Topic: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!

[Barneylfc∗]

(From a West Ham forum:)



    My take on the Areola situation is that there is no way a Premier League keeper throws the ball down like that and pulls his socks up without having been told it’s a free kick.

    I would say the ref said to him ‘it’s a free kick’ and ran away from him… then the Liverpool players had retreated and the ref was then thinking he could keep the game going shouting at Areola to play on. Areola doesn’t hear this and as per usual a Liverpool player tries to score a cheap goal, so the ref then gets into a panic and tells Areola to make out he needs treatment:

    All in all it stems from the ref being out of control of the game, too many mixed signals from him.

(reply by another person)

Exactly I think the ref coc_ed up and ran up to him and said go down and fein injury ( if that was against us I'd be asking questions ) it's nice to get something for once :grin:

This person is clearly an moron that hasn't watched the incident.
At what point in a crowded penalty area from about 20 yards away (Areola was lying on the floor beside the post, Taylor was at the far corner of the 18 yard box) did Taylor tell him it was a free kick?

[Peabee]

I don't think that is accurate.
https://www.worldfootball.net/referee_summary/anthony-taylor_2/liverpool-fc/4/

Oh ffs.  I've been had off there by a mate. 

[rob1966]

This person is clearly an moron that hasn't watched the incident.
At what point in a crowded penalty area from about 20 yards away (Areola was lying on the floor beside the post, Taylor was at the far corner of the 18 yard box) did Taylor tell him it was a free kick?

Thats what we are up against. Instead of agreeing that Taylor has made a monumental fuck up, they're looking for ways to turn it on us and accuse us of cheating. Its why I wouldn't give a fuck if we pissed off the an ESL and fucked the Premier League off into oblivion.

[y2w902]

Thats what we are up against. Instead of agreeing that Taylor has made a monumental fuck up, they're looking for ways to turn it on us and accuse us of cheating. Its why I wouldn't give a fuck if we pissed off the an ESL and fucked the Premier League off into oblivion.

But the ESL was never created to replace the domestic league.

[rob1966]

But the ESL was never created to replace the domestic league.

I know that, these fucknuggets and Sky didn't, they all thought it was the death of the PL when it wasn't BUT if we did go full ESL, the Premier League would deserve it.

[paisley1977]

Guess who our referee is this weekend.
Back by popular demand Mr Paul Tierney come on down.

[rossipersempre]

Guess who our referee is this weekend.
Back by popular demand Mr Paul Tierney come on down.

It's like tag-teaming in wrestling. Apt given the openly scripted and choreographed nature of that "sports entertainment".

[darragh85]

I hope klopp lamps one of them before he finishes

[Fromola]

Guess who our referee is this weekend.
Back by popular demand Mr Paul Tierney come on down.

The club just sit back and take it so why not?

At least we've got fuck all to play for, so Tierney can do his worst for all it matters.

[rob1966]

The club just sit back and take it so why not?

At least we've got fuck all to play for, so Tierney can do his worst for all it matters.

Seriously, seeing as you constantly have digs at the club over this, what exactly do you want them to do?

[Fromola]

Seriously, seeing as you constantly have digs at the club over this, what exactly do you want them to do?

Obviously Forest went about it wrong with their statement, but we have a Manchester referee practically every week. Is there nobody from the club ever querying this? The Forest chairman was on the phone to Webb about a supposed Luton fan on VAR before one of their games.

Not to mention Tierney's history with Klopp, yet he always gets our games.

[rob1966]

Obviously Forest went about it wrong with their statement, but we have a Manchester referee practically every week. Is there nobody from the club ever querying this? The Forest chairman was on the phone to Webb about a supposed Luton fan on VAR before one of their games.

Not to mention Tierney's history with Klopp, yet he always gets our games.

Query it with who, Howard Webb? As has been said throughout this thread, the PGMOL is a closed shop of bezzie mates all looking after each other and covering each others backs. Pull Webb over the Manc referees and he'll just spout some bollocks about how they are all professional and will do the job fairly and without bias.

Until the PL clubs decide as a group to sort out PGMOL, nothing will change.

[Fromola]

Query it with who, Howard Webb? As has been said throughout this thread, the PGMOL is a closed shop of bezzie mates all looking after each other and covering each others backs. Pull Webb over the Manc referees and he'll just spout some bollocks about how they are all professional and will do the job fairly and without bias.

Until the PL clubs decide as a group to sort out PGMOL, nothing will change.

We should be asking for a fairer distribution of referees, if nothing else, as we get the same few every week. Not that it makes much difference with the PGMOL mafia whoever we get.

[Draex]

Query it with who, Howard Webb? As has been said throughout this thread, the PGMOL is a closed shop of bezzie mates all looking after each other and covering each others backs. Pull Webb over the Manc referees and he'll just spout some bollocks about how they are all professional and will do the job fairly and without bias.

Until the PL clubs decide as a group to sort out PGMOL, nothing will change.

It won't change, they all had their chance after the Spurs fuck up but rolled out the party line.. Then one by one they suffered the incompetence and complained individually.

It needs half the clubs to go to the Premership and demand change, with evidence. A few will resist but there is a growing number now.

[CHOPPER]

Gonna be a fuckin long summer for some of you lot

[Historical Fool]

We should be asking for a fairer distribution of referees, if nothing else, as we get the same few every week. Not that it makes much difference with the PGMOL mafia whoever we get.

The PGMOL is being revamped even this season. There’s a push towards fast tracking talent, especially young talent, into the Select Group. There’s more accountability to the clubs now than before - yes, it might not feel that way, but there is a little bit and it will only get better hopefully. VAR is being refined and should see improvements next season. This is all driven by clubs, owners, spectator / customer  and media feedback but it’s a long process that will take time to bear fruit.

[GreatEx]

Clever strategy to make things much, much worse in the short term so that when things are just a bit worse in the long term then it feels like improvement. I should bring some of this to my work, might take the pressure off.

[Redbonnie]

The PGMOL is being revamped even this season. There’s a push towards fast tracking talent, especially young talent, into the Select Group. There’s more accountability to the clubs now than before - yes, it might not feel that way, but there is a little bit and it will only get better hopefully. VAR is being refined and should see improvements next season. This is all driven by clubs, owners, spectator / customer  and media feedback but it’s a long process that will take time to bear fruit.

Too little to late for Jurgen sadly

[Eeyore]

The PGMOL is being revamped even this season. There’s a push towards fast tracking talent, especially young talent, into the Select Group. There’s more accountability to the clubs now than before - yes, it might not feel that way, but there is a little bit and it will only get better hopefully. VAR is being refined and should see improvements next season. This is all driven by clubs, owners, spectator / customer  and media feedback but it’s a long process that will take time to bear fruit.

That sounds great until you realise what will happen when young referres are recruited. They then get mentored by the older referees. They basically get brain washed into thinking in exactly the same way. Look after each other and above all protect the organisation at all costs. Then the older referees retire and go to work for the PGMOL.

The issue isn't the age of the referees. The issue is the culture at the PGMOL. It is the same as the Met. You can bring in as many young policemen as you want. Nothing changes though unless you change the culture. The Mets problem isn't the new recruits on the street it is the attitude of the senior officers who then mentor and effectively corrupt the new blood.

Give it 5-10 years and Webb will be gone but you will have the likes of Taylor or Tierney running the show. The PGMOL needs a root and branch reform and the culture changing.

As for accountability to the club's. Do you mean the odd meally mouthed apology and Webb given a platform on Sky to gaslight people. Webb has admitted that Taylor made a catastrophic error in the Everton and Forest game. He followed that up by cheating in the West Ham game. He is refereeing at the weekend.

So he has basically affected both the title race and the relegation race in consecutive weeks. Told a player to cheat yet there is zero accountability. He will take charge of Burnley v Newcastle a match that has implications for relegation with Burnley 2 points from safety and the European places with Newcastle 1 point behind United and 4 ahead of West hame. If a player had fixed the outcome of a result the way Taylor did would he be allowed to play this weekend?

I mean imagine how Forest feel about Taylor who fucked them over against Everton and got pelters for it then being given the Burnley game. Taylor should be suspended and facing an investigation not getting another opportunity to affect the relegation battle.

[rob1966]

Gonna be a fuckin long summer for some of you lot

I've got a boss summer sorted, airshows, lads 16th, him doing his first solo flight, MotoGP, going out with the family and totally ignoring football.

[Son of Spion]

That sounds great until you realise what will happen when young referres are recruited. They then get mentored by the older referees. They basically get brain washed into thinking in exactly the same way. Look after each other and above all protect the organisation at all costs. Then the older referees retire and go to work for the PGMOL.

The issue isn't the age of the referees. The issue is the culture at the PGMOL. It is the same as the Met. You can bring in as many young policemen as you want. Nothing changes though unless you change the culture. The Mets problem isn't the new recruits on the street it is the attitude of the senior officers who then mentor and effectively corrupt the new blood.

Give it 5-10 years and Webb will be gone but you will have the likes of Taylor or Tierney running the show. The PGMOL needs a root and branch reform and the culture changing.

As for accountability to the club's. Do you mean the odd meally mouthed apology and Webb given a platform on Sky to gaslight people. Webb has admitted that Taylor made a catastrophic error in the Everton and Forest game. He followed that up by cheating in the West Ham game. He is refereeing at the weekend.

So he has basically affected both the title race and the relegation race in consecutive weeks. Told a player to cheat yet there is zero accountability. He will take charge of Burnley v Newcastle a match that has implications for relegation with Burnley 2 points from safety and the European places with Newcastle 1 point behind United and 4 ahead of West hame. If a player had fixed the outcome of a result the way Taylor did would he be allowed to play this weekend?

I mean imagine how Forest feel about Taylor who fucked them over against Everton and got pelters for it then being given the Burnley game. Taylor should be suspended and facing an investigation not getting another opportunity to affect the relegation battle.

The bit in bold is one of the most damning things for me. They are paid to uphold the integrity of the game on the field of play. Yet, in practice they are all about looking after themselves and their own failing organisation. It's more of a clique than a profession.

[paddysour]

I think a really easy win for PGMOL is to change the process so that VAR doesn't know what the on-field decision is. They'd have to judge each incident on it's merits rather than worry about "embarrassing their mate".

[JRed]

I've got a boss summer sorted, airshows, lads 16th, him doing his first solo flight, MotoGP, going out with the family and totally ignoring football.

It will be nice to get away from the stress of the officials fucking us over in every game!

[Lisan Al Gaib]

I think a really easy win for PGMOL is to change the process so that VAR doesn't know what the on-field decision is. They'd have to judge each incident on it's merits rather than worry about "embarrassing their mate".

How on earth are they going to do that when they're watching the game?

[JRed]

I think a really easy win for PGMOL is to change the process so that VAR doesn't know what the on-field decision is. They'd have to judge each incident on it's merits rather than worry about "embarrassing their mate".

Isn’t that what Darren England does anyway?

[Eeyore]

How on earth are they going to do that when they're watching the game?

Braille?

[Peabee]

I've got a boss summer sorted, airshows, lads 16th, him doing his first solo flight, MotoGP, going out with the family and totally ignoring football.

That's gonna be a busy day on the one day of summer we'll get. 

[Eeyore]

That's gonna be a busy day on the one day of summer we'll get. 

He is doing his first solo flight in a jumbo jet full of his friends and family on his 16th birthday whilst doing a loop the loop over the Moto GP.

[Peabee]

He is doing his first solo flight in a jumbo jet full of his friends and family on his 16th birthday whilst doing a loop the loop over the Moto GP.

 

Then a footy drops out of the overhead luggage and ruins Rob's day.

[Eeyore]

Then a footy drops out of the overhead luggage and ruins Rob's day.

[rob1966]

Then a footy drops out of the overhead luggage and ruins Rob's day.

[JRed]

Then he finds out Howard Webb is the co pilot

[rob1966]

Then he finds out Howard Webb is the co pilot

I wish, my lad can then dump the c*nt in the Irish Sea from 4,000 ft

[slaphead]

I've got a boss summer sorted, airshows, lads 16th, him doing his first solo flight, MotoGP, going out with the family and totally ignoring football. the wife

Good man !

[Eeyore]

I wish, my lad can then dump the c*nt in the Irish Sea from 4,000 ft

Then you can say look officer, like you, pilots are human beings and everyone makes mistakes. They were both high, the button for the ejector set was in the middle of them and it was just a coming together. Good process.

[CHOPPER]

I've got a boss summer sorted, airshows, lads 16th, him doing his first solo flight, MotoGP, going out with the family and totally ignoring football.

Sound.

No worries though, this thing will be awaiting your return.

[stockdam]

Here’s some analysis of the Gakpo incident from Dale Johnson, General Editor, ESPN FC.

“Referee Anthony Taylor identified it as a foul but signalled for play to continue as Areola had control of the ball.

However, Areola appeared to land slightly awkwardly and initially went down holding his ankle, with Gakpo checking on him. This is where the breakdown in communication happened; Areola wasn't looking at the referee as advantage was signalled.

Areola seems to believe that a free kick has been given in his favour, which appears to be obvious by the way he throws the ball forward with backspin preparing to kick long. However, Taylor played the advantage, so there was no free kick and Gakpo would have been within his rights to put the ball into the net.


Referee Anthony Taylor signals advantage as goalkeeper Alphonse Areola is on the ground holding his ankle. BBC
The referee retains the right to manage the match in the spirit of the game, and he felt that if he'd failed to make the goalkeeper aware of the advantage it wasn't fair for Gakpo to have that scoring chance -- so he blew the whistle to stop play before the Liverpool striker got to the ball. As there was no goal, there's nothing for the VAR to check or review.

It would have been avoided had Taylor just awarded the free kick, especially as the goalkeeper had gone down. It was the safer option. Also, if he had checked on Areola for a possible injury rather than retreating up the pitch it would have removed any ambiguity.

Taylor could also have just awarded the free kick at the point Areola tossed the ball forward, indicating no advantage. Instead, he allowed the medical staff to come on and check Areola and gave a dropped ball -- the correct restart if the referee has deemed play has only been stopped to allow treatment for an injury.

If feels like Taylor attempted to rectify his mistake by rewinding to what he should have done -- stopped play and addressed the possible injury to Areola.”



I agree with most of this apart from the nonsense that the referee felt that he had not communicated the advantage clearly to the keeper. Since when did this rule come in? If the referee feels that a player has misunderstood something then it’s ok for the referee to halt the game…..really???

The keeper clearly made a mistake but guess what…..play to the whistle and don’t assume anything. If the keeper assumes something then that is not the referee’s problem nor, in this case Gakpo’s.

There was no foul and if the referee thought there was then that’s problem number 1. Problem number 2 is the referee stopping play because he thought the keeper needed attention when the keeper wasn’t asking for it. The keeper got it wrong, the referee may have thought that the keeper misunderstood and if so then that’s poor refereeing and it leaves it wide open to do something similar in future.

In my opinion the referee panicked when he saw the keeper preparing for a free kick and so blew his whistle to protect the keeper. He then panicked again as he knew he had made a wrong decision and so he told the keeper to go down as he “needed” attention. The keeper was pulling up his socks and adjusting his shin pads to waste time and was in no distress. The decision cost us a goal and although it would have been a soft one that would have been the keeper’s fault.

Instead of all this bullshit of what the referee was thinking, why can’t we have a clear statement as to why the whistle was blown. We won’t as this would expose the incorrect decision. The best the referee could say is that he thought the keeper needed attention.

It’s bullshit and we all know it is.

[Eeyore]

Here’s some analysis of the Gakpo incident from Dale Johnson, General Editor, ESPN FC.

“Referee Anthony Taylor identified it as a foul but signalled for play to continue as Areola had control of the ball.

However, Areola appeared to land slightly awkwardly and initially went down holding his ankle, with Gakpo checking on him. This is where the breakdown in communication happened; Areola wasn't looking at the referee as advantage was signalled.

Areola seems to believe that a free kick has been given in his favour, which appears to be obvious by the way he throws the ball forward with backspin preparing to kick long. However, Taylor played the advantage, so there was no free kick and Gakpo would have been within his rights to put the ball into the net.


Referee Anthony Taylor signals advantage as goalkeeper Alphonse Areola is on the ground holding his ankle. BBC
The referee retains the right to manage the match in the spirit of the game, and he felt that if he'd failed to make the goalkeeper aware of the advantage it wasn't fair for Gakpo to have that scoring chance -- so he blew the whistle to stop play before the Liverpool striker got to the ball. As there was no goal, there's nothing for the VAR to check or review.

It would have been avoided had Taylor just awarded the free kick, especially as the goalkeeper had gone down. It was the safer option. Also, if he had checked on Areola for a possible injury rather than retreating up the pitch it would have removed any ambiguity.

Taylor could also have just awarded the free kick at the point Areola tossed the ball forward, indicating no advantage. Instead, he allowed the medical staff to come on and check Areola and gave a dropped ball -- the correct restart if the referee has deemed play has only been stopped to allow treatment for an injury.

If feels like Taylor attempted to rectify his mistake by rewinding to what he should have done -- stopped play and addressed the possible injury to Areola.”



I agree with most of this apart from the nonsense that the referee felt that he had not communicated the advantage clearly to the keeper. Since when did this rule come in? If the referee feels that a player has misunderstood something then it’s ok for the referee to halt the game…..really???

The keeper clearly made a mistake but guess what…..play to the whistle and don’t assume anything. If the keeper assumes something then that is not the referee’s problem nor, in this case Gakpo’s.

There was no foul and if the referee thought there was then that’s problem number 1. Problem number 2 is the referee stopping play because he thought the keeper needed attention when the keeper wasn’t asking for it. The keeper got it wrong, the referee may have thought that the keeper misunderstood and if so then that’s poor refereeing and it leaves it wide open to do something similar in future.

In my opinion the referee panicked when he saw the keeper preparing for a free kick and so blew his whistle to protect the keeper. He then panicked again as he knew he had made a wrong decision and so he told the keeper to go down as he “needed” attention. The keeper was pulling up his socks and adjusting his shin pads to waste time and was in no distress. The decision cost us a goal and although it would have been a soft one that would have been the keeper’s fault.

Instead of all this bullshit of what the referee was thinking, why can’t we have a clear statement as to why the whistle was blown. We won’t as this would expose the incorrect decision. The best the referee could say is that he thought the keeper needed attention.

It’s bullshit and we all know it is.

Dale Johnson is a whopper.

Areola doesn't need to see the referee indicate advantage. The absence of the referee blowing his whistle tells him he hasn't been awarded a free kick. Johnson also completely ignores Taylor telling Areola to go to the floor.

[stoa]

Dale Johnson is a whopper.

Areola doesn't need to see the referee indicate advantage. The absence of the referee blowing his whistle tells him he hasn't been awarded a free kick. Johnson also completely ignores Taylor telling Areola to go to the floor.

Also his line about Taylor allowing the medical staff to come on to the pitch is complete bollocks. He doesn't allow them on, he basically forces them to come on, because they had not intention of coming on as has been pointed out by rob1966 earlier in this thread with a screenshot showing West Ham's medical staff sitting on their bench.

Problem with Johnson is that he clearly has sources inside PGMOL, but too frequently he just takes what he has been told and runs with it no matter whether it makes sense or not. It's great having those kinds of sources or access to an organisation, but you still should take everything you hear with a pinch of salt and make up your own mind. It seems pretty obvious with Johnson, that he follows PGMOL's line of "reasoning" in 90 percent of the cases, which leads to him flip flopping in the same way as PGMOL, sometimes using the complete opposite argument to justify a non-call compared to the one he used a week or a month before to justify a call.

[GreatEx]

What a load of shite. There was no foul and no injury, just a goalkeeper fucking around.