Topic: Wrestling Thread (AEW, NJPW, WWE, etc) (*)

[tubby]

Looks like it was just Netflix giving them money to promote Rock's new film with the egg.  Sigh.

[Wild Romany Boy]

Looks like it was just Netflix giving them money to promote Rock's new film with the egg.  Sigh.

Kind of a sign of modern day WWE:

Lots of money making capacity that then has a knock on effect on their creative storytelling.

Don't even mention anything around The Rock if he's not going to be in the building.

[OsirisMVZ]

In other news, the ridiculous egg storyline ended up being a way to give Austin Theory a title shot, with him then losing to Big E in the main event last night. Weird stuff.

I think by their standards that can be classed as a long-term storyline!

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Someone jumped the barriers at Raw last night to attack Seth Rollins. Properly went for him, but was quickly subdued by the refs and other security - mad. Been arrested now.

In other news, the ridiculous egg storyline ended up being a way to give Austin Theory a title shot, with him then losing to Big E in the main event last night. Weird stuff.

From what I have seen someone else got escorted out as well, and was apparently Seth's gear maker/stylist(?) Who apparently attacked the attacker.

[Wild Romany Boy]

From what I have seen someone else got escorted out as well, and was apparently Seth's gear maker/stylist(?) Who apparently attacked the attacker.

I think Seth did well to stay in character afterwards.

[btroom]

Someone jumped the barriers at Raw last night to attack Seth Rollins. Properly went for him, but was quickly subdued by the refs and other security - mad. Been arrested now.

In other news, the ridiculous egg storyline ended up being a way to give Austin Theory a title shot, with him then losing to Big E in the main event last night. Weird stuff.

wwe is so bad now its not even funny. its like they sacked decent writers as well.

[I've been a good boy]

I think Seth did well to stay in character afterwards.

I was more impressed with how quick he managed to put him in a guillotine. If only he had it locked in a bit longer.

[Sheer Magnetism]

Apparently the fan who attacked Rollins was catfished by a social media account pretending to be the real Seth in order to scam money off him. Which is hilarious on one level but also really sad.

[OsirisMVZ]

It's the best storyline they've had for years

[Wild Romany Boy]

Apparently the fan who attacked Rollins was catfished by a social media account pretending to be the real Seth in order to scam money off him. Which is hilarious on one level but also really sad.

That is incredibly sad. It'll all be Hornswaggle in the end. Meaning a face turn for the fan and Seth, they become tag champs.

Book it.

[El Lobo]

wwe is so bad now its not even funny. its like they sacked decent writers as well.

Its all bad WWE especially, but its all bad.

The big problem is that 'wrestling' hasn't created a star since 2002, so its stuck in this cycle of hoping the old timers can come back and boost ratings......and most of them can't, because they're too old.

[Wild Romany Boy]

Its all bad WWE especially, but its all bad.

The big problem is that 'wrestling' hasn't created a star since 2002, so its stuck in this cycle of hoping the old timers can come back and boost ratings......and most of them can't, because they're too old.

I don't think AEW is bad, or a lot of the other stuff I watch, but it is designed for a wrestling, rather than mainstream, audience.

to be honest, I think, in some way. I agree with you. WWE have messed up the creation of every star since Lesnar. At some point in the pushes of everyone since, they made serious missteps.

Cena is an odd example. Sold more stuff than anybody, no doubt a huge star for the audience they drew, but he became a star around some bad booking. He went from the rapping, badass, vengeful warrior to the smiley, happy babyface. He became, maybe, a bigger star than initially thought because they made missteps with his character.

For everyone since Lesnar, there was a flaw in their booking that prevented them getting as much stardom as they could have done.

[gazzalfc]

CM Punk and MJF putting on a promo clinic for the ages last night. Easily the longest promo AEW have run in their history and looked like they both had an absolute ball in front of that Chicago crowd.

I won't spoil it because it deserves to be watched but WWE really needs to start taking notice. If AEW carries on like this then forget the 18-49 demo and cable ratings. AEW will start beating WWE in the full ratings

[damomad]

Yeah it was brilliant from start to finish and didn't feel long at all. All started over a handshake diss, that's old school!

[OsirisMVZ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPAAKVDDEUU

Gonna watch over breakfast and emails now

EDIT: That was some good shit

[Riquende]

Very promo/segment heavy episode that one, even without 20 minutes verbal sparring to open things (which is unheard of for Dynamite but it's great to mix up the 'formula' once in a while); there's some great-looking stuff being teased up and down the card. I thought Cody's weight belt being launched back into the ring by the fans was an amazing moment in this... whatever it is he's currently doing. Could it have been set up? Even if you had a plant in the audience, it's not like you can throw those things with any real accuracy.

I assume the Danielson title match will be at Winter is Coming in the middle of December, gives him just enough time to wreck a couple more DO members in their hometowns before Hangman gets involved. Then there'll be a month or so taking in Christmas, New Year, the move to TBS and the Saturday "Battle of Belts" special before we start the build towards Revolution. It just never stops with this company, which is exactly how a wrestling company should be!

[Wild Romany Boy]

CM Punk and MJF putting on a promo clinic for the ages last night. Easily the longest promo AEW have run in their history and looked like they both had an absolute ball in front of that Chicago crowd.

I won't spoil it because it deserves to be watched but WWE really needs to start taking notice. If AEW carries on like this then forget the 18-49 demo and cable ratings. AEW will start beating WWE in the full ratings

It was even better than the Kingston/Punk confrontation.

It's why I think Punk is better on the mic than The Rock. I want to see Punk and MJF go at it more, MJF hasn't been buried but he knows that he has to raise his game. Great, great stuff.

[damomad]

It was even better than the Kingston/Punk confrontation.

It's why I think Punk is better on the mic than The Rock. I want to see Punk and MJF go at it more, MJF hasn't been buried but he knows that he has to raise his game. Great, great stuff.

The Rock was always given the best lines in his promos and no one was ever really allowed to get at him. MJF had some proper barbs at Punk, both one upping each other. Hard to say who won that, with the Rock there was never any doubt.

I don't think you can really compare the two though. The Rock was all about the legendary catchphrases, which is a bit of a relic from the past. You can bet if a young Rock was in AEW, doing the modern style promo, he'd be the best around.

[I've been a good boy]

Can't compare Rock and Punk on the mic. Rock in his prime was mostly doing funny impressions, gags and insults to appease us teenagers who loved that sort of stuff. Punk delivers cold truths to whoever he's facing, it's more reality based promos.

I personally think MJF won that. He delivered some crushing blows to Punk, who's only memorable line was comparing him to Miz.

[tubby]

Thought Punk was more succinct and to the point, whereas MJF rambled on a bit too much.  Good stuff from both though.

Average Dynamite, the Danielson/ Hangman story is excellent, just straightforward, logical stuff, but QT and the Gunns should be nowhere near the flagship show.

[El Lobo]

Better than The Rock on the mic

There’s some proper, proper desperation at the minute to make out things are amazing, when the truth is AEW are doing decent stuff and nothing more (still much better than what WWE has churned out for years mind, don’t jump on me lads it’s great that you enjoy it). That promo was ‘okay’. The best lines were rehashed from old Punk feuds from a decade ago (or one Stephanie fucking McMahon coined after he’d left)

Neither of those two can hold a candle to the actual greats on the mic (Rock, Austin, Flair, Cena, Savage, or their own Y2J). I did like the ‘less famous Miz’ line though, a lot of truth in that although I fear they probably think that was just taking the micky out of another WWE person.

[Sheer Magnetism]

Better than The Rock on the mic

Neither of those two can hold a candle to the actual greats on the mic (Rock, Austin, Flair, Cena, Savage, or their own Y2J)

Rock at his peak was incredible on the mic, but that peak lasted less than three years and he's been rehashing the same promo since then.

CM Punk is arguably top five of all time on promos and outdid Rocky the only time they had a direct feud, so I'm not sure that's a crazy take. You could make the case for the pipebomb being the greatest ever, but Punk was delivering top class promos week in, week out for years, heel and face. I'd still have Rock ahead but they're both top five ever. He's far ahead of Macho for instance.

[Wild Romany Boy]

Better than The Rock on the mic

There’s some proper, proper desperation at the minute to make out things are amazing, when the truth is AEW are doing decent stuff and nothing more (still much better than what WWE has churned out for years mind, don’t jump on me lads it’s great that you enjoy it). That promo was ‘okay’. The best lines were rehashed from old Punk feuds from a decade ago (or one Stephanie fucking McMahon coined after he’d left)

Neither of those two can hold a candle to the actual greats on the mic (Rock, Austin, Flair, Cena, Savage, or their own Y2J). I did like the ‘less famous Miz’ line though, a lot of truth in that although I fear they probably think that was just taking the micky out of another WWE person.

Trust me when I say that I am not looking for a mediocre product to be great; I'd much prefer WWE to be good to be honest. Obviously it is best for the industry, and wrestlers, if there are several viable companies available, but my own hometown loyalty is always to WWE and I remember when TNA was having a good streak around 2008 maybe, my own instinct was to hope they didn't go too far because I preferred WWE. I'm not Meltzer by any means; I enjoy AEW but I am not going to pretend that it's a revolution coming or anything like that.

When I say Punk is better than The Rock was on the mic, I always think about the variety of promos. If you want a 10/10 go home promo, The Rock was the best at that. Punk is not going to hit as many of those promos as The Rock did. I just think he will hit a greater variety of them. It's why I would have Y2J as the best of all time on the mic, because he could do the full variety. As Sheer said, The Rock did his thing for a shorter period of time, and he's played the hits when he has been back; and I don't blame him, his cheques are getting cashed, and how, in Hollywood right now.

You put prime Rock and Austin in that ring, then it would be a better segment and promo because they wouldn't need to go quite so insider. But it was great in my book and I want to see it unfold.

[Sheer Magnetism]

When I say Punk is better than The Rock was on the mic, I always think about the variety of promos. If you want a 10/10 go home promo, The Rock was the best at that. Punk is not going to hit as many of those promos as The Rock did. I just think he will hit a greater variety of them. It's why I would have Y2J as the best of all time on the mic, because he could do the full variety. As Sheer said, The Rock did his thing for a shorter period of time, and he's played the hits when he has been back; and I don't blame him, his cheques are getting cashed, and how, in Hollywood right now.

People will scoff at this but it's also why I'd put Jericho top five of all time on promos, because of the sheer range of stuff he could deliver. If you go through other wrestlers' greatest hits they're generally a variation on the same theme. With Jericho, it runs the full gamut of comedy to drama, heel to face, Man of 1,004 Holds to the suit Jericho heel turn to the introduction of the Inner Circle, over a quarter of a century.

[Wild Romany Boy]

People will scoff at this but it's also why I'd put Jericho top five of all time on promos, because of the sheer range of stuff he could deliver. If you go through other wrestlers' greatest hits they're generally a variation on the same theme. With Jericho, it runs the full gamut of comedy to drama, heel to face, Man of 1,004 Holds to the suit Jericho heel turn to the introduction of the Inner Circle, over a quarter of a century.

100%. I think he's well on the decline now - and he seems to be a bit of a dick to say the least - but the guy could bring it.

It's a matter of opinion, but I think the overall star power of someone like The Rock means they don't get to do the variety that Y2J could. The Rock couldn't do a Piper's Pit - a segment designed to give heat to programmes that the main wrestler isn't even in - because he is, clearly, the bigger star in the room.

[tubby]

Rock is a bit of a weird one in that his shtick was perfect for the attitude era, but felt really stale and almost childish when he was back against people like Cena and Punk (who absolutely bodied him on the mic).

But then when he did that weird coked-up Rodney Dangerfield routine at the start of a RAW, he was right back on it.  And anyone sharing the mic with him is instantly elevated.

MJF is insane on the mic for his age, but he needs a lot of fine tuning.  Like Punk said, he goes for the lowest hanging fruit and I guess that's part of his character, as the brash young talent trying to get eyes on him, but it feels like there's much better work to come from him.  The angry promo he cut after Full Gear was excellent.

[amir87]

A lot easier to do quality promos when aimed at adults.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

The Rock is obviously one of the greatest ever in terms of pure charisma and just being a star. His promo's in the attitude era were perfect for the time.

As tubby has said though when he came back and did the same schtick, it seemed outdated and stupid. However I don't blame anything of that on the man, as basically anything he does or says normally as Dwayne Johnson comes across as more charasmatic than most people in showbiz, nevermind wrestling. And given prior form, I think it is fair to but the blame at WWE writings door on them (even if it was them just telling him to do the classics except PG)

Punk is absolutely one of the best ever on the mic as well, always has been someone to grab your attention and be incredibly compelling whether face or heel. Even disgarding both nostalgia and modern bias, he is an all timer on the mic.

MJF is great for his age, but maybe he does take too low a shots, although I definitely feel that's the gimmick (tacky rich boy who think's he's a bigger deal than he is). I genuinely think it's deliberate because when he brings the fire and not the jokes, and the way he reacts, are signs of someone who really knows what he is doing. It's still scary to think this dude is 24, you've got 15-20 years mega heel with this guy.

[I've been a good boy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjtAgrsnY5g&t=639s&ab_channel=dxinite

Jericho, Punk and Cena could never even come close to replicating this. Skip to 3:13, that is nuclear heat.

[btroom]

Love the FTR theme music. really nice version of midnight express

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/xCsNVcNvHH4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/xCsNVcNvHH4</a>

[OsirisMVZ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjtAgrsnY5g&t=639s&ab_channel=dxinite

Jericho, Punk and Cena could never even come close to replicating this. Skip to 3:13, that is nuclear heat.

Elias and Owens got way worse than that with their Seattle Basketball team line

[stevieG786]

That MJF and Punk segment.. BAH GAWD

Amazing TV, one of the best back and forth segments I’ve seen

[stevieG786]

A lot easier to do quality promos when aimed at adults.

This

Prime Rock in AEW tv:14 would outshine everyone, punk and MJF included

The rock/punk feud in WWE wasn’t The Rock, it was Dwayne Johnson. A prime Rock 99-03 would chew him up, catch phrase or no catch phrase, don’t get it twisted.

[Wild Romany Boy]

This

Prime Rock in AEW tv:14 would outshine everyone, punk and MJF included

The rock/punk feud in WWE wasn’t The Rock, it was Dwayne Johnson. A prime Rock 99-03 would chew him up, catch phrase or no catch phrase, don’t get it twisted.

Think we'll disagree with that, but I'd sure like to have seen prime Rock in this environment.

Amazing to think that he was almost gone from the then WWF because they didn't know what to do with him. If he hadn't of been a legacy wrestler, and looking a million bucks, we might never have seen the people's champ!

[Wild Romany Boy]

Aalso, watched Smackdown and, for the first time in a while, the main event scene is interesting.

Potential for Lesnar, Sami, Drew Mcintyre and maybe Woods to come after Reigns.

I don't know who is going to be the person to take over from Roman, but this will be an interesting diversion.

I just hope they don't mess up the guy who is going to be made by beating Reigns. I just hope they don't use this whole reign to turn Roman in to the super face they always wanted him to be. Or just go back to Lesnar.

[amir87]

No one else besides Lesnar is a viable opponent for Reigns. Drew is good  but not on their level.

There's very little believable top stars out there at the moment besides a very small handful.

[gazzalfc]

Interesting stat after survivor series is that Randy Orton now had the most PPV matches in WWE/F history

He also now has the most appearances on RAW in WWE history

[Wild Romany Boy]

No one else besides Lesnar is a viable opponent for Reigns. Drew is good  but not on their level.

There's very little believable top stars out there at the moment besides a very small handful.

Shouldn't be too hard to get someone to be a viable option. I just don't know who.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Shouldn't be too hard to get someone to be a viable option. I just don't know who.

It shouldn't be but it does take time and there not giving that to anyone on Smackdown. They could pull a rabbit out a hat and say "You are challenging now" but it makes flimsy challenges - look at Cesaro pulled out as a challenger after Mania, and now no where to be seen.

Besides which Vince has always preferred a one man at the top everyone below mentality. Hulk, Cena, Reigns, it's the majority of his booking philosophy.

However the best moments for WWE/F have been when he couldn't choose a single person (either because neither really suited his tastes, or both were so incredibly good you couldn't choose); Shawn and Bret, Austin and Rock, Smackdown when it had the Smackdown 6, Smackdown when it had both Lesnar and Angle as top stars, and the brief moments in the Cena era where you couldn't ignore CM Punk and Daniel Bryan (as much as they tried to).

[Wild Romany Boy]

It shouldn't be but it does take time and there not giving that to anyone on Smackdown. They could pull a rabbit out a hat and say "You are challenging now" but it makes flimsy challenges - look at Cesaro pulled out as a challenger after Mania, and now no where to be seen.

Besides which Vince has always preferred a one man at the top everyone below mentality. Hulk, Cena, Reigns, it's the majority of his booking philosophy.

However the best moments for WWE/F have been when he couldn't choose a single person (either because neither really suited his tastes, or both were so incredibly good you couldn't choose); Shawn and Bret, Austin and Rock, Smackdown when it had the Smackdown 6, Smackdown when it had both Lesnar and Angle as top stars, and the brief moments in the Cena era where you couldn't ignore CM Punk and Daniel Bryan (as much as they tried to).

I think there is enough on Smackdown to occupy time. January challengers are rarely the highest quality, so they cna get away with Sami and Woods, but I don't think that Drew is too far behind those two big stars. They may have stumbled with him, but he's a big, bad bastard who can kick your teeth down your throat.

For the guy who takes out Reigns. Yes, they'll have to start that soon and build them well. I don't know who that is. There aren't many I would say that they present as a star. If anybody.

I do believe that they are using the Reigns run to make Reigns the mega face they always wanted him to be. And that might work, but then they'll need his heel.

Bret and Shawn had each other, Austin had Mr McMahon, The Rock had Triple H, Angle had Benoit/Lesnar. Even Hogan had Piper. Reigns does need that other person, and Lesnar is not gonna be it long-term.