Author Topic: Sexual Abuser Donald Trump Indicted  (Read 377288 times)

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #3320 on: November 19, 2022, 12:53:22 pm »
Kirschner was pretty pissed off. Appointing a SC because Trump is a presidential candidate is fair enough, but there was two fucking years where he WASN'T a presidential candidate, and the Mueller Report laying out ample evidence of wrong doing.
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Online John C

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3321 on: November 21, 2022, 10:29:57 am »
Allison Gill on the Daily Beans podcast clearly explained the situation which gave a positive emphasis on the appointment of a SC. I feel happier now after listening to her, in fact I now feel there's more of a chance of progressing towards some sort of indictment against Trump than ever :)

Offline Scottymuser

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3322 on: November 21, 2022, 04:16:56 pm »
Too shit scared to do it himself. If Garland wanted a special counsel then he should have done it two fucking years ago.  How much more time is this going to waste?

Leaving it up to the states, like Georgia and NY to deal with the orange slimeball is an act of cowardice.

It certainly won't take any more time with a Special Counsel then leaving it to the AG/DOJ with all the other things he/they have to do, for one - it frees up the DOJ from being seen as "totally partisan" for another.  I know that it is unlikely that the GOP would care, but it will 100% help persuade the large independent swing voters. 

Whilst there is a lot of good prosecutors in the DOJ, with vast amounts of experience at federal prosecution - Merrick Garland as AG is actually one of the least experienced, with 10 years in corporate litigation, only 3 as a federal attorney (and an additional 4 as a Deputy AG), before 24 years as a judge.  Jack Smith is an outstanding prosecutor, with almost 30 years of experience (joined in 1994, never not been involved as some form of state of federal prosecutor, US Attorney role or similar). 

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3323 on: November 21, 2022, 05:08:43 pm »
It certainly won't take any more time with a Special Counsel then leaving it to the AG/DOJ with all the other things he/they have to do, for one - it frees up the DOJ from being seen as "totally partisan" for another.  I know that it is unlikely that the GOP would care, but it will 100% help persuade the large independent swing voters. 

Whilst there is a lot of good prosecutors in the DOJ, with vast amounts of experience at federal prosecution - Merrick Garland as AG is actually one of the least experienced, with 10 years in corporate litigation, only 3 as a federal attorney (and an additional 4 as a Deputy AG), before 24 years as a judge.  Jack Smith is an outstanding prosecutor, with almost 30 years of experience (joined in 1994, never not been involved as some form of state of federal prosecutor, US Attorney role or similar).

My issue is that if you're going to appoint an SC, then why not do it two years ago?  What was the hold up? 
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Offline KillieRed

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3324 on: November 21, 2022, 09:41:17 pm »
My issue is that if you're going to appoint an SC, then why not do it two years ago?  What was the hold up?

They maybe wanted to get the “easy” prosecutions out of the way? It’s has seemed glacial though, and just helped Trumps eternal stalling tactics on all things legal in the hopes other events come to save him. Not investigating potential presidential candidates is just ludicrous. I say do a deep dive on the all!
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3325 on: November 21, 2022, 09:46:02 pm »
Whilst Garland spent the past two years spinning his wheels, the GOP house will spend the next two years investigating Hunter Biden's laptop, charging Pelosi with treason and trying to impeach the president every week. Fucking melts.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3326 on: November 21, 2022, 10:47:27 pm »
Allison Gill has emailed this to subscribers to her podcast:-


THREAD: THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MUELLER & JACK SMITH. So there's been a lot of reaction to the appointment of Special Counsel Jack Smith - both positive & negative - along with comparisons to all the bad things about the Mueller investigation. Let me outline the differences. 
First, Jack Smith won't be working under the constant threat of being fired by a hostile AG and a dipshit president. That sword of Damocles constantly forced Mueller to walk a fine line, and that won't be the case in this Special Counsel probe. 
Second, there's no Rod Rosenstein - a cowardly wisp of a man - to narrow the scope of this probe. Rod clipped the Mueller probe to a paper-thin investigation, and then promised to "land the plane" based on his curtailing of the breadth of Mueller's work.
Third, there is no longer a Bill Barr-type asshole to sit on the findings and spin them for weeks in favor of trump. Nor is there anyone to inappropriately redact the final report to hide the severity of Russia's involvement in the election.
Fourth, THERE IS NO OLC MEMO SAYING YOU CANT INDICT A FORMER PRESIDENT. Mueller felt he was bound by what most people see as an unconstitutional OLC memo that prohibited Mueller from indicting donald - and therefore - meant he couldn't even accuse him of a crime.
Fifth, the only OLC memo that was even discussed was one that said advisors to the president have blanket immunity, but DoJ has already declared in court filings that memo does not apply. There's also no executive privilege. That belongs to Biden and he's refused to invoke it.
Sixth, privilege arguments have largely been resolved with the court battle over the testimony of Pat Cipollone, Pat Philbin, Greg Jacob, and Marc Short. Probably also Eric Herschmann.
Seventh, Jack Smith does not need to take weeks to assemble a team as most of the prosecutors and agents working on the criminal probes now will move over to the Special Counsel's office. And both Garland and Smith have assured speed and urgency.
Eighth, DoJ already has testimony from dozens of witnesses, including the 40 or so subpoenas they issued before the 60 day election blackout in the fraudulent electors investigation, and folks like Kash Patel in the documents case.
Ninth, Smith has the advantage of a recent Special Counsel probe into donald for reference. He closer to his practical experience than Mueller was, and he has a low profile (he wasn't the FBI director for 12 years for example.)

So, there are many things that make this investigation different from the Mueller probe. Though if this Special Counsel uses prosecutorial discretion to decline to prosecute, I think we can all agree that will be the death knell of the rule of law in America. END/

Offline Scottymuser

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3327 on: November 22, 2022, 09:53:57 am »
They maybe wanted to get the “easy” prosecutions out of the way? It’s has seemed glacial though, and just helped Trumps eternal stalling tactics on all things legal in the hopes other events come to save him. Not investigating potential presidential candidates is just ludicrous. I say do a deep dive on the all!

Also - it gave them about 20 months to work on the issue internally, with the Deputy AG taking the lead (under Garland, and reporting to him) to solidify the evidence, before then bringing in the SC after to drive it home.  It's not like they have been "spinning their wheels" as some have suggested - they have had 1000s of hours of testimony from all sorts of people, they sent the FBI on a raid to Mar a Lago (which still being DOJ led might have been easier to swing even), etc. 

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3328 on: November 22, 2022, 12:15:35 pm »
"Some" meaning me, as I'm the only one who said it. ;)

I maintain an investigation could have been announced/launched years ago. The timing is deliberate, but the reasoning remains ambiguous.
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Offline Boston always unofficial

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3329 on: November 22, 2022, 09:31:42 pm »
I kinda glaze over with the numbers stuff.But this has gotta be a positive to getting the fuckhead?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63724223

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3330 on: November 22, 2022, 10:39:38 pm »
^^ ^
with no dissent either, interesting.

I think it's always been stated that this info was never supposed to be for public consumption but as the article says a teeny weeny leak may occur in due course.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3331 on: November 22, 2022, 10:57:39 pm »
They've got two months to do something with it.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3332 on: November 22, 2022, 11:03:29 pm »
They've got two months to do something with it.
Worse. More like 6 weeks. 3rd Jan is when the Republicans take over.
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Offline thejbs

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3333 on: November 22, 2022, 11:09:37 pm »
Just to go all conspiracy theorist, is this a move from the GOP to take trump out of the running for president? An arrest for trump not only stops him running, but the GOP can use it to fire up his base against the dems. Whereas, if he runs, he could take down the party when he (inevitably) loses the primaries.

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3334 on: November 22, 2022, 11:19:50 pm »
Just to go all conspiracy theorist, is this a move from the GOP to take trump out of the running for president? An arrest for trump not only stops him running, but the GOP can use it to fire up his base against the dems. Whereas, if he runs, he could take down the party when he (inevitably) loses the primaries.
No mate, its a Dems congressional committee that is responsible for presidential oversight. They are entitled to see his tax returns and he refused.
I think so anyway :)

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3335 on: November 22, 2022, 11:27:56 pm »
No mate, its a Dems congressional committee that is responsible for presidential oversight. They are entitled to see his tax returns and he refused.
I think so anyway :)

But it's a GOP Supreme Court  ;)
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3336 on: November 23, 2022, 09:03:30 am »
But it's a GOP Supreme Court  ;)

SCOTUS agreed largely because there's barely any time left for the Democrats to make anything of them before Republicans bury the whole thing.

This way saves them from having to set an awkward precedent; ruling in favour of a Republican president now would necessitate some mental and legal gymnastics to justify ruling against a Democrat president in the future. :)

Yes. I AM that cynical.
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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3337 on: November 23, 2022, 09:09:01 am »
SCOTUS agreed largely because there's barely any time left for the Democrats to make anything of them before Republicans bury the whole thing.

This way saves them from having to set an awkward precedent; ruling in favour of a Republican president now would necessitate some mental and legal gymnastics to justify ruling against a Democrat president in the future. :)

Yes. I AM that cynical.

Pretty much a favourite past-time of the GOP right there.
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Offline thejbs

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3338 on: November 23, 2022, 09:10:44 am »
No mate, its a Dems congressional committee that is responsible for presidential oversight. They are entitled to see his tax returns and he refused.
I think so anyway :)

Oh yeah, I know. But I meant the Supreme Court ruling. It was unanimous- including Trump’s plants on the court. Not a single conservative judge voted against.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3339 on: November 23, 2022, 09:30:26 am »
If the Democrats had held the house things might have been different.  We'll never know though.

Expect Biden to be impeached at least five times over the next two years.
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Offline Zlen

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3340 on: November 23, 2022, 09:35:12 am »
Nothing will come of it, that much was clear as soon as Garland took over office and proceeed to twiddle his fucking thumbs relentlessly.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3341 on: November 23, 2022, 10:10:01 am »
My main hope is that the returns are turned over to the new SC. Let's see.
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Offline KillieRed

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3342 on: November 23, 2022, 11:13:00 am »
Biden should ignore all House subpoenas and just issue a statement: “the precedent has been set”.

As for the fabled tax returns I look forward to them being leaked. There’s not enough time to do anything with them.
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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3343 on: November 29, 2022, 10:26:55 pm »
Some good news, two Oath Keepers, including Stewart Rhodes, have been convicted of seditious conspiracy.
Rot you gobshite :)

https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/oath-keepers-trial-verdict/index.html

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3344 on: November 29, 2022, 10:28:08 pm »
All 5 on trial convicted of disrupting an official proceeding.

Tick tock orange kipper.

Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #3345 on: December 1, 2022, 10:57:53 pm »
Quote
Appeals court says FBI can use all documents seized in Mar-a-Lago search and ends special master review

A three-judge panel of the US Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit has reversed a Florida federal judge’s ruling that has prohibited the FBI from using nearly all documents seized during the 8 August search of former president Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago club to further the criminal probe into the ex-president.

In an unsigned opinion, Chief Judge William Pryor and Circuit Judges Andrew Brasher and Britt Grant wrote that Judge Cannon never had the authority to hear a civil case Mr Trump filed with the aim of stopping the use of the documents as the FBI and Justice Department investigated whether he’d violated criminal laws against unlawful retention of national defence information and obstructing justice.

“The law is clear. We cannot write a rule that allows any subject of a search warrant to block government investigations after the execution of the warrant. Nor can we write a rule that allows only former presidents to do so,” they wrote. “Either approach would be a radical reordering of our caselaw limiting the federal courts’ involvement in criminal investigations. And both would violate bedrock separation-of-powers limitations”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-maralago-documents-fbi-ruling-b2237341.html
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #3346 on: December 1, 2022, 11:00:05 pm »


Nice!!

Hopefully sanctions to follow Judge Cannon

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Re: Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #3347 on: December 1, 2022, 11:01:18 pm »
Can they impeach Judge Cannon now, please.

Offline Boston always unofficial

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3348 on: December 1, 2022, 11:03:05 pm »

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3349 on: December 1, 2022, 11:13:37 pm »
Big news considering SC Jack Smith. In theory, he could issue indictments almost immediately.
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Online John C

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3350 on: December 6, 2022, 04:03:07 pm »
Everybody around Trump gets in trouble and ends up in jail. He has figured the system out though and continues to play everyone like a fiddle. He is one slippery fucker. Thousands sitting in jail for years for stuff like weed and non payment of fines, tax evasion.....yet he can rile a mob up and send them to the capitol and try overthrow the government,beat the police up .....that woman that was shot and killed in the capitol ....the cop that died...none of that would have happened but for this fuck. If anything it has shown how weak America is as a society and how fucked up the legal system is, because they have let an absolute weapon like Trump just take the piss and it's still going on.
After my initial concern about the appointment of SC, Jack Smith, I'm now heartened by the prospect of Trump eventually facing an indictment (or two) after listening to the first episode of the new podcast 'You Don't Know Jack', which is only available on subscription.
The Mueller She Wrote creator Allison Gill is doing it with Former Deputy FBI Director Andy McCabe and it's great even 1 episode in.

Offline nozza

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3351 on: December 6, 2022, 05:22:49 pm »
After my initial concern about the appointment of SC, Jack Smith, I'm now heartened by the prospect of Trump eventually facing an indictment (or two) after listening to the first episode of the new podcast 'You Don't Know Jack', which is only available on subscription.
The Mueller She Wrote creator Allison Gill is doing it with Former Deputy FBI Director Andy McCabe and it's great even 1 episode in.
I will check that podcast out mate. Thx.

Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3352 on: December 6, 2022, 08:54:25 pm »
Trump Organization Found Guilty in Tax Fraud Scheme
The former president’s company had been accused of providing off-the-book benefits to executives. The testimony of its former chief financial officer proved crucial to the case.
Quote
Dec. 6, 2022, 3:52 p.m. ET1 minute ago
1 minute ago
Jonah Bromwich

The jury has found both Trump defendants guilty on all counts.

Jonah Bromwich
Dec. 6, 2022, 3:51 p.m. ET2 minutes ago
2 minutes ago
Jonah Bromwich

The jury has found the Trump Corporation guilty on all counts. We are now going through the Trump Payroll Corporation.

Lola Fadulu
Dec. 6, 2022, 3:50 p.m. ET3 minutes ago
3 minutes ago
Lola Fadulu

The jury finds the Trump Organization guilty on the second count, conspiracy in the fourth degree.

Jonah Bromwich
Dec. 6, 2022, 3:50 p.m. ET3 minutes ago
3 minutes ago
Jonah Bromwich

The jury find the Trump Organization guilty on the third and fourth counts.

Jonah Bromwich
Dec. 6, 2022, 3:50 p.m. ET3 minutes ago
3 minutes ago
Jonah Bromwich

The jury finds the Trump Organization guilty on the sixth and seventh counts, of falsyifying business records.

Jonah Bromwich
Dec. 6, 2022, 3:50 p.m. ET3 minutes ago
3 minutes ago
Jonah Bromwich

The jury finds the Trump Organization guilty on the first count.

More to come...
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3353 on: December 6, 2022, 09:00:50 pm »
Trump Organization Found Guilty in Tax Fraud Scheme
The former president’s company had been accused of providing off-the-book benefits to executives. The testimony of its former chief financial officer proved crucial to the case.

More to come...
Well that's surprising and pleasant.

What comes next?

Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3354 on: December 6, 2022, 09:10:02 pm »
Well that's surprising and pleasant.

What comes next?

Max $1.6m fine which is buttons for him. But he will get to carry the badge of having his name above the door of a tax dodging company. Hopefully, that will make your average joe think 'why aren't rich people paying their way?'.

However, Trump's argument will be what he said back in 2016 in that he's “smart” by not paying income taxes — and argued that if he did, the money would be “squandered.”
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Offline Chakan

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3355 on: December 6, 2022, 09:12:29 pm »
Max $1.6m fine which is buttons for him. But he will get to carry the badge of having his name above the door of a tax dodging company. Hopefully, that will make your average joe think 'why aren't rich people paying their way?'.

However, Trump's argument will be what he said back in 2016 in that he's “smart” by not paying income taxes — and argued that if he did, the money would be “squandered.”


That's it?

Well fuck me, really a nothing burger then.

Back out of this thread.

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3356 on: December 6, 2022, 09:18:37 pm »

Back out of this thread.
;D

It's worth raising a glass to another Trump defeat though.

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3357 on: December 6, 2022, 09:19:42 pm »
Jan 6 committee now making criminal referral also haha

Offline Circa1892

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3358 on: December 6, 2022, 09:21:10 pm »
;D

It's worth raising a glass to another Trump defeat though.

It is - but it won’t make right wing news channels so won’t make a splash outside New York

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Legal repercussions for Trump and his cabal
« Reply #3359 on: December 6, 2022, 09:25:42 pm »
The Trump organisation can receive something I've seen referred to as the corporate death penalty. I think that's essentially being barred from doing business in New York State, and as it's based out of there it would basically be finished as an entity.

This is why they've tried to set up "Trump Org 2.0" in Florida, but the DA got a supervisor in to make sure they couldn't quietly transfer all the assets and liquidity from one company to another, reducing the New York entity to just shell.


This is actually very big news, as it loads weight on Alvin Bragg restarting the criminal case against Trump.

EDIT: Ignore the above, that refers to the $250m civil case being levied by AG Letitia James. But this criminal conviction surely helps her case against the organisation, and it still puts pressure on Bragg to do something.
« Last Edit: December 6, 2022, 09:28:21 pm by Have Yourself a Red Berry Little Xmas »
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