Topic: how good was Steve McMahon

[Red number seven]

There was a lot of shit spoken after Vinnie Jones' tackle on him in the '88 Cup Final. Jones should have got a straight red. Never saw McMahon pull out of anything, but he wasn't a dirty player - just loved a good tackle.

Quite right it was a bad challenge, and would absolutely have walked for it now. McMahon did have a quiet final, whether the two were linked or not, who knows?

Like I say, these narratives are often created to explain surprise results - "History written by the winners" and all that. Had Beardsely's goal stood or the pen been scored we'd have gone on to win the double and everyone would've forgotten about it.

[Greg]

Great player. Proper passionate and got everywhere. Boss memories of him.

- Barnes played a boss through ball with the outside of his left foot, Mc mahon made a boss run, great finish, went mental with Aldridge.

- unused sub against Everton in 86. Didn't understand how Kevin McDonald kept him out the side, but I was only a kid then, didn't really understand much...

- another cracker against Everton... "Rush sent a gentle invitation to McMahon....", fucking screamer.

- keeping the ball in against Arsenal, before setting up Aldo's goal.

- Norman Whiteside committing a horrific foul on him once, raking his studs right down his shin, can't even remember him getting booked for it.

- scored both against Man City on a bank holiday.

- Come on Bobby Robson, he's the man, cos if anyone can...

- boss chip against Crystal Palace in the 9-0

- diving header and then sliding into the goalpost, FA Cup I think.

- loads more memories, but can't remember them.

[jaffod]

- loads more memories, but can't remember them.

[a glass of wine Sir?]

- loads more memories, but can't remember them.

now there's a contradiction if you ever want to read one!!   

[No.7 The King]

Another Souness mistake in getting rid of too early, along with Beardsley, he was only 30 when shipped to Man City.

[Vinay]

Fantastic player; and has never properly replaced (as Souness has never been properly replaced either).  Neither Gerrard nor Mascherano can be compared because thy are very different players, doing different things in different eras. Like Souness, he wouldn't get away with many of the things he did on the field in this day and age. For example, the elbow on Gascoigne's nose and the wink and smile to the camera after it would have got him a good 3 game ban today.

[Ruddock]

One of my favourite players from that era. He could shoot very well, scored some absolute screamers. His short an long range passing was very good. He had a good engine and was a ferocious tackler, maybe too aggressive sometimes. He was also a good leader for most of the time, pushed on his team mates and didn´t let his head drop (maybe with the exception of that infamous FA cup final against Wimbledon  ). By the way Vinnie Jones said before that game that if he could stop McMahon, then Wimbledon could stop Liverpool.

Him and Whelan complemented each other perfectly, with Whelan often in a holding role and McMahon with his box to box runs. McMahons surging runs from midfield opened up the defences of the opposing teams on numerous occassions.

[Vinay]

He was quite dirty, I remember a few things he did..

Him and Graham Sharp arguing with the ref, McMahan held up two fingers to suggest to the ref that something had happened twice, when the ref turned away the two fingers went in Sharpes eyes.

Kicked Mark Hughes (I thnk?) around the pitch, until Hughes got sent off, turned and winked to the TV cameras.

I can also remember a horror tackle on vinny jones, payback after Jones clattered him in the 88 cup final.  Jones needed a tonne of stitches on a big gash in his leg.

All them; Graham Sharp, Mark Hughes and Vinnie Jones were lovely chaps!

[danbylfc]

Its nice to see good things said about him as i was named after this guy and obviously didnt see him play. But when i was younger i used to think i was named after Mcmanaman but then realised he wasnt even around when i was born.

[CognacBut]

He was my favourite player when I was a kid, the one I wanted to be. I reckon that alone says a lot considering the players he was surrounded by.

[Filler.]

One of my favourite players. If you catch me on a particular day I'd probably put McMahon next to McDermott as a fantasy centre midfield, and he's always one of those players that I'd like to have in our side again. Can't understand the comparisons to Lucas at all tho. And that moment where he keeps the ball in that's already been mentioned, is just effing fantastic.

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[AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful]

As for the OP, he wasn't a similar player to Mascherano.

[Roy of the rovers]

ten times the player Mascherano was, is, or ever will be. A box to box, all action, old style centre mid who could do everything,

fabulous player.

Apart from the first sentence, absolutely spot on.

[Ruddock]

One of my favourite players. If you catch me on a particular day I'd probably put McMahon next to McDermott as a fantasy centre midfield.
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Two of my fave players as well. But I´m not so sure they complement each other that well. McDermott had Souness mopping up behind him and Whelan did the same for McMahon.

[AnnieRoad(Un)Faithful]

He was my favourite player when I was a kid, the one I wanted to be. I reckon that alone says a lot considering the players he was surrounded by.

My favourite was Steve Nicol...and I was so pleased that he was the only player to score twice in the 9-0 thrashing of Palace!

[Tom_B]

ten times the player Mascherano was, is, or ever will be. A box to box, all action, old style centre mid who could do everything,

fabulous player.

Ten times the player? Don't be ridiculous. They were different players for a start, but Mascherano is still a world class player at what he does, and bitterness doesn't change that.

[Red number seven]

Why would you compare him to Whiteside and Steven? One was a striker who dropped back into midfield when his legs went and one was a RM/winger.
 I don't see the Lucas comparison either.

I think the Lucas comparison is the fantasy combination of Lucas' reputation from Gremio as a goalscoring attaking midfielder and the robust, hardworking central midfielder we've got. As I say, we haven't seen the Gremio side of his game anything like enough to compare him to McMahon.

I'd have said Whiteside never had the legs to play up front, not that they went! My memory of it was that he moved into midifeld very early in his career because he had no pace, was better in midfield and Hughes was coming through. His move to midfield preceeded his knee injuries from memory

[Breitner]

I would compare him more to Lucas (when allowed to be a box-to-box player).

Nothing like him. Macca was mobile, tenacious and always a goal threat, the epitome of box to box. None of this rigid shape rubbish back then. There's a great moment in one of the derby's where he and Aldo almost butt each after a goal, the passion was incredible. Enjoyed him poking Graham Sharp in the eye as well.

[Red number seven]

Nothing like him. Macca was mobile, tenacious and always a goal threat, the epitome of box to box. None of this rigid shape rubbish back then. There's a great moment in one of the derby's where he and Aldo almost butt each after a goal, the passion was incredible. Enjoyed him poking Graham Sharp in the eye as well.

They are seemingly very different, but their skill set is not that far apart. The bit in bold is more the point, in my opinion.

I suspect Lucas, were he around in 1988, would've been used in a similar was to McMahon, and if McMahon was around today I imagine he would be employed as the more adventurous of two holding midfielders.

Lucas reputation from Gremio and the odd glimpse suggests he could do a lot more in an attacking sense but the constraints of modern tactics seem to prevent this.

[No Way José]

Terrific midfielder who could do it all. Pass, tackle, dictate tempo, score great goals and also leave a foot in when required. That midfield of the mid 80s with Macca, Whelan and Molby was phenomenal - silky skill, goals by the bucketload  plus steel in abundance.

[davidg]

T

Ten times the player? Don't be ridiculous. They were different players for a start, but Mascherano is still a world class player at what he does, and bitterness doesn't change that.

Where am I bitter about masch? I just think mcmahon was a much, much better player.

 Is that ok?

[Breitner]

They are seemingly very different, but their skill set is not that far apart. The bit in bold is more the point, in my opinion.

I suspect Lucas, were he around in 1988, would've been used in a similar was to McMahon, and if McMahon was around today I imagine he would be employed as the more adventurous of two holding midfielders.

Lucas reputation from Gremio and the odd glimpse suggests he could do a lot more in an attacking sense but the constraints of modern tactics seem to prevent this.

You might be right but in terms of character and aggression they're poles apart. Lucas, IMO, is more Dunga like, intelligent, controlled, disciplined but lacks the presence to really dominate a midfield on a consistant basis. In those great sides we had leaders all over the pitch,

[paulrazor]

pity we lost cos the goal he got against palace in the semi in 1990 was quality

[trigger]

Remember being in the Kop when he was getting shit all afternoon when playing for Villa, finally lost his head and got sent off and gave us 2 fingers on the way off

Signed for us and all was forgiven...awesome player 

[Red number seven]

You might be right but in terms of character and aggression they're poles apart. Lucas, IMO, is more Dunga like, intelligent, controlled, disciplined but lacks the presence to really dominate a midfield on a consistant basis. In those great sides we had leaders all over the pitch,

Yeah, Dunga's a fair comparison and was one of the first of his ilk in football brought in specifically because of the failings of the classy but soft-underbellied and undisciplined 82 Brasil side. There's nothing wrong with being that kind of player, just that Lucas wasn't being compared to Dunga when he arrived, more Falcao.

I have said before the next stage for Lucas is dominating games, particularly the ones we are the better side in.

I think good sides don't relish playing against him, but poor ones don't fear him enough.

[Breitner]

I think good sides don't relish playing against him, but poor ones don't fear him enough.

Excellent point, and it's one I keep reiterating when others posts stats as evidence of his worth. As much as we'd all love to play like Barca, to be succesful in this league it's also about fighting and scrapping when you have to, and having that hunger and winning mentality. I'm not sure we've got enough players with that at the moment, or maybe it's a club/era thing.

[Red number seven]

Excellent point, and it's one I keep reiterating when others posts stats as evidence of his worth. As much as we'd all love to play like Barca, to be succesful in this league it's also about fighting and scrapping when you have to, and having that hunger and winning mentality. I'm not sure we've got enough players with that at the moment, or maybe it's a club/era thing.

Hate to say it, but it is what United have had consistently over us for some time; not necessarily better players, just more ruthlessness and determination to win every game. Not blaming Lucas for that - I do like him and there's nothing wrong with being a disciplined patient holding midfielder, especially against better sides. But when you look at United evn their shit players like Park pop up and win games - why? simply belief and determination.

Winning begets winning, though, so it's not something you can just instill. Part of the reason Cantona was massive for them was the level of his self belief transcended their 26 years for failure and it rubbed off on other players..

[frankie biscan]

We all have our own opinions on players and our own favourites but comparing Lucas to McMahon is just
plain Cuckoo cuckoo, he wouldnt lace his boots!!

[Red number seven]

We all have our own opinions on players and our own favourites but comparing Lucas to McMahon is just
plain Cuckoo cuckoo, he wouldnt lace his boots!!

Thanks for you eloquent and constructive input.

Both central midfielders, both good on the ball, both physically strong and pretty intelligent. Lucas more patient and withdrawn but my contention is that that is more a function of modern tactics rather than a lack of ability. Agreed not as quick as McMahon.but not and not as aggressive, but not too dissimilar a skill set. Certainly wouldn't dismiss anyones comments as cuckoo. Especially not with comments like...

not sure what the thinking behind moving Johnson to left full as he cant defend his prefered side at the minute...Meireles is talented but too lightweight...

...to my name. They turned out well!

[paulrazor]

We all have our own opinions on players and our own favourites but comparing Lucas to McMahon is just
plain Cuckoo cuckoo, he wouldnt lace his boots!!

possibly but theres completely different

like comparing peter crouch with luis suarez

[frankie biscan]

Touché

Johnson has done well, much better than i thought but there is no way i would leave him there, to be honest i wouldnt have him right back either, especially with Kelly playing so well

As for Meireles he is talented and lightweight! dont see whats wrong with what i said at all! the role he has been playing of late suits him much better than being in the middle of the park, lost count of how many 50/50 balls he has lost, he has excelled with that extra bit of freedom to support the striker

The cuckoo cuckoo was suppose to be taken a bit tongue in cheek, didnt mean your actually nuts, please forgive me for my lack of eloquence and i'll try to be more constructive in the future i sometimes forget how hurtful my thoughts can be

[evered avenue]

He was so good we didn't miss Souness!

[Red number seven]

Touché

Johnson has done well, much better than i thought but there is no way i would leave him there, to be honest i wouldnt have him right back either, especially with Kelly playing so well

As for Meireles he is talented and lightweight! dont see whats wrong with what i said at all! the role he has been playing of late suits him much better than being in the middle of the park, lost count of how many 50/50 balls he has lost, he has excelled with that extra bit of freedom to support the striker

The cuckoo cuckoo was suppose to be taken a bit tongue in cheek, didnt mean your actually nuts, please forgive me for my lack of eloquence and i'll try to be more constructive in the future i sometimes forget how hurtful my thoughts can be

No worries mate. Agree with you that Meireles is lightweight, but his role allows that - just that some people think he can't play there because he's not a "tough tackler" and others seem to think he is some kind of hard man because he's bald with tatts, neither of which are true. He;s a nice footballer who plays in an attacking midfield role where tackling isn't necessarily a prerequisite n the modern game.

Re Lucas, I really wasn't hurt - it wasn't my comparison in the first place but I can see some similarities and some differences, some of which I believe to be related to the way the game is now. Just don't think the comparison is ridiculous and it's actually quite an instructive analysis of Lucas' game ot compare the two.

Many players would've been played in different roles and positions in 1988 (eg Glen Johnson would not have been a full back) because the games tactics have moved on. I don't think McMahon would've been as attacking as he is were he around today, and I don't believe Lucas would've been as disciplined and withdrawn had he played in 1988.

[nittinivala]

Admired his movement off the ball.Steve did not hide and tried even harder when things did not go according to the plan.

[gamble]

he wasn't just a hard man, he could also play as well. He was a proper footballer who could pass and move, glad kenny is back and seems to be looking for people who want to actually play the ball.

He would run all day and play with tempo.

[Red number seven]

He was so good we didn't miss Souness!

Wouldn't go that far. Whelan and McMahon were top drawer but Souness was the most complete midfielder of the era.

[Mad Men]

Wrong.

He rejected us to sign for Villa from Everton, actually, so he didn't upset their fans.

He later joined us because he didn't think it would upset them so much after a couple of years.

My bad.

[Mad Men]

T
Where am I bitter about masch? I just think mcmahon was a much, much better player.

 Is that ok?

You are entitled to your opinion. But comparing both players to each other is stupid. They are DIFFERENT KINDS of players.

Its like comparing Hyypia to Babb.

[Red number seven]

Its like comparing Hyypia to Babb.

Hyypia was miles better in every way.

[frankie biscan]

No worries mate. Agree with you that Meireles is lightweight, but his role allows that - just that some people think he can't play there because he's not a "tough tackler" and others seem to think he is some kind of hard man because he's bald with tatts, neither of which are true. He;s a nice footballer who plays in an attacking midfield role where tackling isn't necessarily a prerequisite n the modern game.

Re Lucas, I really wasn't hurt - it wasn't my comparison in the first place but I can see some similarities and some differences, some of which I believe to be related to the way the game is now. Just don't think the comparison is ridiculous and it's actually quite an instructive analysis of Lucas' game ot compare the two.

Many players would've been played in different roles and positions in 1988 (eg Glen Johnson would not have been a full back) because the games tactics have moved on. I don't think McMahon would've been as attacking as he is were he around today, and I don't believe Lucas would've been as disciplined and withdrawn had he played in 1988.

Yeah agree with a lot of your points i guess its all relevant to the time each of those lads played ball, the game proably wasnt so tactically based as it is nowadays to make in the 70's or 80's and a lesser extent the 90's and dont get me wrong i like Lucas and cant believe how much stick he use to get off our own supporters and find myself constantly defended him against some of my Manc or Chelsea friends but just McMahon had a lot more in his locker than Lucas, as for Meireles he is a lovely little footballer but with Gerrard on his way back do you stick Gerrard back a bit deeper??? because on current form Merieles has to stay where he is