Topic: Dani Pacheco

[Thog]

Not knowing much about Pacheco other than some reserve games, could it be that it's not his quality that limits his opportunities, but his attitude? I agree with what Thog said above, and I'm not trying to stir shit, but his loan within a loan comes to mind. Have multiple managers conspired to do the same to him and ruin his career? I kinda doubt that...

What attitude? Always looks to me as if he's desperate to stay at Liverpool but no one wants to give him a chance. Against West Brom, he worked his bollocks off coming all the way back to the edge of our box to win balls back for the team. He always works hard whilst playing in the reserves when he could easily sulk about it.

[buzzing]

Hope for his on sake he leaves and kick starts what seemed to be a top career

[redmark]

What attitude? Always looks to me as if he's desperate to stay at Liverpool but no one wants to give him a chance. Against West Brom, he worked his bollocks off coming all the way back to the edge of our box to win balls back for the team. He always works hard whilst playing in the reserves when he could easily sulk about it.

But surely you can see that the bolded bit is just silly. Given Pacheco's history of lack of progression over the last few years - and he is undoubtedly talented - either his managers (including at Rayo) really are conspiring to destroy his career by not using him, or there is something missing from his make up that we don't see from outside. I agree his attitude has always appeared fine when played, but what about his attitude in training? I don't know - but it's not some nonsensical conspiracy to waste a huge talent.

[steveeastend]

He put up a picture on instagram of temperatures in Malaga and just the text: Home

Now this may sound like a clichè, but I found it quite sad, he was one of the biggest talents in the world at that point and there were so big expectations for him, feel kinda sorry for the lad. Maybe he couldn't handle the pressure and the expectations when he got the chance on the highest level (though i think he should've been given more chances). 
A long journy is over for the young spaniard. It shows how hard it is to succeed at this level and reminds us how much many of the young ones coming through has sacrificed getting here. I could never have left my family 16 years of age to another country not speaking a word of their language.
Pacheco has always been fantastic with fans, taking pictures, tweeting with us etc. Not quite sure where i'm heading with this, but just wanted to say that we shouldn't jump on the backs of players' young as Pacheco, Shelvey, Suso, and so on when they play bad, it won't do any good.
 And I know many think it doesn't mean anything when one writes it in here or on twitter, but they Do read what people posts and tweets, they do. Was very sad to see the abuse Jonjo got before christmas, shows that they notice and care what people say, though they might not show it.

Sorry for going off-topic, but it can't be said enough how much we should appreciate our players, specially the young ones.
Good luck Daniel. (I reckon he'll leave this month, or in the summer. Either way)

Nice post. Agreed!

[Mr Merlot]

He put up a picture on instagram of temperatures in Malaga and just the text: Home

Now this may sound like a clichè, but I found it quite sad, he was one of the biggest talents in the world at that point and there were so big expectations for him, feel kinda sorry for the lad. Maybe he couldn't handle the pressure and the expectations when he got the chance on the highest level (though i think he should've been given more chances). 
A long journy is over for the young spaniard. It shows how hard it is to succeed at this level and reminds us how much many of the young ones coming through has sacrificed getting here. I could never have left my family 16 years of age to another country not speaking a word of their language.
Pacheco has always been fantastic with fans, taking pictures, tweeting with us etc. Not quite sure where i'm heading with this, but just wanted to say that we shouldn't jump on the backs of players' young as Pacheco, Shelvey, Suso, and so on when they play bad, it won't do any good.
 And I know many think it doesn't mean anything when one writes it in here or on twitter, but they Do read what people posts and tweets, they do. Was very sad to see the abuse Jonjo got before christmas, shows that they notice and care what people say, though they might not show it.

Sorry for going off-topic, but it can't be said enough how much we should appreciate our players, specially the young ones.
Good luck Daniel. (I reckon he'll leave this month, or in the summer. Either way)

Very well put. I wish him all the best

[horne]

he has the ability to combine wel with those in the final third....its a shame whats happening
i would loan him out and give him a chance to get his game going...you know how it is ,players go off the boil or get injured ....he has to bide his time and take his chance when it comes...in the mean time,he needs games somewhere...too good to throw away for me....for the money he will be on,hes worth keeping as i think his value to the team exceeds that,the lad has ability,there is absolutely no question about that
i havnt heard anyone in all the years hes been here tell us what he does badly

[Fordy]

Would have him ahead of Suso right now.

Shame the lad isn't getting look in.

[carra1892]

People complaining about his attitude have an attitude problem themselves.

It's not like Pacheco is running around like Balotteli right??

You have to judge the guy on what he does. In the field the guy gives 100% which speaks for him. Whether he lacks attitude in training or whatever you come up with is just speculating. Just like i can speculate that you are something without proving it. Judge him on the information that you have.

With that information you can say he is a really talented creative player that can make something happening on the field.
Liverpool fans were right about Suso and Sterling being great talents. We are right about this guy aswell.

[liverpooll]

I guess Pacheco will be having a lot of regrets. Had he stayed, he would have more than likely gotten some sort of chance at the world's best club, Barcelona.

[b_joseph]

You have to judge the guy on what he does. In the field the guy gives 100% which speaks for him. Whether he lacks attitude in training or whatever you come up with is just speculating. Just like i can speculate that you are something without proving it. Judge him on the information that you have.

But if there isnt a problem in training. Then the only other reason would be that Brendan enjoys shooting himself in the foot..and considering how willing he has been to use younger players, why would he purposely leave someone out if he thought they were up to it?
Heck, this is the man that used Joe Cole, all the while knowing that he wanted him out as soon as possible.


2 years from now, we'll see if he was wrong. But at the moment, I think we need to side with the Manager because his information is far more extensive than ours will ever be.

[Kovai Red]

Good luck lad. Hope you have a successful career after this.

[Inverse]

I wish him join Arsenal..

[Suareznumber7]

I guess Pacheco will be having a lot of regrets. Had he stayed, he would have more than likely gotten some sort of chance at the world's best club, Barcelona.

steady there my friend.

[mkferdy]

I will be interested to see how his career pans out. He desperately needs a move to a club that can offer him first team football.

[Spanish Al]

People always bang on about how great he could have been, but clearly there is something not right with him. I've heard he's got an attitude problem and a bit of a lazy trainer, but I cant really use that too much as I dont see him train every day.

But even if you do use that as the reason, if he was gonna be as good as some make out, surely that problem would be overlooked and dealt with?

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

People complaining about his attitude have an attitude problem themselves.

It's not like Pacheco is running around like Balotteli right??

You have to judge the guy on what he does. In the field the guy gives 100% which speaks for him. Whether he lacks attitude in training or whatever you come up with is just speculating. Just like i can speculate that you are something without proving it. Judge him on the information that you have.

With that information you can say he is a really talented creative player that can make something happening on the field.
Liverpool fans were right about Suso and Sterling being great talents. We are right about this guy aswell.

Have you actually read the thread?  Nobody is complaining about his attitude.  People are speculating that it may be a factor that is stopping him getting the chance that Suso has. The bottom line is that we are not privy to half the information that the feller picking the team has.  Which makes it very difficult to question his decision.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

I guess Pacheco will be having a lot of regrets. Had he stayed, he would have more than likely gotten some sort of chance at the world's best club, Barcelona.

Barcelona forums are available.  I would urge you to log off and take advantages of the services they offer.  Thanks.

[Almo]

I guess Pacheco will be having a lot of regrets. Had he stayed, he would have more than likely gotten some sort of chance at the world's best club, Barcelona.

Really? Why?

[Mutton Geoff]

I cannot understand this fawning for the lad, he hasnt really been that good in any game other than reserve ones since Rafa went, he struggled at times to get into the Norwich team as well. He was said to have had an attitude problem in Spain as well.

Now i am all for bringing on the younger players but right now who is he better than in the squad?

 Suso and Sterling have overtaken him on merit surely?

As for this guy and if i link him to Sahin, there is some stupid conspiracy theory with Brendan, well as his job is on the line someone try to explain why he would not pick his best players simply because he supposedly didnt like one or two of them. How banal is that sort of thinking.

Facts are if Pacheco was good enough and looked a better option and showed this on the training ground he would feature in more games !
I

[Yorkykopite]

It will be interesting to see what happens to Pacheco when he moves on. It might even solve a few arguments on here.

It's sometimes said that those who admire Pacheco and wanted him to do well are motivated by a desire to get one over on Barcelona. That might have a little to do with it but surely it isn't the main motivation. I think that most of Pacheco's well-wishers were simply excited by seeing him perform well at youth, reserves and U-21 level. It was also a matter of pride that he was one of the best players on display (and top scorer?) at the Euro U-19 tournament. It would have been perverse for any Liverpool supporter who saw any of those games not to get excited. The fact that he was 'stolen' from Barcelona was neither here nor there.

I'm definitely one of those who felt that Pacheco had the talent to make it all the way for Liverpool. It seemed - and still seems - that less promising players were given chances to advance that were not made available to Pacheco. In Rafa's last season (and in the opening weeks of Hodgson's season) Pacheco played very well for the first team when he was given a chance. I still find it mystifying that Rafa didn't give him a second opportunity after his excellent debut v Wolves - especially since the regulars were playing so badly. Of course he also played well for Norwich in their promotion push and Paul Lambert was gushing about him after his debut there.

But against this there is the undeniable fact that no manager yet has been convinced enough to allow Pacheco consecutive 90 minutes. You have to say that this is an impressive fact. By all accounts he's a dedicated professional and he clearly is passionate about the game, so what is it that's held him up if it isn't lack of talent? Is there something that coaches see about Pacheco that they don't like when he does make the starting line-up?

I must say I wondered about him waving to come off against West Brom in the League Cup. He'd performed well and was a creative force that night but there was something about him clutching his hamstring after 70 minutes that didn't look altogether convincing. Perhaps I'm being unfair, but I thought he was faking it and resting on his laurels. Of course Suso came off the bench, set up the winning goal and grasped his chance.

Then there was his substitute appearance in Moscow. Admittedly the pitch was crap and never likely to suit a touch player like Pacheco. But his performance that night, in contrast to a similarly 'handicapped' Suso, was dreadful. I think he lost the ball every time it came to him.

So I wonder if he lacks the self-belief and flintiness that top professional players need. Does he get too fazed by errors? Is he any good in adversity? Perhaps that's what his coaches are not convinced about. Is he, in short, too 'nice' to be a footballer?

Personally, I'd be delighted if all his coaches (including Rodgers) were proved wrong and Pacheco went on to be a magisterial player in Spain (or even England so long as it's not for Everton, ManU, ManC, Chelsea, Arse, Spurs or Leeds United). But, sadly, I don't think it will happen.

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

It will be interesting to see what happens to Pacheco when he moves on. It might even solve a few arguments on here.

It's sometimes said that those who admire Pacheco and wanted him to do well are motivated by a desire to get one over on Barcelona. That might have a little to do with it but surely it isn't the main motivation. I think that most of Pacheco's well-wishers were simply excited by seeing him perform well at youth, reserves and U-21 level.

Is there anyone on here who is not one of his well-wishers?  Surely wanting all young Liverpool players to do well is a given?

[DanA]

I don't understand why other teams like Southampton aren't in for him. He's a good little player. He proved that in the Championship and he's been exceptional in the reserves.

[Mutton Geoff]

Is there anyone on here who is not one of his well-wishers?  Surely wanting all young Liverpool players to do well is a given?

not the lad at Stoke though, sorry you just noticed you said young!

[Yorkykopite]

Is there anyone on here who is not one of his well-wishers?  Surely wanting all young Liverpool players to do well is a given?

In an abstract sense that might be true. There'd be something incredibly self-defeating about a supporter wanting a home-team footballer to do worse than he's capable of. But in the real world, where we make judgements on aptitude, we all divide don't we? I, for example, wish Spearing well but know he's not good enough for Liverpool and hope to see him fulfil whatever potential he's got at Bolton.

As for Pacheco, there are some on this thread who don't rate him at all and are convinced he ain't got what it takes. That's fine by me. Opinions are free and long may they be so. But would you call such posters "Pacheco well-wishers"? Hardly.

[Nessy76]

he has the ability to combine wel with those in the final third....its a shame whats happening
i would loan him out and give him a chance to get his game going...you know how it is ,players go off the boil or get injured ....he has to bide his time and take his chance when it comes...in the mean time,he needs games somewhere...too good to throw away for me....for the money he will be on,hes worth keeping as i think his value to the team exceeds that,the lad has ability,there is absolutely no question about that
i havnt heard anyone in all the years hes been here tell us what he does badly

Without wanting to put myself in the "not wanting him to do well" camp - I think the simple answer is that he just hasn't done enough well at the top level. It hardly seems fair, he's only had a handful of appearances, true, but when he has played, he's looked totally anonymous.

Now I'm all for players being given time, and I'm well aware some will take longer to come through and fully develop their skills than others - I was one of those who always saw a good player in Lucas. I just feel with Pacheco that, for a player who has been at the club so long, who's game is so much about flair and skill on the ball, and who arrived as a wonderkid, he's never done anything in those rare appearances - even pre-season - to make me sit up with excitement in the way a player like Sterling does.

I remember watching compilations of his goals at youth level - almost every time he chipped the keeper, which is fine when you're playing teenagers, but harder against full grown men.

Does he have potential? Clearly. Does he have skill? Yes. Does he have enough of that to make it at Liverpool? I'd love to believe so, but I've just not seen it at the top level. This season has seen a system that could be designed for him and a dire lack of competition for places in positions he should be able to cover. He's not been given a lengthy run, true, but if he can't get into the team under those circumstances and make a case for his future, then it doesn't look good for the lad.

In a way, his own early promise has become a millstone around his neck - the lad who slipped away from Barca and was all set to be the next big thing, more than any other his name was muttered in Liverpool bars as the one for the future. It hasn't happened, and when he has played, he's done very little to suggest that it will. Not here, not now.

I don't want to write him off, I hate doing that to any player. A few weeks ago, I was tempted by the notion that even Joe Cole could finally prove his worth to the club. I'm not a negative person, and I always look for the best in players who wear the red. But in Dani's case, unfortunately, I just don't see it.

[horne]

Without wanting to put myself in the "not wanting him to do well" camp - I think the simple answer is that he just hasn't done enough well at the top level. It hardly seems fair, he's only had a handful of appearances, true, but when he has played, he's looked totally anonymous.

Now I'm all for players being given time, and I'm well aware some will take longer to come through and fully develop their skills than others - I was one of those who always saw a good player in Lucas. I just feel with Pacheco that, for a player who has been at the club so long, who's game is so much about flair and skill on the ball, and who arrived as a wonderkid, he's never done anything in those rare appearances - even pre-season - to make me sit up with excitement in the way a player like Sterling does.

I remember watching compilations of his goals at youth level - almost every time he chipped the keeper, which is fine when you're playing teenagers, but harder against full grown men.

Does he have potential? Clearly. Does he have skill? Yes. Does he have enough of that to make it at Liverpool? I'd love to believe so, but I've just not seen it at the top level. This season has seen a system that could be designed for him and a dire lack of competition for places in positions he should be able to cover. He's not been given a lengthy run, true, but if he can't get into the team under those circumstances and make a case for his future, then it doesn't look good for the lad.

In a way, his own early promise has become a millstone around his neck - the lad who slipped away from Barca and was all set to be the next big thing, more than any other his name was muttered in Liverpool bars as the one for the future. It hasn't happened, and when he has played, he's done very little to suggest that it will. Not here, not now.

I don't want to write him off, I hate doing that to any player. A few weeks ago, I was tempted by the notion that even Joe Cole could finally prove his worth to the club. I'm not a negative person, and I always look for the best in players who wear the red. But in Dani's case, unfortunately, I just don't see it.

i see a player who can spot a pass,a player who scores free kicks,a player who excels at youth national level...who  could do with  a spell with steve peters because upto the northampton cup shambles was doing really well...that game was a cliff for the lads confidence and he went over it...why he took the knock for it i cant fathom coz i do remember everyone having a shocker that night...there was no energy in the team or the stadium...it was a bad one.
he needs someone to make him remember how brilliant he was and how brilliant he could be...theres for's and against's and were all entitled to an oppinion ...time will tell if he succeeds or not

[Mutton Geoff]

In an abstract sense that might be true. There'd be something incredibly self-defeating about a supporter wanting a home-team footballer to do worse than he's capable of. But in the real world, where we make judgements on aptitude, we all divide don't we? I, for example, wish Spearing well but know he's not good enough for Liverpool and hope to see him fulfil whatever potential he's got at Bolton.

As for Pacheco, there are some on this thread who don't rate him at all and are convinced he ain't got what it takes. That's fine by me. Opinions are free and long may they be so. But would you call such posters "Pacheco well-wishers"? Hardly.

disagree just because a player hasn't done well for us or you dont rate him should not immediately mean you hate the guy, i hope if he moves he does well, i simply don't think he can do it with us anymore. I would follow him like i do with interest with lads like Ayala for example.

[Yorkykopite]

disagree just because a player hasn't done well for us or you dont rate him should not immediately mean you hate the guy.

You what? Who on earth mentioned 'hate' or even 'dislike'?

[The G in Gerrard]

Every time I see this thread bumped, I think he's gone.

[Mutton Geoff]

You what? Who on earth mentioned 'hate' or even 'dislike'?

you inferred as such in doubting whether fans would still wish to follow him elsewhere, maybe you should be clearer instead of the clever sub text!

[Yorkykopite]

you inferred as such in doubting whether fans would still wish to follow him elsewhere, maybe you should be clearer instead of the clever sub text!

No, you inferred it. I implied nothing. In fact I said I wished Spearing (a player I don't rate) well at Bolton and hoped he fulfilled his potential there. Couldn't be clearer. Hatred never entered into it.

[Mutton Geoff]

No, you inferred it. I implied nothing. In fact I said I wished Spearing (a player I don't rate) well at Bolton and hoped he fulfilled his potential there. Couldn't be clearer. Hatred never entered into it.

Well it comes down to the interpretation yours is different to mine. simple as that, for the record I try to keep an eye on all our kids that get moved on.

[Fromola]

The worst thing he ever did was come here. He'd have got chances at Barcelona, who knows he could have done a Pedro and progressed from the B team.

If you've got a heart you can't held but feel for the lad.

[john_mac]

The worst thing he ever did was come here. He'd have got chances at Barcelona, who knows he could have done a Pedro and progressed from the B team.

If you've got a heart you can't held but feel for the lad.

yeah he'd be captain of Spain now if he hadn't gone to Kirkby, would have deffo been in with a chance of the Ballon D'or by now. If only Spearing had gone through the  Barca system, he'd be a world beater.

[Fromola]

yeah he'd be captain of Spain now if he hadn't gone to Kirkby, would have deffo been in with a chance of the Ballon D'or by now. If only Spearing had gone through the  Barca system, he'd be a world beater.

The lad was a top talent - a wonderkid. Who knows where he'd be?I bet he never expected to be sat in a reserve team at 22 years of age with only about 20 first team games under his belt.

[kcbworth]

but when he has played, he's looked totally anonymous.

Disagree completely.

[Upinsmoke]

Always came across as a great lad, lets face it, his chances were limited, he maybe should of had a few more opportunities but when those opportunities came along now and again he didn't offer anything over another player.

He needs to find a team where he will play most games, most weeks. That's not Liverpool but I hope he finds one.

[steveeastend]

The lad was a top talent - a wonderkid. Who knows where he'd be?I bet he never expected to be sat in a reserve team at 22 years of age with only about 20 first team games under his belt.

Sometimes it doesn´t happen though.. There is another Barca top talent now at Red Bull Salzburg and you get the impression on his amazing talent but also why he didn´t make it. He just lacks this extra desire and strength on the pitch....hard to describe why but there are countless top talents in every country not making it, the list is endless.

[Gnurglan]

I cannot understand this fawning for the lad, he hasnt really been that good in any game other than reserve ones since Rafa went, he struggled at times to get into the Norwich team as well. He was said to have had an attitude problem in Spain as well.

Now i am all for bringing on the younger players but right now who is he better than in the squad?

 Suso and Sterling have overtaken him on merit surely?

As for this guy and if i link him to Sahin, there is some stupid conspiracy theory with Brendan, well as his job is on the line someone try to explain why he would not pick his best players simply because he supposedly didnt like one or two of them. How banal is that sort of thinking.

Facts are if Pacheco was good enough and looked a better option and showed this on the training ground he would feature in more games !
I

Fair enough he needs to prove himself. But the club needs to do better as well. I want to stress that we don't have to play him. What we need to do though is make a decision. Sell, that's fine with me. We've just kept him, with little or no purpose. I said when we were about to loan him to Spain that it was pointless. It gave him nothing and it gave us nothing. Which was obvious from the start. We just pushed him out. Come summer and?So we keep him. And? Nothing. So now we want to loan him out? Why? In what way will that improve his chances at LFC? We've had a single striker for half the season and Pacheco has not played much at all. He's behind Suso and Sterling, definitely behind Suarez, Sturridge and Borini, of course also behind Downing, Gerrard and Shelvey. I'd expect him to be behind the forgotten man Assaidi. Morgan? Yesil? We're thinking of signing Ince. What are we waiting for with Pacheco?

We can't keep doing this. Sell, or try and include him, but don't put him on hold for another year. He may as well retire now. And Pacheco isn't the only one in that boat.

[B0151?]

Like the lad, he certainly didn't help himself but hope he does well wherever he does go.