Topic: Chewer of Toffees, scourge of Barça, Peeler of Spuds, Arse kicker, Wolves slayer

[plskikme]

If Klopp can get Markovic to bulk up the way Origi has and how it has impacted his effectiveness on the pitch it'd be great.

[BeautifulGame91]

Even if Sturridge is injured , still we will have Origi Ings Firmino and Gotze who can play false no.9 effectively .Some of Firmino best performances have come when played as a Striker .

Sturridge Origi Ings and Firmino is more than enough cover for striker .Can't see us signing another one unless we decided to move on Sturiddge which is unlikely .

Also signing another Striker will completely stagnate the growth of both Origi and Ings when we need to address other areas like Winger and CM urgently

[El Denzel Pepito]

Why are people including Gotze in their thinking for next season? Nothing reliable has ever been mentioned about him coming here, has there?

[BeautifulGame91]

Why are people including Gotze in their thinking for next season? Nothing reliable has ever been mentioned about him coming here, has there?

Yes there is

[harleydanger]

Why are people including Gotze in their thinking for next season? Nothing reliable has ever been mentioned about him coming here, has there?

Locked in mate. Three things are a dead set certainty in this world: The sun will come up tomorrow, Everton are bitter and Gotze to Liverpool.

[Caston]

Why are people including Gotze in their thinking for next season? Nothing reliable has ever been mentioned about him coming here, has there?

Every journo we class as reliable has mentioned it

[Red-Soldier]

Every journo we class as reliable has mentioned it

That may be, however, he still isn't a Liverpool player yet so he cannot be counted on for next season.

[clinical]

Why are people including Gotze in their thinking for next season? Nothing reliable has ever been mentioned about him coming here, has there?

Killjoy 

[Cid]

We definitely need another top striker.  These decisions need to be made in the cold light of day and not influenced by form patches at the end of hard seasons where we struggled to put together an attack.

Benteke will go,  as will Balotelli.  That leaves us plenty of room on the wage bill to get a first choice quality striker in.

Origi,  Sturridge and even Ings are all quite capable of playing the wingers of a 433 anyway.  That's where most of young divock's danger has come from as late and Sturridge did it for years at other clubs.

We should be aiming high,  but not impossibly so.   Bale is ludicrous.. Someone like Aubamayang, Griezmann, Lacazette, hernandez... We could do worse than throwing our hat in the ring for Ibra to be honest.   He's luxury player and the team would have to work hard to accommodate him but I suspect wherever he goes will end up taking the league next season.

[Schmidt]

We definitely need another top striker.  These decisions need to be made in the cold light of day and not influenced by form patches at the end of hard seasons where we struggled to put together an attack.

Benteke will go,  as will Balotelli.  That leaves us plenty of room on the wage bill to get a first choice quality striker in.

Origi,  Sturridge and even Ings are all quite capable of playing the wingers of a 433 anyway.  That's where most of young divock's danger has come from as late and Sturridge did it for years at other clubs.

We should be aiming high,  but not impossibly so.   Bale is ludicrous.. Someone like Aubamayang, Griezmann, Lacazette, hernandez... We could do worse than throwing our hat in the ring for Ibra to be honest.   He's luxury player and the team would have to work hard to accommodate him but I suspect wherever he goes will end up taking the league next season.

Erm.

[C]

If Klopp can get Markovic to bulk up the way Origi has and how it has impacted his effectiveness on the pitch it'd be great.

lets hope Jurgen is an advanced synthetic biologist then.

[Yiannis]

We definitely need another top striker.  These decisions need to be made in the cold light of day and not influenced by form patches at the end of hard seasons where we struggled to put together an attack.

Benteke will go,  as will Balotelli.  That leaves us plenty of room on the wage bill to get a first choice quality striker in.

Origi,  Sturridge and even Ings are all quite capable of playing the wingers of a 433 anyway.  That's where most of young divock's danger has come from as late and Sturridge did it for years at other clubs.

We should be aiming high,  but not impossibly so.   Bale is ludicrous.. Someone like Aubamayang, Griezmann, Lacazette, hernandez... We could do worse than throwing our hat in the ring for Ibra to be honest.   He's luxury player and the team would have to work hard to accommodate him but I suspect wherever he goes will end up taking the league next season.

Didn't Barrett and Joyce say the other week LFC will go for a probably one striker and he won't be an 'established' one but rather on the brink of it? Something like that anyway.

[C]

Dzyuba from Zenit sounds like he fits that description

[Nessy76]

That may be, however, he still isn't a Liverpool player yet so he cannot be counted on for next season.

True, although it does seem that the interest is genuine, which implies that we are looking for someone who can fill that role, whether it turns out to be Gotze or someone else.

[Schmidt]

I wonder how much we'll see of Origi playing out wide, he makes quite a good target man but also has the pace to play out there so it could be really effective putting him up against often quite short fullbacks and letting him bully them. The only other really physically strong wide player we have is Milner but he's not really the type to get at players.

[Cpt_Reina]

Never short of amazed the amount of faith that people will put in Danny Ings, with one season of top flight football behind him, coming off the back of the most debilitating injury in the game one which is notorious for curbing the effectiveness of players with his extact profile (hard runners, dribblers).

I'd sell him in a heartbeat and just put it down to bad luck.

Give all the minutes he might have had to Origi and put the cash from the sales of Ings/Balo/Benteke towards someone who will genuinely push or even replace Sturridge. Give Studge some genuine competition to measure himself again a la Suarez.

Fucking about with uderstudies and backups has cost us two seasons in a row, lets not do it again.

[C]

Never short of amazed the amount of faith that people will put in Danny Ings, with one season of top flight football behind him, coming off the back of the most debilitating injury in the game one which is notorious for curbing the effectiveness of players with his extact profile (hard runners, dribblers).

I'd sell him in a heartbeat and just put it down to bad luck.

then you are a proper donut. You would sell Ings simply because he had an injury.. not have a look at how he comes back, performs.. just straight out the door because he got injured. how f'ing stupid.

and you are a 'rawk scribe'? lordy lordy lordy

[Cpt_Reina]

then you are a proper donut. You would sell Ings simply because he had an injury.. not have a look at how he comes back, performs.. just straight out the door because he got injured. how f'ing stupid.

and you are a 'rawk scribe'? lordy lordy lordy

We dont need to see how he does. We have Origi who is younger, better, and not coming off an ACL.

Why waste the first 6 months of next season seeing if Ings will get up to speed to be anything like his former self, and then probably selling next summer anyway because he probably wont and probably wasnt any better than a 3rd choice striker for a club with our ambitions anyway.

I just dont see the need.

Origi as flown past Ings this season and pushed him even further down the pecking order. Firmino too looks more effective as a forward than a 10.

Then there's Sturridge who hopefully wont miss as much football as well as possibly (hopefully) another striker to come in case Sturridge can't stay fit again.

Where does Ings figure exactly?

[clinical]

We dont need to see how he does. We have Origi who is younger, better, and not coming off an ACL.

Why waste the first 6 months of next season seeing if Ings will get up to speed to be anything like his former self, and then probably selling next summer anyway because he probably wont and probably wasnt any better than a 3rd choice striker for a club with our ambitions anyway.

I just dont see the need.

Origi as flown past Ings this season and pushed him even further down the pecking order. Firmino too looks more effective as a forward than a 10.

Then there's Sturridge who hopefully wont miss as much football as well as possibly (hopefully) another striker to come in case Sturridge can't stay fit again.

Where does Ings figure exactly?

What? Because we will need a back up striker for league cup etc.

Also, because his value right now will be nothing, fuck all, zero. 

He proves his fitness however good he really is he's immediately worth money being young English and done well before.

[C]

I don't care where 'he figueres', that is impossible to call right now.

Michael Owen, Baggio, Shearer, van Nistelrooy, Pires etc all had ACL's and came back more than capable. are you all for binning off Joe Gomez too?

[Nessy76]

This isn't Football Manager where you can put a patsy in charge of Man City and let them buy up all the players you don't want (not that I'd ever... Oh who cares)
Nobody is going to buy Danny Ings until he's recovered. Because it's impossible to know how good a player he will be then. And if he's good enough to sell, maybe he's good enough to play. He was certainly doing extremely well before the injury and if we get that player back, we keep him, no question.

[ThePeetmix]

We dont need to see how he does. We have Origi who is younger, better, and not coming off an ACL.

Why waste the first 6 months of next season seeing if Ings will get up to speed to be anything like his former self, and then probably selling next summer anyway because he probably wont and probably wasnt any better than a 3rd choice striker for a club with our ambitions anyway.

I just dont see the need.

Origi as flown past Ings this season and pushed him even further down the pecking order. Firmino too looks more effective as a forward than a 10.

Then there's Sturridge who hopefully wont miss as much football as well as possibly (hopefully) another striker to come in case Sturridge can't stay fit again.

Where does Ings figure exactly?

It doesn't need 6 months. Klopp will be able to tell throughout pre-season and what he's doing now if he'll be an option for him.

You said it yourself, he's been pushed down the pecking order because others are coming along. So if he recovers well enough, if he'll probably have to start as the 3rd/4th choice in that position and work his way in to position. Which is fine really because as a real back-up option, I think he is a good one. Much better than Benteke anyway.

[Keita Success]

So yeah, Origi: Clunky or not? 

[riismeister]

Divock is rather good, isn't he?

[clogandbottle]

Divock is rather good, isn't he?

he's promising but no more at this stage. We need a clinical goal scorer who puts the simple ones away. God knows we create enough chances. Divock has missed a few of those recently

[Flinstone]

\we keep him, no question.

Why though? Cpt is right, all our other players are ahead of him in the pecking order and if a new face comes in he's 5'th choice. Doesn't make sense keeping him on the books. We can easily offload him to a club coming up or the clubs like Palace.

coming off the back of the most debilitating injury in the game one which is notorious for curbing the effectiveness of players with his extact profile (hard runners, dribblers).

Is this true? With sports science as advanced as it is, is it even a problem anymore? Which forward players actually dropped off a level after this injury?

[jooneyisdagod]

Never short of amazed the amount of faith that people will put in Danny Ings, with one season of top flight football behind him, coming off the back of the most debilitating injury in the game one which is notorious for curbing the effectiveness of players with his extact profile (hard runners, dribblers).

I'd sell him in a heartbeat and just put it down to bad luck.

Give all the minutes he might have had to Origi and put the cash from the sales of Ings/Balo/Benteke towards someone who will genuinely push or even replace Sturridge. Give Studge some genuine competition to measure himself again a la Suarez.

Fucking about with uderstudies and backups has cost us two seasons in a row, lets not do it again.

Selling Ings even though he has looked good in a Liverpool shirt? Without as much as giving him a sniff after his injury? Not going to happen and shouldn't happen either. For footballing reasons and otherwise. It's nonsensical to suggest otherwise.

[Flinstone]

Why wouldn't we sell him? Firmino has numbers already that Ings would have to suddenly jump a good couple of levels to reach, Sturridge's record speaks for itself and Origi is ahead of him now. With the whispers that we're in for another striker he's dead weight.

The only way he stays is if no one fresh comes in for the forward line or if we decide D isn't worth the effort.

[jooneyisdagod]

Why wouldn't we sell him? Firmino has numbers already that Ings would have to suddenly jump a good couple of levels to reach, Sturridge's record speaks for itself and Origi is ahead of him now. With the whispers that we're in for another striker he's dead weight.

The only way he stays is if no one fresh comes in for the forward line or if we decide D isn't worth the effort.

Options. Ings is a versatile player that has the ability and the strength to play as a lone striker and also play in a front two. His overall style of play is also a big advantage because he seems capable of playing in different areas of the pitch. I think that as long as his fitness isn't a concern and he retains much of his explosiveness, Klopp will absolutely love him.

In terms of what they bring, he is ever so slightly different from Firmino though Firmino has done admirably in the absence of other strikers. I think we had only started to see what Firmino can do in terms of dribbling when injury struck again, but I think he's the kind of player that can play upfront with any of the other three or drop deeper and play alongside Coutinho for example. In that sense, though Firmino has scored in great frequency, I wouldn't list him alongside Origi, Sturridge and Ings because he actually brings more versatility than just being an out and out striker. Ings to a lesser extent is similar in that he can play both as a no.9 and as a no.10. And that's good for a team looking to compete in multiple tournaments.

Any striker coming in will probably come in for Benteke who is the one that simply doesn't fit and is increasingly being replaced by Divock.

[Nessy76]

Why though? Cpt is right, all our other players are ahead of him in the pecking order and if a new face comes in he's 5'th choice. Doesn't make sense keeping him on the books. We can easily offload him to a club coming up or the clubs like Palace.

Wasn't this sort of speculation the reason this got locked the other day?

Since you ask:
He was playing very well and scoring goals in a team that was playing very badly. You don't sell someone like that without a reason, not without seeing what he can do in a team that's playing well and to his strengths. What would we gain from selling him? I don't get this obsession people have with trying to sell off half the squad, I never have.

The "if a new face comes in" is a fucking massive leap at this point, I don't think we'll be looking at a lot of strikers, the priorities will be elsewhere.

[Flinstone]

Having 4 players who can play the same position where 3* are specialists, two are clearly better than him and one is already doing what he does and 3 years younger is enough options. Between them there will still be one player who'se pissed off he's not getting enough games. Throw in a player like Ings and it's a complete waste and blocks wages and funds that can be invested in other gaps in the squad.

I don't agree that he can play in different areas of the pitch. He definitely isn't playing on the wings and quite frankly No 10 is one of the most difficult positions on the pitch and he's getting nowhere near it. We seem to be targeting a someone specific for that role which  has been confirmed by most journos worth their salt and Coutinho, Firmino and Lallana will all play there before Ings.

All that aside, he just isn't that good. Sure there are outliers who bloom late but if we're going to have 23 year olds on our books I'd prefer them to be of the level of Coutinho, Firmino, Gotze who are already on a different plane and appear to have an even higher ceiling. We can get a 20 year old to do what Ings is / was doing (which we are) at lesser cost and higher upside.

EDIT : Not sure about the speculation that got it locked the other day. My bad if it's repetitive.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

The only striker that will be sold is Benteke, there is no way that Ings is going anywhere. We need another striker to bring in we can't depend on Daniel.

[Nessy76]

Having 4 players who can play the same position where 3* are specialists, two are clearly better than him and one is already doing what he does and 3 years younger is enough options. Between them there will still be one player who'se pissed off he's not getting enough games. Throw in a player like Ings and it's a complete waste and blocks wages and funds that can be invested in other gaps in the squad.

I don't agree that he can play in different areas of the pitch. He definitely isn't playing on the wings and quite frankly No 10 is one of the most difficult positions on the pitch and he's getting nowhere near it. We seem to be targeting a someone specific for that role which  has been confirmed by most journos worth their salt and Coutinho, Firmino and Lallana will all play there before Ings.

All that aside, he just isn't that good. Sure there are outliers who bloom late but if we're going to have 23 year olds on our books I'd prefer them to be of the level of Coutinho, Firmino, Gotze who are already on a different plane and appear to have an even higher ceiling. We can get a 20 year old to do what Ings is / was doing (which we are) at lesser cost and higher upside.

EDIT : Not sure about the speculation that got it locked the other day. My bad if it's repetitive.

We're not going to play just one of Origi, Firmino and Sturridge, though, are we? Even if you always have two of them in the "first team", you'd still need two players to cover them in the squad. Origi is young, and young players go through patches of form, he's not necessarily going to be the go-to guy every game next season.

I think Ings came here knowing that he'd have to work his way into the side, that there was going to be competition, and he seems to be ok with that.

As for his wages and transfer fee, I really don't think we're going to be luring Ibrahimovic or anyone with whatever we're paying the lad, and at the moment, he has no value to anyone until he gets back from that injury.

And he's hardly a late bloomer, he scored 26 goals in 13-14 at the ripe old age of 21!

[Flinstone]

Even if you always have two of them in the "first team", you'd still need two players to cover them in the squad. Origi is young, and young players go through patches of form, he's not necessarily going to be the go-to guy every game next season.

Absolutely, my premise was that there is someone coming in. The birdies seem to be saying we're looking at someone on the cusp of breaking into the elite level.

If such a scenario develops then I stand by what I said that he isn't worth keeping around. If it doesn't then we will see I guess.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Even if there is someone coming in, the lad won't be sold without being given a chance by Klopp. It's not going to happen.

[jooneyisdagod]

Having 4 players who can play the same position where 3* are specialists, two are clearly better than him and one is already doing what he does and 3 years younger is enough options. Between them there will still be one player who'se pissed off he's not getting enough games. Throw in a player like Ings and it's a complete waste and blocks wages and funds that can be invested in other gaps in the squad.

I don't agree that he can play in different areas of the pitch. He definitely isn't playing on the wings and quite frankly No 10 is one of the most difficult positions on the pitch and he's getting nowhere near it. We seem to be targeting a someone specific for that role which  has been confirmed by most journos worth their salt and Coutinho, Firmino and Lallana will all play there before Ings.

All that aside, he just isn't that good. Sure there are outliers who bloom late but if we're going to have 23 year olds on our books I'd prefer them to be of the level of Coutinho, Firmino, Gotze who are already on a different plane and appear to have an even higher ceiling. We can get a 20 year old to do what Ings is / was doing (which we are) at lesser cost and higher upside.

EDIT : Not sure about the speculation that got it locked the other day. My bad if it's repetitive.

We have four attacking positions and going with two per position gives us 8 players in total in the squad. But by having Ings, Firmino etc, you can save on that by having versatile players that can play in more than one position or more than one role, allowing us both options in personnel as well as tactical options. Say Jurgen decides to go with 3 up front in certain games, having the extra striker/forward will help a great deal in keeping the players fresh as well as having options off the bench.

And on Ings' ability in different areas of the pitch, I'm afraid we'll just have to disagree on that one. It was one of the more impressive things about watching him play for me. He has the quality on the ball to be able to play in more crowded areas of the pitch, which was the biggest thing I liked about him when watching him for Burnley. He has much more of that ability than someone like Milner who loses the ball quickly under any sort of pressure.

[IndianRed]

The sheer irony of our fans writing off Danny Ings, a promising young forward, before he even gets a proper chance to show his worth in a thread about Divock Origi, another promising young forward, who was written off by some of our fans before he got a proper chance to show his worth.

[Matt_Red]

This isn't the Ings thread but do the guys completely writing him off realise how perfect of a player he is for the Klopp system? Keeping him and Origi is essential.

[KopThat]

You can understand why Sinclair doesn't want to sign a new contract, especially with how well Origi is doing, he would be well down the pecking order and now has Ojo coming through.

We have had a bad run of injuries with our strikers this season, so need some cover

[ThePeetmix]

You can understand why Sinclair doesn't want to sign a new contract, especially with how well Origi is doing, he would be well down the pecking order and now has Ojo coming through.

We have had a bad run of injuries with our strikers this season, so need some cover

To be fair, I think our strikers injury situation was a very extreme case this season. We had Sturridge, Benteke, Origi, Ings and also Firmino who can all play as strikers. But we were without Sturridge, Origi, Ings will through a period where we had a large amount of games. As a result, we were relying on Benteke (who has struggled all season). We did figure out that using Firmino as a no.9 was a good option to have and it worked well for us. Infact, it actually helped get our season, in particular in cup competitions, going again.

My point is though, if any team loses 3 first team strikers, they're going to be extremely light in that position. If Man City lost 3 strikers to injury, they'd have no one left. You can definitely have too many players for one position. Especially if they all want to play regular games. That's where you can start to see negativity creep in.

If Origi is going to progress beyond talented young striker and become a more regular part of our side going forward, then you've got to fills the gaps that have been left.