Author Topic: Liverpool's Midfield  (Read 1786566 times)

Offline Simplexity

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19320 on: July 15, 2023, 01:18:24 pm »
I am over the moon with this honestly. I was resigned to a couple of years of having to drag the old timers with us till their contracts eventually expire. Keep cutting I say.

Offline Schmarn

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19321 on: July 15, 2023, 01:26:06 pm »
Maybe I'm greedy but I still want at least one more in yet and if it's only to be one then someone with a brilliant engine who can play defence and defensive midfield.

Not greedy, it’s common sense. We are woefully thin in midfield assuming Fab and Hendo leave and unless we get one or two more we will end up flogging and injuring our best 3.

Mac and Szobo were replacements for Naby, Ox and the reality of an ageing midfield. The news of Fab and Hendo going means we have to bring more in. We can’t just play Mac, Szobo and Curtis for every game.

Offline Barrow Shaun

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19322 on: July 15, 2023, 01:30:28 pm »
Not greedy, it’s common sense. We are woefully thin in midfield assuming Fab and Hendo leave and unless we get one or two more we will end up flogging and injuring our best 3.

Mac and Szobo were replacements for Naby, Ox and the reality of an ageing midfield. The news of Fab and Hendo going means we have to bring more in. We can’t just play Mac, Szobo and Curtis for every game.

Right now reminds me a bit of that Summer when Houllier did an overhaul and brought shitloads in. I feel we need a mini-version of that. (I think it was Hyypia, Westerveld, Smicer, Henchoz..... memory fails me, so struggling to think of others. )
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19323 on: July 15, 2023, 01:39:57 pm »
Right now reminds me a bit of that Summer when Houllier did an overhaul and brought shitloads in. I feel we need a mini-version of that. (I think it was Hyypia, Westerveld, Smicer, Henchoz..... memory fails me, so struggling to think of others. )
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Offline Livbes

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19324 on: July 15, 2023, 01:42:08 pm »
Maybe I'm greedy but I still want at least one more in yet and if it's only to be one then someone with a brilliant engine who can play defence and defensive midfield.

That’s not greedy! I want 3 more. It’s light as fuck and it will be another tight arsed, negligent summer.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19325 on: July 15, 2023, 01:58:01 pm »
Unique opportunity available to us now. Best thing is that out of the old guard, its likely we keep a hold of the best one of those.

Offline Barrow Shaun

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19326 on: July 15, 2023, 02:13:19 pm »
Titi Camara ;D ;D ;D ;D
Heskey
Hamann
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Pretty sure Heskey came separately, later, not in that 7/8 player splurge I mean.

edit: Think Hamann was a separate one too.
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Offline BoRed

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19327 on: July 15, 2023, 02:41:22 pm »
Milner
Fabinho
Henderson
Carvalho
keita
Oxlade
Jones
Mac Callister
Szoboszlai
Elliot
Thiago?

Ummmm…



I think Bajcetic will play a lot if he stays fit.

Offline Titi Camara

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19328 on: July 15, 2023, 02:51:29 pm »
Pretty sure Heskey came separately, later, not in that 7/8 player splurge I mean.

edit: Think Hamann was a separate one too.
Oh was Heskey the winter winter? Seem to recall being at uni when the story broke.

Offline Barrow Shaun

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19329 on: July 15, 2023, 03:02:26 pm »
Oh was Heskey the winter winter? Seem to recall being at uni when the story broke.

Honestly can't remember now, same with Hamann...but gut feeling says they were'nt part of that Hyypia, Westerveld, Camarra, Dundee (I think), Henchoz, Meijer......etc, blast.
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Offline Fromola

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19330 on: July 15, 2023, 03:07:56 pm »
I am over the moon with this honestly. I was resigned to a couple of years of having to drag the old timers with us till their contracts eventually expire. Keep cutting I say.

Yeah, it should have been done a lot more incrementally and rebuilt much earlier but it is time now. Just got to get the right players in and hope the likes of Jones progress and stay fit this season.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

Offline disgraced cake

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19331 on: July 15, 2023, 03:21:44 pm »
Not 100% sure yet if Henderson leaves but to be honest wasn't particularly looking forward to him seeing out the last two years of his deal here. Don't mean to disrespect a legend and all that but the last couple of years has been some decline. I said it in the transfer thread the other day, would have been alright with him doing another year and then either moving him on or just letting him see the last year out, but it would be a performance related decision judged on 2023/24. Couldn't be having another crap season then staying due to sympathy or just the ease of not having to replace him in the market. The whole episode has been a bit sour and speaking honestly he already feels gone to me, hope we can agree a fair deal now.

Fabinho would be a harder decision for me, if they were offering 20/25 million and not wanting to go higher, I'd keep. 40 is excellent money given he's 30 soon and seems to have lost mobility in the prime of his career. Fucking typical. Hell of a signing though and one of the best defensive minded midfielders we've ever had.
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Offline Titi Camara

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19332 on: July 15, 2023, 03:54:45 pm »
Ok that's another thread highjacked. Over to the transfer thread, cheers :wave

Offline tubby

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19333 on: July 20, 2023, 12:03:31 pm »
You know what was weird yesterday?  Seeing every single one of our midfield players being able to receive the ball on the half turn and move it around with quick interchanges.
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Offline Draex

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19334 on: July 20, 2023, 12:05:45 pm »
You know what was weird yesterday?  Seeing every single one of our midfield players being able to receive the ball on the half turn and move it around with quick interchanges.

I also really liked them busting a gut to track runners.

Offline redmark

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19335 on: July 20, 2023, 12:07:53 pm »
Maybe I'm greedy but I still want at least one more in yet and if it's only to be one then someone with a brilliant engine who can play defence and defensive midfield.
One is entirely reasonable. Two is definitely justifiable. Three (I've seen plenty on twitter) is probably pushing it a touch, but maybe depends on the profile of the main '6'.
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Offline RedForeverTT

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19336 on: July 20, 2023, 12:23:29 pm »
Not 100% sure yet if Henderson leaves but to be honest wasn't particularly looking forward to him seeing out the last two years of his deal here. Don't mean to disrespect a legend and all that but the last couple of years has been some decline. I said it in the transfer thread the other day, would have been alright with him doing another year and then either moving him on or just letting him see the last year out, but it would be a performance related decision judged on 2023/24. Couldn't be having another crap season then staying due to sympathy or just the ease of not having to replace him in the market. The whole episode has been a bit sour and speaking honestly he already feels gone to me, hope we can agree a fair deal now.

Fabinho would be a harder decision for me, if they were offering 20/25 million and not wanting to go higher, I'd keep. 40 is excellent money given he's 30 soon and seems to have lost mobility in the prime of his career. Fucking typical. Hell of a signing though and one of the best defensive minded midfielders we've ever had.

I find Fabinho isn't the same player last season. He has two good games in 3 and really not in the best place to take us forward so for someone to give £40m is fair value but not fantastic.

The long term implication is how to keep hold of Gakpo and Diaz when Saudis come offering 30m per year wages to these players. Anyone would get their head turned.

Offline Stevo

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19337 on: July 20, 2023, 12:52:16 pm »
Honestly can't remember now, same with Hamann...but gut feeling says they were'nt part of that Hyypia, Westerveld, Camarra, Dundee (I think), Henchoz, Meijer......etc, blast.

Didi signed in the summer with Hyypia, Henchoz, Smicer et al. That was a brilliant summer, I remember being so excited that we’d spent £26m! Seemed a fortune then.

Heskey came in March the following year when there was the later transfer window.

Seem to recall our summer of 2000 was also quite busy: Ziege, Barmby, McAllister, Diomede, Arphexad, Babbel and then later Biscan and Litmanen. Worked out quite well that season too

Offline dutchkop

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19338 on: July 20, 2023, 01:06:02 pm »
Didi signed in the summer with Hyypia, Henchoz, Smicer et al. That was a brilliant summer, I remember being so excited that we’d spent £26m! Seemed a fortune then.

Heskey came in March the following year when there was the later transfer window.

Seem to recall our summer of 2000 was also quite busy: Ziege, Barmby, McAllister, Diomede, Arphexad, Babbel and then later Biscan and Litmanen. Worked out quite well that season too

that was some serious scouting and transfer deals in a short time too

Out
England David James - England Aston Villa, 23 June, £1,800,000
England Steve McManaman - Spain Real Madrid, 1 July, free
France Jean-Michel Ferri - France Sochaux, 14 July, £1,500,000
England Tony Warner - England Millwall, 17 July, free
England Jamie Cassidy - England Cambridge United, 22 July, free
South Africa Sean Dundee[notes 5] - Germany Stuttgart, 30 July, £1,000,000
England Paul Ince - England Middlesbrough, 30 July, £1,000,000
Norway Øyvind Leonhardsen - England Tottenham Hotspur, 6 August, £3,000,000
Norway Bjørn Tore Kvarme - France Saint-Étienne, 30 August, £1,000,000
Germany Karl-Heinz Riedle - England Fulham, 28 September, £200,000
England Ian Dunbavin - England Shrewsbury Town, 22 January, free
Wales Eifion Jones - England Blackpool, 23 March, free
England Rob Jones - England West Ham United, free, 24 July

Offline Aldo1988

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19339 on: July 20, 2023, 01:46:38 pm »
that was some serious scouting and transfer deals in a short time too

Out
England David James - England Aston Villa, 23 June, £1,800,000
England Steve McManaman - Spain Real Madrid, 1 July, free
France Jean-Michel Ferri - France Sochaux, 14 July, £1,500,000
England Tony Warner - England Millwall, 17 July, free
England Jamie Cassidy - England Cambridge United, 22 July, free
South Africa Sean Dundee[notes 5] - Germany Stuttgart, 30 July, £1,000,000
England Paul Ince - England Middlesbrough, 30 July, £1,000,000
Norway Øyvind Leonhardsen - England Tottenham Hotspur, 6 August, £3,000,000
Norway Bjørn Tore Kvarme - France Saint-Étienne, 30 August, £1,000,000
Germany Karl-Heinz Riedle - England Fulham, 28 September, £200,000
England Ian Dunbavin - England Shrewsbury Town, 22 January, free
Wales Eifion Jones - England Blackpool, 23 March, free
England Rob Jones - England West Ham United, free, 24 July

How the hell did we get that much for Ferri, Dundee and Kvarme???
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Offline mattD

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19340 on: July 20, 2023, 05:48:20 pm »
Who sanctioned the signing of Melo? This isn't a dig at the player himself but rather our recruitment strategy. It's worrying that we still have a tendency to opt for pointless inadequate signings (e.g. Caulker or Davies) when desperately needing quality in that position. It does us no good and merely wastes wages.

Offline Fromola

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19341 on: July 20, 2023, 06:47:13 pm »
Who sanctioned the signing of Melo? This isn't a dig at the player himself but rather our recruitment strategy. It's worrying that we still have a tendency to opt for pointless inadequate signings (e.g. Caulker or Davies) when desperately needing quality in that position. It does us no good and merely wastes wages.

It was just a last minute panic. We'd justified not signing a midfielder by saying we wouldn't sign someone for the sake of signing someone and that's exactly what we did. Melo was just a number to cover for the fact that Henderson had got injured days before the deadline with Thiago, Ox, Jones and Keita out long term.

What was odd was Zakaria was available on loan from Juventus, who may have actually made some difference last season - if we wouldn't spend money.

We should have just put an acceptable bid in for Caicedo in the closing days of the window but FSG are too conservative and regimented to change strategy, so we always end up with last minute panicked loans.
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Offline Kop Kenny

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19342 on: July 20, 2023, 07:34:01 pm »
Milner
Fabinho
Henderson
Carvalho
keita
Oxlade
Jones
Mac Callister
Szoboszlai
Elliot
Thiago?

Ummmm…


That's 6 gone plus that Arthur bloke no one ever saw so we need at least 4 more bringing in or we are walking an injury tightrope again. The new recruits look great but they are not enough to get us back to the CL
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Offline Bennett

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19343 on: July 20, 2023, 07:35:39 pm »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_3xAgKmjao&ab_channel=TifoIRL

Good video from tifo.

Convinced me on Amrabat. Go get him.

Offline Fromola

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19344 on: July 20, 2023, 07:39:46 pm »
I also really liked them busting a gut to track runners.

I don't think we can afford to carry anyone now. Funnily enough with Henderson in his prime we could a bit because he'd cover so much ground (i.e. Gerrard in 13/14), but we can't carry him (or Fabinho). 

If everyone is mobile, athletic and able to press and track runners then it can be a collective work and less falls on the DM to put out all the fires. We still need 2 in if they both go, but that's the profile of player you want to fit into that.
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Offline mrantarctica

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19345 on: July 20, 2023, 07:43:12 pm »
That's 6 gone plus that Arthur bloke no one ever saw so we need at least 4 more bringing in or we are walking an injury tightrope again. The new recruits look great but they are not enough to get us back to the CL

I think if we got a bona fide No. 6 and possible one more in we'd probably be OK. 7-8 midfielders covering 3 positions isn't bad.

Mac              DM         Szoboszlai
Harvey       Bajcetic    Thiago/Curtis

Offline mullyred94

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19346 on: July 20, 2023, 07:52:09 pm »
Any chance Morton breaks into the squad once his injury is 100 % or another loan ?

Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19347 on: July 20, 2023, 09:04:47 pm »
We will have a brand new shiny midfield whilst our old midfield is rusting in the desert
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Offline Carra-ton

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19348 on: July 23, 2023, 05:10:21 am »
I think Bajcetic will definitely play. He looks much better strength wise in the pre-season pics. They have bulked him up a bit. I would prefer Bajcetic and Lavia as the 6 options. We may not win the league this season, but we will be better for it in a couple of years. Whereas if you bring someone in like a Doucoure, Sangare or Amrabat. There is a limited ceiling there.
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Offline GreatEx

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19349 on: July 23, 2023, 07:33:33 am »
We all know Jurgen doesn't mind trusting young players, it's a hallmark of his career. The idea we'd sign mediocre veterans because we fear that a youngster with massive upside may not be ready yet is just a projection of our own cowardice. I hope. :D
« Last Edit: July 23, 2023, 09:13:31 am by GreatEx »

Offline RedG13

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19350 on: July 23, 2023, 08:46:52 am »
We all know Jurgen doesn't mind trusting young players, it's a hallmark of his career. The idea we'd sign mediocre veterans because we fear that a youngster with massive upside may not be ready yet is just a projection of our own confidence. I hope. :D
He trust giving minutes to young players but also need a balance with prime age players.
Klopp signed nobody to block Trent. Same thing with Jones and Elliott. I know Mac Allister and Szoboszlai both play similar roles but In the MF you need more then 2, so I just view it as addition to them.
Also Looks like nobody being brought to block Clark, Doak or Gordon(assuming he can get his career back on track),Currently Probably just depends on their progress and Salah(for Doak and Gordon more)
Yea I think a 6 is going be brought but it more in addition too Bajcetic instead of blocking him per say.
I know Bradley, Chambers and Van den Berg all have been sent on loan. Not saying they dont have a future possibly with the club but Defenders generally need Minutes, that hard to give with limited rotation and basically being 2 deep. Much easier to bring along MF and Attackers where can get cup minutes and bench minutes at times. Full backs might get subbed a little more now but CBs generally dont.
Elliott went on loan at 17 he was too good for u21 then, and Was not going to get Liverpool minutes in MF that year but planned to have him for the next season and did.

Offline demain

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19351 on: July 23, 2023, 08:50:04 am »
Not giving Milner another year's extension seems like a mistake now to me.
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Offline Fromola

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19352 on: July 23, 2023, 08:50:17 am »
We all know Jurgen doesn't mind trusting young players, it's a hallmark of his career. The idea we'd sign mediocre veterans because we fear that a youngster with massive upside may not be ready yet is just a projection of our own confidence. I hope. :D

We're not signing a veteran or even linked to one. Someone like Amrabat at 26 still has his best years ahead of him, but you could get 2 or 3 good years out of him and move him on at 29-30 if you wish.
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Offline Fromola

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19353 on: July 23, 2023, 08:53:24 am »
Not giving Milner another year's extension seems like a mistake now to me.

Pure hindsight that though. Nobody expected Henderson to leave.

Personally i'd rather have kept Milner but when he signed the year before I said it can't be at the expense of signing someone; and effectively it was. We had to free up squad places to rebuild and would have banked on Fabinho and Henderson staying and had to get the average age down. Saudi Arabia couldn't have been foreseen.  I said the other week that the annoying thing about it for me is we'd have kept Milner if we'd have known.
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Offline tubby

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19354 on: July 23, 2023, 09:01:58 am »
Milner's legs weren't up to it anymore, it was the right time for him to go.
Sit down, shock is better taken with bent knees.

Offline RedSince86

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19355 on: July 23, 2023, 09:04:32 am »
This thread was a horrible read last season, was always bumped and stayed there.

Should be way more better atmosphere typing about Trent, Mac, Szobo and Lavia and how we are just crushing teams with pressing, quick transitions, control and creativity.

Hail our new Overlord midfield.
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Offline djschembri

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19356 on: July 23, 2023, 09:10:01 am »
Not giving Milner another year's extension seems like a mistake now to me.

Even with Henderson and Fabinho gone, it was still the right decision.
At some point in time, we have to move on. He was clearly struggling throughout all of last season to keep up with the pace of the games.

Offline sushared

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19357 on: July 23, 2023, 09:11:09 am »
we need atleast one more No.6 and Thiago stays for this year. Bajcetic alone cannot carry the load of a entire season. the number 6 we buy should be experienced. it cannot be someone like Lavia, who was the star because of the mediocre around him. we should look for someone in Fabinho mode when he joined us, arnd 26 yrs, had the legs and energy to be part of a amazing midfield.

another aspect which we should look is durability. the Liverpool team which won the Champions league/league had some supremely fit players who hardly broke down, egs. being Salah, Mane, Wijnaldum etc. can we get someone like that in the engine room.  no names are coming to mind. is there someone like that available. if say Thuram fits into that kind then we should go for him, we could get the best of 4-5 yrs from him.

Offline groove

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19358 on: July 23, 2023, 11:21:00 am »
I've thought for a long time that the conservatism of Fabinho and Henderson have held us back in comparison to having De Bruyne and Silva/Gundogan. It's the area where we fell behind City. And it's why, for me, Keita's situation was especially frustrating. Much more positive looking at this midfield going into next season, with the creativity and the forward-thinking that Trent, Mac Allister and Szoboszlai can bring. Both Mac Allister and Szoboszlai averaged over 2 shots per 90 last season and I wouldn't be surprised if Trent is in that ballpark when playing midfield. Comparatively Henderson, Thiago and Fabinho all average less than 1.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2023, 11:23:15 am by groove »

Offline Chris~

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #19359 on: July 23, 2023, 12:24:15 pm »
City could get away with Silva/Gundogan/De Bruyne as a combo in midfield in part because they had effectively 3, now usually 4 centre backs on the pitch. We had (needed) a more conservative midfield because we had brilliant full backs providing a lot more creativity.