Topic: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics (*)

[RivaGe]

1.5 years of same performances and he doesn't even try anything new. This is what I hate. We've been spanked by Watfords and Leicesters for a long time but keep coming out with the same game plan.

[cress]

Why can't we switch to a 4-2-3-1 for these games. Get Moreno at LB, Ojo/Mane in at AML, Mane/Wilson in at AMR, Get width on both sides and hit them on the counter with pace. Play the youth, do what he did at Dortmund. Drop the D-line.

Right now we seem to play with Coutinho as an Inside forward, Mane as winger. Yet the only effective full back for attacking will be Clyne, who with Mane in front of him doesn't need to be bombing forward. It's the overlap past Coutinho we need. Milner can't do this effectively because he isn't left footed. Our left side is so ineffective. Allows them to focus on our right side. We must be the easiest team to defend against.

Switch it up Klopp, throw in a few surprises, get the opposition guessing.

[Popcorn]

It's frustrating but our squad is shite.. Badly need to spend money in the summer and offer wages that will actually entice the good players.

Seen Klopp out shouts though which is embarrassing.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

It's a question of judgement.

Our players, for the most part, are average to decent. Except for Mane. I remember during the streak of form early in the season, some on here got carried away to the point that the likes of Lallana, firmino, coutinho got overrated beyond analysis. Decent players have good periods too you know, you've got to keep your head and wait for the overall effect over a season. You do that, these players, performances, results are not so surprising. It's not some unfixeable mess. The reasons are precise.

If Klopp can see that and finally puts his own, significant stamp on the team in terms of personnel, he'll have the chance to give it a proper go. We'll get the chance to assess him properly, even if he's found not up to scratch, he can honestly say he gave it  a good shot. Right now, a fair number of the players from the previous era are patently not top level. They're not poor, they are good pros, it's all just meh. He doesn't need to hang on to them. If mere 'decent' is the dominant level in the squad upper mid table is where it belongs.

[Redman78]

It's frustrating but our squad is shite.. Badly need to spend money in the summer and offer wages that will actually entice the good players.

Seen Klopp out shouts though which is embarrassing.

Well can all agree that we need to sign better players in the summer, but is that the main reason behind the slump in form this year?  The players can't be tired, and we've had Matip, Mane and Phil back for a while now.   I'm not convinced that our transfer activities are fully to blame for performances against the likes of Hull and Leicester.   Attitude seems to be an issue but also we could maybe make necessary tacticle changes.

[Petadroli]

Awful night.

[...]

I think it's important at games we really get behind our team, especially at home as they need confidence and a lift.  I also think we need to do everything we can to try and help us get Top Four this season.  But that was a big dent to the club last night.  Not just because it was three points.  Mentally old scars opened up, as we are showing the same frailties as a team.

Klopp needs to be ruthless and make changes.  Whether it is tactically, change in personnel - or both.  But what we are doing isn't working and we can't just keep playing the same formation, with the majority of the same players and being surprised when we can't defend and drop points.  We've got far more resources than all the teams in the bottom half of the league to expect better results against them.  It's fine punching above our weight in the big games.  But our performances against the weaker sides since when we had S&S&S have been woeful.  Even in the S&S&S season defensively it was not good enough. 

Klopp might need a new plan, as this current one isn't working, yet he seems reluctant to change it - that's concerning.

Absolutely agree with the bolded parts. Old scars opened up yesterday and it isn't the system or the manager, it is definitely the players who are at fault. Our defense is seriously bad, it really is. When's the last time we had a proper centerback pairing? Or let's say a competent triumvirate of goalkeeper and two centerbacks?
I don't think Klopp got the tactics wrong yesterday, I think his mistake was that he concentrated on our perceived strenghts and thought our weaknesses wouldn't be exposed because of us dominating the ball. We didn't dominate the ball at all though and that exposed our weak defense.

I think Klopp can still get us on a run and get the Champions League qualification. But I hope he learns from nights like yesterday and basically the whole last two months and is absolutely ruthless in the summer. Some players need to go, they really do.

[Funky_Gibbons]

The goalkeeper situation should have been resolved in the summer. If anyone said Mignolet would still be our #1 this season you’d have cried. He’s a player that’s proved over the previous three years that he’s not consistent enough but instead we buy another ‘project’ in the summer who doesn’t look like he has the tools required in this league. Position needs upgrading in the summer.

Whoever plays centre-back are brutally exposed by the system we’re playing, we’re conceding more goals than we did under Rodgers who was often lambasted for ‘not being able to coach a defence’. Both full-backs pushed up as wingers and no DM is why we’re leaking goals all over the place. Beyond Lovren and Matip we have no quality back-up, Lucas and Klavan should have been fourth/fifth choices this year yet we’re having to rely on both of them far too often. Why did Klopp buy Klavan if a central midfielder whose legs have long gone gets in ahead of him? Milner at left back stopped working weeks ago but once again the back-up is poor and we have no cover for Clyne. Need at least one more centre-back and full-backs for both sides.

Midfield is far too open, no specialist DM and two attacking midfielders who spend most of their time in forward positions. Henderson and Lallana have performed well but once again beyond them the strength in depth is poor. Can and Wijnaldum have been beyond underwhelming and have both played too often. Need at least a DM in the summer.

Firmino up front is simply not working. He’s scored in six games this season which is awful from your first choice ‘forward’. The ball bounces off him far too often and his first touch can be poor when it matters (he missed out on two good chances last night when his first touch was too heavy). He wants the ball to feet all the time as he has no pace so is never stretching a defence with runs in behind. He has no aerial threat either which makes him very one dimensional. On one side of him you have Coutinho who doesn’t really score enough, also has no pace and also wants the ball to feet. Mane has been our best forward but we’ve desperately missed him during the ACON (which was handled poorly) and need more depth out wide. We need at least one centre-forward and one winger.

We basically have a squad of around 13/14 players that Klopp seems to rate and they’ve been run into the ground, you cannot expect to get performances out of the same, small group of players all season. Our bench last night was a joke and Ben Woodburn coming on last night when we’re chasing the game makes a mockery of the ‘no-one good enough out there available’ over the winter.

The top teams set-up more balanced and have proper defensive midfielders because they have strikers who score loads and are clinical.  We have to play too open and attacking because our forwards either don’t score enough or aren’t clinical enough.

[Klippity Klopp]

Beyond Lovren and Matip we have no quality back-up

Very debatable that those two are quality as well.  Especially in Lovren's case.

Matip is making plenty of errors himself as well.

Virgil van Dijk should be our top priority this summer.  A top class CB, who has the speed to play in a high line, is very good on the ball, won't be bullied and is at the right age to deliver now and for the next 5+ years.  Then maybe a Matip could look more impressive alongside him.  I don't think Matip is the leader we hoped he'd be at the back.  Lucas was taking more responsibility than he was last night, which shouldn't be the case given his size.

[didi]

seriously is it a case of just being fitter and quicker then the other team?

[Gerry Attrick]

Wholeheartedly agree. Very good post.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Very debatable that those two are quality as well.  Especially in Lovren's case.

Matip is making plenty of errors himself as well.

Virgil van Dijk should be our top priority this summer.  A top class CB, who has the speed to play in a high line, is very good on the ball, won't be bullied and is at the right age to deliver now and for the next 5+ years.  Then maybe a Matip could look more impressive alongside him.  I don't think Matip is the leader we hoped he'd be at the back.  Lucas was taking more responsibility than he was last night, which shouldn't be the case given his size.

Matip and Lovren concede a goal a game on average which is about the same as Klopp over his management career, considering how exposed we leave them that’s perfectly acceptable. The problem is the quality drop off when either one of them is unavailable, Klavan and Lucas are not good enough.

I’d hate to see us spend ~£30-40m on Van Dijk, firstly I don’t think it would have dramatic improvements as our problems are systematic, he might be the difference between a few less goals conceded over a season but not enough to warrant that outlay, and secondly I want us to spend as much as we can on a goal-scorer so we don’t have to play so attacking/open.

Look at the way Spurs and Chelsea can play, much more balanced with two defensive midfielders in their team because they have quality up front who just only one chance to score. Give me a quality striker so we can be more compact.

[Medellin]

The 'Plan B' is Klopp's biggest task to sort out.

We have players of enough quality to beat the best out there,that is proven in our results vs the top 6.
The Plan B isn't the Benteke or Carroll route.
The squad we have now isn't 'big' enough,last night was a perfect example-we got bullied centrally big time.
For all the quality Gini & Lallana have..you don't get that dominant authoritative display you need in some games,especially away from home.
Bringing in a quality pacy LB will rid us of a lot of tge problems we have been exposed to this term.
Add a dominant DM to that will free us up to push Hendo further up & provide that bit of strength centrally.
When you have a CF (like Costa for eg)..the ball sticks,brings players up the field..keeps possession.

Thats the 3 area's for me to immediately address,a bonus arl arse fringe CB would be good too.

[Klippity Klopp]

Matip and Lovren concede a goal a game on average which is about the same as Klopp over his management career, considering how exposed we leave them that’s perfectly acceptable. The problem is the quality drop off when either one of them is unavailable, Klavan and Lucas are not good enough.

I’d hate to see us spend ~£30-40m on Van Dijk, firstly I don’t think it would have dramatic improvements as our problems are systematic, he might be the difference between a few less goals conceded over a season but not enough to warrant that outlay, and secondly I want us to spend as much as we can on a goal-scorer so we don’t have to play so attacking/open.

Look at the way Spurs and Chelsea can play, much more balanced with two defensive midfielders in their team because they have quality up front who just only one chance to score. Give me a quality striker so we can be more compact.

I don't agree with any of that.  Opinion eh.

Obviosuly a top quality striker would be nice and I wouldn't say no to one of them.  But we do currently score as many goals as any other side in the league.  Our issues are defensively and if you don't think a CB who is much better than any of ours can't improve us, then fair enough.  Although I think if we changed our approach tactically at times that would help as well.

I agree with a lot of your original post about getting a top keeper and the majority of the rest of it.  However I just don't see how we can be happy with our CBs given the amount of goals we concede.  Lovren has been here for three years and we are conceding 50+ goals a season.  He's made so many errors during that time.  Matip is making regular errors at the moment.   I think our top priority this summer have to be getting the right players to play this defensive system that Klopp wants.  New keeper & Virgil van Dijk would be a long way in doing that for me. 

[tubby]

We don't necessarily need a Plan B, we just need to be able to defend with Plan A.

[Funky_Gibbons]

I don't agree with any of that.  Opinion eh.

Obviosuly a top quality striker would be nice and I wouldn't say no to one of them.  But we do currently score as many goals as any other side in the league.  Our issues are defensively and if you don't think a CB who is much better than any of ours can't improve us, then fair enough.  Although I think if we changed our approach tactically at times that would help as well.

I agree with a lot of your original post about getting a top keeper and the majority of the rest of it.  However I just don't see how we can be happy with our CBs given the amount of goals we concede.  Lovren has been here for three years and we are conceding 50+ goals a season.  He's made so many errors during that time.  Matip is making regular errors at the moment.   I think our top priority this summer have to be getting the right players to play this defensive system that Klopp wants.  New keeper & Virgil van Dijk would be a long way in doing that for me.

We’ve scored 14-goals in 9-games since Christmas so considering how open and attacking we play we’re not exactly scoring a lot. We did well earlier in the season scoring lots of goals against the shite but that’s dried up now and teams are filling the middle of the pitch with players as that’s where we’re strong.

Our defensive issues are a consequence of having to be so attacking, and we have to be so attacking because we’re not clinical enough. We have no protection in front of the centre backs so they’re overworked, our full-backs are constantly pushed forward so they don’t offer any cover. Mistakes happen and are more costly in our system because the players are over exposed with no cover, same goes for the goalkeeper.

as I said, look at Chelsea and Spurs, both play with at least one defensive midfielder but often two and are much more balanced than us, we don't play with one.

[Smellytrabs]

Our 1st choice group of six players outside of the defence is great. If one of them is out, we just don't have the quality or style of player needed to cover them. Henderson is out, the wheels come off, Mane is out, the wheels come off, Lallana is out, the wheels come off, Bobby is out, the wheels come off. The defence takes a lot of flack, and yes we need more cover there as well. but midfield and attack is the problem when it comes to strength in depth. All it takes is one of them to be out, and we go from looking like world beaters to a shambles.

[Klippity Klopp]

We’ve scored 14-goals in 9-games since Christmas so considering how open and attacking we play we’re not exactly scoring a lot. We did well earlier in the season scoring lots of goals against the shite but that’s dried up now and teams are filling the middle of the pitch with players as that’s where we’re strong.

Our defensive issues are a consequence of having to be so attacking, and we have to be so attacking because we’re not clinical enough. We have no protection in front of the centre backs so they’re overworked, our full-backs are constantly pushed forward so they don’t offer any cover. Mistakes happen and are more costly in our system because the players are over exposed with no cover, same goes for the goalkeeper.

as I said, look at Chelsea and Spurs, both play with at least one defensive midfielder but often two and are much more balanced than us, we don't play with one.

We defended well under Rodgers for certain periods of a season, but ultimately the stats don't lie, we've conceded over 50 goals for the last three+ seasons.  If you don't think there is an issue fair enough, I do.

You can Spurs and Chelsea play with at least one defensive midfielder, so do we - Henderson. 

Chelsea don't leave the gaps that we do without the ball.  So yes, we'll be more vulnerable as a result.  But we concede goals in so many different ways, there are many issues.

[Wool]

From F365:

Here is a list of the four away league games in which Liverpool have had the most possession, and made the most passes:
Burnley – 80.4% – 848 – lost 2-0
Hull City – 72.2% – 636 – lost 2-0
Sunderland – 70.8% – 698 – drew 2-2
Leicester City – 69.1% – 621 – lost 3-1

You can add the home defeat against Swansea too, where Liverpool had 73.6% possession and completed 785 passes. In the seven games during which Klopp’s team have had most of the ball, they have taken just seven points. In the four away games during which Klopp’s team have had most of the ball, they have taken just one point.

We really need to figure out a way to combat these teams.

[Funky_Gibbons]

We defended well under Rodgers for certain periods of a season, but ultimately the stats don't lie, we've conceded over 50 goals for the last three+ seasons.  If you don't think there is an issue fair enough, I do.

You can Spurs and Chelsea play with at least one defensive midfielder, so do we - Henderson. 

Chelsea don't leave the gaps that we do without the ball.  So yes, we'll be more vulnerable as a result.  But we concede goals in so many different ways, there are many issues.

Where have I said I don't think that's an issue? Of course it's an issue but it's one that needs fixing with a system change, if you think signing Van Dijk for ~£40m is going to solve all our problems then I think you're in for a surprise.

Chelsea and Spurs play with 'at least' one defensive midfielder, Chelsea play with Kante and Matic, Spurs have Wanyama and Dier/Dembele. Henderson plays there on his own and isn't a defensive midfielder, he's a central midfielder whose been shoe-horned into that position in the same way that Milner isn't a left back just because he's been playing there.

We've got square pegs in round holes all over the pitch whilst committing two full-backs, two midfielders and three forwards to our attack leaving our two centre backs and Hederson to deal with any fallout. It's a recipe for disaster.

Edit - posted in the match thread:

The next game and win it. We've lost 5 times in the league, same as Arsenal and City.  We've conceded more than the likes of Burnley, Stoke,  'Boro and West Brom which is simply criminal.


If we had Matip and Lovren fit for the majority of the 26 games we've played I have no doubt our goals against tally would be a whole lot healthier. That's pretty much stating the obvious I accept and 'if's' and 'buts' are all well and good but we have had been unfortunate with injuries at key times.

Just look at this defensive breakdown:

2016/17

Arsenal -  Lovren / Klavan   W 4-3
Burnley - Lovren / Klavan    L  0-2
Spurs  - MATIP/LOVREN      D 1-1
Leicester - Matip/Lucas        W 4-1
Chelsea - MATIP/LOVREN     W 2-1
Hull - Matip/Klavan               W 5-1
Swansea - MATIP/LOVREN     W 2-1
Man Utd - MATIP/LOVREN      D 0-0
West Brom - MATIP/LOVREN  W 2-1
C Palace - MATIP / LOVREN   W 4-2
Watford - Matip / Lucas          W 6-1
Soton - MATIP/LOVREN         D 0-0
Sund - MATIP/LOVREN          W 2-0
B'mouth - Lucas/Lovren        L 4-3
West Ham - MATIP/LOVREN   D 2-2
M'boro - Lovren/Klavan          W 3-0
Everton - Lovren/Klavan       W 1-0
Stoke - Lovren / Klavan         W 4-1
Man City - Lovren/Klavan      W 1-0
Sund - Lovren/Klavan            D 2-2
Man U - Lovren/Klavan           D 1-1
Swans - Lovren/Klavan           L 3-2
Chelsea - MATIP/LOVREN        D 1-1
Hull - Matip / Lucas                 L 2-0
Spurs - Matip/Lucas                W 2-0
Leicester - Matip / Lucas         L 3-1


The centre back pairing of Joel Matip and Dejan Lovren have started just 10 of our 26 Premier League games to date, that's roughly 38%.

Pairing stats:

Matip & Lovren -           P10 W5 D5  L0  Goals Against: 9    18 pts from possible 30

Lovren & Klavan -           P9  W5 D2 L2  GA: 11   17pts from 27

Matip & Lucas -              P5  W3 D0 L2 GA: 7   9 pts from 15

Lovren & Lucas -          P1 W0 D0 L1 GA: 4     0pts from 3

Matip & Klavan -          P1 W1 D0 L0: GA 1 3ptd from 3

[Klippity Klopp]

Where have I said I don't think that's an issue? Of course it's an issue but it's one that needs fixing with a system change, if you think signing Van Dijk for ~£40m is going to solve all our problems then I think you're in for a surprise.

Chelsea and Spurs play with 'at least' one defensive midfielder, Chelsea play with Kante and Matic, Spurs have Wanyama and Dier/Dembele. Henderson plays there on his own and isn't a defensive midfielder, he's a central midfielder whose been shoe-horned into that position in the same way that Milner isn't a left back just because he's been playing there.

We've got square pegs in round holes all over the pitch whilst committing two full-backs, two midfielders and three forwards to our attack leaving our two centre backs and Hederson to deal with any fallout. It's a recipe for disaster.

I don't think signing one player will solve all our issues.  I think he will help, as Mane did this summer from the same club.  Buying quality players to improve where we are weak makes sense to me. 

I have agreed that tactically at times we can improve. 

You can say Henderson isn't a DM, but he's playing like one given how impressive he has been.  Your wording suggested that Spurs and Chelsea only play with one.  Spurs do at times, Chelsea however usually have two as you say.

I think we have some squad pegs in round holes with Lucas & Milner.  However Henderson is not one of them for me, he's been one of our best and consistent players this season.  His role, Clyne and Mane are the least of our problems for me. 

Although if we did sign a DM, then Henderson could play in the role ahead, which I believe is his best role.  But that is not to say he is a squad peg in a round hole, as he's been that good in that deeper role.

Edit - Those stats tell me nothing other than there is little difference between Matip / Lovren and Klavan & Lovren.  Lovren who has made far too many mistakes himself.  Sorry, I'd be furious next season if Lovren is starting for us, same goes for Mignolet.

[didi]

time and time again we are bullied
we need a strong big fuck off spine that takes no shit just like every team that wins the league in England
you need a commanding keeper, a big central unit that wins every ball in the air, a central midfielder who rain sun  or shine wins every 1% ball and a 20 goal season striker
then add the goldust around that spine

[Funky_Gibbons]

Edit - Those stats tell me nothing other than there is little difference between Matip / Lovren and Klavan & Lovren.  Lovren who has made far too many mistakes himself.  Sorry, I'd be furious next season if Lovren is starting for us, same goes for Mignolet.

Extrapolating those stats over a season would see Matip and Lovren concede 34-goals which is less than anyone in the top four last season and perfectly respectable given how open we play.

Lovren and Klavan would concede 46 which isn't far off what we've conceded in the last few seasons and on schedule to do again.

I don't care who starts at centre-back next season as long as it's not Klavan or Lucas, as I said in my original post we need more quality of the same level of our first choice pairing so when they're missing we don't see this performance drop off. If that new signing starts and Lovren drops to the bench so be it but at least we have someone who can come in when required.

I don't think that player should be Van Dijk for ~£40m as I don't think he'd significantly improve us to warrant that kind of outlay when we have other areas of the team that would benefit from that kind of money being spent on it. Put that money towards a clinical forward so we can be more compact.

 

[Studgotelli]

How a team that hadn't scored in 10 hours managed to get 3 in 30 mins as soon as they came up against us needs serious looking at.

Unfuckingacceptable.

[Phil M]

Edit - Those stats tell me nothing other than there is little difference between Matip / Lovren and Klavan & Lovren.  Lovren who has made far too many mistakes himself.  Sorry, I'd be furious next season if Lovren is starting for us, same goes for Mignolet.

Well for example, with Lovren & Klavan we drew with Sunderland 2-2 and lost to Swansea and Burnley, that's 7 goals conceded to poor sides. We didn't lose any league games with our first choice pairing.

[Upinsmoke]

I was wrong about how ruthless he could be, he's the opposite.

Stubborn and sticking by players who aren't up to it.

There isn't any need to analyse his tactics, it's his unwillingness to find any fault of the players at his disposal. As long as your a nice person and don't take the piss (except on the field) then your alright in his book.

I mean let's be honest, we are nice aren't we, just a nice team. Nice faces, lovely trimmed beards, nice hair, really nice teeth, clean kits.

Nobody wants to get there hands dirty, no fucking one. We don't battle, we get bullied.

You've got a fella on the sidelines in Jurgen who's fighting and kicking every ball, having to get the crowd going at home  games because the lads on the pitch aren't even battling half the time, just prancing round like fairies.

[Klippity Klopp]

Extrapolating those stats over a season would see Matip and Lovren concede 34-goals which is less than anyone in the top four last season and perfectly respectable given how open we play.

Lovren and Klavan would concede 46 which isn't far off what we've conceded in the last few seasons and on schedule to do again.

The sample size is so small to prove anything, sadly.

Sadly all have not been good enough this season, all making too many errors.

You seem to think we'll be more compact if we get a more clinical striker.  Where is the logic behind that?  Klopp is suddenly going to change the tactics because we have a more clinical striker?  I doubt it.

[jillcwhomever]

I was wrong about how ruthless he could be, he's the opposite.

Stubborn and sticking by players who aren't up to it.

There isn't any need to analyse his tactics, it's his unwillingness to find any fault of the players at his disposal. As long as your a nice person and don't take the piss (except on the field) then your alright in his book.

I mean let's be honest, we are nice aren't we, just a nice team. Nice faces, lovely trimmed beards, nice hair, really nice teeth, clean kits.

Nobody wants to get there hands dirty, no fucking one. We don't battle, we get bullied.

You've got a fella on the sidelines in Jurgen who's fighting and kicking every ball, having to get the crowd going at home  games because the lads on the pitch aren't even battling half the time, just prancing round like fairies.

You clearly didn't see his press conference where he ripped into the players, he will take the hard decisions come the end of the season. This will have been a season where he will have learnt a lot about this particular group of players.

[Klippity Klopp]

Well for example, with Lovren & Klavan we drew with Sunderland 2-2 and lost to Swansea and Burnley, that's 7 goals conceded to poor sides. We didn't lose any league games with our first choice pairing.

But have conceded two vs Palace, two vs West Ham.  So it's not like they have been convincing themselves.

They might be our best pair.  Not sure it says too much though given the sample size and their defending themselves.

Best of a poor / average bunch.

[Klippity Klopp]

I was wrong about how ruthless he could be, he's the opposite.

Stubborn and sticking by players who aren't up to it.

The summer will show how ruthless he is.

He has to back the players now and rightly so as we still have a chance to get top four.

[Phil M]

Best of a poor / average bunch.

The stats show we're clearly better when our best players play which is quite elementary. I amen't and no one else is claiming that Dejan Lovren is the answer to all our problems or that a Matip/Lovren partnership for the season wins the title for us, but until we upgrade and strengthen the back 5 this is our best and most successful pairing quite clearly.

We've been guilty of trying to put square pegs in round holes at times.

Mignolet, Clyne, Matip, Lovren, Milner, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Lallana, Coutinho, Mane, Firmino is our best XI imho. We just haven't been afforded the luck to see that side play a consistent number of games.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

You seem to think we'll be more compact if we get a more clinical striker.  Where is the logic behind that?  Klopp is suddenly going to change the tactics because we have a more clinical striker?  I doubt it.

For me having another attacker who is clinical and takes chances early is crucial (we have too many attacking midfielders whose inclination is to take too many touches in the box, meaning the chance is often gone) but so is adding a physical presence up there. Ideally that would come in the form of one player but I accept it's going to be very difficult for us to sign that player and I'm not sure who it would be.

So perhaps the solution is to sell Sturridge and Origi (or perhaps loan out the latter). They've both shown they can't be relied upon this season bar the odd game here and there. In their place we sign someone like Lacazette, a pacey live-wire who pretty much guarantees goals but perhaps won't be a nailed on starter for the big games, where Firmino has shown himself to be very effective as a front man. And then we also add someone like Rondon, a real physical presence with a 'great touch for a big man' who also has enough mobility to press (he works bloody hard) and would allow us to defend slightly deeper as a side in these tough away games we're struggling in. Origi doesn't offer us that at all. I'm not sure what he's offering right now frankly.

[Upinsmoke]

The summer will show how ruthless he is.

He has to back the players now and rightly so as we still have a chance to get top four.

Obviously we have a chance while it's still mathematically possible but in terms of our form since the turn of the year then it's very much a slim chance.

To be honest it's one of those situations where you see a club going for promotion and you think to yourself maybe they aren't ready for that. I mean are we ready for CL football, we can't cope with the schedule without European football. We got CL football not so long ago and it didn't help us sign any good players. So I don't think CL football is an opportunity to sign better players, maybe for some clubs but we showed it doesn't help in terms of player recruitment.

[Funky_Gibbons]

The sample size is so small to prove anything, sadly.

Sadly all have not been good enough this season, all making too many errors.

You seem to think we'll be more compact if we get a more clinical striker.  Where is the logic behind that?  Klopp is suddenly going to change the tactics because we have a more clinical striker?  I doubt it.

They’re all making for too many errors because they’re overworked and have no cover in front or beside them so every mistake is punished or magnified. We also don’t have a keeper who commands his area or sweeps so there’s a massive gap between our centre-backs and keeper.

I haven’t said we will be more compact, I’ve said that’s what I would like to see. The point was we’re having to play so open and commit so many players forward because we haven’t got a natural striker who can sniff out chances and take them. Other teams can be more conservative with their players because they have that quality up front.

Firmino had two chances last night when he received the ball in the box but his first touch let him down on both occasions, a ‘Kane’, ‘Aguero’ or ‘Costa’ would have taken at least one of those, we didn’t so had to continue to attack in numbers. There’s an old adage in football that a team is only as good as its striker, a great striker can carry a poor team.

The summer will show how ruthless he is.

He has to back the players now and rightly so as we still have a chance to get top four.

Doubt it.

[Klippity Klopp]

The stats show we're clearly better when our best players play which is quite elementary. I amen't and no one else is claiming that Dejan Lovren is the answer to all our problems or that a Matip/Lovren partnership for the season wins the title for us, but until we upgrade and strengthen the back 5 this is our best and most successful pairing quite clearly.

I think it shows they are marginally better as the sample size is too small to draw any other conclusions.

But even if they are the best, I don't think it says much.  I agree with your other point about strengthening in that area, which is why I believe it should be our priority this summer getting the defensive side of things right.

For me having another attacker who is clinical and takes chances early is crucial (we have too many attacking midfielders whose inclination is to take too many touches in the box, meaning the chance is often gone) but so is adding a physical presence up there. Ideally that would come in the form of one player but I accept it's going to be very difficult for us to sign that player and I'm not sure who it would be.

So perhaps the solution is to sell Sturridge and Origi (or perhaps loan out the latter). They've both shown they can't be relied upon this season bar the odd game here and there. In their place we sign someone like Lacazette, a pacey live-wire who pretty much guarantees goals but perhaps won't be a nailed on starter for the big games, where Firmino has shown himself to be very effective as a front man. And then we also add someone like Rondon, a real physical presence with a 'great touch for a big man' who also has enough mobility to press (he works bloody hard) and would allow us to defend slightly deeper as a side in these tough away games we're struggling in. Origi doesn't offer us that at all. I'm not sure what he's offering right now frankly.

I'm all for signing a more clinical striker, who compliments the rest of our attack - and it will help us.

I am just not convinced Klopp will change his tactics as a result.

If we had Lacazette leading the line last night, I still think he would have allowed Vardy all that space to run in behind. 

They’re all making for too many errors because they’re overworked and have no cover in front or beside them so every mistake is punished or magnified. We also don’t have a keeper who commands his area or sweeps so there’s a massive gap between our centre-backs and keeper.

I haven’t said we will be more compact, I’ve said that’s what I would like to see. The point was we’re having to play so open and commit so many players forward because we haven’t got a natural striker who can sniff out chances and take them. Other teams can be more conservative with their players because they have that quality up front.

Firmino had two chances last night when he received the ball in the box but his first touch let him down on both occasions, a ‘Kane’, ‘Aguero’ or ‘Costa’ would have taken at least one of those, we didn’t so had to continue to attack in numbers. There’s an old adage in football that a team is only as good as its striker, a great striker can carry a poor team.

I don't disagree with any of that.

The only part I disagreed with you was saying Matip & Lovren are good enough due to those stats, as I think the sample size is too small to draw conclusions and my eyes have seen both make far too many errors.  Matip deserves more time and could be with the right partner.  Lovren I think should be running out of time given he's been here and a regular during all of those three seasons where we keep conceding too many.  Which is why I have had enough of Mignolet as well (another thing we can agree on).

I think we agree on the main.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I'm all for signing a more clinical striker, who compliments the rest of our attack - and it will help us.

I am just not convinced Klopp will change his tactics as a result.

If we had Lacazette leading the line last night, I still think he would have allowed Vardy all that space to run in behind. 

I don't know if he would change his tactics but I think a player of Lacazette's ilk and a player of Rondon's ilk would certainly give him the option to. A player with Lacazette's pace in behind gives us a better option to soak pressure and counter-attack than Firmino. And a player with Rondon's strength gives us a better option to soak pressure and go more direct, moving up the pitch as he holds onto the ball. I'm not saying he would do either on a regular basis, nor would I want us to. But there have been occasions like City at home where he has shown he is willing to adapt. I think we need to adapt more often away from home because, without looking at the stats, our record away from Anfield doesn't feel very good under Klopp at all.

For me we have to play a very specific type of game to get the absolute best out of Firmino and in turn us as a team. We have to defend high as a team in order to support his high press, and constantly have players moving ahead of him off the ball, all of which is tiring. On its day it has worked brilliantly. And given the lack of quality alternatives I completely understand Klopp persevering with it.

But there's been too many dark days now to go into next season without at least one quality alternative, preferably two.

[Suareznumber7]

When Rodgers played Can Centre back there was criticism. Klopp shouldn't be immune to it. I just don't see why we are in a position where Lucas is seen as the best option.

I think Emre Can could actually be a really good center back for us. 

[joe ®]

I think Emre Can could actually be a really good center back for us.

As long as he doesn't have to actually defend, right?

[mrantarctica]

The goalkeeper situation should have been resolved in the summer. Position needs upgrading in the summer.

Whoever plays centre-back are brutally exposed by the system we’re playing, Both full-backs pushed up as wingers and no DM is why we’re leaking goals all over the place. Beyond Lovren and Matip we have no quality back-up

Midfield is far too open, no specialist DM and two attacking midfielders who spend most of their time in forward positions.

Firmino up front is simply not working. He’s scored in six games this season which is awful from your first choice ‘forward’.

We basically have a squad of around 13/14 players that Klopp seems to rate and they’ve been run into the ground, you cannot expect to get performances out of the same, small group of players all season. Our bench last night was a joke and Ben Woodburn coming on last night when we’re chasing the game makes a mockery of the ‘no-one good enough out there available’ over the winter.

The top teams set-up more balanced and have proper defensive midfielders because they have strikers who score loads and are clinical.  We have to play too open and attacking because our forwards either don’t score enough or aren’t clinical enough.

A lot of decent points. Depressing to read just how much work needs to be done to recruit the right players. Many of our players were overhyped due to our form. I think the likes of Hendo, Coutinho, Lallana, Firmino and Mane can be really good - but only if they are put in a team which has a few world class players in it (e.g. Suarez's, Gerrards, Alonso's in their prime)

A top class GK, CB, Fullback, DM, CM, Winger, Striker is what the side seems to need. That's going to be difficult to achieve in 1 window. I hope we give Klopp enough time but also the backing to go out and do what is necessary.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I think Emre Can could actually be a really good center back for us.

He has the physical attributes but not the mental ones, as we saw last night for the third goal when he made no real challenge on a player considerably smaller and weaker than him.

[JG6]

Very debatable that those two are quality as well.  Especially in Lovren's case.

Matip is making plenty of errors himself as well.

Virgil van Dijk should be our top priority this summer.  A top class CB, who has the speed to play in a high line, is very good on the ball, won't be bullied and is at the right age to deliver now and for the next 5+ years.  Then maybe a Matip could look more impressive alongside him.  I don't think Matip is the leader we hoped he'd be at the back.  Lucas was taking more responsibility than he was last night, which shouldn't be the case given his size.

I completely agree with this - people seem to have judged Matip way too early off the back of some promising early season performances but I actually think he has been very poor of late. I think we jumped to laud him because he's better than what we had (Skrtel) but if you look closely at how he's played recently, he has been far from impressive.