Author Topic: Liverpool's Midfield  (Read 1713317 times)

Offline groove

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19360 on: July 23, 2023, 01:03:59 pm »
Yes, to an extent, but I think Klopp went too far with that idea. To me, there was always still room, even with such attacking fullbacks, to play a more offensive midfield.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19361 on: July 23, 2023, 01:14:42 pm »
Yes, to an extent, but I think Klopp went too far with that idea. To me, there was always still room, even with such attacking fullbacks, to play a more offensive midfield.
we have that tradition for sure - Willie Stevenson had a hell of a mouth on him.

Offline groove

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19362 on: July 23, 2023, 01:15:40 pm »
 ;D

Offline jackh

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19363 on: July 23, 2023, 02:54:56 pm »
Haven't been on here much the last few week (and only half-watched Tuesday's match), so apologies if I'm repeating discussion points...

I know it's often not worth reading too much into friendlies, but it seemed unusual to me that we started Trent as one of the starting midfield trio. It's not the long-term wing-back slot we've become familiar with him taking, nor was it the inverted full-back role he played during the end of last season.

Was talking to a mate on Friday who was saying about it being Robertson who's position is under threat - an argument I understand based on the system we ended last season with (sacrificing the freedom of a left-back to allow the right-back to drift into central midfield. But we didn't play anything like that last week did we? Particularly odd given the small number of friendlies we have scheduled.

Offline Alf

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19364 on: July 23, 2023, 04:54:08 pm »
I think if Fabinho & Henderson go then we'll need to bring in at least 1 more midfielder, possibly 2 dependant on what happens with Trent. I wasn't concerned about Keita, Milner & Oxlade-Chamberlain going but in terms of game time it put a lots of pressure on the new signings, Bajcetic, Elliot & Jones with Thiago's injury record.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19365 on: July 23, 2023, 05:06:10 pm »

Assuming Hendo and Fab go, that's super light. Even if we class Trent in this midfield, it's light. We're going to pick up injuries too.

Mac Allister
Szoboszlai
Thiago
Jones
Bajcetic

Surely surely got to be two new faces if those two go. There were calls for a number 6 anyhow, but surely got to be an established 6 and one more. Lavia looks fine, but that means two players in Lavia and Bajcetic vying for that spot where you want to give them minutes...but would you throw them in vs City?

For me, I'd go a more established 6, Bajcetic as understudy, then one more utility midfielder.
It looks to me as if we have signed another 'average' player. I'll hold back my complete opinion until I see the lad play

Offline jsl2000

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19366 on: July 23, 2023, 05:41:03 pm »
Assuming Hendo and Fab go, that's super light. Even if we class Trent in this midfield, it's light. We're going to pick up injuries too.

Mac Allister
Szoboszlai
Thiago
Jones
Bajcetic

Surely surely got to be two new faces if those two go. There were calls for a number 6 anyhow, but surely got to be an established 6 and one more. Lavia looks fine, but that means two players in Lavia and Bajcetic vying for that spot where you want to give them minutes...but would you throw them in vs City?

For me, I'd go a more established 6, Bajcetic as understudy, then one more utility midfielder.

you've missed Elliot off that list and there's no point counting thiago he's almost permanently injured.  i do agree that 2 more will help though. 

Offline Knight

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19367 on: July 23, 2023, 09:21:40 pm »
Yes, to an extent, but I think Klopp went too far with that idea. To me, there was always still room, even with such attacking fullbacks, to play a more offensive midfield.

I dunno, when our midfield was still able to run it worked pretty well. I do think we started pushing more and more players beyond the ball, and got more brittle as a result when countered, at just the point several of the midfielders were beginning to decline physically. I wonder if a lack of technical ability from midfield forced us into weird tactical decisions with Trent and Henderson's position too. We were playing Henderson as an attacking 8 against low blocks when he couldn't play in tight spaces or receive on the half turn... not ideal.

Offline Fromola

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19368 on: July 23, 2023, 09:47:29 pm »
Yes, to an extent, but I think Klopp went too far with that idea. To me, there was always still room, even with such attacking fullbacks, to play a more offensive midfield.

He signed Thiago once Keita and Ox were a bust. All 3 were massively injury prone though.

Then he started 21/22 with Elliott in midfield until he had that ankle break at Leeds.

The 18/19 and 19/20 teams were perfectly balanced though.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2023, 09:54:16 pm by Fromola »
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline Asam

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19369 on: July 27, 2023, 01:18:38 pm »


How many goals do you expect to come from midfield this season vs previous years? we have much more threat from midfield this season than from any time i can remember

Offline Larse

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19370 on: July 27, 2023, 01:29:11 pm »

How many goals do you expect to come from midfield this season vs previous years? we have much more threat from midfield this season than from any time i can remember

Does really depend on how we play. Box midfield with 8s pushing up and I can see lots of goals. Jones scored 3/10 since we changed to the Box midfield. Will probably not work over a whole season but playing in the position he played at the end of the season I can see him score 10 next season.

Also depends on wholl take penalties.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19371 on: July 27, 2023, 01:29:33 pm »

How many goals do you expect to come from midfield this season vs previous years? we have much more threat from midfield this season than from any time i can remember

Do you have numbers for the last few seasons to compare?

All I do know is more than last season and that Henderson, Fabinho scored none and Thiago has hardly scored for us   2/3  I believe

I am also hoping more from set pieces this season  Mac Allister (10 goals) Szabo (6 goals) both  scored a few for their clubs  and also in the assist column which will be just as important in my book

Offline paisley1977

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19372 on: July 27, 2023, 01:35:32 pm »

How many goals do you expect to come from midfield this season vs previous years? we have much more threat from midfield this season than from any time i can remember

With adding Gary Mac who scored 10 goals last season and Dominic who had 6 goals last season. I think our goal tally will be much better from our midfield this season.
Our midfield players last season contributed 4 goals one from Elliot who I don't consider been a midfielder my opinion. Three from Jones which came about late on in the season when our form picked up. And one from Stefan against Villa.
I've been here during the bad times,we finished second once.

Offline Asam

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19373 on: July 27, 2023, 01:59:36 pm »
With adding Gary Mac who scored 10 goals last season and Dominic who had 6 goals last season. I think our goal tally will be much better from our midfield this season.
Our midfield players last season contributed 4 goals one from Elliot who I don't consider been a midfielder my opinion. Three from Jones which came about late on in the season when our form picked up. And one from Stefan against Villa.

The potential to score from midfield is there this season, I donít think any of our midfielders will score 10 or get close to it but if we can get 15 goals from midfield overall that would be a great return since last season it was less than 10

the fact that we have more potency should also create a bit more space for our forwards, we will definitely be fun to watch in an attacking sense

Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19374 on: July 27, 2023, 02:13:18 pm »
With adding Gary Mac who scored 10 goals last season and Dominic who had 6 goals last season. I think our goal tally will be much better from our midfield this season.
Our midfield players last season contributed 4 goals one from Elliot who I don't consider been a midfielder my opinion. Three from Jones which came about late on in the season when our form picked up. And one from Stefan against Villa.
Mac Allister's were mostly penalties and you'd imagine Mo will still be on penalty duty. Apparently his shooting is awful, and we've seen him sky one in pre-season already. Having said that, he's been getting into some good positions in the box in pre-season and I wonder if he'll get more chances than he did at Brighton. With Szoboszlai we finally have someone who is a threat from range which is refreshing.

Offline Asam

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19375 on: July 27, 2023, 02:21:53 pm »
Mac Allister's were mostly penalties and you'd imagine Mo will still be on penalty duty. Apparently his shooting is awful, and we've seen him sky one in pre-season already. Having said that, he's been getting into some good positions in the box in pre-season and I wonder if he'll get more chances than he did at Brighton. With Szoboszlai we finally have someone who is a threat from range which is refreshing.

if he was a bad shooter he wouldnít be on penalties for his team would he?

Offline Knight

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19376 on: July 27, 2023, 02:26:39 pm »
With a box midfield we should be looking for at least 15 from midfielders I reckon.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19377 on: July 27, 2023, 02:28:02 pm »
To make a complete midfield transition in one window and still challenge? Is it possible?


Milner, Henderson, Fabinho, Keita, Ox. Thatís many at the same time.

Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19378 on: July 27, 2023, 02:28:40 pm »
if he was a bad shooter he wouldnít be on penalties for his team would he?
You can be good at penalties but bad at shooting from range.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19379 on: July 27, 2023, 02:34:02 pm »
With a box midfield we should be looking for at least 15 from midfielders I reckon.

Thatís probably more than what we will end up with but a good target

Offline newterp

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19380 on: July 27, 2023, 02:39:27 pm »
Milner's legs weren't up to it anymore, it was the right time for him to go.

I don't see why people aren't willing to admit this. Milner was really bad last season.

Great presence and mentor - but no point in having him take a squad spot every game.

Offline Barrow Shaun

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19381 on: July 27, 2023, 02:41:28 pm »
Weird isn't it. We all knew we needed a stronger midfield and even though we've splashed out on two lads I'm probably equally (if not more) as worried as last season.
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Offline Asam

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19382 on: July 27, 2023, 03:25:05 pm »
Weird isn't it. We all knew we needed a stronger midfield and even though we've splashed out on two lads I'm probably equally (if not more) as worried as last season.

Iím not worried about the midfield at all, we could put out MacAllister, Trent, Jones and Elliott who are all young, mobile and with premier league experience

The defence on the other hand is really concerning

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19383 on: July 27, 2023, 03:32:59 pm »
To make a complete midfield transition in one window and still challenge? Is it possible?


Milner, Henderson, Fabinho, Keita, Ox. Thatís many at the same time.

True, but given that two of them hardly played, one mostly appeared as a sub, and Henderson was in and out towards the end the impact won't a major problem. Losing maturity and experience though will be an issue.

Offline Red Bird

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19384 on: July 27, 2023, 03:54:59 pm »
To make a complete midfield transition in one window and still challenge? Is it possible?


Milner, Henderson, Fabinho, Keita, Ox. Thatís many at the same time.
Youíre forgetting how dreadful we were last season until, in desperation as much as anything else, we played sprogs in Bajčetić and, later, Jones. Concerns about losing Fabinho and Henderson at the same time apply to two seasons ago, maybe even earlier than that. It was a ruthless decision that needed to be taken and now can go again.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2023, 03:58:05 pm by Red Bird »

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19385 on: July 27, 2023, 03:57:49 pm »
To make a complete midfield transition in one window and still challenge? Is it possible?


Milner, Henderson, Fabinho, Keita, Ox. Thatís many at the same time.

Probably not but its a good thing we have done and gives us the chance to progress.

Offline mullyred94

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19386 on: July 27, 2023, 04:00:04 pm »
Cry for a new midfield, get one and not happy  ;D

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19387 on: July 27, 2023, 04:06:25 pm »
Probably not but its a good thing we have done and gives us the chance to progress.
Yep. We can't really be much worse than last year, and we will blood in the new lads.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19388 on: July 27, 2023, 04:43:31 pm »
if he was a bad shooter he wouldnít be on penalties for his team would he?
millie never missed a pen for us but shooting from distance was poor.  2 totally different skillsets really.

edit: Clint beat me to the draw.

Offline Knight

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19389 on: July 27, 2023, 05:10:16 pm »
Cry for a new midfield, get one and not happy  ;D

Huh? Those most negative about our midfield have been most positive about this clear out.

Numbers are an issue at the moment but one more (Lavia) gives us 7 and none of them, with the exception of Thiago, are definitely injury prone so I think thatís probably enough. Quality wise, even with a very fallow 6, itís light years ahead of last season. If Thiago could stay fit for a decent portion of the season and we found a way to make him as a sole 6 work weíd be laughing. So Iím definitely not worried about the midfield, assuming we do get at least one more in. The massive worry is defence with injury prone and not good enough players making up the majority of our 4 senior options. We simply have to be active in the market or weíre asking for the same sort of trouble we had in 20/21 and 22/23.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2023, 05:13:53 pm by Knight »

Offline Raaphael

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19390 on: July 27, 2023, 05:28:18 pm »
Is next seasonís team a team ready for winning the league and the CL the season after. Thatís the goal post.

Offline SamLad

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19391 on: July 27, 2023, 05:30:42 pm »
Is next seasonís team a team ready for winning the league and the CL the season after. Thatís the goal post.
impossible to answer since we don't yet know what next season's team is.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19392 on: July 27, 2023, 05:36:06 pm »
impossible to answer since we don't yet know what next season's team is.

It's starting to take shape though.

Szoboszlai / Jones / Thiago - Mac Allister / Elliot

Lavia / ?? - Trent-AA / Bajcetic

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19393 on: July 27, 2023, 05:41:38 pm »
Is next seasonís team a team ready for winning the league and the CL the season after. Thatís the goal post.

Is the defence the cross bar? ;D

Offline Paul1611

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19394 on: July 27, 2023, 05:46:32 pm »
Just reading Pep Ljinders book Ďintensityí and he makes many references to the number 6 being the most important position.  Surely we have something up our sleeve apart from Lavia?

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19395 on: July 27, 2023, 05:50:44 pm »
Lavia as #6 makes sense if we are trying to rebuild and challenge for the league in a few seasons. He and/or Bajectic have the potential to be elite defensive midfielders. We won't be in that convo next season though as they are both young and will need some experience to play that role.

I think we can and should still get top 4 next season with what we have as long as the new arrivals settle in.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19396 on: July 27, 2023, 05:55:27 pm »
Yep. We screwed up the rebuild really badly which means weíre aiming to be back in the CL rather than being back in the title race. When you have that perspective a player like Lavia makes more sense.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19397 on: July 27, 2023, 06:01:01 pm »
Just reading Pep Ljinders book Ďintensityí and he makes many references to the number 6 being the most important position.  Surely we have something up our sleeve apart from Lavia?

Isn't this the same book where he chats about Fabinho being called Lighthouse and hover, yet last year played like he had no power..

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19398 on: July 27, 2023, 06:19:14 pm »
Isn't this the same book where he chats about Fabinho being called Lighthouse and hover, yet last year played like he had no power..
not sure what your point is?  Pep is no good coz he's not psychic?

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19399 on: July 27, 2023, 06:28:00 pm »
not sure what your point is?  Pep is no good coz he's not psychic?

The point is times change.