Topic: EL: Ata 0 vs 1 Liv (3-1) Mo 7’

[Peabee]

We haven't scored a goal in open play for 337 minutes.

[killer-heels]

We haven't scored a goal in open play for 337 minutes.

Its a depressing stat but the only silver lining to the plethora of misses.

[spider-neil]

Its a depressing stat but the only silver lining to the plethora of misses.

Why is it a silver lining?

[damomad]

Imagine how miserable we'd all have been if we had started the season off like this (not inconceivable given all the changes).

We didn't, and I have some fantastic memories and had loads of fun along the way.

Sure, we've faltered in the last few weeks, but we've had better squads than this falter too over the years.

I'm a bit disapponted but such is life.

I've been in the situation where a leader has resigned and it often takes a while for the sobering reality to sink in - I think that's part of what has happened here.

Chin up everyone, season not done yet

Well said. We've won a trophy and have top 4 almost sorted. That alone gives us plenty to look forward to next season. Also as much as I love Jurgen, the hard truth is he doesn't want to do it anymore. All the fun, finals, trophies we've won in the past 9 or so seasons would have been hard to foresee in the dark days of Hodgson. He won the lot. He can walk away proud and this season doesn't change anything.

We've lost great managers before, I can't imagine what it felt like when Shankly left but what's to say the next guy in doesn't do a Bob.

[decosabute]

We haven't scored a goal in open play for 337 minutes.

It's more than 360 minutes.

Gakpo scored late in the Sheffield United game from open play. We've played the end of that game and four full games more without an open play goal since that one.

[The G in Gerrard]

Imagine how miserable we'd all have been if we had started the season off like this (not inconceivable given all the changes).

We didn't, and I have some fantastic memories and had loads of fun along the way.

Sure, we've faltered in the last few weeks, but we've had better squads than this falter too over the years.

I'm a bit disapponted but such is life.

I've been in the situation where a leader has resigned and it often takes a while for the sobering reality to sink in - I think that's part of what has happened here.

Chin up everyone, season not done yet

There's disappointed and then there's throwing the toys out of the pram that some continue to do.

[Fruity]

Think the more concerning aspect of the game was that in two matches, none of our players have won their individual battles. Hard to know if thats purely a physical or technical thing.

I think it's a physical thing. We have played a lot of games. When we played the league cup final, I think our players had done the most minutes up to that point. Macallister has pretty much had to play every game for a while now. Reminds me of the season when we were in the running for the quadruple and it was our fight and desire that was seeing us over the line in the end rather than our gameplay, we were just running of fumes. It feels like we peaked against City at home and since then we have had incremental drop offs. And now we have 3 away games in about 8 days.

On top of that I think players missing big chances has probably got into some players heads. There was an inevitability about the chance Mo missed. I felt it sitting on my sofa eating my Jacobs club (orange flavour) and I'm sure the midfield and defenders felt it as well. You don't generally get a ton of chances playing away in Europe so you have to take them when they come.

The run in is going to be tough.

[Fromola]

It's not just Klopp that has no energy. I feel physically and emotionally drained and I'm a fan, not a player.

Like 13/14 when games are so chaotic and you have to dig deep every single week, it catches up with everyone. Everyone is spent.

We went the distance in 2019 and 2022 because we could win games with less fuss.

[The G in Gerrard]

I think it's a physical thing. We have played a lot of games. When we played the league cup final, I think our players had done the most minutes up to that point. Macallister has pretty much had to play every game for a while now. Reminds me of the season when we were in the running for the quadruple and it was our fight and desire that was seeing us over the line in the end rather than our gameplay, we were just running of fumes. It feels like we peaked against City at home and since then we have had incremental drop offs. And now we have 3 away games in about 8 days.

On top of that I think players missing big chances has probably got into some players heads. There was an inevitability about the chance Mo missed. I felt it sitting on my sofa eating my Jacobs club (orange flavour) and I'm sure the midfield and defenders felt it as well. You don't generally get a ton of chances playing away in Europe so you have to take them when they come.

The run in is going to be tough.

This has amused me way too much than it should. 

[Bennett]

They squeezed the life out of us in that second half. We couldn't get the ball into the front players at all and could barely even get out of our half. Atalanta fully deserving the win over two legs. Feels like the sort of naive performance we saw in Europe under Brendan. A sad end to what's been an amazing European journey under Klopp but, for fear of a pile-on, we look like a side looking more and more in need of some fresh ideas in the dugout.

[wah00ey]

Can't wait for Fulham to implement the Atalanta tactics against us on Sunday.

[na fir dearg]

Sadly yes, harsh viewing at the moment, when Salah missed I knew it was done, my heart sank.

same

[na fir dearg]

They squeezed the life out of us in that second half. We couldn't get the ball into the front players at all and could barely even get out of our half. Atalanta fully deserving the win over two legs. Feels like the sort of naive performance we saw in Europe under Brendan. A sad end to what's been an amazing European journey under Klopp but, for fear of a pile-on, we look like a side looking more and more in need of some fresh ideas in the dugout.

Klopp out

[Redley]

They just played really well. We definitely under-estimated them, the team and the fans. Thought it was an easy game, nice route through to the final without too much fuss. But they're massive over-achievers and have been consistently under this manager, done well in Europe for the size of club, constantly losing their best players but recovering quickly. And they just nailed it tactically unfortunately. The chance was in the first half when we had them on the ropes a little, if we'd got the second it would have been tricky for them to work out the best way to play but they regrouped at half time and just used the same tactics that we couldnt beat in the first leg.

[spider-neil]

They squeezed the life out of us in that second half. We couldn't get the ball into the front players at all and could barely even get out of our half. Atalanta fully deserving the win over two legs. Feels like the sort of naive performance we saw in Europe under Brendan. A sad end to what's been an amazing European journey under Klopp but, for fear of a pile-on, we look like a side looking more and more in need of some fresh ideas in the dugout.

That was a choice. We chose to pass between the keeper and centre-backs for the entire second half. We could have been a lot more direct because passing out from the back wasn't an option.

[spider-neil]

Klopp out

He gets 6 games to save the season or he can go.

[killer-heels]

That was a choice. We chose to pass between the keeper and centre-backs for the entire second half. We could have been a lot more direct because passing out from the back wasn't an option.

Not sure that was a choice, we were not consistently troubling their centre halves when one vs one, so just knocking it long would mean turning over possession.

[Raid]

It was a bit of a troubling second half, there was none of that air that we'd eventually find a way like we have done all season up until very recently. Atalanta's high press was outstanding but you wonder how at it they would have been had Mo scored and all of a sudden they were defending a slender advantage.

We were patient, but didn't or couldn't change it up, and there was no clicking through the gears to chase the tie as the second half went on. Just a really strange performance.

I think the selection was probably wrong and the subs ultimately killed it off. Luis Diaz, as frustrating as he can be, is a man who at least tries to change pace and take a man on.

Full credit to Atalanta, who executed their game plan superbly.

[Bucko - Dubai]

He gets 6 games to save the season or he can go.

I've got a better idea

[Schmidt]

Not sure that was a choice, we were not consistently troubling their centre halves when one vs one, so just knocking it long would mean turning over possession.

I thought we brought Danns on specifically so we could stick four players high up the pitch and try to bypass their press. Instead we stuck Gakpo at left back and spent the remaining game time passing it between the keeper and centre backs. It was fucking mental and I still have no idea what they were trying to accomplish.

[Eeyore]

They squeezed the life out of us in that second half. We couldn't get the ball into the front players at all and could barely even get out of our half. Atalanta fully deserving the win over two legs. Feels like the sort of naive performance we saw in Europe under Brendan. A sad end to what's been an amazing European journey under Klopp but, for fear of a pile-on, we look like a side looking more and more in need of some fresh ideas in the dugout.

The brutal truth is that the only way for us to compete is for the manager to be absolutely perfect. To get us to overachieve. We don't compete at the top end of the market any more for transfers. We don't match the top clubs for net spend.

We expect someone like Klopp to in essence to carry our hopes and dreams. To get us to overachieve season in season out. It just isn't possible. We are a big club in fits and starts. When a Benitez, a Klopp or Rodgers for one season elevates us into a top side.

Your solution new ideas in the dugout. No wonder we burn out managers with fans like you.

[Redley]

I thought we brought Danns on specifically so we could stick four players high up the pitch and try to bypass their press. Instead we stuck Gakpo at left back and spent the remaining game time passing it between the keeper and centre backs. It was fucking mental and I still have no idea what they were trying to accomplish.

That whole period was mind blowing, it was like every part of the coaching and the team lost their heads at the same time. Ten minutes left, in need of two goals, three tall forwards on plus Jota and we then have Gakpo at LB, Harvey Elliott as our furthest forward player and then proceed to just keep popping it around the back four and Macallister.

It was almost like we thought two goals was still doable at that point, but three wasn't and we didn't want another thirty minutes.

[Indomitable_Carp]

Frustrating and deflating second half. Once again, too much trying to pass the ball into the net rather than just taking the shot on.

You just know pre-AFCON Mo would have put that chance away, and we would have been looking at a whole different game. I honestly reckon if that went in we would have gone on to put ourselves through to the Semis.

It wasn't a loss, but it wasn't the confidence booster I was hoping for either.

[Sharado]

I can't remember the last time we have struggled to play out from the back like that. Atalanta were comfortably the toughest team we have faced this season.

It was our complete inability to do anything to counter their tactics that you could see they were using from minute 5 of the first leg. It's honestly astonishing to me that we seemed to do nothing over the 2 legs to change how we played against them, given their tactical approach was clearly working. I think up to now I've always been of the view that the players are goosed, run themselves into the ground with too many comebacks, covering injuries and all that. But last night it felt like the coaching staff - not just Klopp but all of them - just ran out of steam too. It's horrible that this is the end to be honest. Just over a month ago it looked totally different, he's obviously still the best of my lifetime by a fucking mile but I think Jurgen's called it right in terms of knowing when to go.

[Son of Spion]

It's not just Klopp that has no energy. I feel physically and emotionally drained and I'm a fan, not a player.

Klopp is a very astute man. He knows full well that his tank is running on fumes now. He's done. You can see it in his eyes. I think many fans feel the same too. I think most of us are absolutely burnt out. Klopp's tenure has been a tornado. Only the antics of the cheats have disguised the fact that under Klopp we've ripped the head off this league. All legitimately done too.

It's been a sensational time. A rollercoaster of epic proportions. Emotionally draining, which also leaves you physically drained as well. He's knackered. Much of the squad is knackered. Many of the fans are knackered too.

The more I think about it, the more grateful I am for Jόrgen having the self-awareness to know when to call it a day. He knows, and he wants to do the right thing for him and his club. A lesser man could maybe plod on. Jaded, but taking the money and the lifestyle. Not Jόrgen. He knows his goose is cooked, and he won't let that impact on the club he loves.

He knows things need refreshing, and he also knows he's not fresh enough himself to inject what's necessary. I'm 100% certain he's made the right decision, not only for himself, but for his club. I think a new man with a new approach might just shift the status quo and help inject the energy Jόrgen currently feels unable to do. The man is burnt out, and it's no surprise. He came here and turned an ailing giant into English, European and World Champions. It's took a hell of a lot out of him, and us too. It's been magnificent though, but still draining. 

Hopefully we can all find the energy for the final push now. It's all-in on the league. Backs to the wall, but we often excel in those circumstances. We're all running on fumes, but we can still do this.

[Bennett]

The brutal truth is that the only way for us to compete is for the manager to be absolutely perfect. To get us to overachieve. We don't compete at the top end of the market any more for transfers. We don't match the top clubs for net spend.

We expect someone like Klopp to in essence to carry our hopes and dreams. To get us to overachieve season in season out. It just isn't possible. We are a big club in fits and starts. When a Benitez, a Klopp or Rodgers for one season elevates us into a top side.

Your solution new ideas in the dugout. No wonder we burn out managers with fans like you.

Hahaha, fuck off. This site is fucking bonkers. Klopp himself has said he is burned out and can't carry on. He hasn't got it in him to give the same level of energy. So yeah, I'd rather have someone with new ideas than a man running on fumes. I've had a season ticket for 12 years and it's been the best period of following the club in my life by a country mile. But we're reflective of the man in the dugout in every state - good and bad. And right now we look like we're ready for something new, simple as.

[Kloppage Time]

The brutal truth is that the only way for us to compete is for the manager to be absolutely perfect. To get us to overachieve. We don't compete at the top end of the market any more for transfers. We don't match the top clubs for net spend.

We expect someone like Klopp to in essence to carry our hopes and dreams. To get us to overachieve season in season out. It just isn't possible. We are a big club in fits and starts. When a Benitez, a Klopp or Rodgers for one season elevates us into a top side.

Your solution new ideas in the dugout. No wonder we burn out managers with fans like you.

Take cheating 115 out of the equation and we are a top side, no question, every other team in the league (bar the Saudies) are in the same boat,  Gasperini has Klopps number, simple as that, Klopp couldn't master his tactics, and we will probably face a version of those tactics for the next 6 games

[Draex]

The brutal truth is that the only way for us to compete is for the manager to be absolutely perfect. To get us to overachieve. We don't compete at the top end of the market any more for transfers. We don't match the top clubs for net spend.

Checks who we lost against 3-1 over 2 legs, Atalanta, top ever signing £25mil who typically have a positive net spend every year.

Of course you would turn this into a Klopp v's FSG debate.

[NarutoReds]

I mean... We can just go long, right? Just bypass their fooking midfield.

Our defenders could hoof it to our forwards, we had four forwards at the front-line FFS!!

Gakpo ----- Nunez ----- Jayden Danns ------ Jota

That's bloody super attacking formation.

I don't understand that, kept passing from our base. Was it tactical, Klopp's orders or something?

[Paul JH]

Klopp has been praised this season for his use of subs, but the reason he has to make wholesale changes every match to rescue games is that not one of the front lads we have are consistant in any way, or the midfield. Macca maybe, but that's literally it.

So every single game he's having to throw on 3-4 subs to try and save a match, and usually it's worked, but last night looked desperate. In a cycle of picks a front three, they don't perform from the start, he has to throw on 3 subs, they play well, they start the next match, are shite, and he has to trow on three subs again, who play well, and then start the next match ... etc etc ad infinitum.

Last night looked the culmination of that, only this time the lads he's throwing on to rescue it are as bad as the ones he's took off the pitch.

Far, far too many of this squad can't put a run of games together were they perform, week in, week out. They are great one week, shite the next.

[Redley]

Klopp has been praised this season for his use of subs, but the reason he has to make wholesale changes every match to rescue games is that not one of the front lads we have are consistant in any way, or the midfield. Macca maybe, but that's literally it.

So every single game he's having to throw on 3-4 subs to try and save a match, and usually it's worked, but last night looked desperate. In a cycle of picks a front three, they don't perform from the start, he has to throw on 3 subs, they play well, they start the next match, are shite, and he has to trow on three subs again, who play well, and then start the next match ... etc etc ad infinitum.

Last night looked the culmination of that, only this time the lads he's throwing on to rescue it are as bad as the ones he's took off the pitch.

Far, far too many of this squad can't put a run of games together were they perform, week in, week out. They are great one week, shite the next.

We've had a fuckload of injuries this season and are still just two points off the top of the table and have already won a trophy this season. You dont achieve that by being shite one week and great the next.

So many obituaries being written, just pure hyperbole. If Abu Dhabi had stormed off into the distance, Arsenal had finished on the same points they got last season and we'd just cruised pretty serenely to third place on 81/82 points the mood here would be so much more positive. But because we've been there or therebouts all season, suddenly its absolute carnage because it looks like we might fall just short. Its just daft.

[Paul JH]

We've had a fuckload of injuries this season and are still just two points off the top of the table and have already won a trophy this season. You dont achieve that by being shite one week and great the next.

So many obituaries being written, just pure hyperbole. If Abu Dhabi had stormed off into the distance, Arsenal had finished on the same points they got last season and we'd just cruised pretty serenely to third place on 81/82 points the mood here would be so much more positive. But because we've been there or therebouts all season, suddenly its absolute carnage because it looks like we might fall just short. Its just daft.

Alright mate, simmer down. I didn't say we aren't performing as a team, and his subs have worked. And worked great because we are 2 points off top.

But there is a reason he's having to make 3-4 changes a match on 70 minutes to get the team performing, because none of the starters are doing it week in week out and we've been trying to save matches. You'd need to be blind to think that some of the front three / six are having great games week in week out, so hence 'they are inconsistant'. I didn't say it's not worked, but he's had to use his subs well and been praised for it because at times, he has had to take 3-4 players off because it's not working.

Last night, none of them were that effective, either starters or the lads he brought on.

[Redley]

Alright mate, simmer down. I didn't say we aren't performing as a team, and his subs have worked. And worked great because we are 2 points off top.

But there is a reason he's having to make 3-4 changes a match on 70 minutes to get the team performing, because none of the starters are doing it week in week out and we've been trying to save matches. You'd need to be blind to think that some of the front three / six are having great games week in week out, so hence 'they are inconsistant'. I didn't say it's not worked, but he's had to use his subs well and been praised for it because at times, he has had to take 3-4 players off because it's not working.

You're literally talking the last 3/4 games though, that's hardly indicative of the whole season!

[Kloppage Time]

I could not understand the lack of urgency 15 minutes out and needing 2 goals

[NarutoReds]

This will come across as bad losing, but there’s a stench about that Atalanta team. As in Russia 2018 stench. You can argue all you like about tactics and performance but I’ve never seen a team utterly dominate us physically for 3 hours like that. Zappacosta made a full pitch run on about 88 mins that a fresh Cafu would gawk at.

This. Dopey as fuck.

[Paul JH]

You're literally talking the last 3/4 games though, that's hardly indicative of the whole season!

No I'm not, it's been going on for a while. Stop frothing at the mouth, it's a fair point. Literally someone pointed out Klopp's 'use of subs' THIS SEASON and he's received widespread praise for it as it's become a 'thing' with us this season, where he's had to make 3-4 changes to either rescue a result or get the team playing, and it's because whomever plays up top generally can be great one week, not great the next.

None of our front lads are that consistant. They just aren't. Gakpo was great last week, poor last night. Nunez was great, has totally gone off the boil. Diaz will be great one match, barely effective the next. It's a valid criticism mate.

[crewlove]

None of our front lads are that consistant. They just aren't. Gakpo was great last week, poor last night. Nunez was great, has totally gone off the boil. Diaz will be great one match, barely effective the next. It's a valid criticism mate.

I feel this as well. Multiple times this season you could praise somebody hugely and next week he was the first sub out. And I think it is not only front lads.

[Eeyore]

Hahaha, fuck off. This site is fucking bonkers. Klopp himself has said he is burned out and can't carry on. He hasn't got it in him to give the same level of energy. So yeah, I'd rather have someone with new ideas than a man running on fumes. I've had a season ticket for 12 years and it's been the best period of following the club in my life by a country mile. But we're reflective of the man in the dugout in every state - good and bad. And right now we look like we're ready for something new, simple as.

Klopp is burned out because he has basically had to carry the club on his back. It was the same with Benitez. If you think the issue is new ideas in the dugout then you are spectacularly missing the point. The issue is that we stopped acting like a top club decades ago. We now expect Managers to make up that shortfall.

To bring in basically a whole new midfield and win a trophy get to the quarter-finals of the other two cups and be bang in the title race with 6 games to go is an incredible achievement. The fans have been unbelievably spoilt over the last 8 years and are due a rude awakening.

The next manager has far more chance of being a Ten Haag, Pochetino or even a Hodgson than achieving what Klopp has achieved.

[Eeyore]

I could not understand the lack of urgency 15 minutes out and needing 2 goals

Two goals to take it to extra time and another 30 minutes followed by 3 away games in less than 6 days. Sometimes you have to pick your battles.

[Redley]

No I'm not, it's been going on for a while. Stop frothing at the mouth, it's a fair point. Literally someone pointed out Klopp's 'use of subs' THIS SEASON and he's received widespread praise for it as it's become a 'thing' with us this season, where he's had to make 3-4 changes to either rescue a result or get the team playing, and it's because whomever plays up top generally can be great one week, not great the next.

None of our front lads are that consistant. They just aren't. Gakpo was great last week, poor last night. Nunez was great, has totally gone off the boil. Diaz will be great one match, barely effective the next. It's a valid criticism mate.

You just said it there. The last few games. Darwins played 21 games this year and has had 8 where he's not scored or assisted. Mo has had 14 out of 38 where he's not all season. Diaz has been outstanding since January, Diogo is literally just back from injury but was very consistent before then.

There's no frothing of mouths Its just not really that accurate, our attack has been on fire this season. You can count on one hand the amount of games we've not scored in this season, just frustratingly most of them have been in the last fortnight.