Author Topic: Why we should keep Lucas?  (Read 267047 times)

Offline Mad Men

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #560 on: January 5, 2011, 11:45:02 pm »
If supporters keep kicking off at him on twitter like they do and on here like they do and he still gets idiots in the ground doing the same.
He might not.

If the prospects are as grim as they are currently.
He might not.

If someone comes in for him and offers him a comfortable environment and opportunity to play for a club and manager with ambition.
Could you blame him for not?



To be fair to the lad, he has had some nasty comments made against him on twitter...and I mean horrible.

Being the man he is, he has laughed it off and carried on which is to his credit.

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Offline 1021

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #561 on: January 5, 2011, 11:45:27 pm »
Forget comfortable. I could see Inter or Ac Milan coming in for him. He would suit Ac Milan really well at the moment. Half their midfield are over 80.

I think he'd be fantastic in Italy.
I was referring to the atmosphere.
He is still scapegoated.
I got the Lucas thing wrong. Will be right on Henderson though. Play him RM, play him CM - Not good enough and never will be.

Offline davidg

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #562 on: January 5, 2011, 11:45:44 pm »
Id like to see Gerrard play CM with Raul for a few games, see how that partnership develops.

Gerrard's inability to play that role was there for all to see tonight. His indiscipline was absolutely staggering. Lucas was covering the whole Midfield all night, felt sorry for him.
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Offline Not funny reecehenebry

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #563 on: January 5, 2011, 11:45:50 pm »
Fordy, I've knocked Lucas plenty of times but I don't think tonight is the night that anybody can say he was poor simply based on the score and the team's performance.  He had no support in midfield at all.  Roy is playing 2 up front, Gerrard cannot play CM to support a holding midfielder, Cole is positionally useless and Maxi bless him is unlikely to make a tackle to get his shorts dirty.  Lucas in this game is outnumbered by the Blackburn midfield.  Can't really say this is his fault whatever his shortcomings may or may not be.  In my view this is yet another example of Uncle Roy and his 35 years of experience counting for nothing because somehow he can't shape his team to play away from home to win games.
Maxi has always played a pressing game. Asking to tackle like an English player doesn't work. He presses space and players really well.
Why are you looking past this season?

Offline Mad Men

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #564 on: January 5, 2011, 11:46:02 pm »
Tactics were yet again wrong tonight..as they were against Wolves..and Blackpool, Birmingham, Man U, etc, etc etc.....

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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #565 on: January 5, 2011, 11:46:14 pm »
Id like to see Gerrard play CM with Raul for a few games, see how that partnership develops.
Jesus fucking wept. Gerrard tonight was the absolute antithesis of a CM, and you want to drop the boy who had to play there on his own? Incredible.

Offline Not funny reecehenebry

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #566 on: January 5, 2011, 11:46:45 pm »
I think he'd be fantastic in Italy.
I was referring to the atmosphere.
He is still scapegoated.
I got that. Just didn't want the guy to be labelled 'comfortable' for moving is all.
Why are you looking past this season?

Offline Fordy

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #567 on: January 5, 2011, 11:47:08 pm »
To be honest mate, you do consistently ignore the elephant in the room that is Steven Gerrard's inability to play as an orthodox CM. Lucas was doing two men's work today. Lucas looks far better when playing with Raul, it's no coincidence. It's a lack of positional discipline from Gerrard that was the issue today.

You know what mate I agree with you on this but Gerrard needs to play. Roy as got it wrong for me. Kuyt needs to partner Torres, Gerrard on the Right, Lucas and Raul in the Centre. Yes I know he couldnt do that tonight as Raul.

It does seem that when Lucas and Gerrard are paired together. Lucas cant cope with Gerrard bombing on. It gets to me though mate as I do believe the lad can be top draw but he has to stop being the teacher's pet and play his own game. Seriously he should be thinking fuck Gerrard I will bomb forward and let him think about sitting.

I have said it a million time's Lucas should be our Barry or Fletcher. He has qualities that are better than theirs but you have to play your own game but like I say its like he is learning about it.

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #568 on: January 5, 2011, 11:47:13 pm »
not sure how you can blame him today

and Fordy, passing sideways? did you watch the game? or this just another uneducated preconcieved notion, the lad played plenty of accurate and fast passes forward, it's just a shame Nando, Cole and Dirk have a dogshit touch at the moment or maybe all the time in Dirk's case. Even worse is your Mr Super Captain, who contrived to give away the ball everytime he got anywhere in the opposition half.
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Offline Not funny reecehenebry

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #569 on: January 5, 2011, 11:47:47 pm »
Gerrard's inability to play that role was there for all to see tonight. His indiscipline was absolutely staggering. Lucas was covering the whole Midfield all night, felt sorry for him.
His indiscipline is also his greatness. Just put him somewhere he can explode that doesn't kill our own.
Why are you looking past this season?

Offline Fordy

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #570 on: January 5, 2011, 11:49:17 pm »
You're missing the real problem, will Lucas sign a new contract?

I dont know. I hope he does though. I want him to stay.

Offline vader90

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #571 on: January 5, 2011, 11:49:18 pm »
His indiscipline is also his greatness. Just put him somewhere he can explode that doesn't kill our own.

Which is why I say Johnson - Gerrard on the right and let the others think there are only 9 on the field. ;D
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Offline smig

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #572 on: January 5, 2011, 11:49:59 pm »
Gerrard's inability to play that role was there for all to see tonight. His indiscipline was absolutely staggering. Lucas was covering the whole Midfield all night, felt sorry for him.
Oh do me a favour lad, if it wasn't for Steven Gerrard that side would be fighting a fucking relegation battle this season. I feel sorry for Gerrard, he's surrounded by cowards. Gerrard's not our problem, far from it.
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Offline leivapool

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #573 on: January 5, 2011, 11:50:01 pm »
If supporters keep kicking off at him on twitter like they do and on here like they do and he still gets idiots in the ground doing the same.
He might not.

If the prospects are as grim as they are currently.
He might not.

If someone comes in for him and offers him a comfortable environment and opportunity to play for a club and manager with ambition.
Could you blame him for not?

Good points, very well made.  I hope to God you are not proved correct.  Lucas would do really well in any of the Champions League teams around Europe.  Positive note, he does like Liverpool, does a great Scouse accent and his wife  is happy to have their son born here in a couple of months.  Hope I'm not clutching at straws....
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


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Offline RedRaj

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #574 on: January 5, 2011, 11:50:04 pm »
Maxi has always played a pressing game. Asking to tackle like an English player doesn't work. He presses space and players really well.

We don't press under Roy though do we?  I'm not trying to be shitty.  Just with Roy's tactics and way of playing, Maxi isn't going to give Lucas much support in trying to dominate or keep up with the opposition midfield.

Offline vader90

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #575 on: January 5, 2011, 11:51:58 pm »
Oh do me a favour lad, if it wasn't for Steven Gerrard that side would be fighting a fucking relegation battle this season. I feel sorry for Gerrard, he's surrounded by cowards. Gerrard's not our problem, far from it.

Cowards? Don't you think you are stretching it a bit there? Infact a lot?
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Offline Redeye

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #576 on: January 5, 2011, 11:53:23 pm »
Lucas has improved so much over the last two seasons that he actually has moved from a liability to a position where he has become one of our better and more consistent performers. In addition to that he never shirks a tackle and invariably gives 100% for the cause. I've been overcritical of him in the past but I'll gladly admit to being wrong. I'd like to see him being given the chance to develop a partnership with Meireles in central midfield to allow Stevie to push up supporting Torres.
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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #577 on: January 5, 2011, 11:54:20 pm »
His indiscipline is also his greatness. Just put him somewhere he can explode that doesn't kill our own.

Agree but sometimes SG does have a great game in midfield and runs the show.

Kuyt, Maxi and especially Cole do not track back enough - that's not their game and so we need two DM.
Last year people moaned about it but away from home we need to tighten up in midfield. If we are running riot then take one of them off but don't start off with Lucas trying to keep his finger in the Dyke (sorry that sounds rude misses).
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #578 on: January 5, 2011, 11:55:09 pm »
Oh do me a favour lad, if it wasn't for Steven Gerrard that side would be fighting a fucking relegation battle this season. I feel sorry for Gerrard, he's surrounded by cowards. Gerrard's not our problem, far from it.
You've completely missed the point. By a mile, too. Of course Gerrard isn't our problem. But he is playing in the wrong position. Which creates a problem.

Offline simesy

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #579 on: January 5, 2011, 11:55:11 pm »
Id like to see Gerrard play CM with Raul for a few games, see how that partnership develops.

The other issue with Gerrard is that he has a lot more of the pitch to cover than Lucas, he supports the attack and defence, and when you play with such a great distance between the strikers and the defenders, the distance Gerrard has to cover is massive.
I'm sorry but thats not true.His last few games in cm has shown he cant do both.He is world class going forward but jogs back every time he/we lose the ball.He isn't disciplined enough.Watch the bolton match again, when our attack broke down he jogged back.
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Offline RedRaj

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #580 on: January 5, 2011, 11:55:31 pm »
Cowards? Don't you think you are stretching it a bit there? Infact a lot?

Is it?  Hasn't been much fight worthy of comment this season.  He may have been crap today but was still trying to drag us from the brink (and almost did).  I don't think Lucas is a coward, not by any means.  But some others in that team at the moment don't look like they want it. 

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #581 on: January 5, 2011, 11:55:45 pm »
Oh do me a favour lad, if it wasn't for Steven Gerrard that side would be fighting a fucking relegation battle this season. I feel sorry for Gerrard, he's surrounded by cowards. Gerrard's not our problem, far from it.

No, but if Roy is then you can be sure that Stevie had a hand in it.

Offline smig

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #582 on: January 5, 2011, 11:56:56 pm »
Cowards? Don't you think you are stretching it a bit there? Infact a lot?
Not at all mate, I've watched the same players surrender time and time again away from home all season, there's hardly a scrap of fight between them.
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Offline Fordy

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #583 on: January 5, 2011, 11:58:28 pm »
Agree but sometimes SG does have a great game in midfield and runs the show.

Kuyt, Maxi and especially Cole do not track back enough - that's not their game and so we need two DM.
Last year people moaned about it but away from home we need to tighten up in midfield. If we are running riot then take one of them off but don't start off with Lucas trying to keep his finger in the Dyke (sorry that sounds rude misses).

4-4-2 can work well for us but you have to have pace and footballing brains in the team.

Agger needs to be number CB. Fabio has to be LB. In Midfield - Gerrard - Lucas & Raul - Cole with Torres and Kuyt(for now) up top.

Offline jckliew

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #584 on: January 5, 2011, 11:59:45 pm »
4-4-2 can work well for us but you have to have pace and footballing brains in the team.


Thats pretty much lacking for the past few years........PACE
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Offline Mad Men

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #585 on: January 6, 2011, 12:00:51 am »
3 midfielders vs 1...gee..let's take bets who win's over 90 minutes.

Lucas was pretty much on his own for 90 minutes today in the center of the park.

Great tactics.
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Offline Jules Winnfield

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #586 on: January 6, 2011, 12:00:53 am »

how anyine can criticise Lucas in a flat 4 midfield with Maxi (pressing type, wide attacker) Joe "Englands finest" Cole (lazy jumpers for goalposts type 3 in 1 genius) and Gerrard (best player at the club who hasnt played as part of this team in reality for 18 months).

If two/three players are playing triangles around you and no one else is covering the space or men you will look lost/behind the pace/out of depth. One player cannot fight a tide like that.

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Offline ynwabuckeye

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #587 on: January 6, 2011, 12:00:57 am »
Agree but sometimes SG does have a great game in midfield and runs the show.

Kuyt, Maxi and especially Cole do not track back enough - that's not their game and so we need two DM.
Last year people moaned about it but away from home we need to tighten up in midfield. If we are running riot then take one of them off but don't start off with Lucas trying to keep his finger in the Dyke (sorry that sounds rude misses).

^^This. Throw in Johnson bombing forward and giving fuck all about defending combined with 3 defenders moving the speed of smell forced to sit deep and you have a pocket roughly the size of Ireland left for Lucas to cover. And people wonder why he doesn't get forward more.

Offline RedRaj

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #588 on: January 6, 2011, 12:02:17 am »
Thats pretty much lacking for the past few years........PACE

Defo... Not just lack of pace in the team but for two seasons we have moved the ball around so slowly when attacking.  Slower than almost any other team in the Premier League.  I was watching today how easy it was for Blackburn to organise themselves when we attacked- they had so much time.

Offline new-red

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #589 on: January 6, 2011, 12:02:32 am »
Right. I do feel sorry for him that he has Strkel and The Greek behind him how cant pass for the ball out but for me that more that highlights how average the player his. He collects the balls and then like the two centre backs doesnt know what to do with it so it goes side ways most of the time. His range of passes is average.

The thing that gets me with him is his pace(none) and its like he is still learning the game and doesnt know when to go forward or stay back.

They're miles better CM players out there and if you really want Liverpool to improve then that's a position we can improve on for sure.

Oh remember we have been poor for 2 years now so being the best player is nothing to write home about.

Still sounding ridiculous?

Yea and the last two fucking years Lucas has been relied on far too much without comparable support from his teammates.

Also, you can't state opinion as fact. Especially when its obviously not true but a very convenient 4 year long talking point that has no significance of any kind.

IMO Alonso's passing range made our players lazy because he would find them wherever they were. After he left it was like the players had forgotten how to move off the ball. We are better now though because of players like maxi and raul who play that way naturally and have improved our fluidity but we still don't move very well as a team.

And this contrived bullshit that Lucas doesn't know when to get forward or stay back is just wrong. His attacking and defensive movements are all dependent on how Gerrard is approaching the attack. With Raul they moved forward together in synchronicity. One went, one stayed or both moved forward in unison supporting the play while not leaving themselves vulnerable. But today Lucas had to cover counters as well as try to support the attack which is fucking impossible with gerrard as a CM partner.

Lucas is one of the best in the team at positional awareness. You never see him make last ditch diving tackles like masch or gerrard because....HE DOESN'T HAVE TO! He is smarter than either of them and therefore doesn't have to make desperation tackles that drew many yellow cards for Masch. Another player who didn't slide tackle a lot was alonso, for the same fucking reason.

Lucas is our best CM at the moment. Yea, I said it. Ideally, it would be Gerrard but he doesn't have the head for it.

The closest you came to the truth was about his pace. Lucas is obviously not fast but he also isn't slow. Hes pretty much average in that department which one again means fuck all. Xavi isn't that fast either but why the fuck do you need to be when you can outhink your opposition.

Lucas has improved every year and will continue to do so under the right direction. His character and determination will see him reach his full potential regardless of manager. However, I think with a more tactically astute manager his ceiling is higher than say with Roy hodgson.

But anyways. please trot out more useless cliches, it only serves to expose your cluelessness.



PS. Fordy, please show me one top side in Europe that uses a traditional 442? At the most you will find 4411, and more likely its 433 or 4231 because they produce the most balanced sides in terms of attack and defense while also providing more help for the midfield in moving the attack forward. I stil cannot believe that Hodgson persisted with having Ngog nd Torres in a flat 2. Some one really needed to link up the play between midfield and attack.

442 is an outdated, easily exploited formation which is why it has been left behind. 442 is completely wrong for our team as the 442 roy likes to play needs natural wingers who will provide natural width as well as a little bit of pace which we clearly don't have on the flanks whcih is why maxi should be allowed to cut in so the fb can overlap and stretch the defense. We have fbs for that system but Roy, much like the majority of english fans think 442 is the way to go which literally attacks GJ where he is weakest and nullifies his impact in the attack.

Im tired of this.

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« Last Edit: January 6, 2011, 12:11:56 am by new-red »
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Offline Ycuzz

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #590 on: January 6, 2011, 12:02:41 am »
Gerrard's not our problem, far from it.

In central midfield it is.
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Offline vader90

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #591 on: January 6, 2011, 12:03:22 am »
Not at all mate, I've watched the same players surrender time and time again away from home all season, there's hardly a scrap of fight between them.

And isn't it a coincidence that you have a certain manager with a certain away record at the helm?

All I can say is this team is much more better than what they are currently reflecting themselves off to be. I just think that they do their best at home FOR the fans and calling them cowards is not the right word. Just my two cents.
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Offline Visigoth33

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #592 on: January 6, 2011, 12:03:33 am »
3 midfielders vs 1...gee..let's take bets who win's over 90 minutes.

Lucas was pretty much on his own for 90 minutes today in the center of the park.

Great tactics.
and add to that,he had to cover konchesky & johnson along the way.

Offline vader90

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #593 on: January 6, 2011, 12:05:04 am »
Thats pretty much lacking for the past few years........PACE

FEW? I think its been missing for much more than a few years. We lost pace when we lost our wings. :(
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Offline davidg

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #594 on: January 6, 2011, 12:05:15 am »
Oh do me a favour lad, if it wasn't for Steven Gerrard that side would be fighting a fucking relegation battle this season. I feel sorry for Gerrard, he's surrounded by cowards. Gerrard's not our problem, far from it.

Fuck are you on about? Where have I said sg is the proble? he's our best player, but too indisciplined to play centre mid and always has been.
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Offline Not funny reecehenebry

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #595 on: January 6, 2011, 12:06:22 am »
Fuck are you on about? Where have I said sg is the proble? he's our best player, but too indisciplined to play centre mid and always has been.
Reina is our current best player. He likes to play in the midfield too .Lets give him a go there. He likes it there.
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Offline Mr_Morosoph

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #596 on: January 6, 2011, 12:08:14 am »
We need to knock this 4-4-2 on the head. It doesn't suit our players.
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Offline mulhergremista

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #597 on: January 6, 2011, 12:08:24 am »
Gerrard's inability to play that role was there for all to see tonight. His indiscipline was absolutely staggering. Lucas was covering the whole Midfield all night, felt sorry for him.
His indiscipline?

Who do you think can discipline him? Roy? 

 Anyone can answer my question  about Meireles, How grave is his injury.   
And Lucas got  another yellow >:( (not at him)

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #598 on: January 6, 2011, 12:11:54 am »
Lucas needs to man up a bit. And I dont mean with the opposition - he's capable of that.

He needs to start dishing out some advice. firstly to Captain fantastic, that if he wants to play in CM then he has to play as a a partnership. Not just doing what the pundits love to see and fuck everything else.

There was a bit tonight where Lucas had 3 Blackburn midfielders breaking out on him across the width of the centre circle, and they knocked it past him and left him running in their wake to catch them. "Fuckin hell, lucas lets them waltz past him again". Captain Fantastic and Dirk are still ambling back when the ball goes out for a throw.

I wanna see Lucas scream at Gerrard and actually make a point for everyone to see, pointing at him and pointing to where 3 players where, and pointing to himself and asking how the fuck is he expected to do this. Someone needs to have the balls to tell SG that if he wants to play CM then he has to play CM, not SG midfield. Hodgson aint gonna do it.

Man up Lucas. Dont be afraid of everyone elses reputations. You have nothing to fear from their performances so far this season.
All the badge kissing in the world don't make up for the fact that they are, frankly, not Liverpool Football Club. It's not their fault. Its just how it is.

Offline 1021

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Re: Why we should keep Lucas?
« Reply #599 on: January 6, 2011, 12:12:50 am »
No one is blaming or having a go at Gerrard.
It is just clear that he is not disciplined enough to play in the CM and when he does so he is disturbing the balance of the side and leaving us exposed at the back. His best position is in behind the striker or if Roy sticks around out on the right of a 442.

It is wrong that his name puts him in the CM. It might be what he wants.
But it brings out neither the best in him or the players we have at our disposal.

I wanna see Lucas scream at Gerrard and actually make a point for everyone to see, pointing at him and pointing to where 3 players where, and pointing to himself and asking how the fuck is he expected to do this. Someone needs to have the balls to tell SG that if he wants to play CM then he has to play CM, not SG midfield. Hodgson aint gonna do it.

Man up Lucas. Dont be afraid of everyone elses reputations. You have nothing to fear from their performances so far this season.

Couldn't agree more.
« Last Edit: January 6, 2011, 12:14:47 am by 1021 »
I got the Lucas thing wrong. Will be right on Henderson though. Play him RM, play him CM - Not good enough and never will be.