Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
539 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 740

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 1452252 times)

Offline Circa1892

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Re: Brexit - Pealrlimunt to be prorogued as the pro-rogues try to wreck the UK
« Reply #28200 on: September 11, 2019, 08:31:50 pm »
What’s going on with the personal comms they were supposed to release today?

Offline Snail

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Re: Brexit - Pealrlimunt to be prorogued as the pro-rogues try to wreck the UK
« Reply #28201 on: September 11, 2019, 08:37:07 pm »
What’s going on with the personal comms they were supposed to release today?

They’re not.

Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: Brexit - Pealrlimunt to be prorogued as the pro-rogues try to wreck the UK
« Reply #28202 on: September 11, 2019, 08:38:15 pm »
What’s going on with the personal comms they were supposed to release today?
They are refusing to release them.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit - Pealrlimunt to be prorogued as the pro-rogues try to wreck the UK
« Reply #28203 on: September 11, 2019, 08:40:27 pm »
Paragraph 15 has been redacted. I wonder why. What could be worse than all the others?

In the leaked version that was the bit which talked about oil refineries shutting down, thousands of job losses, and fuel shortages.
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Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Brexit - Pealrlimunt to be prorogued as the pro-rogues try to wreck the UK
« Reply #28204 on: September 11, 2019, 08:41:47 pm »
but we won the war

Offline TheShanklyGates

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Re: Brexit - Pealrlimunt to be prorogued as the pro-rogues try to wreck the UK
« Reply #28205 on: September 11, 2019, 08:41:53 pm »
What’s going on with the personal comms they were supposed to release today?

They're not doing it. From the Guardian live blog.

Quote
20m ago 20:18

The government has refused to comply with Parliament’s request to make public internal communications between the prime minister’s top advisers over Operation Yellowhammer and prorogation.

A letter from Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove addressed to former Attorney General Dominic Grieve states that the request would breach the rights of those named in the communications – including civil servants and special advisers.

This is an unprecedented, inappropriate, and disproportionate use of [the Humble Address] procedure. To name individuals without any regard for their rights or the consequences of doing so goes far beyond any reasonable right of Parliament under this procedure.

These individuals have no right of reply, and the procedure used fails to afford them any of the protections that would properly be in place. It offends against basic principles of fairness and the Civil Service duty of care towards its employees.

Meanwhile the BBC News channel manages to plumb new depths. They just addressed the Yellowhammer documents with about a minute long discussion of how 'it's a worst case scenario' (it isn't) and concluded that 'nobody knows what's going to happen' (we do). Didn't even mention the failure to comply with the communications release. And are now 5 minutes into a discussion about the latest psychodrama in the Labour party ::)
I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit - Pealrlimunt to be prorogued as the pro-rogues try to wreck the UK
« Reply #28206 on: September 11, 2019, 08:44:30 pm »

Quote
Operation Yellowhammer

BASE SCENARIO

HMG Reasonable Worst Case Planning Assumptions

17. Low income groups will be disproportionately affected by any price rises in food and fuel. (HMT)
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Offline TSC

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Re: Brexit - Pealrlimunt to be prorogued as the pro-rogues try to wreck the UK
« Reply #28207 on: September 11, 2019, 08:45:03 pm »
It's got to the stage now where this government needs to be stopped at all costs.  Whether that's politically or via courts etc, who cares.  As long as they're stopped.  Things have snowballed from the referendum, slowly generally, but gathered some pace since Johnson took May's place.  I posted some weeks ago, not quite tongue-in-cheek, about wondering what life in Germany was like when the nazis came to power.  They effectively rode roughshod over the rule of law until a fascist dictatorship was in place.   Obviously the economic and social situation in Germany then is not comparable to UK now, but politically the situation right now in the UK is frightening.

Johnson is obviously the danger short term - but he may be just a means to an end.  It is the cabal the sits behind him that potentially represents a bigger danger longer term if this isn't stopped.  You get the sense they're waiting quietly in the wings.  Only exposed periodically when the likes of Francois et al feel the need to vent via the media, although him and his ilk appear to have been quieter on this front lately.  Maybe a deliberate ploy, or maybe I've just been fortunate enough to have missed the latest rants.

The referendum arrived on a trojan horse called immigration.  It's evolved now where 'Brexit' is now the trojan horse for a power grab by the far right.  Of course with power comes control over everything including the military. 

Offline Commie Bobbie

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Re: Brexit - Pealrlimunt to be prorogued as the pro-rogues try to wreck the UK
« Reply #28208 on: September 11, 2019, 08:47:53 pm »


And Yet, These Same People Will Do Nothing.
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Offline Circa1892

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28209 on: September 11, 2019, 08:49:15 pm »
They're not doing it. From the Guardian live blog.

Meanwhile the BBC News channel manages to plumb new depths. They just addressed the Yellowhammer documents with about a minute long discussion of how 'it's a worst case scenario' (it isn't) and concluded that 'nobody knows what's going to happen' (we do). Didn't even mention the failure to comply with the communications release. And are now 5 minutes into a discussion about the latest psychodrama in the Labour party ::)

BBC have genuinely been a disgrace. Too close to that c*nt Robbie Gibb. Also responsible for Frottage.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Brexit - Pealrlimunt to be prorogued as the pro-rogues try to wreck the UK
« Reply #28210 on: September 11, 2019, 08:57:32 pm »
What’s going on with the personal comms they were supposed to release today?

They aren't

Offline Currywurst

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28211 on: September 11, 2019, 09:00:28 pm »
Are they trying to make us believe that this is the entirety of the government's planning and forecasting? It's just an (extremely skimpy) executive summary. Where's the detail, links to supporting documentation etc.? I've seen more comprehensive reports about the implications of moving a company department to a different location.

With the changed heading, it all smacks of yet another cover up.
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Offline Sir Capon of Debaser

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28212 on: September 11, 2019, 09:05:05 pm »
but we won the war
You and your wife have my thanks xx

Offline TSC

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Offline Snail

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28214 on: September 11, 2019, 09:10:11 pm »
Bizzie horses walking round town of a quiet Wednesday evening ???


Offline Craig S

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Online oldfordie

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28217 on: September 11, 2019, 09:16:13 pm »
Are they trying to make us believe that this is the entirety of the government's planning and forecasting? It's just an (extremely skimpy) executive summary. Where's the detail, links to supporting documentation etc.? I've seen more comprehensive reports about the implications of moving a company department to a different location.

With the changed heading, it all smacks of yet another cover up.
Good question,these problems must be based on information.
We know why our ports will face long delays but there are other serious problems that will also result in shortage, road haulage association raised these points with government minister,they were not given any answers.
The Government are covering their backsides, they are saying we are aware of these potential problems but they probably won't happen. we are acting responsible.
Brexit happens and things are worse than predicted,Government will tell us we were of these problems before we had a no deal but nobody believed these problems would actually happen.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Snail

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Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28218 on: September 11, 2019, 09:17:11 pm »
Paragraph 15.


Offline Currywurst

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28219 on: September 11, 2019, 09:22:10 pm »
Good question,these problems must be based on information.
We know why our ports will face long delays but there are other serious problems that will also result in shortage, road haulage association raised these points with government minister,they were not given any answers.
The Government are covering their backsides, they are saying we are aware of these potential problems but they probably won't happen. we are acting responsible.
Brexit happens and things are worse than predicted,Government will tell us we were of these problems before we had a no deal but nobody believed these problems would actually happen.

This is supposed to be the full extent of their No Deal planning? They're just playing yet more games, putting out the minimum of information with no indication as to what they've based these short assuumptions on. They're just pissing around, potentially with people's lives and certainly their wellbeing, treating us all as gullible fools. Because they can.
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Offline red_Mark1980

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28220 on: September 11, 2019, 09:22:11 pm »
They are knowingly destroying the country for their own personal gain, that is treason. Reintroduce the death penalty for it and have a public execution. We can have a bank holiday and stream it on Facebook

I'd be prepared to book a days leave.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28221 on: September 11, 2019, 09:27:59 pm »
Bizzie horses walking round town of a quiet Wednesday evening ???

In a few weeks people might be eating those horses.
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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28222 on: September 11, 2019, 09:34:13 pm »
This is supposed to be the full extent of their No Deal planning? They're just playing yet more games, putting out the minimum of information with no indication as to what they've based these short assuumptions on. They're just pissing around, potentially with people's lives and certainly their wellbeing, treating us all as gullible fools. Because they can.
There are a few assumptions in Yellow Hammer like possible rioting etc but most of the warnings are based on evidence, as you say they have drawn their conclusions based on this evidence.
Many UK companies have asked for clarity, they have voiced serious concerns raising many serious problems a no deal will bring. many of these companies are being gagged. there voice needs to be heard as well as there concerns are probably in Yellow Hammer
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 09:36:32 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28223 on: September 11, 2019, 09:37:05 pm »
Brexit is being driven by ideology from the bottom and personal gain exploiting that ideology from the top.  The reality of Brexit is a nightmare compared to a myth, and those at the top don't give a shit.

Things wont kick off until/if it happens.  But should things kick off, the entire government House will have blood on its hands.  Because they know its coming.
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Offline Clint Eastwood

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28224 on: September 11, 2019, 09:57:32 pm »
And central to the whole problem with Brexit is that despite confirmation from the government itself, Brexiteers will not change their stance. You could tell them that the country will explode if we leave the European Union and they'll stick their fingers in their ears and say "the country voted to leave". They don't fucking listen. They're deluded and they think it will be worth it because we will have blue passports and wonky bananas. Three years on and I still haven't heard a plausible non-racist reason that the average person would want to leave the EU.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 09:59:26 pm by Clint Eastwood »

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28225 on: September 11, 2019, 09:58:32 pm »
Brexit: Nigel Frottage election pact proposal rejected by No 10

Quote
Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson will not make an election pact with Brexit Party leader Nigel Frottage, Downing Street has said.

Mr Frottage said his party and the Conservatives should make a deal and "together we would be unstoppable".

But a senior Conservative source said Mr Frottage was "not a fit and proper person" and "should never be allowed anywhere near government".

Mr Frottage said he was "disappointed" with the response as he was offering a "genuine hand of friendship".

He told the BBC's Andrew Neil show that he did not want a job in the Conservative government and accused the Tories of "petty, tribal, party politics".

"Can't we see that actually if we get a Labour government we're not going to get a meaningful Brexit of any kind at all? This is big chance to unite the Leave vote," he said.

"We've got a solution here."

Quote
Mr Frottage has offered a "non-aggression pact" between his party and the Conservatives, on the condition that Mr Johnson sign up for "a clean-break Brexit" - in other words, no deal.

The aim is try to see off the threat from a "Remain alliance" of opposition parties who oppose Brexit and could depose the Tories.

Mr Frottage says he will not field candidates in any of the Conservatives' existing seats and targets if, in return, the Tories stand aside in more than 80 Leave-voting constituencies where they are unlikely to win.

...

At the weekend, the Brexit Party leader said the offer was "100% sincere" and would help return Mr Johnson to Downing Street.

He wrote in the Sunday Telegraph: "Johnson should cast his mind back to the European elections in May, in which his party came fifth, and ask himself: does he want the Tories to find themselves in a similarly disastrous position when the results of the next general election come in, or does he want to sign a non-aggression pact with me and return to Downing Street?"

When asked about a potential alliance on the Andrew Marr Show, Chancellor Sajid Javid said: "We don't need an electoral alliance with anyone. We can stand on our own two feet, put our message across."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49665789

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28226 on: September 11, 2019, 10:14:15 pm »
Fuck Brexit.  Fuck Farrage.  Fuck the lot of them.
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Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28227 on: September 11, 2019, 10:17:50 pm »
So just oil, food, petrol, diesel, chemicals, energy, social care, police, hospitals, ambulances, transport, agriculture, fishing, businesses, employees, rioting, strikes, blockades, internal travel, external travel, ports getting blocked, hundreds of miles of queues for months, body bags having to be bought because of gridlock, hundreds of thousands without water and tens of thousands dying then.

Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28228 on: September 11, 2019, 10:20:19 pm »
So just oil, food, petrol, diesel, chemicals, energy, social care, police, hospitals, ambulances, transport, agriculture, fishing, businesses, employees, rioting, strikes, blockades, internal travel, external travel, ports getting blocked, hundreds of miles of queues for months, body bags having to be bought because of gridlock, hundreds of thousands without water and tens of thousands dying then.



Apart from that, how was the play, Mrs.Lincoln?
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28229 on: September 11, 2019, 10:20:27 pm »
Interesting. The original title was 'Base case'

Which means that the Government are in contempt of parlament.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline thaddeus

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28230 on: September 11, 2019, 10:28:22 pm »
So just oil, food, petrol, diesel, chemicals, energy, social care, police, hospitals, ambulances, transport, agriculture, fishing, businesses, employees, rioting, strikes, blockades, internal travel, external travel, ports getting blocked, hundreds of miles of queues for months, body bags having to be bought because of gridlock, hundreds of thousands without water and tens of thousands dying then.
That about sums it up.

I'd be wary even if the flip-side of those risks was us relocating to the land of milk and honey five years down the line.  That there is no promised land, just a series of humiliatingly shit trade deals (including, at some point, with the EU) makes it utterly ridiculous that we'd be even considering it.

I await the first commentator labelling it as "Project Fear II" - assuming they've not already done so.  I don't know that there's anything that can snap people out of it now.

Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28231 on: September 11, 2019, 10:30:02 pm »
So just oil, food, petrol, diesel, chemicals, energy, social care, police, hospitals, ambulances, transport, agriculture, fishing, businesses, employees, rioting, strikes, blockades, internal travel, external travel, ports getting blocked, hundreds of miles of queues for months, body bags having to be bought because of gridlock, hundreds of thousands without water and tens of thousands dying then.


Yeah but we get the arl wooden passports.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28232 on: September 11, 2019, 10:38:51 pm »
Chris Cook, once of Newsnight, has been doing some really good reporting on Brexit. His latest is a fairly long read on polling and volatility which is worth a look: https://members.tortoisemedia.com/2019/09/11/take-the-coming-election/content.html?sig=htC35KGknwpd0Pj0XxR-lu0adU3_KRvflrnOLNjs3fk

Quote
But we have moved into a period of extremely high volatility – and with two highly engaged tribes trying to work out which horse they should be backing. The next election could see unprecedented amounts of tactical voting.

You can see paths for the Conservatives to win, sure. That looks the likeliest outcome. But given the flightiness and ruthlessness of British voters right now, don’t bet on it. Don’t bet on anything.

Factor he doesn't touch in is just how localised these effects can/will (?) be - the two big parties aren't used to elections where the one who wins is the one who loses fewest of what they used to consider their 'core vote'.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28233 on: September 11, 2019, 10:42:44 pm »
Brexit is being driven by ideology from the bottom and personal gain exploiting that ideology from the top.  The reality of Brexit is a nightmare compared to a myth, and those at the top don't give a shit.

Things wont kick off until/if it happens.  But should things kick off, the entire government House will have blood on its hands.  Because they know its coming.

Those at the top who rarely get badly affected when it all goes wrong have always manipulated and used those at the bottom who have the most to lose. The crazy thing about it is just how easy it is to do, and how blind so many people are to it.
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jürgen.

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28234 on: September 11, 2019, 10:52:03 pm »
I'm basing it on leavers I come across though, people like my cousin and all his stupid mates, thick c*nts like my Dad and the 11 or 12 HGV drivers I was on an EU invented pointless and expensive Driver CPC course with last weekend, plus every other lorry driver I come across. Too many people, such as Class 1 drivers saw foreign workers have a negative impact on their wages, then add in the £500 we have to pay to keep our CPC cards to allow us to continue to drive and their is a very blinkered view on the EU.

Hope they are looking forward to sitting in their cabs for 2 and a half days each way
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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28235 on: September 11, 2019, 10:55:10 pm »
I am no monarchist but how exactly ? What is she supposed to do ? She is advised by her PM on what to do and it is practice that she accepts that advice. All that has happened is it transpires that the Queen was lied to. I am not sure what else she is supposed to do other than doing some ninja shit on Johnson or ordering one of the guards to shoot him because he was unkempt
Don't even bother making it look like an accident Bond.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: Brexit - Pealrlimunt to be prorogued as the pro-rogues try to wreck the UK
« Reply #28236 on: September 11, 2019, 11:04:01 pm »
I'm basing it on leavers I come across though, people like my cousin and all his stupid mates, thick c*nts like my Dad and the 11 or 12 HGV drivers I was on an EU invented pointless and expensive Driver CPC course with last weekend, plus every other lorry driver I come across. Too many people, such as Class 1 drivers saw foreign workers have a negative impact on their wages, then add in the £500 we have to pay to keep our CPC cards to allow us to continue to drive and their is a very blinkered view on the EU.
Have any of the drivers even talked about EU Permits Rob.
It hardly gets mentioned now and it's a massive concern for Road Haulage and the country.
Only 5% of UK trucks who now enter the EU will be allowed into the EU after Brexit.
We have heard from countries like Turkey who have a CU and they tell us they get nowhere near the actually amount of Permits they want,  the Permits are only valid for 1 truck and run for months,they are all snapped up as soon as they are issued.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28237 on: September 11, 2019, 11:05:06 pm »
And central to the whole problem with Brexit is that despite confirmation from the government itself, Brexiteers will not change their stance. You could tell them that the country will explode if we leave the European Union and they'll stick their fingers in their ears and say "the country voted to leave". They don't fucking listen. They're deluded and they think it will be worth it because we will have blue passports and wonky bananas. Three years on and I still haven't heard a plausible non-racist reason that the average person would want to leave the EU.

I'm seeing this too. So many people seem to be willing to see the country crash and burn just so they get their Brexit. They just don't seem to care about the consequences at all, just so long as they get their way. What I have always found really weird is Brexiteers have never actually known what they were voting for. When the ballot took place there was a choice between what we already knew (the EU) and something we actually had no idea about. Even now, three years on, there is still squabbling about what 'out' actually entails. Maybe any deal should have been thrashed out beforehand then a vote on it afterwards. Otherwise, how on earth do you know what you are voting for or against?
All I ever hear from people who voted Leave is the 'immigrants and £350m per day to the NHS' mantra/lie. It just seems to come down to ''getting our country back' race, immigration and Nationalism. Basically, it's based in ignorance and prejudice. It can't be much else, because no one on the street seems to even know what the withdrawal deal on the table even involves or means. They certainly didn't vote for it because it wasn't even on the table three years ago.

From what I'm seeing, you are definitely right. If you told them the UK would cease to exist after leaving the EU they'd just say that at least it was ours when it went under. They either don't understand or don't care about the fall-out so long as they get their way, which is even the more crazy when we consider they didn't even know what Brexit would entail when they voted for it because no Brexit deal was even on the table to vote on. All that was voted on was the idea of Brexit, not the reality of it. There is no excuse now though, but far too many people seem hell-bent on putting their hands in the fire even after being informed that it's extremely hot and will most definitely hurt.

The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long, and you've burned so very, very brightly, Jürgen.

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28238 on: September 11, 2019, 11:18:31 pm »
Why the fuck is grace blakely on newsnight??

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Re: Brexit - Operation YellowHammer - Item 15. Things that make you go uhmmm
« Reply #28239 on: September 11, 2019, 11:23:08 pm »
Why the fuck is grace blakely on newsnight??

Because she is a publicity whore who loves the sound of her own stuck up voice? I would seriously punch that knob right in her face.

Also Matthew Goodwin should drop the impartiality act right now. Everytime he is on he is blaming Remainers and giving Leavers a free ride.

Who knew that a Tory that wrote for the Times had the most accurate analysis.