Author Topic: Air Source Heat Pump  (Read 1452 times)

Offline Trada

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Air Source Heat Pump
« on: October 6, 2022, 07:47:35 am »
Just wonder if anyone has one of these fitted to thier house.

Just got a government grant to have things done to my house they are going to do the wall and loft insulation plus fit a couple of electric vents.

And said they would also fit a Air source heat pump system just wondering does they mean they fit radiators in each room and fit ba new water tank?

I hope it does my house has no heating apart from plug in heaters and my water tank has a leak.

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #1 on: October 6, 2022, 08:06:35 am »
If you don't currently have radiators then you will need them... or underfloor heating.

They also need bigger radiators than a gas boiler does as it can't heat the water as hot.

Offline KillieRed

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #2 on: October 6, 2022, 08:46:13 am »

I looked into this Trada, after some of my patrons had told me about getting grants for it (older people, living in rural areas, so i dont qualify just yet  ;) ). I looked at local companies and the estimates were between 15k and 30k! If you can get it done via grants all to the good, the folks i spoke to said it was great. You will need some land/decent sized garden though in which to lay the piping for the actual heat source.
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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #3 on: October 6, 2022, 09:03:23 am »
I looked into this Trada, after some of my patrons had told me about getting grants for it (older people, living in rural areas, so i dont qualify just yet  ;) ). I looked at local companies and the estimates were between 15k and 30k! If you can get it done via grants all to the good, the folks i spoke to said it was great. You will need some land/decent sized garden though in which to lay the piping for the actual heat source.

The air source heat pump doesn't need that much space, my mum's one is about the size of 2 wheelie bins.

If it's ground source you do need more space (or dig down for the piping but think that is more difficult nad expensive).

Offline redbyrdz

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #4 on: October 6, 2022, 09:04:28 am »
You will need some land/decent sized garden though in which to lay the piping for the actual heat source.

No, that is for ground source heat pumps. Air source heat pumps are a box, the size of a larger aircon unit. You'll need about 3 x 1 foot of land.



Trada, have you got a contract or any paperwork? See what it says in there about radiators. You'll deffo need a heating system to make use of it.
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Offline Trada

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #5 on: October 6, 2022, 10:08:53 am »
No, that is for ground source heat pumps. Air source heat pumps are a box, the size of a larger aircon unit. You'll need about 3 x 1 foot of land.



Trada, have you got a contract or any paperwork? See what it says in there about radiators. You'll deffo need a heating system to make use of it.

Had no paperwork yet just had a phone call yesterday to say what they will do and the first person to come is on the 17th and that is to fit internal wall insulation which they said will take 2 maybe 3 days then I think it the loft insulation after that and then someone's coming to do some electrics and I think the heat pump is the last thing done.

When I had the solar panels done I got all the paperwork afterwards in a way I was lucky when I got the first grant for some reason they only did the solar panels and nothing else but only a month later that grant scheme ended and a new one started on August 1st and the surveyor said I can get all these new things done on the new grant scheme because they don't take into account if you used the old grant scheme as long as you met the requirements
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Offline redbyrdz

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #6 on: October 6, 2022, 10:45:53 am »
Had no paperwork yet just had a phone call yesterday to say what they will do and the first person to come is on the 17th and that is to fit internal wall insulation which they said will take 2 maybe 3 days then I think it the loft insulation after that and then someone's coming to do some electrics and I think the heat pump is the last thing done.

When I had the solar panels done I got all the paperwork afterwards in a way I was lucky when I got the first grant for some reason they only did the solar panels and nothing else but only a month later that grant scheme ended and a new one started on August 1st and the surveyor said I can get all these new things done on the new grant scheme because they don't take into account if you used the old grant scheme as long as you met the requirements

If you don't hear anything else, nail down the electrics guy ansd ask about radiators. The insulation people likely are a different company and won't know, but whoever is putting electrics in to wire things up will want to know what they're supposed to wire up.
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Offline bradders1011

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #7 on: October 6, 2022, 03:08:19 pm »
"And we'll have another track from Air Source Heat Pump later in the show."

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Offline Red Raw

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #8 on: October 6, 2022, 05:36:45 pm »
...
And said they would also fit a Air source heat pump system just wondering does they mean they fit radiators in each room and fit ba new water tank?

I hope it does my house has no heating apart from plug in heaters and my water tank has a leak.
Not got one myself but some of this might be useful for you.

If the installers are doing internal wall insulation this will be between 50 mm and 100 mm thick so your rooms could become 4" to 8" smaller. External wall insulation tends to be less disruptive but might not be suited to some properties.

ASHP tend to deliver water at about 45°C for radiators or about 35°C for underfloor heating. Traditional boiler systems have distribution temperatures in excess of 65°C. To be able to deliver heat at an appropriate rate the emitter surface area needs to increase so they will either fit oversized radiators or use an underfloor system (thin plastic hot water pipes running under the whole of the floor, either under a wooden subfloor or within a concrete screed).

The underfloor option is a lot more work as all of the floor coverings would need to come up and the bottoms of all your doors cut down. Underfloor is more likely to be done new build while radiators are more likely to be used in a retrofit. It is worth asking so you will know what to expect in terms of disruption/clearing rooms.

ASHP don't have the power to provide hot water on demand so you will definitely have a hot water cylinder which might include an electric immersion heater so that the system can be brought up to 60°C periodically to kill off legionella bacteria which can arise in a low temperature heating system.

The main problems people seem to get with heat pumps are due to incorrect sizing and more complicated controllers.

The company should have to do proper heat loss calculations based on the level of insulation that will be achieved and this will determine the capacity of the heat pump. If they get it wrong or the people doing the insulation have cut corners it might not work as expected. If a heat pump is too big it will cycle excessively, cost more and wear out more quickly than it should, if it is too small it won't be able warm the place up on colder days. If the heat pump being made to work too hard (e.g. because it is undersized) you will see a build up of ice on the fins of the outside unit. Most units will have an auto defrost cycle which in some cases is a direct electric heater, while others can run in reverse and suck a bit of heat out of the house.

Control systems for heat pumps can be complicated, user unfriendly or just poorly explained to end users. Many folk are used to putting the heating on when they feel cold and a high temperature boiler system will bring the place up to temperature reasonably quickly. Because the ASHP runs at lower temperatures it can take longer to bring the temperature up so the timer/thermostat might need to be allowed to come on earlier. It is often said that a heat pump is better a providing steady low level heat rather than a quick boost.

If you are currently using plug in electric/storage type heaters the heat pump should use at least three times less electricity to deliver the same amount of heat (even less if the insulation is done well).

Good luck with it, ask the installers loads of questions and hopefully you will have a warmer, cheaper winter.

Offline Trada

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2023, 10:16:22 am »
I wrote the original message in october of last year put didnt get the heat pump fully fitted until the Spring of this year it was all fitted but not connect because Southern electricity had to come to check the electricity to make sure it would would be ok after a couple of months they came and checked the wiring etc which was fine but the main house fuse was 60amp and it needed to be 100 amp so I then had to wait another few months as they had to do a quote for the upgrade then the heating company had to ok the quote then I had to wait for them to come to do the upgrade and then the heating company came and connected the heat pump.

So the last 24 hours was the first time I had used it before I had a plug in heater that would heat up only the main room and not very well and cost £1 an hour to run.

Yesterday I had the heat pump heating the room at 20 degrees after about 8 hours of that it was a nightmare miles to hot kept nodding off so I turned the heating down to 16 degrees so have set the program up to run from 7am to 10pm at 16 degrees and then from 10pm until 7am 12 degrees. its so strange trying to work out the best temperature its the first time Ive had proper heating.

But what really shocked me was the cost Im a very low user of electric and my usage is only about £2.50 day the solar panels save me money and in the last 24 hours even with running it at 20 degrees for hours I only used £5.50 of electric so the heating only cost £3 extra about 12.5p and hour I was expecting between 30 and 40p an hour

I find that hard to believe seeing, its also heating the hallway, landing and bedroom, got it off in 3 of the rooms because I never hardly go in them.

it will be interesting how much it uses now my new setting.

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Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2023, 10:21:22 am »
Read this article about them in the Guardian last week.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/23/norway-heat-pumps-cold-heating
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Offline rob1966

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2023, 11:29:27 am »
How much did the Heat Pump cost to have installed?
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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2023, 11:44:28 am »
How much did the Heat Pump cost to have installed?
This is the problem

The cost is eye watering ….ive seen about £1500 to install though…
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Offline Trada

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2023, 01:03:47 pm »
How much did the Heat Pump cost to have installed?

Mine cost me nothing I live on my own since Tracy passed away and was on UC and someone said to me on Twitter I should try for a government grant So I did  with a a local company that do work for Somerset council and they said I qualify for one and they sent a surveyor to check over the house and he said I will get Solar panels, new thicker loft insulation, they would fit the house with  interior wall insulation, fit air vents in all the rooms and fit a complete air sourced heat pump and hot water system

Most of it was done really quickly within weeks the wall insulation was a pain, took them a week of work but even before the heating was fitted the house was a lot warmer

Then the heat pump was fitted that took a few days then it was the long wait for Southern electric.

they said it was about £25,000 worth of stuff that I got for free.

Just need to get the windows done now I have the single glaze metal Windows that will make it even better.

Its well worth trying for a grant the worse they can say is you don't  qualify for one

Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

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Offline rob1966

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2023, 01:09:52 pm »
Mine cost me nothing I live on my own since Tracy passed away and was on UC and someone said to me on Twitter I should try for a government grant So I did  with a a local company that do work for Somerset council and they said I qualify for one and they sent a surveyor to check over the house and he said I will get Solar panels, new thicker loft insulation, they would fit the house with  interior wall insulation, fit air vents in all the rooms and fit a complete air sourced heat pump and hot water system

Most of it was done really quickly within weeks the wall insulation was a pain, took them a week of work but even before the heating was fitted the house was a lot warmer

Then the heat pump was fitted that took a few days then it was the long wait for Southern electric.

they said it was about £25,000 worth of stuff that I got for free.

Just need to get the windows done now I have the single glaze metal Windows that will make it even better.

Its well worth trying for a grant the worse they can say is you don't  qualify for one




Cheers mate - Just checked on Octopus, as I'm a customer of theirs, and its £2750, they say I'll get the £7500 grant so it won't cost over £10k. It's going to take 10 years for any savings to pay for it, but the boiler is 10 years old, so I expect to ahve to change it in the next couple of years
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Offline Trada

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2023, 03:26:01 pm »

Cheers mate - Just checked on Octopus, as I'm a customer of theirs, and its £2750, they say I'll get the £7500 grant so it won't cost over £10k. It's going to take 10 years for any savings to pay for it, but the boiler is 10 years old, so I expect to ahve to change it in the next couple of years

I get my energy with My Utilita but they had nothing to do with the work I had done.

Most of it was done by RMS energy


https://rmsenergy.co.uk/


I think there are all about doing work with grant and they were really nice people, always helpful if I needed to contact them

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Offline Claire.

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2023, 04:10:08 pm »
The interior insulation, is that cavity or something applied to the walls?

Offline Trada

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2023, 06:16:36 pm »
The interior insulation, is that cavity or something applied to the walls?

when they measured the thickness of my walls they said the cavity wasn't wide enough between the 2 courses of bricks to do cavity wall insulation and they installed interior wall insulation they put up a wooden frame and waterproof membrane and then the insulation and finally a thin board and then a slim of plaster I think they removed the old plaster first


I never saw them at work I had to move from room to room while they worked they did it so well if it wasn't for the bare plaster you wont know anything was done.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2023, 06:46:25 pm »
when they measured the thickness of my walls they said the cavity wasn't wide enough between the 2 courses of bricks to do cavity wall insulation and they installed interior wall insulation they put up a wooden frame and waterproof membrane and then the insulation and finally a thin board and then a slim of plaster I think they removed the old plaster first


I never saw them at work I had to move from room to room while they worked they did it so well if it wasn't for the bare plaster you wont know anything was done.
Wow

Didn’t know they could do that.

Must be snug as anything in your place now!
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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2023, 07:44:28 pm »
when they measured the thickness of my walls they said the cavity wasn't wide enough between the 2 courses of bricks to do cavity wall insulation and they installed interior wall insulation they put up a wooden frame and waterproof membrane and then the insulation and finally a thin board and then a slim of plaster I think they removed the old plaster first


I never saw them at work I had to move from room to room while they worked they did it so well if it wasn't for the bare plaster you wont know anything was done.

Here's to a happy and warm winter.  12c though, I wish I could get away with that, 16c in ours and they're all acting like we've entered a big freeze, usually set at 18 for happy wife and life.
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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2023, 10:49:26 am »
when they measured the thickness of my walls they said the cavity wasn't wide enough between the 2 courses of bricks to do cavity wall insulation and they installed interior wall insulation they put up a wooden frame and waterproof membrane and then the insulation and finally a thin board and then a slim of plaster I think they removed the old plaster first


I never saw them at work I had to move from room to room while they worked they did it so well if it wasn't for the bare plaster you wont know anything was done.

oh cool, well, warm ;D Think I'd be in the same boat with there either not being a cavity or too narrow, does it keep heat out as well?

The front of this house gets battered by the sun in summer so it's boiling and then it's a heat loss in the winter, the windows probably need replacing as well so be something I'd think about getting all done together.

A house up the street has the exterior stuff but cos it's terraced and no-one else has it, it looks fucking nuts and I don't like the render and would prefer to keep the brick look.

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2023, 11:53:40 am »
How much did the Heat Pump cost to have installed?

You can get a 5 k grant, but they cost at least 10 k to install.

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2024, 10:03:38 am »
Trada did you get the grant first and then find a company to do the work or did the council appoint a company to do it on your behalf?

We've been told we qualify and our landlord has given us permission to do it but I'm not sure which way round to do it and I sure as hell don't want to be bombarded with emails and phone calls trying to sell me stuff.

Offline rob1966

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2024, 10:14:36 am »
Trada did you get the grant first and then find a company to do the work or did the council appoint a company to do it on your behalf?

We've been told we qualify and our landlord has given us permission to do it but I'm not sure which way round to do it and I sure as hell don't want to be bombarded with emails and phone calls trying to sell me stuff.

Speak to Octopus energy, they're pushing heat pumps
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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2024, 08:19:22 pm »
Trada did you get the grant first and then find a company to do the work or did the council appoint a company to do it on your behalf?

We've been told we qualify and our landlord has given us permission to do it but I'm not sure which way round to do it and I sure as hell don't want to be bombarded with emails and phone calls trying to sell me stuff.

The company I went with sorted it all out they got the grant and then fitted everything some of it was sourced out to other companies like heat pump specialists.

All I did was ring them and answered their questions and then just signed any paperwork I was sent in email.

Which was all about giving them the go ahead to do the work and when the work was complete

Must admit Ive hardly turned the heating on in the house is so warm now because of all the insulation fitted in the walls etc but when I have its cheap to run and warms the house nicely and that's with single frame windows I imagine it would be really good with double glazing.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2024, 08:26:00 pm by Trada »
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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2024, 08:23:51 pm »
The company I went with sorted it all out they got the grant and then fitted everything some of it was sourced out to other companies like heat pump specialists.

All I did was ring them and answered their questions and then just signed any paperwork I was sent in email.

Which was all about giving them the go ahead to do the work and when the work was complete

Thanks mate.  I'm speaking to a company that's been recommended tomorrow to see how we go about it so it's good to know how others have done it. 

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2024, 09:19:39 pm »
There's a Scando company called Aire that just moved into the UK and they're providing heat pumps with no money up front through a monthly subscription plan, maintenance included. Don't know anyone with direct experience though.

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Re: Air Source Heat Pump
« Reply #27 on: February 3, 2024, 10:18:14 am »
The upshot of whether we could get this done is that although we are eligible the house isn't.

It's too well insulated and the boiler is too new so that's it, I'll just have to keep pumping out unnecessary amounts of co2 from stupid fossil fuels 😡