Author Topic: The addiction of gambling  (Read 25778 times)

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #200 on: October 31, 2017, 03:44:09 pm »
Card idea is a good one.

Its the speed of losses on the FOBT that amaze me and it makes people that are on tilt even more vulnerable, so the amount they can play needs to be restricted.
I'm a big fan of financial education so anything that helps people understand the liklihood of them winning better gets my vote.
You play roulette at a casino and the house edge is 2.7%. That means that over the long term you'll lose, but will typically lose a lot slower than someone playing a fruity with a 70% payout (assuming similar stakes per spin). But how many people actually understand this?

When my lad turned 16 he wanted to buy a scratchcard "coz you can win £1m", so I looked up the odds. For a start the game payout was about 70% like the fruity, but the odds against the £1m were about 4.5 million to one.

I'm not against gambling but have seen at close quarters the damage that gambling addiction can do and while I understand that for some addicts, odds and logic won't enter into it, more awareness of things like odds and payout ratios may stop some from getting in too deep.

I've always enjoyed a bit of a flutter, but have been shocked by the betting culture amongst young lads these days. It's far worse than say 30 years ago and can only be down to how accessible it is and the almost saturation level of coverage. Sports betting ads and live sport go hand in hand, but they only tend to advertise the most profitable bets for them.

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #201 on: October 31, 2017, 03:54:01 pm »
Defo had a bit of a problem last year. Was getting a lot of money through, and would bet high stakes. A couple of £500/£600 bets - one whilst I was drunk and on a night out. Luckily I had quite a few winners mixed in there, so ended about £100 down overall over the course of 7 months. Could've been a lot, lot worse with how reckless I was being. Wasn't the thrill of it though, I genuinely thought for a while that every bet I'd put on would be a winner and I ended up chasing a bit. Had 19 bets come in (all odds of 1.40-3.50) in a row on much lower stakes (£5, £10) which lead to me putting on massive amounts in the belief that every bet I touch would turn to gold...

Don't really bet anymore. Only here and there when I have a really good feeling about something, and even still I'll only put on £1/2. Couldn't even dream of putting on those types of bets I had in the past. Money I could've made much better use of.

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #202 on: October 31, 2017, 04:04:05 pm »
I top up my online account from time to time. Generally end up losing but like to see how long I can go without topping up again so just end up betting with tiny stakes more often than not. Don’t really have that much disposable income once the standard monthly outgoings are gone so know I’d never start making stupid bets.

How long have those FOTB machines been around and actually in high street bookies? Is this a relatively new phenomenon. Generally only head in there once or twice a year for Grand National and The Masters. April is the cruelest month!

Online oldfordie

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #203 on: October 31, 2017, 04:26:43 pm »
Card idea is a good one.

Its the speed of losses on the FOBT that amaze me and it makes people that are on tilt even more vulnerable, so the amount they can play needs to be restricted.
I'm a big fan of financial education so anything that helps people understand the liklihood of them winning better gets my vote.
You play roulette at a casino and the house edge is 2.7%. That means that over the long term you'll lose, but will typically lose a lot slower than someone playing a fruity with a 70% payout (assuming similar stakes per spin). But how many people actually understand this?

When my lad turned 16 he wanted to buy a scratchcard "coz you can win £1m", so I looked up the odds. For a start the game payout was about 70% like the fruity, but the odds against the £1m were about 4.5 million to one.

I'm not against gambling but have seen at close quarters the damage that gambling addiction can do and while I understand that for some addicts, odds and logic won't enter into it, more awareness of things like odds and payout ratios may stop some from getting in too deep.

I've always enjoyed a bit of a flutter, but have been shocked by the betting culture amongst young lads these days. It's far worse than say 30 years ago and can only be down to how accessible it is and the almost saturation level of coverage. Sports betting ads and live sport go hand in hand, but they only tend to advertise the most profitable bets for them.

Am surprised so many young people are worse than gamblers 20-30yrs ago considering theres far more information about to help them gamble better but understand the point you make.
I couldn't agree more on your point about understanding odds but taking your point further it's also about getting value, you shouldn't be backing a selection because you fancy it, you should be backing it because you think the price is at least fair. you will see it all over the country every week, people have picked out their football selections before they've gone into the betting shop and they will bet those selections regardless of the price offered by the bookies. same with the horses with many people, pick a horse out and back it no matter how small the price drops. once people begin to form a rough guide on what the price should be they will find they can rip their bet up and walk away, you will become a far better gambler once you can do this.
I also educated my lad on gambling, every now and then he will phone me up from work and ask me to find the biggest price for a particular player to be the first goalscorer in a match. many a time he's said 3/1, no chance am not backing at those odds and he's spot on.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 04:32:44 pm by oldfordie »
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Offline Roady

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #204 on: October 31, 2017, 04:27:58 pm »
I bet every weekend. However only what I can afford never stupid money. I shall put a tenner in my account Friday night. A lot of the time I'm betting high odds accas. I've won a few which more than covers me for the year. Just makes other results interesting for me and watching them come in. Never lost or added to the more than tenner I've bet. I usually do a couple of quid accas here and there. If your sensible with cashout then you could do alright. It's a mugs game though. I was in the Lake District and had no signal and couldn't use my account all weekend. I put a bet on in windermere and checked Sunday to find out I'd won almost a grand off a quid. 17 fold acca. I'd have cashed in had that been on my phone for about 200 quid probably. I have some weeks where I'll fuck all. But I won't put any money in to chase. It's a bit of fun for me nothing more. I've seen people chase in casinos. Seen my mates lost near on a grand in a night. If I go it's at the end of the night with maybe 20 quid in my pocket. If I lose ah well. If I come into profit then happy days.
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Offline CheshireDave

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #205 on: October 31, 2017, 04:30:38 pm »
How long have those FOTB machines been around and actually in high street bookies? Is this a relatively new phenomenon. Generally only head in there once or twice a year for Grand National and The Masters. April is the cruelest month!

First came in to the UK around the early 2000's and have steadily grown in popularity.

Each shop is allowed a maximum of 4 terminals no matter of the size of the shop. But all this means is you end up with 2, 3 or more of the same bookmaker in a single town centre.
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Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #206 on: October 31, 2017, 04:57:14 pm »
Am surprised so many young people are worse than gamblers 20-30yrs ago considering theres far more information about to help them gamble better but understand the point you make.
I couldn't agree more on your point about understanding odds but taking your point further it's also about getting value, you shouldn't be backing a selection because you fancy it, you should be backing it because you think the price is at least fair. you will see it all over the country every week, people have picked out their football selections before they've gone into the betting shop and they will bet those selections regardless of the price offered by the bookies. same with the horses with many people, pick a horse out and back it no matter how small the price drops. once people begin to form a rough guide on what the price should be they will find they can rip their bet up and walk away, you will become a far better gambler once you can do this.
I also educated my lad on gambling, every now and then he will phone me up from work and ask me to find the biggest price for a particular player to be the first goalscorer in a match. many a time he's said 3/1, no chance am not backing at those odds and he's spot on.

Totally agree and that was the discussion I had with my lad about the scratchcards (crap value) which then led onto a conversation about being rewarded for  the risk you are taking on, which then led onto me getting him to work out implied probability at which point he glazed over.....

But its about educating them. Its good your lad is turning odds down, I hate 1st goal scorer bets in general because of how random football is, but the odds are ridiculous for what is mathematically up to 28-1 against. My lad did a small treble the other week and included Utd v Huddersfield so it was a good opportunity to remind him of the dangers of backing away teams at odds on.

I've only based my view on the popularity of gambling among young lads on my kids mates plus anecdotes from mates. But the fact that 30 years ago you physically had to go to a bookies to bet and now its a touch of a button. You had a bad day back then, that was you till the next days 1st dog race. Now if your chasing youve got stuff at all times all over the world to have a go on. Right now we've got Al Ahli Jeddah v Al Feiha, away team 6-1 or we could have a go at the Mali or Sudan premier leagues. It's frightening.

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #207 on: October 31, 2017, 05:21:48 pm »
Totally agree and that was the discussion I had with my lad about the scratchcards (crap value) which then led onto a conversation about being rewarded for  the risk you are taking on, which then led onto me getting him to work out implied probability at which point he glazed over.....

But its about educating them. Its good your lad is turning odds down, I hate 1st goal scorer bets in general because of how random football is, but the odds are ridiculous for what is mathematically up to 28-1 against. My lad did a small treble the other week and included Utd v Huddersfield so it was a good opportunity to remind him of the dangers of backing away teams at odds on.

I've only based my view on the popularity of gambling among young lads on my kids mates plus anecdotes from mates. But the fact that 30 years ago you physically had to go to a bookies to bet and now its a touch of a button. You had a bad day back then, that was you till the next days 1st dog race. Now if your chasing youve got stuff at all times all over the world to have a go on. Right now we've got Al Ahli Jeddah v Al Feiha, away team 6-1 or we could have a go at the Mali or Sudan premier leagues. It's frightening.
It's simple enough to understand and people will agree but come Saturday you will ask them why their backing that selection at such a short price, the answer is, I really fancy it that's why.  :(
Yeah, there is a lot to gamble on and ive no problem with having a interest bet on anything as long as it's just that, a interest bet for interest. the bigger bets should be kept to sports etc you can form a opinion on.
Ive spoken to a few pro gamblers years ago online, they were earning over £180k living in Malta forming the odds for the big bookies. they made the odds for the Football coupons in betting shops. a few packed in as they could earn far more gambling.
One of the tips they gave was never back any of the big Prem teams . you will never get a fair price. the bookies know they will always take a lot of money for these teams every week so they adjust the odds to make them lower than they should be, best value is the unfashionable teams playing well they reckon.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 05:25:47 pm by oldfordie »
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Offline Fiasco

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #208 on: October 31, 2017, 06:18:45 pm »
The bookmakers themselves don't care about problem gamblers. Problem gamblers ensure that they stay in profit and they don't really give a fuck how much you lose. It's a bit like a drug dealer being concerned over a regular customer buying too much crack... unless they die, why would he care how much he's using when he's getting custom from them? The bookmaking industry is a dirty, seedy business and I'm someone who likes a bet myself. I've cut down big time compared to recent years, but I'm surrounded by friends and family who have big problems so I know the inner workings, the ins and outs, the tales of woe, the hard luck stories and everything else. It's not something you want to get involved in if you don't trust yourself to keep in control. Even then, most people don't realise they've lost control until it is too late

Bookmakers will suspend your online account if you show them that you have the tiniest clue about things relating to sport. It doesn't matter if you go onto the online casino and blow 5 grand in minutes on Roulette, they'll keep your account open. If you place a couple of accumulators on horses for example and you win then that is an instant red flag and you wont be able to bet with that firm any more (or you'll be able to bet with hugely restricted stakes). I'd ask how is that fair and morally decent but bookmakers don't understand the meaning of human decency. They want your money, simple as that. They want mug punters, they want those who bet on every favourite, they want those who have no strategy or self-control. They want problem gamblers to bet with them because they know that most of the time they'll end up blowing the lot. There is absolute no concern for the welfare of the bettor.

In shops, the FOBT'S are dangerous and they are sneaky. I think the problem is exaggerated slightly in a sense that the popcorn headlines are that people have lost X amount in minutes. What they really mean is that the bettor has staked X amount in minutes. I do understand that plenty of people upload thousands onto the things and then go on to lose the lot. I'm talking about those who wager £1000 in a set timeframe. They likely didn't upload £1000 to begin with, but the tally of bets over a number of spins adds up to that amount. It is misleading and adds to the sad tales of loss.

I do believe they are a problem however. Lowering the stakes to £2 wont happen I don't think. The government would lose too much money because the FOBT'S are cash cows. People are deeply addicted to these things, they prey on the vulnerable and they entice you with their quick payout potential. You can, in theory, walk up, put 20 quid in, place a few bets, get a bit lucky and walk out with £200 quid and the whole thing could happen in less than 3 minutes. That is what appeals: the quick, instant win and instant profit. There is no waiting all afternoon for the footie results to come in, nor do you have to perhaps study form of horses and wait a few minutes for the race to be over. Your luck is determined almost instantaneously and when you have a machine that is designed exclusively to take money from people in the long run then you have to really question why it has taken so long for these machines to come under deep scrutiny. Sure, they've made headlines for years intermittently but that isn't enough when people's lives are being absolutely ruined by them.

As for wider sports? After having watched enough of them over the years and betted on quite a few I'm deeply in the camp that a big enough portion of them are scripted and rigged. When you are talking about millions and billions of pounds, dollars and other currencies being wagered you cannot have a clean environment. And no, this isn't pocket talk. I've had some nice wins that have came about by something happening where I've said to myself "There is absolutely no way that is above board, but fuck me I'll take it." Horse racing, greyhounds, the NBA, cricket (more so the T20 leagues) and a couple of other sports are in no way clean in my opinion. This ties into the lure with gamblers because even if they do have a sound logic and rationale as to why they've placed a certain wager, they cant win anyway unless they are on the right side of the fix.

I have to leave now for 5-a-side, but I'll try and elaborate further later on. This is very important subject that is close to my heart and many others on here also.


Offline Rafas3leggedtable

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #209 on: October 31, 2017, 09:16:30 pm »
Good to get this back in limelight a bit. Im 6 and half years free from gambling.
To those who can just do a weekend footy bet and leave it there, good for you and hope it always stays that way.
For those that are like me, go to GA and treat it like your medication as if you were physically ill. It will almost certainly keep you from gambling. By not attending GA you may end up in prison or dead. At best, you will find yourself with nothing to your name. I have seen all the above at first hand.
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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #210 on: October 31, 2017, 11:11:59 pm »
High street casinos, but won't lay decent bets on horses without referring to traders or head office. I have had accounts restricted for daring to win relativity small amounts and beating SP, a sign to the bookies that you have a clue what you're doing and some bets are now restricted to random amounts like 85p each way on a 12/1 shot.

Don't bother online now, just spread my bets round shops and stare in amazement at the young lads feeding the FOBT, oblivious to their chances of winning.
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Offline CheshireDave

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #211 on: October 31, 2017, 11:19:34 pm »

Bookmakers will suspend your online account if you show them that you have the tiniest clue about things relating to sport. It doesn't matter if you go onto the online casino and blow 5 grand in minutes on Roulette, they'll keep your account open. If you place a couple of accumulators on horses for example and you win then that is an instant red flag and you wont be able to bet with that firm any more (or you'll be able to bet with hugely restricted stakes). I'd ask how is that fair and morally decent but bookmakers don't understand the meaning of human decency. They want your money, simple as that. They want mug punters, they want those who bet on every favourite, they want those who have no strategy or self-control. They want problem gamblers to bet with them because they know that most of the time they'll end up blowing the lot. There is absolute no concern for the welfare of the bettor.


Ain't that the truth!

High street bookies will happily watch streams of punters lose hundreds and hundreds on the machines but go to the counter and ask for a decent sized racing bet ante post a couple of times and they'll have to check with head office and most likely give you SP only at a vastly reduced stake. Which in fairness they're entitled to do. Why do business with someone who you suspect knows what they're doing?! But all this has done has pushed the people who know their stuff to the exchanges. The biggest of which is owned by Paddy Power. The problem with the exchanges is though is there is rarely much liquidity in the markets right up until the race starts.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 11:24:14 pm by CheshireDave »
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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #212 on: November 1, 2017, 12:24:43 am »
One of the tips they gave was never back any of the big Prem teams . you will never get a fair price. the bookies know they will always take a lot of money for these teams every week so they adjust the odds to make them lower than they should be, best value is the unfashionable teams playing well they reckon.
applies for all sports to be honest, New York yankees for baseball, England for football etc

Online oldfordie

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #213 on: November 1, 2017, 12:57:23 am »
applies for all sports to be honest, New York yankees for baseball, England for football etc
You may well be right but I doubt many people know about it or give it a second thought when placing a premier league footy bet at the weekend.
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Offline Red Viper

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #214 on: November 1, 2017, 08:07:39 am »
They should ban all the betting sites/companies from TV advertising as well. It's ridiculous how many adverts you see for betting companies now, especially if you watch a lot of sport. Can't advertise cigarettes or alcohol any more and I'd argue that gambling is just as addictive and damaging.

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #215 on: November 1, 2017, 08:20:46 am »
From a few years ago this doco is from our national TV channel in Oz.

Len Ainsworth (The founder of the modern day machine) says it all @ 7:40 when asked whats the secret to his companies success. He replies with "building a better mousetrap".

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h7idQsDKBs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h7idQsDKBs</a>
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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #216 on: November 2, 2017, 08:18:05 pm »
'Siempre es posible' - my eyes have seen the glory...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9OHC7lIfvk4

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #217 on: November 2, 2017, 10:01:22 pm »
They should ban all the betting sites/companies from TV advertising as well. It's ridiculous how many adverts you see for betting companies now, especially if you watch a lot of sport. Can't advertise cigarettes or alcohol any more and I'd argue that gambling is just as addictive and damaging.

Fully agree.

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Offline CheshireDave

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #218 on: May 17, 2018, 09:05:36 am »
The maximum stake on fixed-odds betting terminals (FOBTs) will be reduced to £2 under new rules unveiled by the government.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44148285
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Offline gazzalfc

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #219 on: May 17, 2018, 10:27:12 am »
Only going to force people online where the stakes are even larger and control/regulation is even less. It'll turn every high street bookie into an end of pier arcade.

Least when you go into a bookie and put bets on you are handing over physical cash. Online it's all electronic.

I get that it looks good on paper. It even costs the government in terms of taxes collected.

Offline CheshireDave

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #220 on: May 17, 2018, 10:45:39 am »
It'll turn every high street bookie into an end of pier arcade.

Or more likely close them down. Having spoken to staff in high street bookies they confirm they're only really open because of the FOBT.

I agree it may push more people online and you're right the stakes are pretty much unlimited there but it is easier to self exclude yourself online and even easier to set deposit limits. Self excluding on the high street is not that effective as you can just go to the next shop along or even the same bookmaker in another town. Online you can ban your debit card, self exclude your account or set deposit limits which cannot be changed easily.

Also worth noting these are casino stake terminals on the high street where there is no sign up process unlike online or in an actual bricks and mortar casino.

Not really sure where I stand on this to be honest because a problem gambler will find a way to gamble irrespective of this legislation. But on the other hand these terminals do major damage to peoples livelihoods.
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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #221 on: May 17, 2018, 10:46:57 am »
Only going to force people online where the stakes are even larger and control/regulation is even less. It'll turn every high street bookie into an end of pier arcade.

Least when you go into a bookie and put bets on you are handing over physical cash. Online it's all electronic.

I get that it looks good on paper. It even costs the government in terms of taxes collected.

They had to act, though. £100 every 20 seconds? That's sick. And when you're there in front of a machine you get sucked in much quicker in my experience (which was about 10 years of hard addiction to bandits in the late 80's & 90's)

When you get billionaires like those Done wankers bleating about having to cut jobs because they won't be able to exploit addiction to as great a degree for personal profit, then my heart fucking bleeds.

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Offline Roady

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #222 on: May 17, 2018, 03:47:47 pm »
I think it’s a good thing. I’m not a huge gambler. I’ll bang max a tenner in my account a week. I can afford to lose it and it’s a bit of interest in other footy results etc. But these machines!!! You only have to go on YouTube or something similar to see people throwing hundreds away in seconds.on a machine that has fixed odds and fixed spins on the roulette. They’re machines they’re programmed to take more than they give out each day. It’s shocking really. A good move in my opinion. I’ve never used one, never would. Used to throw a few quid here and there into a fruity when I was younger. Haven’t touched one for almost 15 years.
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Offline damomad

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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #223 on: May 18, 2018, 08:08:48 am »
Also agree it's a good move. It won't stop problem gamblers being addicted though. It just might take them a little longer to lose everything.
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Re: The addiction of gambling
« Reply #224 on: May 18, 2018, 05:43:07 pm »
The fact that you can lose such huge amounts in such a short space of time makes this the correct decision. But I also agree that it will only move problem gamblers elsewhere.

Like all addictions, people always find their way to get their fix.