Topic: Torres - The Reasons for Leaving - by Sid Lowe

[edeyj]

Says one thing to butter up the fans and then stabs them in the back in the most despicable way possible.

I don't like the tone of the article at all to be honest. States the case for Torres only. The timing of the transfer stinks and was managed purely by Torres, his advisers and Chelsea imo.

I can accept the theory that he wants success and he has to take what he believes to be the least risk option. But to do it the way he did stinks.

[Raul!]

By Jupiter's cock, do we need 900 threads for a player who no longer plays for us?

[Michaelanscombe]

Anyone seen this on the plastics Forum

http://shed.chelseafc.com/theshed/chat/posts/thread.shtml?808716

Even mentions about posting it on here

[Chivasino]

By Jupiter's cock, do we need 900 threads for a player who no longer plays for us?

Personally can't wait for the chelsea game to be over with so we can draw a line under it all and move Torres to the General Sports section on the forum.

Nothing in the OP article that we didn't know already or could've worked out.

He's gone. After sunday we move on.

Hopefully.

[Forest Hills]

Read this article last night when Sid posted it on Twitter.
I thought it was a well written piece, and made it a lot more difficult to hate the lad personally.
Although I have taken it with a pinch of salt, it certainly set the alarm bells ringing about NESV.
Not sure how legit the bulk of what he is trying to convey though, as Suarez deal was in negotiations long before Chelsea came knocking for Torres.

[Chaztastic]

The article sounds like a rehash of soundbites from this forum, verging on an apologia - a cri de couer, if you like - for the player.

It also reinforces my opinion the club played a blinder under the circumstances. And less we forget, it boils down to this:

"Make no mistake, Torres wanted that sale too and there was only one way to make it happen. He handed in a transfer request."

[Wendy Baby]

What Torres and his advisors have failed to count is how much more marketable LFC is than Chelsea across the globe. His brand will be affected by having fewer club fans.

Bigger club my hole.

Good point, and I will add Lowe is doing a job for Torres probably voluntary in the hope of being closer to the Chelsea set up. Torres might bemoan the fact he wasn't in a championship side, but hey! he should have been on the Kop for the last season and a halve, watching consistent diabolical performances, his included, if he wanted real frustration.

In spite of Lowe trying to conjure some honest reasoning on the part of Torres for his leaving it falls flat. You don't research conjecture, you make it up. Lowe is no different from the rest of the sports hacks.

We as fans have to learn that footballers are not true human beings, they have a code all to themselves. It’s a mixture of schoolboy, artist and business person. One thing that centres their metabolism is self interest. Strange this when we consider they earn their living supposedly bringing entertainment and joy to others but some of the best comedians are the most miserable people alive, allegedly

We fans continue to act like serial cuckolds, onwards and upwards to the next bright star.Torres was the worst mainly cos he is the most recent, but a process that as a club in the modern game we witnessed with Kevin Keegan still doesn’t make us fans suspicious of players professing their undying love for us. The standing ovation given to Carrol on Wednesday is a worry to anyone recovering from a broken heart

Lowe's piece might pass for a poor dissertation but looking beyond under and over it, it’s a simple whitewash, a sports hack doing what these animals do best write in their own interest.   

[Vinay]

That doesn't make sense to me. The Dzeko transfer was wrapped up by 7th January.
If they were waiting for City to sign Dzeko, why did nothing happen for 3 weeks after that?

And why did Torres view Suarez as his replacement, when Liverpool had been in negotations to buy him him for more than a week before the Chelsea bid? Either all parties had resigned themselves to Torres' departure long before the public announcements started, or Torres is simply using it as an excuse.


As far as convincing him to stay goes, Liverpool seem to have spent most of his time at the club doing that. How much effort are they supposed to put in on a player who clearly didn't want to be here? He put in a transfer request. That isn't a concerned player wanting reassurances, that's a player already halfway out the door.


This bit just made me think of Owen's transfer to Newcastle.

In fact, Suarez was being watched by Rafa and the whole team (so that would include Dalglish), as long ago as when Dalglish was appointed by Rafa.
But no, I have no problem at all with Torres and certainly do not hate him. It was all Hicks and Gillette's doing, compounded by Purslow and exacerbated by dumb Hodgson (Carragher might have a part as well in the atmosphere among players). at the end of the day business wise we made a coup, and the team is better.

Well written article except for a few typos and some drama which Lowe could have done without.

[NeilR]

No mention of how Torres never thanked the Liverpool fans or club for the last fews years (which is one of my biggest gripes about him going). In my eyes he wasn't man enough to say I want a move, I'm going and I'm walking out the front door with my head held high with thanks for all the fans support over the last few years. Instead he slithered his way out the back door effectively with not a thought for the fans or mention of them at all. The first we hear him speak was after he signed for the Chelsea, and he is rubbing salt in the owounds by making statements like Chelsea are a bigger club. Is he that daft to realise that wording what ever he was trying to get across that way was going to peev off the fans who spend the last few years idolising him? I think not!

No matter what happened behind closed doors with him and the club (broken promises etc), he should have had more respect and a word for us the fans. He didn't so he will deservedly be the villan. Take Alonso's departure from us. Things happened behind the scenes and his relationship with the club (Rafa looking to ship him to make way for Barry when Xabi didnt want to leave), but he still held his head up when he got his move and acted professionally and made sure he thanked the fans. Thats why we still love him and wish him well. He is still a fan and is welcome back here to watch (or play ;-)  ) anytime, which he does do. Can't see Torres being afforded the same hospitality.

[KiNki]

The article sounds like a rehash of soundbites from this forum, verging on an apologia - a cri de couer, if you like - for the player.

It also reinforces my opinion the club played a blinder under the circumstances. And less we forget, it boils down to this:

"Make no mistake, Torres wanted that sale too and there was only one way to make it happen. He handed in a transfer request."

completely agree.

As shanks once said 'we wants players who will fight when there's nothing to fight for.'  Fernando, evidently, isn't one of those players.     

[helmboy_nige]

Superb article.

All stories like this end up with black and white sides.  One is the evil bad guy and the other is whiter than white.  Of course it was never that simple and I've said before that I don't blame Torres for his decision.  The optimism around Kennys return may be grand but it still comes with the proviso that it will take time to rebuild.

Torres made a decision and I respect him for that.  The "big club" stuff is just media hype and I ignore it.  Good luck to the lad.  From our side, we have (or at least our owners have) played a blinder.  Who'd have thought that the owners of the club could sell our highest value player and come out of it smelling of roses?

[norfolkandchance]

Thought it deserved a thread of its own.  I await the kneejerk namecalling, but Sid Lowe is probably the best writer on Spanish football so this is likely to be pretty well researched and if you are interested in the real reasons that a dream went sour then it is worth reading.

And before you all ask, I do think, and hope, that he will soon realise that he has made a huge mistake and that he should have waited...  but then if some shortarse prick hadn't appointed Roy Dumblewit in the summer then perhaps that would not have been necessary.

and it was a good article

[robgomm]

Anyone seen this on the plastics Forum

http://shed.chelseafc.com/theshed/chat/posts/thread.shtml?808716

Even mentions about posting it on here

OMG

I love this post so much. Let's pick through the gems:

Ritual, as we know, is a key element to religious behaviour.

He's going to compare us to a religion and, moreoever, he's going to make a detailed analaysis of religion in the process. I can't wait.

"You'll Never Walk Alone" is an incredible example of this. It is sung with religious fervour and is about surrendering individuality for the group.

Ahhhhh.

Repetition is, of course, a central factor to the belief system and that is why every Liverpool follower (I choose this word above supporter), is primed to say exactly the same as every other Liverpool follower. There can be no deviation from the true path. Have you ever met a Liverpool follower who would dare to say that YNWA is a dreadful chant or that talking about "history" is a load of bunkum? This kind of deviation is not allowed and if someone dared to say such a thing then the simple answer would be that he is not a true follower because a true follower would not say such a thing.

AHHHHHH. I'm in hysterics at this point I've gotta be honest.

History. What is this fascination with history? Football is really only about the present and memory. It is not about history

No kidding, Chelsea fan.

As an aside, an interesting comparison can be made between Liverpool and Everton and one that a football anthropologist would do well to study and report on in detail. The followers / supporters of these clubs display very different traits even though they may come from the same families, live in the same streets, go to the same schools. Everton play the theme tune from Z Cars when the team runs out and talk about the School of Science. They support their club and leave it at that.

If there are any Everton fans browsing, I'm so sorry for you here. So sorry. You just don't care as much as we do, apparently.

Fernando Torres was loved at Liverpool. He had a special status like a saint or a leader. And he became an apostate. In religious terms, this is as bad as it gets. No matter how big or how powerful a religion is, the "church" is rocked to its foundations when someone chooses to leave or step outside the line. In Islam, apostates are killed.

WE ARE GOING TO KILL HIM?

And just like the Catholic Church has a history of murder, rape and massacre from the Crusades to the Inquisition, this history is irrelevant. Only good history is history. And no other football club has blood on its hands like Liverpool but this is also ignored in its history. Just like a religion, it creates myth and worries not a jot about the truth.

Ooooh boy. I'd be angry if I wasn't laughing so much. Which I am.

That's my day made, I'm off for a pot noodle and wank.

[Jason_King]

All down to the American fucktards we had in charge and the final nail in the coffin being that senile, face rubbing owl.

Club going to shit in front of his eyes and then finding himself playing ale house football, getting buffeted by wind, rain, snow and a rabble of center halfs. All this on his own while his manager had all his mates fucked off to the other end of the pitch 50 yards away, huddling up and keeping warm.

[coct3au]

He never said 'big club', he said top level, which means exactly what you said about team being more competitive imo. I don't know why everyone is misquoting that interview.

He said "top club".

"The target for every footballer is to play at one of the top level clubs in the world, and I can do that now, so I am very very happy." - source

So he did say "top level club", not "top club" or "big club". Unless you're talking about a different quote, in which case - URL?

If your definition of "the top level", in terms of club football, is playing in the European Champions League, then couldn't this therefore just be seen as a somewhat tactlessly-conveyed statement of unfortunate fact, rather than a deliberate slight against LFC?

[gatcliffe]

No mention of how Torres never thanked the Liverpool fans or club for the last fews years (which is one of my biggest gripes about him going). In my eyes he wasn't man enough to say I want a move, I'm going and I'm walking out the front door with my head held high with thanks for all the fans support over the last few years. Instead he slithered his way out the back door effectively with not a thought for the fans or mention of them at all. The first we hear him speak was after he signed for the Chelsea, and he is rubbing salt in the owounds by making statements like Chelsea are a bigger club. Is he that daft to realise that wording what ever he was trying to get across that way was going to peev off the fans who spend the last few years idolising him? I think not!

No matter what happened behind closed doors with him and the club (broken promises etc), he should have had more respect and a word for us the fans. He didn't so he will deservedly be the villan. Take Alonso's departure from us. Things happened behind the scenes and his relationship with the club (Rafa looking to ship him to make way for Barry when Xabi didnt want to leave), but he still held his head up when he got his move and acted professionally and made sure he thanked the fans. Thats why we still love him and wish him well. He is still a fan and is welcome back here to watch (or play ;-)  ) anytime, which he does do. Can't see Torres being afforded the same hospitality.

Agree with you thank you means a lot

[the jesus]

To be honest are people even arguing about his reasons for leaving? we all know Liverpool aren't in a position to provide him with the trophies he wanted so it's understandable he wanted to leave.

It's not understandable why he had to leave the way he did (in a completely twattish manner), and Lowe doesn't exactly do a great job of listing out why it had to be that way.

Read the article and there is certainly nothing to have a go at Sid Lowe about, clearly there are two sides to every story. Its just that Torres's side at its best is still not that pretty.

Anyway the quote from Ambrosia says all that needs to be said on the matter.

[Greyfox]

Too much hand wringing now for me this.....

Mr Towers has now moved on...we have acquired two extremely good/class players in his stead. ...

WE now appear to have more of a threat up front..on all fronts, in the air with Carroll, with pace and guile from Luis, and now from a midfield who can put the ball up to the front man (AC) and expect it to stick there while they take the return pass and get beyond the front man...a rejuvenated force of Gerrard, Miereles and Lucas.....instead of having to lay it into the path of Towers to run on to and do his stuff from there....on his own

The whys and wherefores of this where sown in another era, the only thing H&G did of any benefit to this club was get him in....and they lied to him, about further investment,  like they lied to us. The present leadership acted in the only way available to them...maximising a price for an asset somebody else wanted...and have reinvested the funds into two extremely good players.

Well played FSG, and this could be the revamp that this club has needed both in terms of instead of the paranoia of "Towers is going...Towers is staying" played out over the last two years....now resolved
And a return to the attack from "Land, Sea and Air" approach of Liverpool of the 80s scoring from good strikers/good midfielders/and occasionally defenders....

We are not a one, or a two man team anymore....we are now a team of eleven PLUS subs...note the celebration after Raul's goal against Stoke...none of the "he isn't talking to him/he isn't letting on to him" bitchiness of the primadonna.....The team is back.

[DonkeyWan]

I think the key point here is that the Torres Transfer is not about Torres or about FSG, its about the repercussions form the previous regime. We had two years of money being siphoned out of the club in the form of player sales. They also brought in a mediocre manager to  facilitate this process. The result has been players with ambition being forced to leave the club to find success before its too late. This transfer window has been about stopping the rot, backing the current manager  and keeping those who are willing to stay. Personally, rather than get upset about Torres I am pleased that he has gone for a good amount and gave us so many good years service. that's what I will remember.

The article itself is ok, but there are some inconsistencies; the point about Man City discouraging Chelsea from an earlier bid makes no sense, or the idea that Torres would have perceived the Suarez deal as  Liverpool having already spent the money - The deal was already in progress for a number of weeks now and the haste with which the Andy Carroll deal went through would have indicated how panic stricken the club were by developments. Also, I cannot see a player being so 'hurt' by turning on Sky news to see some grinning idiot mugging at the camera before showing a short clip of some young idiots burning a shirt. I don't believe it has the power of imagery that Lowe suggests, rather its an attempt to reinforce media and public perceptions about Liverpool/football fans that only UK fans will be influenced by.

[Zack]

A well written piece like a lot of people already stated. Torres has left Liverpool for a "big" club in his opinion and he is entitled to have his opinion, however if he was afraid that he would be stuck at a club that was going nowhere and that no one would want him in the summer that just tells us more of how insecure he is about himself then anything. Fact he scored 24 goals in the prem the first year and "only" 14 when we almost won in 08/09 at the moment he has 9 goals and looked like he was starting to score again. The only thing that would have "ended" his chances of leaving this summer would be a season ending injury.

Torres should have know how a exit 3 days before the transfer window would make him look, the only way he would have left with his head up high was for the new owners to have pushed him out like the thing with Andy Carroll yet he did it anyway. Torres probably liked the fans but nothing more then that, he knew what to say and how to act to get the BEST backing up from the fans possible for any player. But for him this is a job he left his team in Madrid to win trophies and didn't get any here, so I wish him luck in the future (not at Chelsea though) and hope he will realize one day that he left to early and in the wrong way.

   

[Discipline]

By Jupiter's cock, do we need 900 threads for a player who no longer plays for us?

Spartacus is awesome.

[harleydanger]

By Jupiter's cock, do we need 900 threads for a player who no longer plays for us?

[Bastion Of Invincibility]

To tell you the truth, I can't even be arsed to read the article.

There are way too many of these 'poor, poor Nando' stories going around just to try and justify his betrayal towards the club and supporters.

To tell you the truth, I get a feeling his PR representatives, and more so him, are mega pissed off.  They thought we'd be totally up in arms with the club and owners after selling the legend that is Nando, one of our apparent prized assets.  After the initial shock and anger of him handing in that transfer request, most of the supporters have already got over it.

I get the impression, that Kenny as good as told him to fuck off if he couldn't commit himself, and owners saw fit to back the boss by handing over the cash to make our record purchase.  The fact we've brought in two hungry young players, and dispensed with the sulk that was Nando, I'm more than happy with that.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adored Nando, especially over the first two seasons, but he'd got to the stage where his demeanour on the pitch was becoming nothing short of a joke.  The desire was visibly draining from him.  He'd lost a lot of his pace, and become a right moody tart. 

I was sick of making excuses for him.  He was one hell of a tease too.  Every now and again, he'd turn it on, and you'd think he was back to his best.  Then next game, sulky bastard. 

I guess we'll find out soon enough if he was being a real fraud or not.  If he starts to turn it on for them, it will be truly hurtful to witness.

That's a fantastic post.

[steveeastend]

I cannot see anything wrong with the article...

Bottom line is though.. this is basically a article about our past and it´s gone. We are back, in summer at the very latest.

[Timbo's Goals]

Because it is such a well written piece I am concerned that this may come to be regarded in the fullness of time as the definitive article on the subject when it is clearly no such thing. It is actually fundamentally unbalanced since fails totally to convey the real crux of our anger which surely is not so much that Torres has elected to leave for chelsea - however unpalatable that might be - but that for a long period Torres cheated the club and us by drawing his salary under false pretences. Rather than at least trying to help remedy the malaise that gripped the club Torres actually became its principal symptom.

[slimbo]

Time was running away from him. He could not see how he would win anything with Liverpool.

Torres could see no reason to stay and no one was trying to convince him to do so.  His perspective became strikingly short-term, there was no patience: what, he asked, am I going to be doing for the rest of this season? Fighting off relegation? That's not what I signed up for.


If he turned it down, he feared being trapped,  the choice was obvious -- if shortsighted.

They forced him to make the next, potentially damaging move. That, certainly, was Torres' perception.

Luis Suárez's arrival was viewed from the outside as a gesture -- a symbol of the club's ambition. It was viewed by Torres merely as confirmation that they club were already counting on the money from his sale.

The guy seriously sounds like he's in depression. Glass half empty no matter which way he looks.
I think he had agents in his ear who were fueling his fears.

Reckon he'll look back on this down the track with regret.

[aditya0912]

Sid Lowe's personnal view of the saga from his Twitter
"As I say, I think mistakes were made, a bit impatient, and much of it badly handled. But fear, annoyance, desperation, sadness all genuine"

[Sandblast]

Whilst Torres was wisked down to Abramovich towers the other night the guy i feel sorry for is the one tasked with moving his furniture - players in the premiership, they have it all..!!

[itsgunnabebarnes!]

On a footballing side im glad he is gone. I always thought he would have a short career, he is completely reliant on pace, which appears to be deserting him now. Cant for the life of me see how he could do better at the rentboys than he did here.

[Timbo's Goals]

The guy seriously sounds like he's in depression. Glass half empty no matter which way he looks.
I think he had agents in his ear who were fueling his fears.Reckon he'll look back on this down the track with regret.

I tend to agree and I posted something similar in another thread. He felt he was the sole victim and the notion was so firmly lodged - and presumably nurtured by his advisors - that he really lost any proper perspective. Does seem very much as if the guy was/is in a state of depression. God knows how it will pan out from here on in, though after Sunday is gone I'm just not concerned. Which is sad.

[carling]

Just read the article ... can someone tell me how Lowe seems to know exactly what Torres was thinking during his whole time at Liverpool.

If he's got inside info from the Torres camp then fair enough, if not then this is a terrible, terrible piece of journalism.

[Sangria]

I cannot see anything wrong with the article...

Bottom line is though.. this is basically a article about our past and it´s gone. We are back, in summer at the very latest.

Everyone starts on 0 points next season, and I think the team is better off replacing Torres with 2 players who are a better team fit. That's why, the initial shock apart, I'm not upset at his departure, nor do I greatly care what he or anyone says about his exit. I wouldn't mind some revelations about the goings on at the club during the Hodgson regin, but that's because I'd like to know just how shit he and Purslow were, and also because it would serve as a precautionary lesson on how not to run the club. But Torres himself, I care little about. I didn't mind reading about FSG's political manoeuvrings though, as it shows the owners are the canny type I'd like them to be.

[rickythered]

By Jupiter's cock, do we need 900 threads for a player who no longer plays for us?

This.

[Grobbelrevell]

I don't understand this.

He wants investment, then when we get it he is convinced it is being funded by his sale.

Makes no sense.

That was my reaction from the first moment that I heard about the transfer request. Utter confusion. In my own (admittedly limited) mind it made absolutely no sense.

Here was a man who had made no secret of his respect for the club and his desire to succeed with it. Above loyalty and principles though, came his desire to succeed in his career (and rightly so you might say). To see his talent rewarded with medals. In that veign he had been outspoken for over a year by this point in demanding investment in the playing staff as a signal that the club was progressing towards his own (and ultimately the clubs) ambitions. For close to two years he waited, seemingly patiently waiting for those signs. No doubt he grew frustrated, as we all did. No doubt there was anger. Hell, if he wasn't angry at the way Hicks and Gillett were running the club then it would have been more telling about his attitude to the club than any of the comments that we have heard recently.

But then that all changed. Hicks and Gillett were forced out and replaced by new owners. Positive owners. The debt was cleared and funds declared to be in place. January was to be the very first opportunity for the new owners to back up those declarations, so surely Torres would give them that opportunity at the very least? Yes there was a setback and arguably an ill informed decision to allow Roy Hodgson more time, but ultimately the decision was made to replace him with Kenny. Instantly the positivity that Torres had been demanding returned, along with a playing style befitting a club of our stature - and the stature that he believes he should be associated with. In addition came the investment that was promised and that he had sought. Luis Suarez was signed for a club record fee - eclipsing Torres himself from that mantle. And yet it was immediately following this, the very chain of events that Torres had been outwardly seeking for 18 months or more, that he decided to about turn and demand a move. Apparantly it was not enough.

His mind, it would seem, was made up long before, which inevitably meant that the newfound positivity and progress being made at the club was too little, too late.

The thing that the article seems to omit though, is the fact that the majority of the anger surrounding Torres is not as a result of the departure itself (which was expected by the majority as inevitable at some stage) but the fact that he has appeared willing to stumble through the last 18 months or so with a distinct lack of desire and a constant scowl at the feeling that the club was not good enough for him. And this, despite his supposed love for the club and its supporters. The same supporters that made excuses for him week after week and contuinued to bounce in the stands to his name. That is why there is anger. And rightly so.

[walshys_mullet]

We arnt currently a big club in peoples eyes because of the likes of Torres.

[lionel_messias]

Sid Lowe is a really good writer, and he's good on the radio too..

BUT fuck's sake......a player has left the club; we have plenty of good players of our own to talk about!! Bandwidth waste? I'd say so!

[slimbo]

We arnt currently a big club in peoples eyes because of the likes of Torres.

But we will be... 2 more summers I reckon and then BAM!

[Ziggy09]

Fernando Torres....from Top of the Kop to being just another tool in the Shed!

His loss.

[main-stand-molby]

I tend to agree and I posted something similar in another thread. He felt he was the sole victim and the notion was so firmly lodged - and presumably nurtured by his advisors - that he really lost any proper perspective. Does seem very much as if the guy was/is in a state of depression. God knows how it will pan out from here on in, though after Sunday is gone I'm just not concerned. Which is sad.

By all accounts he's a quiet guy who keeps himself to himself.
He left his boyhood team to win things.  He thought he had landed on his feet with us, a team with a chance of winning things, and the idolation, fanaticism, and similar values to his boyhood club.  A perfect combination.  I dont think he was conning us one bit.

H&G, and Purslow ruined that.

I dont really have a big problem with him wanting out.  I can understand it, as thats the whole point he joined us in the first place.

It explains his performances too.  Nothing going right for him etc etc.  Dont mistake this for approval of his performances, which were a combination of things, but no doubt now that it affected him.  The perfect storm I suppose, injury, lack of fitness, disappointment.

I just feel, and hope i suppose, that in 5 years time he looks back (regardless of where we are and where Chelsea are), and he thinks fck... what did I leave behind.  A few shiney pieces of silver, was it worth it for what he gave up with Atletic and Liverpool.

But make no mistake, I think after this season he'll be looking back up at us again (as Sid puts it in his article). 
We are on the rise with or without him, and it could well be without him was for the best. 

[Sangria]

Because it is such a well written piece I am concerned that this may come to be regarded in the fullness of time as the definitive article on the subject when it is clearly no such thing. It is actually fundamentally unbalanced since fails totally to convey the real crux of our anger which surely is not so much that Torres has elected to leave for chelsea - however unpalatable that might be - but that for a long period Torres cheated the club and us by drawing his salary under false pretences. Rather than at least trying to help remedy the malaise that gripped the club Torres actually became its principal symptom.

Given his usual writing area, Lowe usually writes from the perspective of the Spanish player/manager, and I wouldn't be surprised if he has insider info from them. When virtually everyone else was laying into Benitez, he was one of the few to try and explain things from Benitez's perspective. The article isn't meant to be balanced, but is meant to explain things in the context of the Spanish player.