Arsenal, City and Spurs situations.

[Fromola]

That tosser Mike Dean making a big deal of United shouldn't have had a pen against them the other night.  He backs up every decision against us. Big game on tomorrow is there Mike.

[Son of Spion]

I actually disagree, better to get very worked up about something that in the grand scheme of things doesn't really matter. If you were to go around getting worked up over the state of the world/direction of humanity, you'd be fucked.

There's a lot in that. In many ways, getting worked up about things like football can act as something of a safety valve. It's long been said that attending football matches, screaming for your team and giving the ref and the opposition some stick is a great stress release and a distraction from the worries of everyday life.

I think it can be similar on forums. Too many people carry the weight of the world on their shoulders and worry about so many things they have no influence over. Every issue is like another heavy rock they carry on their backs. I think a lot of us release those wider frustrations via forum interaction.

To be honest, I've spent over three quarters of my life learning how to stop letting my worries about the wider world drag me down into despair and depression. I can't carry those rocks around on my back anymore. Especially when I have zero control over outcomes there. I definitely think forum interaction here helps keep me sane. It gives us room for expression. I can't do anything over state ownership or appalling refereeing either, but talking about it still helps a little.

I don't have the stamina some have shown on this thread, though. So I read more than I post. It's been a good thread in many ways. A shame it got a bit personal at times, but both sides and those in between have argued their cases well.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

There's a lot in that. In many ways, getting worked up about things like football can act as something of a safety valve. It's long been said that attending football matches, screaming for your team and giving the ref and the opposition some stick is a great stress release and a distraction from the worries of everyday life.

I think it can be similar on forums. Too many people carry the weight of the world on their shoulders and worry about so many things they have no influence over. Every issue is like another heavy rock they carry on their backs. I think a lot of us release those wider frustrations via forum interaction.

To be honest, I've spent over three quarters of my life learning how to stop letting my worries about the wider world drag me down into despair and depression. I can't carry those rocks around on my back anymore. Especially when I have zero control over outcomes there. I definitely think forum interaction here helps keep me sane. It gives us room for expression. I can't do anything over state ownership or appalling refereeing either, but talking about it still helps a little.

I don't have the stamina some have shown on this thread, though. So I read more than I post. It's been a good thread in many ways. A shame it got a bit personal at times, but both sides and those in between have argued their cases well.

Shut up you stupid git!!!


Agreed, there have been some really good points raised. And that's what a forum is about - discussion - people have argued that people should stop moaning, but it's a thread on a board made for discussing shit.

At the end of the day absolutely nothing anyone says on these boards makes no difference - it matters to no one. The refs don't give a fuck. PGMOL don't give a fuck. LFC don't give a fuck. The manager and players don't give a fuck. This is just us shooting the shit and arguing the toss.

Bet they'd fix that as well!! Fuckers!!

[Timbo's Goals]

One final question for the grown ups here who have been able to argue without simply wumming or lying about me to incite a pile on, if, as many believe here believe there is no systematic corruption, rather it is a case of subconscious bias that cannot be eliminated , what can the answer ever be? We will never remove unconscious bias in any field. Any referee presumably loved football enough when they were kids to have pretty strong opinions on Liverpool and all the other top clubs. And given our stature in the game, that will be true of them whether they grew up supporting a premier league club or a non league one. Everyone grows up aware of the premier league and will have a soft spot for certain teams and be against another one. Everyone on this little island comes from cities that have their own rivalries with other cities. Everyone has had experiences with people, whether it be massive things or simply they've been next to a gobby family of cockneys with Arsenal shirts on an all inclusive holiday and decided they hate them. There's no way you ever remove it. Some will have soft spots for us, others will have disliked us. Unless we can get robots to referee matches then human beings are never infallible and you just have to trust in their training and professionalism. How else can football ever work?

 

So in the three instances which have wrecked my head and could still potentially end up sabotaging our title hopes, are you now attributing the absurdity of those decisions - the Diaz goal and the Odegaard and Doku pens - as arising from a subconscious bias of the VAR officials?

Because if you do then it completely flabberghasts me.

If we just take the two pens. Odegaard moves his hand towards the ball and handles it. A clear foul. Doku tackles MacAllister chest high. Again a clear foul. Because they are such 100% clear cut offences the only way in which the fouls cannot be given is if the VAR simply does not want to rule the offences - which the VAR must be able to see with crystal clarity with all the replay/slow motion facility at his disposal - in Liverpool's favour. And because of that clarity of each offence it simply cannot be a subconscious bias. It has to be a conscious decision which goes against what he is actually seeing with his own eyes.

As I've said so many times earlier in the thread that is either a conscious bias or something more sinister. Because of the clear cut nature of each incident an unconscious favouring of Liverpool's opponent - a mere marginal leaning towards that opponent in the manner we traditionally attribute, say, to 'homer' refs - simply cannot apply. The incidents are too cut and dried for that to be the case . The VAR simply has to want to rule against Liverpool and in favour of our opponent - which in each instance just happens to be our closest rival for the title. Whatever compels the officials concerned to act in the way they did in each of the cases none of us know. All's we do know is that it icannot be incompetetence or error and thus it fuckingwell stinks to high heaven - conscious bias or whatever.

As for the Diaz disallowed goal. The interpretation of Darren England's procrastination is viewed by all non-Liverpool fans and seemingly an awful lot of Liverpool fans as mere incompetence, whilst many other Liverpool fans such as myself regard that procrastinating as deliberate so as to justify his final decision not to interfere because the game had re-started. I presume, short of an admission, we shall never know the truth, so there's no point in labouring my own take on it. However, suffice to say I see it once again as his not wanting to precipitate a quick communication to the referee to rectify a clear on-field offside ruling and award the goal in Liverpool's favour ie conscious bias or whatever the fuck else it was.

[Red Beret]

Just look at the Arsenal game. If our players went down at the same rate theirs do, half our team would be on yellows for simulation after 30 minutes.

Does any other top six club get stepped on as often as we do? They seem to all get way more latitude and discretion than we do, even when it's plainly obvious (as in Arsenal's case) that they consistently go down feigning injury game after game.

I don't want us to be a dirty, diving, cheating team, but these are issues the new manager needs to look into when he arrives.

[Red Beret]

Yeah. Look how natural and tucked in his hands are there.

We got a penalty against Spurs in the CL final for less than that.

Let's face it, it's officials' discretion - and that's where bias comes in.

[Eeyore]

Does anyone think if Ibou wraps his arm around an attacker and pushes him to the ground like Gvardiol did Taylor will wave it away.

Does anyone think if Wan Bissaka gets a touch on the ball as Diaz attempts to dribble past him Taylor will award a penalty?

That is why it isn't a level playing field.

[Working Class Hen-Pecked Hero]

Wait till you see Rice on Dunk. If our players did that then it's a pen every day

[Eeyore]

Wait till you see Rice on Dunk. If our players did that then it's a pen every day

The bizarre thing is he spoke to Dunk before the corner went in. Then watches as Rice makes no attempt to attack the ball and twice just wraps his arms around Dunk.

[Yorkykopite]

Just look at the Arsenal game. If our players went down at the same rate theirs do, half our team would be on yellows for simulation after 30 minutes.

Does this happen a lot to our players? I'm trying to remember the last time we got a yellow card for 'simulation'.

[Eeyore]

Does this happen a lot to our players? I'm trying to remember the last time we got a yellow card for 'simulation'.

We don't get booked for simulation because our players don't dive. The question is if we did dive like Arsenal would we be treated the same.

Let's look at a similar issue time wasting.



From your mate Tomkins.

Liverpool waste the least time in the Premier League, according to Opta, yet have more bookings for time-wasting than the worst time-wasting teams in the Premier League; and the Reds’ bookings for time-wasting were simply for taking a normal amount of time. Again, this is subjective, about how a ref feels. It is not timed, just a sense of time that can be warped by emotions.

Then we had Coote allowing Brighton to time waste at will whilst winning 1-0 but when they were losing 2-1 Coote started doing the ball boys job for them.

We know what would happen if we started diving like Arsenal do we would start singing about having a party when Suarez gets a pen.

[clinical]

Does this happen a lot to our players? I'm trying to remember the last time we got a yellow card for 'simulation'.

No because our players don't go down like theirs.

Most of the refs are from London and Manchester..which teams are we competing against again?

[Timbo's Goals]

I've always been a rose tinted cockeyed optimist where the Reds are concerned but the possibility of those three atrocious decisions potentially denying us the league title this year is absolutely fucking racking me.

What I cannot get my fucking head around is why nobody else in this godforsaken thread seems equally mortified by it and would seemingly rather blabber on about so many marginal officialdom issues when the crucial three could well end up fucking us up the arse. 

Anyone care to enlighten me? And fer fucks sake please don't just tell me its because they were discussed fully at the time. Its only now that we're seeing just how crucial that trio of travesties against us could potentially be in damaging our chances with both City and Arsenal going like trains and us likely needing to perform faultlessly as the season draws to a close in order to hang onto our current marginal advantage when with a level playing field it could otherwise have been a really significant lead. BASTARDS.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I've always been a rose tinted cockeyed optimist where the Reds are concerned but the possibility of those three atrocious decisions potentially denying us the league title this year is absolutely fucking racking me.

What I cannot get my fucking head around is why nobody else in this godforsaken thread seems equally mortified by it and would seemingly rather blabber on about so many marginal officialdom issues when the crucial three could well end up fucking us up the arse. 

Anyone care to enlighten me? And fer fucks sake please don't just tell me its because they were discussed fully at the time. Its only now that we're seeing just how crucial that trio of travesties against us could potentially be in damaging our chances with both City and Arsenal going like trains and us likely needing to perform faultlessly as the season draws to a close in order to hang onto our current marginal advantage when with a level playing field it could otherwise have been a really significant lead. BASTARDS.

I think there are a few of us that are pretty fucked off that we've been robbed points - imagine if AGAIN PGMOL have fucked us and made us lose the league by one point.

As you say, it's mind-boggling that some don't seem to give much of a shiny shite if that happens again.

[Timbo's Goals]

I think there are a few of us that are pretty fucked off that we've been robbed points - imagine if AGAIN PGMOL have fucked us and made us lose the league by one point.

As you say, it's mind-boggling that some don't seem to give much of a shiny shite if that happens again.

Thank you Andy lad. Finally a fellow voice of perspective amidst an ocean of relative pedantry all missing the bigger picture being that there's a fair chance we end the season getting once again fucked up the arse. Pray to God not for all our sakes and for the sake of fair play.

[GreatEx]

Oh sure, the refs cost us 7 points. But if they REALLY had it in for us, they'd have cost us 87 points!

[spider-neil]

Diaz scores a goal. You can't stop the game.
Quansah gives away a penalty. Actually, you can stop the game.

[Working Class Hen-Pecked Hero]

The bizarre thing is he spoke to Dunk before the corner went in. Then watches as Rice makes no attempt to attack the ball and twice just wraps his arms around Dunk.

Wasn't even just wrapping his arms, he fought him to be able to grab him. No one even mentioned it afterwards. See the uproar if we dis that or if it was the other way round an Dunk gripped Rice

[Fromola]

Wasn't even just wrapping his arms, he fought him to be able to grab him. No one even mentioned it afterwards. See the uproar if we dis that or if it was the other way round an Dunk gripped Rice

Helps that Rice is the blue eyed boy. Londoner, England's lynchpin in midfield and the star player of London's biggest club. It gives him Harry Kane-esque free reign on decisions

[moondog]

No because our players don't go down like theirs.

Most of the refs are from London and Manchester..which teams are we competing against again?

Not sure if this has been suggested in this thread but why can’t Liverpool set up a referee academy to train people for the job At whatever level they are capable of reaching? Would be great for local football and perhaps more respect shown to the officials if they have come up this way, plus might eventually lead to 10 Prescot Cables or Marine fans becoming PL refs?

[rob1966]

I think there are a few of us that are pretty fucked off that we've been robbed points - imagine if AGAIN PGMOL have fucked us and made us lose the league by one point.

As you say, it's mind-boggling that some don't seem to give much of a shiny shite if that happens again.

I'm well aware of the fact that some decisions have cost us the title, I actually don't think we will win it now. I don't want to watch todays game, I ignored the football yesterday while at work, I don't watch any other games now, it's corrupt shit. I love going the game with my sons, I love them going mad when we score, but as a competition I fucking hate football.

Had a video appear on FB this week and i brought this up at the time, team gives the ball back to the oppo by kicking it back to the keeper, but player accidentally lobs the keeper and scores, so they then stand there and allow a walk in. Bielsa did the same at Leeds v Villa. All that cheating c*nt England had to do was tell Hooper, he then speaks to Jurgen and Ange, we get a walk in, game is 1-0 as it should have been

That Doku one is pure cheating, the audio is so damning that Atwell is just covering up what he saw, the AVAR even questions him and he fucks him off, he knows 100% that's a fucking pen, because he gives those challenges as free kicks when he refs. So now we're level on pts with Abu Dhabi 115 charges we're not corrupt, we don't cheat, we don't pay players off the books, we don't pay for pl refs to fly to dubai and ref games it's all legit FC

[rob1966]

Has anyone else had a goal disallowed yet for one of their own players being pushed offside?

[Kloppage Time]

The only decision worthy of of the corruption debate is the Diaz disallowed goal V Spurs.
The Saudi trip by the officials prior to the game, the other dubious sending off, the whole thing wreaked of something underhand going off;
However if it was corrupt then I reckon it was a one off and broadening it out to the entire PGMOL and the Premier League et al is the wrong strategy, this one game should be worthy of it's very own inquest, we've played  into their hands by not doing so

[Ski]

I’m with you too Timbo and have been for quite some time. We should be a few points clear with those 3 massive interventions. Everyone is crowing about the best title race ever because that’s what they all want. A team being clear by a few points with so few games to go is boring and not what they want. Especially not us.

It is driving me round the bend that we’ll likely miss out on the title again by the odd point and it’ll be as a result of biased officials rather than us not quite being up to it. To the point where I almost don’t want to watch anymore. What’s keeping me here is that it’s the boss’ last hurrah and these players are steadfastly refusing to lie down or go away despite everything they’ve had to endure from biased officials to coping with injuries the way they have. The boss, the player, club and supporters deserve Jurgen’s reign to not end with just 1 PL title and the f they somehow pull this off, it’ll be the sweetest victory ever.

[Fromola]

Has anyone else had a goal disallowed yet for one of their own players being pushed offside?

Or an offside like the cup final one. Or the excuse given for the City pen not being given. Or the Jones red card.

Arsenal score from a corner every week and get up to all kinds of tricks with them.

[rob1966]

The only decision worthy of of the corruption debate is the Diaz disallowed goal V Spurs.
The Saudi trip by the officials prior to the game, the other dubious sending off, the whole thing wreaked of something underhand going off;
However if it was corrupt then I reckon it was a one off and broadening it out to the entire PGMOL and the Premier League et al is the wrong strategy, this one game should be worthy of it's very own inquest, we've played  into their hands by not doing so

Explain the Doku penalty then? Bear in mind that a foot that high, regardless of getting the ball, is a foul under the LOTG?

[Redbonnie]

I've always been a rose tinted cockeyed optimist where the Reds are concerned but the possibility of those three atrocious decisions potentially denying us the league title this year is absolutely fucking racking me.

What I cannot get my fucking head around is why nobody else in this godforsaken thread seems equally mortified by it and would seemingly rather blabber on about so many marginal officialdom issues when the crucial three could well end up fucking us up the arse. 

Anyone care to enlighten me? And fer fucks sake please don't just tell me its because they were discussed fully at the time. Its only now that we're seeing just how crucial that trio of travesties against us could potentially be in damaging our chances with both City and Arsenal going like trains and us likely needing to perform faultlessly as the season draws to a close in order to hang onto our current marginal advantage when with a level playing field it could otherwise have been a really significant lead. BASTARDS.

This all day, I was livid for weeks after that game which from the first whistle to the last looked exactly like like match fixing. I absolutely knew it would be pivotal and we were robbed of all three points. That was a complete disgrace and all the rest muddies the waters. If we lose the league by 3 points or less in my view we have been cheated and Liverpool should take legal action. The game should have been replayed.

[Historical Fool]

Not sure if this has been suggested in this thread but why can’t Liverpool set up a referee academy to train people for the job At whatever level they are capable of reaching? Would be great for local football and perhaps more respect shown to the officials if they have come up this way, plus might eventually lead to 10 Prescot Cables or Marine fans becoming PL refs?

Agree. If as people seem to believe the issue is locality, then the solution is FSG setting up an academy for referees and making refereeing a long term attractive career proposition. Alternatives are of course referee swaps (unlikely) or legislative reform of refereeing to protect it as a profession (also unlikely)

[Kloppage Time]

Explain the Doku penalty then? Bear in mind that a foot that high, regardless of getting the ball, is a foul under the LOTG?

He got the ball?

The debates been had in the media and it seems to be a 50/50
I tend to go with relatively unbiased opinions of pundits I like/admire rather than the tribalism of the fan base, this maybe should have gone our way and would have if the ref had seen it our way (oliver who I generally like) however he didn't and the VAR saw it the same or felt at least  it couldn't be overruled'
It certainly can not be considered blatant corruption or even a bad mistake for that matter, just one that could have gone either way and City got lucky.

[Redley]

Just…don’t It’s not worth it

[Jm55]

One thing on this subject is people who don’t understand the fairly basic rules around VAR, I’m not sure if it’s wilful ignorance or stupidity but I see a lot of it (not so much in this thread to be fair).

I’ve read about 20 times in the last 12 hours ‘so when a player touches the ball first in the Doku scenario it’s no penalty but when it happens for Arsenal it is a penalty’.

Yes - because the crucial difference is that the referee on the pitch gave the fucking penalty whereas Oliver vs City did not. Now you can debate all day the rights and wrongs of that, whether you think VAR should be given more or less remit, you can even argue that the referee is bent if you want to, but totally ignoring the very clear distinction between the two things is mind numbingly annoying.

If people want to find incidents to compare the VAR handling of then they need to be the same, meaning it either has to be something where the referee has done something and VAR have overruled in on instance but not the other, or where the referee hasn’t done something and the VAR have overruled in once incident but not the other.

We’ve had this system in place for 5 years now and people still can’t wrap their heads around that fairly simple distinction.

[clinical]

Another big game in Manchester. Fully expecting the ref to give us terrible calls. The ref from greater Manchester that is

[clinical]

He got the ball?

The debates been had in the media and it seems to be a 50/50
I tend to go with relatively unbiased opinions of pundits I like/admire rather than the tribalism of the fan base, this maybe should have gone our way and would have if the ref had seen it our way (oliver who I generally like) however he didn't and the VAR saw it the same or felt at least  it couldn't be overruled'
It certainly can not be considered blatant corruption or even a bad mistake for that matter, just one that could have gone either way and City got lucky.

Utter nonsense.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

He got the ball?

The debates been had in the media and it seems to be a 50/50
I tend to go with relatively unbiased opinions of pundits I like/admire rather than the tribalism of the fan base, this maybe should have gone our way and would have if the ref had seen it our way (oliver who I generally like) however he didn't and the VAR saw it the same or felt at least  it couldn't be overruled'
It certainly can not be considered blatant corruption or even a bad mistake for that matter, just one that could have gone either way and City got lucky.

He kicked him in the fucking chest you loon

[Andy @ Allerton!]

One thing on this subject is people who don’t understand the fairly basic rules around VAR, I’m not sure if it’s wilful ignorance or stupidity but I see a lot of it (not so much in this thread to be fair).

I’ve read about 20 times in the last 12 hours ‘so when a player touches the ball first in the Doku scenario it’s no penalty but when it happens for Arsenal it is a penalty’.

Yes - because the crucial difference is that the referee on the pitch gave the fucking penalty whereas Oliver vs City did not. Now you can debate all day the rights and wrongs of that, whether you think VAR should be given more or less remit, you can even argue that the referee is bent if you want to, but totally ignoring the very clear distinction between the two things is mind numbingly annoying.

If people want to find incidents to compare the VAR handling of then they need to be the same, meaning it either has to be something where the referee has done something and VAR have overruled in on instance but not the other, or where the referee hasn’t done something and the VAR have overruled in once incident but not the other.

We’ve had this system in place for 5 years now and people still can’t wrap their heads around that fairly simple distinction.

The head of the PGMOL himself went onto TV to explain (gaslight) to the world why someone kicking someone in the chest in the area wasn't a penalty and the correct decision was made.

[Eeyore]

Explain the Doku penalty then? Bear in mind that a foot that high, regardless of getting the ball, is a foul under the LOTG?

Especially when the referee who failed to give the penalty against City was on the trip to the UAE. Plus the fella who allowed Oliver to moonlight for City's owners Webb then went on TV to gaslight us over the none decision.

The penalty wasn't given because Doku got the slightest touch on the ball after Macca had played it. They didn't even check if the contact from Dokus boot with Macca's chest happened before the ball came off Macca's chest and hit Dokus boot.

Attwell lied about what happened with his "both came in high nonsense" and crucially only checked angle. He also spoke over the VAR when he asked if he asked if he definitely played the ball. The two crucial things here are that Attwell tells Oliver that Doku's studs have caught Macca in the chest five foot off the ground. The other is whether Doku makes inpact with Macca before he gets a slight contact on the ball. Neither thing happens.

Fast forward to Brighton v Arsenal an it's 0-0. Lamptey challenges for the ball makes contact and changes the direction of the ball. He clearly wins the ball before there is any contact with Jesus. None of 4 Arsenal players even claim for a penalty. Yet Tierney blows up and it's a penalty. We then get the normal lightening VAR check. Now for checks like that VAR if it was us would do a deep analysis of the move look for offsides and any challenges in the build up.

Compare with how quick the check was to the VAR check for Chelsea's 2nd penalty against United. It took minutes for a straightforward check. With the VAR looking over and over again to check the amount of contact. Why didn't that happen with the Doku and Lamptey cases?

I have seen this kind of behaviour before. When you used to go to a physical car auction there was the phenomenon of the quick hammer. If the auctioneer wanted to sell a car to a mate then with multiple bidders still bidding the hammer would come down with their mate as the highest bidder. If the same mate was selling a car then they would be looking all over the hall looking for more bids, even accidently taking a few bids from inanimate objects like the back wall. They would try everything they could to engineer the outcome they wanted.

That is what we are getting now. The VAR  has two different speeds and levels of scrutiny depending on how they want a decision to go.