Topic: Never mind 'Stop the Boats' - STOP THE TORIES

[redtel]

Why’s she even been given the platform to speak? She should be viewed by all and sundry as a laughing stock. Forget about what she’s saying, who’s letting her have her say, and why?

Someone who wants to outdo you Nick for laughs.

I read her comeback piece early this morning and found myself laughing at each paragraph as her finger pointed at more and more people and departments for downing her brilliant ideas and policies.

Don’t worry though, your one liners will outlive her attempt to make us all 😂

[Riquende]

I assume Sunak can choose to sack her if he so wished?

Leaders can't sack MPs, as they've been voted into parliament by their constituencies, not appointed by the party (it's this system that means we don't get byelections when MPs quit the party of their own accord).

The most the Tories could do is withdraw the whip, but that's only done for disloyalty, of the MP has done something so shameful that it reflects badly on the party itself. Being generally useless isn't considered enough!

[Riquende]

The Torys are split, I think both sides know...

For what it's worth, I think there are more than two main 'sides' in the Tory party presently. You've got the current group of Sunak supporters (who may only back him because more mutinies in a single election cycle would look terrible), you've got Truss's low-tax zero-regulation 'growth at all costs' lot and you've got Johnson's "stoke culture wars and make any kind of promise to limp over the GE line and keep our seats" faction.

This is without factoring in smaller divisions such as the ERG kicking off over any threat to implement the NIP they voted for, as well as any possible remaining rump of sensible Tories who actually want a workable NI solution.

Because I sincerely believe the Tories see no difference between their party and the country, they are one and the same in their self-entitled, born to rule pig fucking minds.

One of the main apects of Right Wing thinking is that there a group of people who naturally 'should' be in power and making decisions (which is of course them) and everyone else who shouldn't. It's totally antithetical to their sense of how the world 'should' work that others get to tell them what to do (how much tax to pay, introduce laws they don't support, all that stuff).

The actual governance aspect is secondary to ensuring that the 'right' people are in charge. The trouble for them right now is that they are deeply divided on the best way to retain that power.

Ulimately this is what's driving Sunak's inaction on anything important, he can't be sure of support from the party. So all they focus on is the small boats issue, Ukraine, and trying to associate Labour with the strikes in general, and Starmer with Corbyn specifically.

[Circa1892]

Reading Truss back - a few things spring to mind beyond the fact she’s a fucking cretin.

1) A PM apppinted outside an election doesn’t need a new one to be PM. They absolutely do if they want to pursue a “mandate” seperate to their manifesto. It’s a horrible mixture of deluded and dangerous that the majority of the Tories believe their membership can give that. (Slightly different with Starmer dumping the Labour manifesto, or indeed Corbyn dumping Milibands as they were roundly rejected and ultimately make no difference to anything).

2) This talk of shadowy forces and mysterious establishments is as far-right a trope as you can possibly get. (And let’s not even get into what those tropes usually end up meaning)

[Father Ted]

The Tory Party and their backers are the establishment though, that’s what is so bizarre about it, and in recent years the likes of Mogg and Boris making out they’re rebellious outsiders taking on the system, rather than privately educated born-to-rule insiders.

Truss is possibly more of an outsider than those two given her comparatively humble background (by politician standards) but she got to be PM despite having no real clue what she was doing, so it’s obvious this shadowy establishment wasn’t fighting very hard to stop her - until she trashed the economy to the point the Bank of England had to step in to protect pension funds. That’s why she was booted out, because she fucked up catastrophically.

She just can’t accept that fact, or more likely is prepared to front it out in order to keep her worthless career going for awhile longer.

[killer-heels]

The Tory Party and their backers are the establishment though, that’s what is so bizarre about it, and in recent years the likes of Mogg and Boris making out they’re rebellious outsiders taking on the system, rather than privately educated born-to-rule insiders.

Truss is possibly more of an outsider than those two given her comparatively humble background (by politician standards) but she got to be PM despite having no real clue what she was doing, so it’s obvious this shadowy establishment wasn’t fighting very hard to stop her - until she trashed the economy to the point the Bank of England had to step in to protect pension funds. That’s why she was booted out, because she fucked up catastrophically.

She just can’t accept that fact, or more likely is prepared to front it out in order to keep her worthless career going for awhile longer.

This is a woman who has been humiliated at various stages throughout her life. If she has one quality (and i use the term quality loosely), its the ability to keep plowing on and keep coming back no matter how much she is shown up.

I was hoping she actually was suffering a lot as over the autumn there were articles stating that she was in a bad place personally due to the ridicule. But again, like a scum cockroach, she keeps crawling back.

That said, she is a laughing stock, so there is hopefully more humiliation for her round the corner.

[west_london_red]

This is a woman who has been humiliated at various stages throughout her life. If she has one quality (and i use the term quality loosely), its the ability to keep plowing on and keep coming back no matter how much she is shown up.

I was hoping she actually was suffering a lot as over the autumn there were articles stating that she was in a bad place personally due to the ridicule. But again, like a scum cockroach, she keeps crawling back.

That said, she is a laughing stock, so there is hopefully more humiliation for her round the corner.

She’s not coming back into frontline politics this side of a general election, she’ll do the rounds on Talk TV and GB News for a week or two and then people will get bored. After the election is another matter as she has a very, very safe seat and if a lot of the current known faces like Raab, Johnson get the boot she might make a reappearance I suspect in a shadow cabinet depending on whether defeat moves the Tories to the centre or further to the right.

[TSC]

She’s not coming back into frontline politics this side of a general election, she’ll do the rounds on Talk TV and GB News for a week or two and then people will get bored. After the election is another matter as she has a very, very safe seat and if a lot of the current known faces like Raab, Johnson get the boot she might make a reappearance I suspect in a shadow cabinet depending on whether defeat moves the Tories to the centre or further to the right.

Given she tonked the economy overnight alongside her nutjob chancellor I don’t know how safe her seat is anymore.

[west_london_red]

Given she tonked the economy overnight alongside her nutjob chancellor I don’t know how safe her seat is anymore.

I’d like to think you were right but her majority of 26k is probably safe as is probably my own local MP Kwasi Kwarteng with a similar majority. Our area isn’t particularly wealthy, or rural or any of the things you would assume makes an area very Tory but for some reason that’s what it is.

[kavah]

...she has a very, very safe seat...

Given she tonked the economy overnight alongside her nutjob chancellor I don’t know how safe her seat is anymore.

from Wiki:

SW Norfolk is a "Strong Right" seat characterised by socially conservative values and strong support for Brexit.

Those folks aren't voting Lib Dem or Labour anytime soon

[oldfordie]

For what it's worth, I think there are more than two main 'sides' in the Tory party presently. You've got the current group of Sunak supporters (who may only back him because more mutinies in a single election cycle would look terrible), you've got Truss's low-tax zero-regulation 'growth at all costs' lot and you've got Johnson's "stoke culture wars and make any kind of promise to limp over the GE line and keep our seats" faction.

This is without factoring in smaller divisions such as the ERG kicking off over any threat to implement the NIP they voted for, as well as any possible remaining rump of sensible Tories who actually want a workable NI solution.

One of the main apects of Right Wing thinking is that there a group of people who naturally 'should' be in power and making decisions (which is of course them) and everyone else who shouldn't. It's totally antithetical to their sense of how the world 'should' work that others get to tell them what to do (how much tax to pay, introduce laws they don't support, all that stuff).

The actual governance aspect is secondary to ensuring that the 'right' people are in charge. The trouble for them right now is that they are deeply divided on the best way to retain that power.

Ulimately this is what's driving Sunak's inaction on anything important, he can't be sure of support from the party. So all they focus on is the small boats issue, Ukraine, and trying to associate Labour with the strikes in general, and Starmer with Corbyn specifically.

Yeah, they are split but am talking about how they move forward after Truss destroying the Torys safe pair of hands, some MPs including the ERG want her to front it out and defend her tax cuts trickle down budget. others know it will never work as the public believe she is too blame.

[TSC]

from Wiki:

SW Norfolk is a "Strong Right" seat characterised by socially conservative values and strong support for Brexit.

Those folks aren't voting Lib Dem or Labour anytime soon

Probably not but some may be feeling the effects of the ongoing state of the country.  Then we have Johnson scraping about in search of a safe seat, as his current seat doesn’t appear too safe.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-allies-plotting-find-27594449

[Red Beret]

It's hard to be sure what IS a safe Tory seat right now. Some of those polls during the dingbat's ill fated reign pointed the Tories being almost completely wiped out.

Of course, that was never realistic, but the polls are hardly encouraging for them. Tories not bothering to vote at all may be as crucial as voters who switch.

[Dr. Beaker]

Vote Rishi - but who will be the PM in a year's time? Johnson? Truss?

Looking good for the GE.

[Sangria]

Vote Rishi - but who will be the PM in a year's time? Johnson? Truss?

Looking good for the GE.

Why next year? The latest the Tories can call an election is Jan 2025. They can easily fit another couple of PMs in during that time.

[Dr. Beaker]

Why next year? The latest the Tories can call an election is Jan 2025. They can easily fit another couple of PMs in during that time.

No, I'm saying, 'Vote Rishi - but who will be the PM in a year's time?' as an election slogan.

[Sangria]

No, I'm saying, 'Vote Rishi - but who will be the PM in a year's time?' as an election slogan.

Ah, That's a good one.

[Lusty]

Reading Truss back - a few things spring to mind beyond the fact she’s a fucking cretin.

1) A PM apppinted outside an election doesn’t need a new one to be PM. They absolutely do if they want to pursue a “mandate” seperate to their manifesto. It’s a horrible mixture of deluded and dangerous that the majority of the Tories believe their membership can give that. (Slightly different with Starmer dumping the Labour manifesto, or indeed Corbyn dumping Milibands as they were roundly rejected and ultimately make no difference to anything).

2) This talk of shadowy forces and mysterious establishments is as far-right a trope as you can possibly get. (And let’s not even get into what those tropes usually end up meaning)

This is the only bit I really care about. For the most part now she's just an amusing kind of non-entity we can just laugh at, with no chance of getting any power or influence anymore. Like the Tory version of Diane Abbott.

The 'shadowy elite' chat is dangerous though and we all know where that leads.

[west_london_red]

This is the only bit I really care about. For the most part now she's just an amusing kind of non-entity we can just laugh at, with no chance of getting any power or influence anymore. Like the Tory version of Diane Abbott.

The 'shadowy elite' chat is dangerous though and we all know where that leads.

She’s also a very useful attack line for Labour, next time they come out with the ‘you lot thought Corbyn should be PM’ the obvious retort back should be ‘you lot actually made Truss PM’, but unfortunately Labour do seem to play a bit too nicely for my liking so they probably won’t.

[Lusty]

She’s also a very useful attack line for Labour, next time they come out with the ‘you lot thought Corbyn should be PM’ the obvious retort back should be ‘you lot actually made Truss PM’, but unfortunately Labour do seem to play a bit too nicely for my liking so they probably won’t.

It's even better than that because she's still a member of the Tory party and it's not impossible that they might elect her as leader again. I don't know if there's a market for next leader of the opposition, but she should probably be among the favourites

[Riquende]

She’s also a very useful attack line for Labour, next time they come out with the ‘you lot thought Corbyn should be PM’ the obvious retort back should be ‘you lot actually made Truss PM’, but unfortunately Labour do seem to play a bit too nicely for my liking so they probably won’t.

I don't think it's useful at all - the majority of Tory MPs didn't vote for Truss, it was the members who put her in post. And unless they then took a job in her cabinet then they aren't that linked to her failure. Sunak repeats his pathetic lines about Corbyn because Starmer served in the Shadow cabinet under Corbyn through two GE campaigns (implictly approving him for the job of PM) - but there aren't many Tories that would be hurt by a similar attack. Sunak himself first ran against her directly and then just hid on the backbenches during the Truss years weeks, I don't remember him doing much of anything.

[rob1966]

I don't think it's useful at all - the majority of Tory MPs didn't vote for Truss, it was the members who put her in post. And unless they then took a job in her cabinet then they aren't that linked to her failure. Sunak repeats his pathetic lines about Corbyn because Starmer served in the Shadow cabinet under Corbyn through two GE campaigns (implictly approving him for the job of PM) - but there aren't many Tories that would be hurt by a similar attack. Sunak himself first ran against her directly and then just hid on the backbenches during the Truss years weeks, I don't remember him doing much of anything.

A better one would be "you're all that fucking useless, the membership had no choice but the elect Truss as leader and make her PM"

[Dr. Beaker]

I don't think it's useful at all - the majority of Tory MPs didn't vote for Truss, it was the members who put her in post. And unless they then took a job in her cabinet then they aren't that linked to her failure. Sunak repeats his pathetic lines about Corbyn because Starmer served in the Shadow cabinet under Corbyn through two GE campaigns (implictly approving him for the job of PM) - but there aren't many Tories that would be hurt by a similar attack. Sunak himself first ran against her directly and then just hid on the backbenches during the Truss years weeks, I don't remember him doing much of anything.

I see your point, but does it matter. It will score points with Joe Public.

[west_london_red]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunaks-election-fundraiser-mohamed-mansour-chased-by-hmrc-n9ct9tk05

Rishi Sunak’s election fundraiser Mohamed Mansour chased by HMRC

[west_london_red]

I don't think it's useful at all - the majority of Tory MPs didn't vote for Truss, it was the members who put her in post. And unless they then took a job in her cabinet then they aren't that linked to her failure. Sunak repeats his pathetic lines about Corbyn because Starmer served in the Shadow cabinet under Corbyn through two GE campaigns (implictly approving him for the job of PM) - but there aren't many Tories that would be hurt by a similar attack. Sunak himself first ran against her directly and then just hid on the backbenches during the Truss years weeks, I don't remember him doing much of anything.

We’re not up against Rishi Sunak we’re up against a political ideology and party that thought Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson was PM material, and then thought the same of Truss. The Tories spend half their lives making up shit, non-affiliated unions go on strike, and they try and pin it on Labour, affiliated union donations are painted by the Tories as somehow tainted and something to be embarrassed about but how often do we hear anything back from Labour on the Tories and their links to Russian oligarchs? The next election is going to be fought in the gutter and Labour need to be ready to get in there too, lie, cheat, make shit up, bite, eye gouging, whatever it takes to twat the bastards.

[TSC]

There’s an article in todays Observer from Carol Cadwalladr aimed at Carol Vorderman, praising Voderman for highlighting the extent of tax dodging, etc, by Tories, including the PM.  Said article also warns Vorderman how she will be a target by the usual right wing sources including the press.

Vorderman’s been using Twitter to highlight stuff apparently.

https://twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1622226547229790208?

[andy07]

Polls suggest 30% of the country will still vote for this lot. Now that is seriously worrying and says alot abot the state of the country.  With their track record the tories should be less than 10%.

[Circa1892]

Polls suggest 30% of the country will still vote for this lot. Now that is seriously worrying and says alot abot the state of the country.  With their track record the tories should be less than 10%.

The only worry really is how many of the Labour and Lib Dem voters are disenfranchised by the Tories voter suppression law.

[TSC]

Polls suggest 30% of the country will still vote for this lot. Now that is seriously worrying and says alot abot the state of the country.  With their track record the tories should be less than 10%.

Fancy a bet?

https://betting.betfair.com/politics/uk-politics-sunaks-tories-are-on-course-for-a-disaster-worse-than-1997-050223-171.html

[west_london_red]

The only worry really is how many of the Labour and Lib Dem voters are disenfranchised by the Tories voter suppression law.

It will have an impact but I suspect it won’t be as bad as we’re worried about because those most likely to fall foul of these new rules already have quite a low turnout.

Fancy a bet?

https://betting.betfair.com/politics/uk-politics-sunaks-tories-are-on-course-for-a-disaster-worse-than-1997-050223-171.html

Still only 57% of a Labour majority, that’s actually quite disappointing when you look at the polling. I said it a few days a ago and I’ll say it again, Sunak needs a couple of wins soon otherwise he’ll be out on his arse and the fat blonde clown will be back and then all bets are off with his weird hold over sections of the electorate.

[reddebs]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunaks-election-fundraiser-mohamed-mansour-chased-by-hmrc-n9ct9tk05

Rishi Sunak’s election fundraiser Mohamed Mansour chased by HMRC

He's also been raking it in from still trading with Putin 🤷

The whole lot of 'em stink but fuck all gets done!

Oh and the Telegraph reported in December that he's wanting to buy an English football club 🤦

[thaddeus]

It will have an impact but I suspect it won’t be as bad as we’re worried about because those most likely to fall foul of these new rules already have quite a low turnout.

Still only 57% of a Labour majority, that’s actually quite disappointing when you look at the polling. I said it a few days a ago and I’ll say it again, Sunak needs a couple of wins soon otherwise he’ll be out on his arse and the fat blonde clown will be back and then all bets are off with his weird hold over sections of the electorate.

Johnson seems to appeal to non-traditional Tory voters but is a turn off to many of the traditional Tory voters.  It would also be an open goal for Labour to point out that the Tories have run out of ideas.  I really, really hope it happens and Johnson undoes the kudos he received with his lies in 2019 by leading the Tories to a collapse of the blue heartlands.

[Dr. Beaker]

Sunak needs a couple of wins soon otherwise he’ll be out on his arse and the fat blonde clown will be back and then all bets are off with his weird hold over sections of the electorate.

But at least Labour will then be able to claim to be the party of law and order.

[Dr. Beaker]

The next election is going to be fought in the gutter and Labour need to be ready to get in there too, lie, cheat, make shit up, bite, eye gouging, whatever it takes to twat the bastards.

I like your style.

[killer-heels]

You cant fight dirtier than the Tories. If Sunak was Labour leader they would go after his and his wife’s nationality, level of immigration currently etc. Anyone really think Labour would do that? If you want to go low then thats the sort of realms you need to get into.

[Schmarn]

You cant fight dirtier than the Tories. If Sunak was Labour leader they would go after his and his wife’s nationality, level of immigration currently etc. Anyone really think Labour would do that? If you want to go low then thats the sort of realms you need to get into.

We won’t do that (the right wing rags might if they want Boris back) but we will and should blame everything on him even if it’s not directly his fault. We should portray him as a weak and small man unprepared for the job and frequent reminders of his wealth are fair game too. None of which should substitute for positive policies for government. It’s oft forgot that while Blair had a positive agenda he was absolutely brutal to Major. Major actually got the economy on track but took the rap for what came before and much else beside including societal issues.

[Dr. Beaker]

We won’t do that (the right wing rags might if they want Boris back) but we will and should blame everything on him even if it’s not directly his fault. We should portray him as a weak and small man unprepared for the job and frequent reminders of his wealth are fair game too. None of which should substitute for positive policies for government. It’s oft forgot that while Blair had a positive agenda he was absolutely brutal to Major. Major actually got the economy on track but took the rap for what came before and much else beside including societal issues.

My memory of that is that Major only got the economy on track when the pound was forced to devalue, which was what he had been fighting against all along with his 15% interest rates. Suddenly, imports became expensive and our exports became cheaper.

[Statto Red]

My memory of that is that Major only got the economy on track when the pound was forced to devalue, which was what he had been fighting against all along with his 15% interest rates. Suddenly, imports became expensive and our exports became cheaper.

Yeah, with the mess that was Black Wednesday, then the 93 budget, with new taxes introduced, such as VAT on fuel, add in bitter infighting on Europe, sleaze & corruption, [the sleaze & corruption with this government is on another level], by the 97 election the voters had enough, Labour won on a landslide, Tory's were wiped out in Wales & Scotland, were affectively reduced to a middle England party.

[Nobby Reserve]

One of the main apects of Right Wing thinking is that there a group of people who naturally 'should' be in power and making decisions (which is of course them) and everyone else who shouldn't. It's totally antithetical to their sense of how the world 'should' work that others get to tell them what to do (how much tax to pay, introduce laws they don't support, all that stuff).

The actual governance aspect is secondary to ensuring that the 'right' people are in charge. The trouble for them right now is that they are deeply divided on the best way to retain that power.

As Bevan remarked:

"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."

[Nobby Reserve]

My memory of that is that Major only got the economy on track when the pound was forced to devalue, which was what he had been fighting against all along with his 15% interest rates. Suddenly, imports became expensive and our exports became cheaper.

We'd basically pegged the £ to the value of a group of European currencies, via the exchange Rate Mechanism.

The problem was, we'd locked in at too high a rate (ie, the £ was too strong). As this became apparent, an increasing number of city wankers began to short it. In 1992, Italy devalued their currency and the Bundesbank president warned other currencies needed to 'revalue'. City wankers began offloading Sterling. The government had committed to buying any and all currency at inflated prices to try to prop up the £'s value, and also began hiking interest rates to try to tempt city wankers to invest here (and therefore need £'s). It all failed. We unceremoniously exited the ERM.