Topic: Fury as the hostages sell stories

[BIGdavalad]

September, 1980. Iraq invades Iran. The beginning of the Iraq-Iran war. [8] ...

Selling arms before the war might have counted as fair trade in the disgusting arms race but once Iraq crossed into Iran it was the USA that armed it with everything it asked for, from weapons to intelligence sometimes using Saudi Arabia as a cover sometimes Kuwait, both gave billions of dollars to Iraq to " put and end to the Persians" In a bizarre  rebuff to Saddam, King Fahd detailed the cost to Saudi for backing him against Iran even down to the last 80 cents. The figure was $25,734,469,885- 80cents nearly $26bn US Dollars all for nothing. if you add Kuwaits and the Emirates and USA UK etc whar a waste of money. all they did was kiill millions of Islamist on both sides.

So the US actually sold 60 light helicopters, some trucks, some ambulances and some radios to Iraq then- along with some chemical/biological warfare stuff. Why no posts of disgust about the weapons sold by the USSR, France and China to Iraq?

The US didn't arm them with everything they asked for, quite clearly since the vast majority of Iraq's weapons weren't bought from the US.

[BIGdavalad]

They were told they could by the MoD, so why hold it against them?

They weren't told it was compulsory from what I've seen. I hold it against them because they've made us all look like dicks with their whining and money grubbing.

[Maggie May]

What standards?  They were the victims of an incident which sparked a big interest from the UK public and media, the latter of which have offered good sums of money for their stories.  £150,000 would buy a house so fair play to those who got cash.

The standards which make military personnel different.  So what there was media interest - the press conference was sufficient.  If the media want more it is told "No".  You remember "No", a good old fashioned word?  For the sake of those still serving and in constant danger, you say, it, mean it and keep on saying it.  I wonder how many pieces of silver £150,000 would buy. 

[DannyD]

What standards?  They were the victims of an incident which sparked a big interest from the UK public and media, the latter of which have offered good sums of money for their stories.  £150,000 would buy a house so fair play to those who got cash.

Using the morals behind the cash for the story hides the real issue, is the Govt using the  "hostages" as pawns to blacken Iran’s name and condition the public to accept the coming war with them, Watched ITN News and one of the young woman’s mothers who died from the roadside bomb last week said she would never have sold her story but the item ended with the reporter on the scene saying it was ironic she died in Iraq by a bomb almost certainly made in Iran without one shred of evidence to back this up, maybe this C**T is getting his name down earlu for an embedded position, and then it's fame all the way.

[DannyD]

So the US actually sold 60 light helicopters, some trucks, some ambulances and some radios to Iraq then- along with some chemical/biological warfare stuff. Why no posts of disgust about the weapons sold by the USSR, France and China to Iraq?

The US didn't arm them with everything they asked for, quite clearly since the vast majority of Iraq's weapons weren't bought from the US.

Selective quotes tut! tut! or didn’t you see they shipped arms through other Gulf states and used illegal bank accounts to fund the arms purchases, not dealing with the Russians or the rest most of their stuff was sold pre- war anyway. My argument is about the so called neutrality of the good old USA in the Iran Iraq war, the American people were lied to so was Congress yet nothing happens to gangsters so high up in the defender of democracy in the free world.

The whole arms industry is a shameful example of riches before humanity.

[BSBW]

Well that's her made a few bob then, I hope she can sleep better now.  She now has two weeks leave so I suggest that with some of the money she has made she invests in membership to her local gym and gets some of that fat of her arse and gets fit enough to fuckin fight. 

Ill treated my arse, Ive been worse off on exercise and treated worse by my own fuckin side.  She'd be a scream living in the field or in a fuckin disused warehouse for six months in an operational environment.  A story about fuck all in my opinion, I don't think the media or public realise that they are dealing with individuals who appear to have a very limited experience of operations and by that I mean in life threatening situations, not bobbing up and fuckin down on the arl briney with a ciggie hanging out your mouth and having a laugh with your mates.   

[GBF]

The Royal Navy reputation is getting tarnished so badly with this situation....one thing I dont understand is why the Monarchy isnt trying anything to save the image and years of reputation of "their" naval force?  I know they like to leave the government to handle most situation but when image and reputation of a world renown force is being rediculised  by the world media, you would think they could have a pause from their polo games.

[Commie Bobbie]

The MoD need a war.

They've got their stooges...

It's all fucking propaganda against Iran, to soften people up for a war against Iran.

Fucking disgusting.

[Maggie May]

So she reckons being kept on her own for a couple of days, patted on the head and stripped down to her bloomers rates as being ill treated does she?  Noooooo.   This is ill treated.


The following George Cross citation was printed in the London Gazette on 17th December 1946:

"Madama Szabo volunteered to undertake a particularly dangerous mission in France. She was parachuted into France in April 1944, and undertook the task with enthusiasm. In her execution of the delicate researches entailed she showed great presence of mind and astuteness. She was twice arrested by the German security authorities, but each time managed to get away. Eventually, however, she was surrounded by the Gestapo in a house in the south-west of France.

Resistance appeared hopeless, but Madame Szabo, seizing a Sten gun and as much ammunition as she could carry, barricaded herself in part of the house, and, exchanging shot for shot with the enemy, killed or wounded several of them. By constant movement she avoided being cornered and fought until she dropped, exhausted.

She was arrested and had to undergo solitary confinement. She was then continuously and atrociously tortured, but never by word or deed gave away any of her acquaintances, or told the enemy anything of value. She was ultimately executed. Madame Szabo gave a magnificent display of courage and steadfastness."

Violette was 23 years old when she was executed.

The Life That I Have

The life that I have is all that I have,
And the life that I have is yours.

The love that I have of the life that I have,
Is yours and yours and yours.

The sleep I shall have, a rest I shall have,
Yet death will be but a pause.

For the peace of my years in the long green grass,
Will be yours and yours and yours.
 

[ratcatcher]

They are basically being used:
option 1: release official report that no-one believes anyway
option 2: let our brave boys n' girl tell they own story directly to the masses who gobble up the tabloid spin.  How awful the Iranians were to them, how they weren't in forbidden waters etc etc.

Except it will backfire as it usually does - bends the rules for political purposes, and makes a misery of the lives of the soldiers who decide to sell. I would guess they will lose more respect from colleague by selling than just going back to their posts?

Jesus christ! The world's full of cynics \ conspiracists (is that a word!?)\dont believe a word anyone tells them unless its some propoganda against your own!

The MoD need a war.

They've got their stooges...

It's all fucking propaganda against Iran, to soften people up for a war against Iran.

Fucking disgusting.

Oh dear! Someone forgot their medication!

Sorry but some of the shyte here is just, well, shyte!

[filopastry]

I have no doubt whatsoever that they've been permitted to talk to the media as they can say things that is currently politically difficult for the government to say in the light of the personnel being released by the Iranian authorities.

That said it doesn't exactly seem to be horrific tales of mistreatment that are being released, which I naively assumed is what may have happened to induce some of the propaganda interviews which were given on Iranian TV

[ratcatcher]

.....by a bomb almost certainly made in Iran without one shred of evidence to back this up, maybe this C**T is getting his name down earlu for an embedded position, and then it's fame all the way.

How do you know the reporters have been given certain info? And in any event, why is he a c**t (and you presumably not!) for reporting this?

You must be very high on that moral ground you assume to occupy.

[volga_arnold]

Jesus christ! The world's full of cynics \ conspiracists (is that a word!?)\dont believe a word anyone tells them unless its some propoganda against your own!Oh dear! Someone forgot their medication!

'Conspirators' I think is the word you're looking for. Don't you think it is justified ? Bush, Tony, why are we in Iraq ...etc

No one knows what the truth is. And this is the fundamental issue. Our soldiers/sailors are over there for no good reason. Which one of them was going to take a bullett for nothing ?

[Millie]

that woman selling her story to the scum just leaves a sour taste in my mouth - I am pretty sure she will live to regret it

[GBF]

that woman selling her story to the scum just leaves a sour taste in my mouth - I am pretty sure she will live to regret it

she is fat anyway

[wistycastor]

As my 76 year old Dad said this afternoon, "what would Douglas Bader have made of that lot?"
Writing letters against your own side, practically giving a powerpoint presentation on Iranian TV saying how your country's in the wrong, then accepting bad luggage as a thank you gift: you'd think all involved would be inclined to forget about it as soon as possble and be glad to get back to work.

[Maggie May]

that woman selling her story to the scum just leaves a sour taste in my mouth - I am pretty sure she will live to regret it

Alas, we cannot read the foul rag to share her trauma at allowing herself to be dressed in a trouser suit two sizes too large, which accentuated her enormous arse, and a jersey with wide horizontal stripes.  I mean.  To dress a fat woman in wide horizontal stripes plumbs the depths of depravity.  The fiends.  Surely this is cruel and inhuman punishment and is outlawed by the Geneva Conventions?

[Manila Vanilla]

So defeat has been snatched from the jaws of victory...

The "hostages" arrive home to overwhelming public goodwill. The MOD then screws up by allowing them to accept money. This is supposedly so the MOD can control the content of interviews, which makes us think they must have something to hide. Propaganda over truth. 1-0 to the Iranians.

There was plenty of sympathy for our cigarette-smoking, peanut-chomping, ping-pong heroes. Most of us were prepared to accept that they chummied up to their captors under duress and were really one step ahead of the fiends.
But, Faye, didn't you realise that the the rag which bought your story is more interested in spicing up its own distorted version of "the truth"? Do you really think we now believe or care about anything you say?
So you imagined they were measuring you up for a coffin? As in, "We all thought we were being measured for coffins - and the next day we were forced to wear new suits (which fitted surprisingly well)".
So you you imagined you were going to be raped because they asked you to take your clothes off?
So someone heard a rifle click and imagined you were all about to be executed?
Poor little Arthur cried like a baby because he was deprived of "Topsy". These Iranians are masters of psychological warfare... How could any amount of training prepare you for that?
Everything appears to be the result of over fertile imaginations, rather than physical distress. And even our own allies seem to consider acceptable the practices of sleep deprivation and uncomfortable physical positions over long periods.
2-0 to the Iranians.

Well, your lives are now in the public domain. Rival newspapers will look for spoiling stories. They probably won't have to rummage through your dustbins as there'll no doubt be plenty of shipmates or other acquaintances willing to dish the dirt. The only percentage of the money you could conceivably give to your shipmates is 100%, and it's probably too late for that now. I'd look for another career.

The only person to come out of this with credit is Felix Carman. Not only was he the most articulate of the bunch but he's also had the dignity to realise that his duty and his colleagues come before money.

[Millie]

To dress a fat woman in wide horizontal stripes plumbs the depths of depravity.  The fiends.  Surely this is cruel and inhuman punishment and is outlawed by the Geneva Conventions?

if it isn't it should be! mind you in her case I would make an exception 

[Millie]

As my 76 year old Dad said this afternoon, "what would Douglas Bader have made of that lot?"
 

My 80 year old Dad was saying pretty much the same thing

[DannyD]

How do you know the reporters have been given certain info? And in any event, why is he a c**t (and you presumably not!) for reporting this?

You must be very high on that moral ground you assume to occupy.

Certain ifo would be spread all across the media, they are gagging to get the hook into Iran. "Weapons of mass destruction? well later but remember the last time have to soften the Plebs up a bit first"

He is a C**T because he did report it without the shred if evidence to back it up. The story was the interview with the mothere of the young female soldier who died last week and her reaction to the Cash for Story episode. You move away from the crying mother and it cuts into a great big hole in an Iraq road and some local holding up a soldiers helmet and he then says " it is ironic she died in Iraq by a bomb almost certainly made in Iran"

That is hearts and minds stuff if nothing is. I like to have the facts laid out to me not some Saville Rowe suited journos hype on them.

[AndyP]

Absolutely disgusted. Obviously money means more to them than integrity.

I had a feeling that would be your response and I agree entirely. Every soldier knows that what happened them is an occupational hazard and at first view they were not treated in such a bad way as to suggest being tortured. Many soldiers have suffered far worse horrors both personally or to close friends and retained dignity throughout. I feel that it is a slur on the people who paid the ultimate price for their country.
 
They may not be my country's armed forces and I do not agree with a lot of what is going on but I will always respect people who willingly put themselves in the line of fire, because I will admit, I would not be in a hurry to do it voluntarily.

[ratcatcher]

Commiebobbie, DannyD and other muppets. Who's spreading the propoganda now?


"The Iranian military says it will soon release a film documenting the arrest, interrogation and statements by UK sailors held in Iran for two weeks.

It said it was a huge scandal for the UK military that some of the sailors had been allowed to sell their stories.

The military will release a CD and book about the arrest of the sailors - or, as it calls them, "British aggressors".

The statement came from the culture and propaganda office of the joint chief of staff of Iran's armed forces.

The suggestion is this film will prove Iran's contention that it treated the sailors well and they confessed to entering Iranian waters of their own volition.

The Iranian military has now supported the line of the foreign ministry, saying the British government forced the group to refute their earlier statements, making them read from a prepared text.

The Iranian military also says Britain has put on a childish show after the release of its naval personnel and instead of welcoming Iran's compassionate attitude, the UK again showed its aggressive nature and ignorance of international law.

It seems Iran and Britain are increasingly engaged in a media war over the sailors, trading accusations over their treatment nearly a week after they were set free. "

Oh go on, let me guess!

[RedTerry]

its £100,000. anyone would sell their story for that.

Think about it, £100,000 to tell a story. they are not selling secrets.

[BIGdavalad]

its £100,000. anyone would sell their story for that.

Think about it, £100,000 to tell a story. they are not selling secrets.

I wouldn't.

[RedTerry]

I would.

[Maggie May]

I would.

Well I bloody wouldn't, so don't tar everyone with your own shitty brush.  I'm sorry to break this to you, but no matter how poor they are, there are some things honourable people won't ever do for money.  A pity you aren't one of them.

[Graeme]

If each and every one of them were asked to write an account of what happened, which were then released by the MoD for printing in the Newspapers, nobody would give a flying fuck - just because the newspapers are prepared to pay them for their story everybody is up in arms.

[Maggie May]

Commiebobbie, DannyD and other muppets. Who's spreading the propoganda now?

Iran of course.  Only to be expected except by the dimwitted (which alas seems to encompass all of our lot who were remotely involved in this disaster).  CommieBobbie and DannyD are by no means muppets - they have the situation correctly pegged.  Iran is winning this hands down.

When the hostages were diverting their minds from their ordeal by laughing, joking and playing table tennis, did it never occur to them that they might be filmed, so when they came home and told tales of brutality and suchlike, those images wouldn't be trotted out?  That their claims of forced "confessions" on camera would not be blown by their carefree images off camera?  And they couldn't see that coming a mile off.  Sweet Jesus.

[Maggie May]

If each and every one of them were asked to write an account of what happened, which were then released by the MoD for printing in the Newspapers, nobody would give a flying fuck - just because the newspapers are prepared to pay them for their story everybody is up in arms.

Well as I understand it, there is supposed to be an inquiry into this, and they would have had ample time to write their accounts for submission to that inquiry.  That is the correct way to do it.  That is how Fat Faye gets to tell "her side", to the inquiry, not via the Scum.  Nobody should bleat to the press in the meantime or, preferably, at all.  And the MoD's first duty is not to the media. 

[BIGdavalad]

just because the newspapers are prepared to pay them for their story everybody is up in arms.

But that's the point - that they've sold their stories.

[Graeme]

Why begrudge them because the papers were prepared to give them money for their story?  Thats what all this is about.  Its not about the Secrets Act or standards, its because they earned a few quid.  So what?

[BIGdavalad]

Why begrudge them because the papers were prepared to give them money for their story?  Thats what all this is about.  Its not about the Secrets Act or standards, its because they earned a few quid.  So what?

Because they're supposed to have standards and those standards include not selling your story to the papers.

[Graeme]

Yawn.  As I told you yesterday, they were given permission by the MoD, who set the standards.

[BIGdavalad]

Yawn.  As I told you yesterday, they were given permission by the MoD, who set the standards.

The MoD are, and have been for many years, a fucking joke. Standards are what set us apart from civvie street.Whether you understand that or not and no matter how much it makes you yawn, that's a fact.

[Cassiel]

I think it's clear the rules need to be changed. When under questioning, members of the armed forces should only offer their name, rank, account number, sort code...

I find it difficult to get worked up about this but see why some would. What turns my stomach is the rancid hypocrisy of the press, in particular the ones moaning and groaning about the lovely Faye and co spilling beans for cash. I know for a fact that the Daily Mail offered her tens of thousands of pounds, they lose out and here they are gnashing their teeth (and probably digging up all sorts of grim stuff from their background - bet the MoD haven't warned them about that). The dear old Telegraph, the forces' paper (or at least gin-soaked retired colonels in the shires with attics full of porn) also put up some sponds and are now whingeing. Yuck.

[DannyD]

Iran of course.  Only to be expected except by the dimwitted (which alas seems to encompass all of our lot who were remotely involved in this disaster).  CommieBobbie and DannyD are by no means muppets - they have the situation correctly pegged.  Iran is winning this hands down.

When the hostages were diverting their minds from their ordeal by laughing, joking and playing table tennis, did it never occur to them that they might be filmed, so when they came home and told tales of brutality and suchlike, those images wouldn't be trotted out?  That their claims of forced "confessions" on camera would not be blown by their carefree images off camera?  And they couldn't see that coming a mile off.  Sweet Jesus.

Remember reading a while back of a hostage who used the staged press conferences to drop hints to his family, He used a Southern USA accent to try and alert them to the fact he was in Southern Beirut, made up names and other bits, don't know if it helped but when he was released everyone knew he was a true hero...... disgraceful of me I can't for the life of me remember his name at the moment.

[RedTerry]

Well I bloody wouldn't, so don't tar everyone with your own shitty brush.  I'm sorry to break this to you, but no matter how poor they are, there are some things honourable people won't ever do for money.  A pity you aren't one of them.

I am honorable.

They haven't done fuck all wrong. They were given permission by the MoD to tell their stories and a paper offered them money to do so.

P.S. There are some things I wouldn't do for money either. Selling words aint one of them.

[nyctex]

It's a crying shame that Private Beharry's story isn't worth £100k

[Cassiel]

It's a crying shame that Private Beharry's story isn't worth £100k

True. It was worth around £250k (at least - I've heard double that) from a book publisher, but don't seem to remember much outcry about that. He did the odd newspaper interview to promote it too.