Topic: ANNE - 4pt drama 2nd-5th Jan 2022 ITV // UNFINISHED BUSINESS Documentary 6th Jan

[Billy Elliot]

I was in the crush on the outside. About ten of my mates and me. We all had tickets. When the gates were opened we went through. Lost touch with the lads in the chaos outside. Don’t recall loads being there ticketless, obviously would have been some, but nowhere near what the police and media tried to make out.

I remember tickets being quite easy to get hold of. I couldn't get a ticket in '88. The whole red half of my family were sorted in '89.

I don't like watching these things either but just watched the first episode on BritBox. Need to watch some 1963 Doctor Who or something now so I can forget all about it again. Fuck knows how Anne did everything she did, I don't mind admitting that I couldn't have even tried to have done half as much.

[Tesco tearaway]

I remember tickets being quite easy to get hold of. I couldn't get a ticket in '88. The whole red half of my family were sorted in '89.

I don't like watching these things either but just watched the first episode on BritBox. Need to watch some 1963 Doctor Who or something now so I can forget all about it again. Fuck knows how Anne did everything she did, I don't mind admitting that I couldn't have even tried to have done half as much.

Never come between a mother bear and her cub.

Don't mind admitting that I've cried buckets watching this; everything is so raw again 

[Roady]

I just watched from the first one tonight all the way through .found it difficult to watch at times. I cried.a lot.

[Crosby Nick]

Just watched the documentary. Tough but essential viewing.

[Sarge]

That was not an easy watch.

[Sarge]

I screamed at the tv at the part outsde the Maritine Musuem.

[guestfromleicester]

Leicester fan in peace here.

I just finished watching "Anne" in floods of tears and decided to register here to see if there was a topic about it. It was a tough watch and I admit I cried multiple times - I can only imagine what it must be like for some of you guys who were there.

I was 15 when Hillsborough happened. I remember it so clearly watching it unfold on TV. I was shocked and stunned. I've followed the progress over the years of the campaign. I remember reading Rogan Taylor's book "The Day of the Hillsborough Disaster" and Phil Scraton's "Truth". I've lost count of the people I've tried to educate over the years whenever I heard their "pissed up scousers without tickets rherotic".

The real galling thing is for me is that most of the "evidence" which ultimately resulted in the unlawful killing verdict was in the two books mentioned above. published years before. It is all there, and it was all there right from the start.

It really was/is one of the biggest scandals of our time and the families and people who campaigned for justice for so many years have my absolute utmost admiration.

Anyhow, I thought "Anne" was absolutely brilliant and it just confirms why your city is the probably the greatest city in the world.

Not long ago I took the missus and kids on a trip to Liverpool. We got on the bus from our hotel to travel to the city centre and within minutes some lady clocked me and started chatting "where you from love?", "how old are your kids". LIterally one of the friendliest strangers I've ever met - in a 20 minute bus ride she'd told us best places to go, nicest park, good places to eat with the kids and even gave the boys a pound each to spend on sweets! She was so proud of Liverpool and I've experienced similar warmth whenever I've been there.

Also had a great day a few years ago when I took my nephew (who is the exception in the family as he doesn't support Leicester, but chose Liverpool as his team) to Anfield for an FA Cup match for his 10th birthday. Tickets were hard to come by, so I had to buy hospitality seats but it was really good - especially the welcome we received from the staff.

Anyway, I'm rambling now - but just wanted to reach out and say well done Liverpool, well done Anne Williams and YNWA

Might stick around the forum if that's ok ?

[Jm55]

Watched all 4 episodes last night, brilliant, upsetting and anger provoking on equal measure.

I was only a year old when Hillsborough happened so I have no memories on the subject other than, as I’m sure most of us have, first hand experience of how it has affected people either directly or indirectly. It’s such a shame that this had to happen to provoke the changes to create the environment that we all take for granted now when going to the game, our own safety and not being treated with contempt (or at least, significantly less contempt).

What leaves a somewhat bitter residual taste in the mouth is despite all the publicly accessible clear evidence as to what happened and who was (or wasn’t) to blame, that there is still an undertone of ‘it’s football fans, they probably did play a part in it) when you speak to people even now. Obviously that voice has quietened somewhat since the inquest and the unlawful killing verdict but in my experience it remains in some and it’s because that voice existed in 1989 that the government and police were so readily able to cover it up.

[red_Mark1980]

Course you should stick around. Anything you see of our recent encounters between the two sides is directed at the "feed the scouser" chants. I've got family who are from Leicester and wouldn't take part in such Tory behaviour.
Take a look and post in
https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=297613.840

It's a thread for fans from other clubs and is in the specific Hillsborough forum.

[guestfromleicester]

Course you should stick around. Anything you see of our recent encounters between the two sides is directed at the "feed the scouser" chants. I've got family who are from Leicester and wouldn't take part in such Tory behaviour.
Take a look and post in
https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=297613.840

It's a thread for fans from other clubs and is in the specific Hillsborough forum.

Cheers. I'll take a look.

I did hear about some of the chanting (although I didn't attend either match myself - isolating for covid!). It's fair to say like most clubs we have our fair share of absolute bellends who give us all a bad name.

Whether people think they are being "funny" or "cool" or "hard" building on lazy stereotypes I don't know. The same idiots at Leicester sing homophopic stuff to Brighton for example and we've often been subjected to the "town full of p***s" over the years - although less so in recent times - perhaps the knuckleheads have ceased the overtly racist stuff - maybe some of the "softer" (for want of a better word) stereotypes will take a bit longer to weed out.

Anyway, not to derail the thread away for the topic. I'll have a look around the forum later!

[redgriffin73]

Welcome @guestfromleicester, always nice to hear outsiders' thoughts on here. The sensible ones at least! And always good to hear how other clubs' fans have taken the time to learn the facts and stuck up for us over Hillsborough over the years as well so thanks for that.

[has gone odd]

Really difficult to watch, as everyone says, but it was a very well made and thought out. Would spark the emotions of any parent, anywhere.

[stockdam]

I rewatched Episode 1 on Irish TV (Virgin One) and it wasn't great. Far too many ad breaks that were too long and so the flow was lost. I think they also cut out the bit where the car ran out of petrol.
They also are only showing one episode per week whereas in the UK it was one per night. There are links posted in this thread and these do not have ad breaks; the video does stop at the title screen for a couple of seconds but quickly moves on. This is the best way of watching as the intensity is kept up.

[rob1966]

Managed to watch the first one last night, me and the missus were in tears, the bit where she was combing his hair, the actor looked so much like my eldest in that shot and my wife said "I'd brush his hair like that too"

As I've said, Kev worked with our kid, as did our kids wife and I know I met him a few times. Its really hard, as I remember our kid telling me about speaking to Anne just after Hillsborough and it brings back what he said and how much of a mess she was. Anne gave our kid a copy of that picture that they showed the scumbag journo trying to take from the house and some other stuff of Kevins, including a Motorhead mirror, which he still has to this day.

I spoke to our kid last night and he still can't face watching it, but will try this weekend, I know its going to be hard for him.

[redgriffin73]

Andy Burnham currently speaking about calls for a Hillsborough Law.

https://www.facebook.com/BurnhamGM/videos/473276940816226/

[oojason]

The ITV Hub link for 'The Real Anne: Unfinished Business' 60 minute documentary is here - www.itv.com/hub/the-real-anne-unfinished-business/10a1036a0001


A torrent for it is online (for anyone outside the UK wanting to watch it etc); look for - The.Real.Anne.Unfinished.Business.2021.1080p.HDTV.H264-DARKFLiX

A download link for it (a simple, safe download - a 1.6gb file) - https://mega.nz/file/uWo0jQ6Z#t0BLapYlHh9VE4pBpJMaEv2s3lXNB7CXAFvBhkMKl-0

To watch it (like you would on youtube - simply click on 'play'), here - https://streamtape.com/v/6pdKb8mzeks9rLx (46 minutes without adverts)

[John C]

Might stick around the forum if that's ok ?

Welcome and please do mate. We have a good few well established posters from other clubs. We respect each others partisan outlook, but you'll find this site is enjoyable, supportive of each other and a giggle on occasion. We've some excellent contributors with great football insight also.

Have a good look around and thanks for recognising the importance of the documentary and Hillsborough in general.

[red_Mark1980]

Managed to watch the first one last night, me and the missus were in tears, the bit where she was combing his hair, the actor looked so much like my eldest in that shot and my wife said "I'd brush his hair like that too"

As I've said, Kev worked with our kid, as did our kids wife and I know I met him a few times. Its really hard, as I remember our kid telling me about speaking to Anne just after Hillsborough and it brings back what he said and how much of a mess she was. Anne gave our kid a copy of that picture that they showed the scumbag journo trying to take from the house and some other stuff of Kevins, including a Motorhead mirror, which he still has to this day.

I spoke to our kid last night and he still can't face watching it, but will try this weekend, I know its going to be hard for him.

I can't imagine how difficult it must be Rob. That's the thing that these shows always resonate with me.

We (by that I mean anyone who didn't know anyone or wasn't there) sometimes have a tendency to view the 97 as an singularity (and by extension their parents/partners). But you realise how many lives one person touches.

Kevin was 15, in school and by all accounts of those that knew him a great lad. His loss is obviously felt by more than just his immediate family.

Maybe it's just me, but these documentaries and dramas remind me of that all the time.

[Barrow Shaun]

.....

Thanks for the mega download link mate. Knew you'd come through with something. Downloading right now, watching as soon as.

Cheers as always.

[rob1966]

I can't imagine how difficult it must be Rob. That's the thing that these shows always resonate with me.

We (by that I mean anyone who didn't know anyone or wasn't there) sometimes have a tendency to view the 97 as an singularity (and by extension their parents/partners). But you realise how many lives one person touches.

Kevin was 15, in school and by all accounts of those that knew him a great lad. His loss is obviously felt by more than just his immediate family.

Maybe it's just me, but these documentaries and dramas remind me of that all the time.

There was one on the BBC this week, four lives, about Stephen Port, the serial killer who killed 4 in Barking and that hit me on how the families lost loved ones.

I wasn't at Hillsborough, but I've a few mates who were, most weren't in the crush thankfully. A neighbour on Tower Hill was killed and a lad I worked with in Southport was brought back to life on the pitch by a fireman. Poor fucker was the first one in the ward when they wheeled that arl c*nt Thatcher in to meet some of the injured and it was shown on the news.

As for Kevin, our kid said he was a brilliant lad, fucking huge shock when our kid was told he was dead.

[Alan_X]

In terms of the morons who parrot the same lines then maybe. Do they think that footage of the crowd outside is only people without tickets? There’s no getting through to them.

But for the general public with a more open mind, there would be footage online even before the police tried to get their message out.

I take your point though Alan. And don’t mean to go off on a tangent.

Not a tangent at all mate.

[Alan_X]

Andy Burnham currently speaking about calls for a Hillsborough Law.

https://www.facebook.com/BurnhamGM/videos/473276940816226/

It's insane that there should need to be a law requiring public servants to tell the truth in public enquiries.

[redjed1]

It is that, but it’s been shown that they can get around it by lying / altering the truth.

Hope they can pass the new law and anyone caught obstructing the truth for 30 odd years can be put away, and the key thrown away.

[stockdam]

Leicester fan in peace here.

Might stick around the forum if that's ok ?

Yes please stick around. Most posters here are decent and those who aren’t get quickly dealt with by the excellent mods.

If you come across as fair and reasoned then you’ll get good debates here.

[SvenJohansen]

Andy Burnham currently speaking about calls for a Hillsborough Law.

https://www.facebook.com/BurnhamGM/videos/473276940816226/

Thanks for the link.

[Oldmanmick]

Having been in the Leppings Lane that day I knew there was no way I could watch this tv series on Anne. I get emotional every time I walk past the memorial at Anfield, so watching this would have opened up so many wounds & memories. & as for this 'ticketless fans' fabricated story that some dickheads with an agenda like to bring up, it's absolute bollocks. I bought 3 £6 tickets the day before the match on Friday the 14th after it was advertised on Radio City the club still had a small supply that was going on general sale.

[Son of Spion]

Leicester fan in peace here.

I just finished watching "Anne" in floods of tears and decided to register here to see if there was a topic about it. It was a tough watch and I admit I cried multiple times - I can only imagine what it must be like for some of you guys who were there.

I was 15 when Hillsborough happened. I remember it so clearly watching it unfold on TV. I was shocked and stunned. I've followed the progress over the years of the campaign. I remember reading Rogan Taylor's book "The Day of the Hillsborough Disaster" and Phil Scraton's "Truth". I've lost count of the people I've tried to educate over the years whenever I heard their "pissed up scousers without tickets rherotic".

The real galling thing is for me is that most of the "evidence" which ultimately resulted in the unlawful killing verdict was in the two books mentioned above. published years before. It is all there, and it was all there right from the start.

It really was/is one of the biggest scandals of our time and the families and people who campaigned for justice for so many years have my absolute utmost admiration.

Anyhow, I thought "Anne" was absolutely brilliant and it just confirms why your city is the probably the greatest city in the world.

Not long ago I took the missus and kids on a trip to Liverpool. We got on the bus from our hotel to travel to the city centre and within minutes some lady clocked me and started chatting "where you from love?", "how old are your kids". LIterally one of the friendliest strangers I've ever met - in a 20 minute bus ride she'd told us best places to go, nicest park, good places to eat with the kids and even gave the boys a pound each to spend on sweets! She was so proud of Liverpool and I've experienced similar warmth whenever I've been there.

Also had a great day a few years ago when I took my nephew (who is the exception in the family as he doesn't support Leicester, but chose Liverpool as his team) to Anfield for an FA Cup match for his 10th birthday. Tickets were hard to come by, so I had to buy hospitality seats but it was really good - especially the welcome we received from the staff.

Anyway, I'm rambling now - but just wanted to reach out and say well done Liverpool, well done Anne Williams and YNWA

Might stick around the forum if that's ok ?

Welcome aboard and, yes, do stick around.

It's refreshing to hear from clued-up fans of other clubs. It's also refreshing to know some also put others straight when they trot out the tired, damaging rubbish and lies that were peddled by those who pushed the cover-up.

It was interesting last night. I was pottering about online looking for pictures of our title clincher at Wolves in 1976. Now I don't tend to go on opposition forums, but I ended up on a Wolves one which had a thread about that very game. It wasn't long before someone threw Hillsborough into the conversation. That person was roundly shouted down and some really knowledgeable Wolves fans stood up for the truth. That was really refreshing to see. For all the complete dickheads out there, there are still some good football people about and some quality human beings. 

[murphs316]

Those were tough watching, but it shows never give up. Coming from Derry where we are now 50 years from another government cover up it hard to see these people in "charge" getting away with it.

[AlphaDelta]

Watched all four episodes today. What can I say that hasn't already been said? Tough viewing, a few tears.....

I will say this, excellent job by Maxine Peake.

[Barrow Shaun]

Watched all four episodes today. What can I say that hasn't already been said? Tough viewing, a few tears.....

I will say this, excellent job by Maxine Peake.

Yeah she's excellent, and in the follow-up doc too. I still think the Phil Scraton 2 hour doc is the best out there, for the details - especially the police statements being doctored.

[PhilScraton]

Thanks for your comment on the police statements. The documentary suggested that David Conn of the Guardian revealed the reviewed and altered statements just ahead of the 20th Anniversary when AB spoke. In fact, I met with a former SYP officer three times in 1996 and 1997. On the third occasion he gave me is reviewed and altered statement. It was in three forms - handwritten, typed and with alterations written in pen and initialed by a senior SYP officer, and a clean copy. He had refused to sign it yet his signature was at the foot of every page: 'Yes, it is my signature, but I didn't put it there'. On 24 October 1997 he accompanied me to an interview with Stuart-Smith who gave him a hard time. I also accompanied a number of families to meet S-S and made three submissions. In his report he dismissed me and the demands I had made for a new inquest.. In July 1998 I managed to gain access to all police statements in their various forms. I was allowed to read them in the House of Lords Reading Room. I took multiple copies. It was then that I decided to write Hillsborough: The Truth and the first edition was published in March 1999 ... the Sunday Mirror ran a centre-page spread 'HOW THE TRUTH WAS CENSORED'. I have no idea why this wasn't acknowledged in the doc nor why, given my central role in researching and writing the HIP Report, I wasn't asked to contribute.

[Barrow Shaun]

Thanks for your comment on the police statements. The documentary suggested that David Conn of the Guardian revealed the reviewed and altered statements just ahead of the 20th Anniversary when AB spoke. In fact, I met with a former SYP officer three times in 1996 and 1997. On the third occasion he gave me is reviewed and altered statement. It was in three forms - handwritten, typed and with alterations written in pen and initialed by a senior SYP officer, and a clean copy. He had refused to sign it yet his signature was at the foot of every page: 'Yes, it is my signature, but I didn't put it there'. On 24 October 1997 he accompanied me to an interview with Stuart-Smith who gave him a hard time. I also accompanied a number of families to meet S-S and made three submissions. In his report he dismissed me and the demands I had made for a new inquest.. In July 1998 I managed to gain access to all police statements in their various forms. I was allowed to read them in the House of Lords Reading Room. I took multiple copies. It was then that I decided to write Hillsborough: The Truth and the first edition was published in March 1999 ... the Sunday Mirror ran a centre-page spread 'HOW THE TRUTH WAS CENSORED'. I have no idea why this wasn't acknowledged in the doc nor why, given my central role in researching and writing the HIP Report, I wasn't asked to contribute.

Maybe I didn't watch it properly but to me, the revelation about the doctored police statements was all from you. I remember David Conn talking in the doc but I associated all the research and unearthing with you, solely - starting with you searching for the guy you saw on the telly and then your walk on the hills above/near Sheffield, and from the box he showed you on your third meeting.
I loved the feeling in your contributions to this documentary too - you could feel the raw emotions in there.

[duvva 💅]

Thanks for your comment on the police statements. The documentary suggested that David Conn of the Guardian revealed the reviewed and altered statements just ahead of the 20th Anniversary when AB spoke. In fact, I met with a former SYP officer three times in 1996 and 1997. On the third occasion he gave me is reviewed and altered statement. It was in three forms - handwritten, typed and with alterations written in pen and initialed by a senior SYP officer, and a clean copy. He had refused to sign it yet his signature was at the foot of every page: 'Yes, it is my signature, but I didn't put it there'. On 24 October 1997 he accompanied me to an interview with Stuart-Smith who gave him a hard time. I also accompanied a number of families to meet S-S and made three submissions. In his report he dismissed me and the demands I had made for a new inquest.. In July 1998 I managed to gain access to all police statements in their various forms. I was allowed to read them in the House of Lords Reading Room. I took multiple copies. It was then that I decided to write Hillsborough: The Truth and the first edition was published in March 1999 ... the Sunday Mirror ran a centre-page spread 'HOW THE TRUTH WAS CENSORED'. I have no idea why this wasn't acknowledged in the doc nor why, given my central role in researching and writing the HIP Report, I wasn't asked to contribute.

Phil, Is the documentary you’re involved in the Dan Gordon one, or is there another?

Was the Dan Gordon one available before it was withdrawn, as I’m sure I watched it when it was originally released but could be confused?

When you say you weren’t asked to be involved do you mean the Anne doc? I did get a feeling they were coming at it from a more personal angle with the Anne programme and doc, so perhaps that’s why?

Edit: When I say personal I don’t mean it isn’t personal to you or didn’t have a personal impact I meant it really seemed to be showing the angle of impact on a mother or family who lost someone and how the impact affected them through the years. Hope it didn’t sound dismissive as it wasn’t meant that way.

[Barrow Shaun]

Phil, Is the documentary you’re involved in the Dan Gordon one, or is there another?........

I'm now confused by which doc is which. The one I watched the other day (not the Anne drama or follow-up Anne doc) started with the police prank and went through to the Hillsborough Independent Panel, and mostly narrated/presented by Phil Scraton. It was 2 hours and I'd definitely seen it before.

[duvva 💅]

I'm now confused by which doc is which. The one I watched the other day (not the Anne drama or follow-up Anne doc) started with the police prank and went through to the Hillsborough Independent Panel, and mostly narrated/presented by Phil Scraton. It was 2 hours and I'd definitely seen it before.

I think it probably is the Dan Gordon one as I recall the start with the prank.

[Thepooloflife]

I wasn't sure I wanted to watch this when I saw it advertised - but, after reading this thread, I finally plucked up the courage and watched it all on ITV hub over the weekend. But, I'm glad I did now. I still wept uncontrollably at times.....at other moments there was seething anger.

I never realised before this programme that Kevin and his mate Andy were in the same pen as me in the Leppings Lane or that, incredibly, they went into Pen 3 - I actually did the opposite earlier on, coming out of Pen 3 via the tunnel as I didn't like the spec and going round to the side pen......there by the grace of God.

I'd read about Anne Williams and her courageous fight for justice for her son, which was replicated 96 times over by the other families - but this drama, somehow, by focussing on Anne's very personal family tragedy, for me brought home all the painful and raw emotional feelings of when a family loses a loved one....and by God, did it sure do that. I think the moment that got to me most was the scene in the last episode near the end, where Anne's on the train home after the new inquests verdict, and closes her eyes to think back to an earlier Christmas when she gives Kevin his necklace present and sees his eyes light up when he opens it......wow, I was in bits then.

Maxine Peake was simply fantastic and deserves a Bafta for such a stunning performance. But credit should go to the writer Kevin Sampson, too - in giving warmth, feeling and pathos to a familiar story. Wonderful writing........I salute you Kevin.

Mostly I salute Anne and her family - and all the other families and victims of Hillsborough, both lost and surviving, who will never be forgotten.

God bless the 97..........Justice for the 97.

[rob1966]

Spoke to our kid last night, he managed about 20 mins before breaking down and had to stop, the funeral home scene had him in floods. Brought it all back vividly to him being 19, how Kevin nipped in to the kitchen to take the piss that he had a ticket and was going the game, how he was told by the barman that Kev had been killed, asking who, I don't know know the regulars in the bar, no, Annes Kev, who? Kev from the kitchen, fuck off, no way. Then having to tell the kitchen staff Kev was dead and then all going fuck off no way, not being allowed to shut the restaurant, not being allowed time off to go the funeral as the bosses said they would represent and keep the restaurant open, Anne asking him why he wasn't there and him having no answer, wishing he'd had jacked his job and gone and Anne telling him how much Kev looked up to him.

[Thepooloflife]

Spoke to our kid last night, he managed about 20 mins before breaking down and had to stop, the funeral home scene had him in floods. Brought it all back vividly to him being 19, how Kevin nipped in to the kitchen to take the piss that he had a ticket and was going the game, how he was told by the barman that Kev had been killed, asking who, I don't know know the regulars in the bar, no, Annes Kev, who? Kev from the kitchen, fuck off, no way. Then having to tell the kitchen staff Kev was dead and then all going fuck off no way, not being allowed to shut the restaurant, not being allowed time off to go the funeral as the bosses said they would represent and keep the restaurant open, Anne asking him why he wasn't there and him having no answer, wishing he'd had jacked his job and gone and Anne telling him how much Kev looked up to him.

That's awful Rob - so many heart-breaking stories of how this has affected so many lives.

[Barrow Shaun]

This is the thing I will never understand.

If I say something false in a statement to any police officer, I am sure I am committing some kind of crime and can be punished, if proven.

So why aren't these people accountable, when proven to have changed statements???

Why?  Why is someone not guilty of 'perverting the course of justice' or somesuch? Really, WHY???!!!

Someone please feel free to fucking explain that to me.

[PhilScraton]

Dan's 2016 doc is on BBC iplayer: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07bgnkn/hillsborough