Topic: Science Fiction books

[Nessy76]

I love science fiction, but Dune really didn't work for me. I just couldn't relate to any of the characters, they all fell a bit flat.

[red mongoose]

Mediocre movie (at best) but INCREDIBLE book -- Dune.

Dune won the Hugo Award in 1966, and the inaugural Nebula Award for Best Novel. Reviews of the novel have been largely positive, and Dune is considered by some critics to be the best science fiction book ever written. It is the world's best-selling science fiction novel.

Science fiction author Arthur C. Clarke has described it as "unique" and claimed "I know nothing comparable to it except Lord of the Rings." Robert A. Heinlein described Dune as "Powerful, convincing, and most ingenious." It was called "One of the monuments of modern science fiction" by the Chicago Tribune, while the Washington Post described it as "A portrayal of an alien society more complete and deeply detailed than any other author in the field has managed ... a story absorbing equally for its action and philosophical vistas ... An astonishing science fiction phenomenon."

I really do have to try that again. I picked it up one time and I couldn't fathom what was going on shortly in, so I dropped it and never picked it up again. The Police were my favourite band and when I saw Sting was in the movie, I was sorely tempted to watch it, but I never did, just in case I wanted to try to read the book later. (I realize Sting can't act for shit, I'm just saying. This was before he started talking about tantric sex and went adult contempo on us - this was when he was one of the three coolest people on Earth  In my opinion like    )

[SP]

One of the 3 coolest people on earth you say?

[red mongoose]

One of the 3 coolest people on earth you say?

 

I know, mate. I get it.  I was thinking "Secret Policeman's Other Ball" Sting, rather than "Balls in Policeman's Secret Underpants" Sting:

[Corkboy]

I recently read Ancillary Justice, a debut novel by Ann Leckie, a far/alternate future space opera, which I liked so much, I'm now reading the sequel, Ancillary Sword. Ancillary Justice won the Hugo Award for Best Novel, Arthur C. Clarke Award and Nebula Award for Best Novel.

[24/7]

One of the 3 coolest people on earth you say?

Note the tan line where Sting had a wristwatch - much sunbathing on the Dunes.....

[Nessy76]

I recently read Ancillary Justice, a debut novel by Ann Leckie, a far/alternate future space opera, which I liked so much, I'm now reading the sequel, Ancillary Sword. Ancillary Justice won the Hugo Award for Best Novel, Arthur C. Clarke Award and Nebula Award for Best Novel.

I just read Ancillary Justice, too. Great read, definitely recommended.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I ploughed through more than 100 Arthur C. Clarke short stories. Some amazing ideas. Reminds me very much of Asimov.

[24/7]

I ploughed through more than 100 Arthur C. Clarke short stories. Some amazing ideas. Reminds me very much of Asimov.

They had a very, very good relationship based on mutual admiration. I seem to recall one foreword containing reference to a communication from one to the other along the lines of, "With respect and admiration from the world's second best science fiction writer to the world's second best science fact writer" or something like that..........I really liked Clarke's Rama trilogy but also the short stories were truly inspirational, especially the ones predicting our future.

[kavah]

^ Jim and Andy, have you see this little clip?  (it was on at the beginning of the Steve Jobs Movie). Arthur C. Clarke's amazing imagination and prescience regarding the internet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXxyCyDEaEg

[24/7]

^ Jim and Andy, have you see this little clip?  (it was on at the beginning of the Steve Jobs Movie). Arthur C. Clarke's amazing imagination and prescience regarding the internet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXxyCyDEaEg

Amazing!!! Never seen that - however, elsewhere in his literature, he also predicted massive disease/hunger/poverty that will wipe out billions and reduce us back to a more 'sustainable' global population......

[RedRabbit]

Dune is a masterpiece.

The reason so many people don't get it, and I admit to being one of those after my first reading, is that most people only read it once, or don't finish it because they are waiting for the story to be told to them and not invest any part of themselves in it.

My suggestion is to read it again, but this time keep in mind Jesus Christ and the politics of the day. Then, read it again but this time remind yourself of the political and social upheaval that was occurring in the world when it was written. Then, read it again, but this time keep in mind the idea of population explosions, ecology and finite resources. Problems that afflict us today. Then read it again, but with an eye on what it really means to be free. Then read it again.

No human art is timeless. Dune is trying though.

[Stevie-A]

No human art is timeless. Dune is trying though.

I'll agree with this 

[Corkboy]

I have been reading The Illustrated Man, a collection of short stories by Ray Bradbury, which are just super.

[kennedy81]

The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula Le Guin is probably the best sci-fi I've read recently. Beautifully written with lots of interesting ideas revolving around sexuality, much of which relate to things going on today.

[kennedy81]

I have been reading The Illustrated Man, a collection of short stories by Ray Bradbury, which are just super.

Yeah, I enjoyed that too. I liked the one with the kiddies VR room and the lions.

[Zimagic]

Reading Seveneves by Neal Stephenson now. Wonderful.

[Nessy76]

Reading Seveneves by Neal Stephenson now. Wonderful.

Read Quicksilver years ago. Always meant to finish that series, but never got round to it. I think now I would have to start from the beginning again, which could be a treat if it's as good as I remember, but those are three big books...

[Andy @ Allerton!]

^ Jim and Andy, have you see this little clip?  (it was on at the beginning of the Steve Jobs Movie). Arthur C. Clarke's amazing imagination and prescience regarding the internet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXxyCyDEaEg

Nice one mate

[Nessy76]

Just saw the Netflix trailer for the new adaptation of Richard Morgan's Altered Carbon.

If you like noir-ish cyberpunk sci fi, Philip Dick meets Raymond Chandler but way more violence than that implies, I strongly, strongly recommend the book.

[The Bournemouth Red]

Has anyone read any of the Metro (2033, 2034, 2035) series?

[SP]

Has anyone read any of the Metro (2033, 2034, 2035) series?

Is that by Haynes?

[The Bournemouth Red]

Is that by Haynes?

It's a Russian post-nuclear war series of novels, not sure who wrote them.

[Stevie-A]

Is that by Haynes?

I see what you did there. Bravo.

[24/7]

I see what you did there. Bravo.

Subtle but effective, no? Manual puns, not automatic ones

[Stevie-A]

Subtle but effective, no? Manual puns, not automatic ones

Wonderfully subtle, as you say. More of this kind of thing!

[classycarra]

The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula Le Guin is probably the best sci-fi I've read recently. Beautifully written with lots of interesting ideas revolving around sexuality, much of which relate to things going on today.

This is one of the few I've read and would completely second the recommendation.

Has anyone else read Gateway by Pohl? That's another fantastic story

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Just saw the Netflix trailer for the new adaptation of Richard Morgan's Altered Carbon.

If you like noir-ish cyberpunk sci fi, Philip Dick meets Raymond Chandler but way more violence than that implies, I strongly, strongly recommend the book.

I read it a couple of years ago. Thought it was a little messy and confused to be honest. William Gibson did the genre much better IMO - but then again William Gibson is a genius.

I'd certainly agree that it's worth a read. I got it for a couple of quid a few years back off Amazon in digital form in a sale. Interesting book.

[Nessy76]

I read it a couple of years ago. Thought it was a little messy and confused to be honest. William Gibson did the genre much better IMO - but then again William Gibson is a genius.

I'd certainly agree that it's worth a read. I got it for a couple of quid a few years back off Amazon in digital form in a sale. Interesting book.

Gibson pretty much invented the field and towers over it like a cyberpunk colossus. I think Richard Morgan has taken a lot of the trappings of the form and tried to do something different with it.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Gibson pretty much invented the field and towers over it like a cyberpunk colossus. I think Richard Morgan has taken a lot of the trappings of the form and tried to do something different with it.

The weird thing is that the Sprawl never made it into film or even a Netflix series. Even today it's still up there as the best Stories ever.

Spoiler

Wintermute and the assembled objects that directly read into the human psyche was an amazing concept. The way he changed it throughout and the way it's been shamefully nicked over the years. Bloody bloody Stargate totally robbed. In fact, if I went down that path, I'd be slagging off and getting annoyed with probably 100 Cyberpunk films through the years. So I won't.

It's the same problem they had with Secret of Monkey Island (Pirates of the Carribean) and Moorcock (Pretty much every fantasty film ever since the 60s)

If they made those films, you'd probably have people saying "They robbed that off Stargate, or Hellboy or the Matrix..."

I'm always a bit sad that some of the very best stories and films never made it film. But then you get some like Adjustment Team that are brilliant stories and they rewrite them to make them crap. Never really understood that - you get acclaimed writers whose works have stood the test of time and are popular and you get some dickhead who thinks he's better than Philip K. Dick, William Gibson, Douglas Adams and all the rest. And they usually make a pigs ear of it.

Roadside Picnic - the books are astounding. The film would be shite, no doubt.

Then you have Donaldson, Feist, Barker, Lovecraft, Brin, Baxter and the rest - some seriously amazing stories in there and they keep remaking bloody Spiderman

[close]

[SP]

Johnny Keanu Mnemonic.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Johnny Keanu Mnemonic.

True, but the film was so awful I managed to forget it

The actual story was great. Pretty much a prequel for the Sprawl as well. Interesting that Steppin' Razor made it into that story as well. And I always thought The 'Squiddies' from the Matrix came from the word in this story.

[SP]

True, but the film was so awful I managed to forget it

The actual story was great. Pretty much a prequel for the Sprawl as well. Interesting that Steppin' Razor made it into that story as well. And I always thought The 'Squiddies' from the Matrix came from the word in this story.

I loved the book, I am still scarred by the film.

[newrosswaterford]

Gibson pretty much invented the field and towers over it like a cyberpunk colossus. I think Richard Morgan has taken a lot of the trappings of the form and tried to do something different with it.

Sorry to be a disagreeable bastard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stars_My_Destination

One of the best ever sci-fi books, was the first main cyberpunk book with human cybernetics. Bester stopped writing Sci-fi in 59 (some shorts after that year) which was a criminal act on the scene. He is up there with Asimov, Clarke and Heinlein of the era and anyone interested in them should at least give this novel a go and his equally excellent The Demolished Man which won the first Hugo for best novel. His short are also worth reading.

Also Robert Heinlein shorts are superb. ....all ye zombies is a classic and turned into a really bright film http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2397535/ with Ethan Hawk.
You have to remember when reading some of his stuff from the 40's the knowledge of space was quiet limited, so thinking about the young boy (like RR Martin who started reading Sci-fi after reading Have spacesuit will travel by Heinlein as a 12 years old) reading about the possibility of travelling to the moon 25 years before the moon landings must have been pretty awesome. Well Heinlein captures that fantastically well, and being an engineer and proper Army man his stories have a great sence of realism despite the content.

Poul Anderson and Fredrick Pohl are worth following from the era also, although Pohl really comes into his own in the 70's after becoming an editor for 15 years. His Gateway stuff is brilliant. However https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Space_Merchants was released in 52 and followed on from Fredrick working in an ad agency. The book is about an Ad agency in the future but this book is a must for those big fans of Mad Men. 

Poul Anderson's Tau Zero is a joy. As is any of his time travel novels, his ability to write about past societies in history just sparkles with awareness and intelligence. 

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Enjoying the talk in here.

Just picked up Altered Carbon so giving that a go.

I hadn't realised Predestination was based on a Heinlein short story, thanks for that newrosswaterford, I'll have to check it out sometime - I enjoyed the film.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Sorry to be a disagreeable bastard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stars_My_Destination

One of the best ever sci-fi books, was the first main cyberpunk book with human cybernetics. Bester stopped writing Sci-fi in 59 (some shorts after that year) which was a criminal act on the scene. He is up there with Asimov, Clarke and Heinlein of the era and anyone interested in them should at least give this novel a go and his equally excellent The Demolished Man which won the first Hugo for best novel. His short are also worth reading.

Also Robert Heinlein shorts are superb. ....all ye zombies is a classic and turned into a really bright film http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2397535/ with Ethan Hawk.
You have to remember when reading some of his stuff from the 40's the knowledge of space was quiet limited, so thinking about the young boy (like RR Martin who started reading Sci-fi after reading Have spacesuit will travel by Heinlein as a 12 years old) reading about the possibility of travelling to the moon 25 years before the moon landings must have been pretty awesome. Well Heinlein captures that fantastically well, and being an engineer and proper Army man his stories have a great sence of realism despite the content.

Poul Anderson and Fredrick Pohl are worth following from the era also, although Pohl really comes into his own in the 70's after becoming an editor for 15 years. His Gateway stuff is brilliant. However https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Space_Merchants was released in 52 and followed on from Fredrick working in an ad agency. The book is about an Ad agency in the future but this book is a must for those big fans of Mad Men. 

Poul Anderson's Tau Zero is a joy. As is any of his time travel novels, his ability to write about past societies in history just sparkles with awareness and intelligence. 

I've read some of those and really enjoy the short stories of the 40s onwards - they seemed to offer so much imagination because that's all they had - they had to imagine the science that may be to come - so some of it was shockingly correct and some was hilariously wide of the mark - but in the context of the stories they were wonderful.

Strangely I think that modern writers are constrained a bit by science. In the past, most people didn't know that much about 'science' apart from what they saw in popular TV or heard on the radio - usually dull stuffy er.. stuff. But then they read science fiction and that made them wonder and think. Modern writers however are greeted with a much more savvy audience - people 'know' most of what needs to be known about science due to the many excellent books, the teaching in schools and colleges and universities, the films and realistic presentation of the material. So a modern writer has to write within their contstraints of the universe and the rules or run the risk of being ridiculed - they can't just imagine what is to come - and I think that many are so caught up in the science of the moment that they are blinded to the science and knowledge to come. Most 'new ideas' and 'new thinking' just really is an extrapolation of known science and doesn't really change anything. The bold statements of things that might be seem to have largely gone.

Obviously people like Baxter stun you with each new imagining of the possible - if you read some of his books they take you to the literal end of space and time and imagine what might be.

But even books like that are constrainted to science as we understand it.

I always find 'Sci-Fi' when it's laughed at by people as being 'stupid' amazingly seems to have driven some of the brightest scientists and help realise some of the brightest discoveries.

I'll have a look through my collection for some of those you mention - I've probably read quite a few but re-reading after a few decades pause is like meeting an old friend again.

[newrosswaterford]

I've read some of those and really enjoy the short stories of the 40s onwards - they seemed to offer so much imagination because that's all they had - they had to imagine the science that may be to come - so some of it was shockingly correct and some was hilariously wide of the mark - but in the context of the stories they were wonderful.

Strangely I think that modern writers are constrained a bit by science. In the past, most people didn't know that much about 'science' apart from what they saw in popular TV or heard on the radio - usually dull stuffy er.. stuff. But then they read science fiction and that made them wonder and think. Modern writers however are greeted with a much more savvy audience - people 'know' most of what needs to be known about science due to the many excellent books, the teaching in schools and colleges and universities, the films and realistic presentation of the material. So a modern writer has to write within their contstraints of the universe and the rules or run the risk of being ridiculed - they can't just imagine what is to come - and I think that many are so caught up in the science of the moment that they are blinded to the science and knowledge to come. Most 'new ideas' and 'new thinking' just really is an extrapolation of known science and doesn't really change anything. The bold statements of things that might be seem to have largely gone.

Obviously people like Baxter stun you with each new imagining of the possible - if you read some of his books they take you to the literal end of space and time and imagine what might be.

But even books like that are constrainted to science as we understand it.

I always find 'Sci-Fi' when it's laughed at by people as being 'stupid' amazingly seems to have driven some of the brightest scientists and help realise some of the brightest discoveries.

I'll have a look through my collection for some of those you mention - I've probably read quite a few but re-reading after a few decades pause is like meeting an old friend again.

I think the sci-fi part can be over emphasised in the older stuff. Van Vogt's stuff isn't all that science based,it's more social minded. The thing about the writers back then was they learned their trade through writing for the magazine's. They got paid per word (1c per word in the 50's apparently). Basically you learned quick. It also meant they learned how to get to the point. You had 10,000 words to shine. From Heinlein and Asimov to Dick, the ability to carry an idea to finish in a condensed form was paramount to their style.

The unreal science became a great way to carry idea's, whether they be scientific, moral, social or physical. 

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I think the sci-fi part can be over emphasised in the older stuff. Van Vogt's stuff isn't all that science based,it's more social minded. The thing about the writers back then was they learned their trade through writing for the magazine's. They got paid per word (1c per word in the 50's apparently). Basically you learned quick. It also meant they learned how to get to the point. You had 10,000 words to shine. From Heinlein and Asimov to Dick, the ability to carry an idea to finish in a condensed form was paramount to their style.

The unreal science became a great way to carry idea's, whether they be scientific, moral, social or physical. 

I think you have a very good point there. I think Philip K. Dick's stories largely are very mundane and normal, but he throws in an odd thought or idea that makes the normality ripple and buckle under the strain and his stories are showing - in a very understated way - how a 'normal' person deals with situations that are anything but.

I can't remember all the authors, but many of my favourite books have thrown a preverbial brick through the window of normality. Adjustment team was so low-key and ordinary and I loved the dog getting into trouble! The idea of when he barks.. wowzers.  The one where a bunch of people wake up in a town having adverts played at them 24/7 - and you know what - those buildings look suspiciously model like! Or Bobo getting a bit carried away with his star - loved that idea. And no one thought of it? And then you have the 'is this even science fiction' books that throw you and unsettle you - Metamorphosis I reckon was eagerly read by very young David Lynch. That was the thing about Kafka - I honestly believe his stuff is Science Fiction - look at the Trial - would easily fit into any dystopian future.

I'm a big fan of thinking about our reality and it's clear that much of humanity literally lives in a bubble. I think there's more to time and space and reality that we understand and the bits that we 'know' are pretty much unlike all of the known material universe - our personal objective 'this' isn't usually. And that's without going into dark matter, dark energy, different dimensions, time, space and energy.

[Nessy76]

Sorry to be a disagreeable bastard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stars_My_Destination

One of the best ever sci-fi books, was the first main cyberpunk book with human cybernetics. Bester stopped writing Sci-fi in 59 (some shorts after that year) which was a criminal act on the scene. He is up there with Asimov, Clarke and Heinlein of the era and anyone interested in them should at least give this novel a go and his equally excellent The Demolished Man which won the first Hugo for best novel. His short are also worth reading.

I've read The Stars My Destination, and it is a great book, but I would never consider it cyberpunk.

[SP]

The books recommended here reminded me of this series:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SF_Masterworks

I worked my way through most of them a few years ago. Well worth doing to broaden your horizons.