Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"

[stevo7]

Going from the coverage of Prorogation Monday Night/Tuesday Morning, I reckon the Queen won't turn up for the Queen's Speech. Another kick in the teeth for Bozo.

[Qston]

Edward VIII is I think the right precedent for Johnson.

I am sure the french would love to have him.......

[scouseman]

I was watching bbc news ch this morning and Stephen Kinnock said that his party had more positions on brexit then the  Kama Sutra. He was saying thatt they need to stick to a position and stick to it rather then trying to cater for all interests leave/remain

[Zeb]

Peston's now asking the question I asked whether Iska had heard an answer to in court.

Has any member of cabinet seen the full legal advice given to the prime minister which persuaded Johnson proroguing or suspending parliament is lawful? Julian Smith (Secretary of State for NI) asked for it, on the day cabinet was bounced into agreeing prorogation. Amber Rudd (ex-DWP) asked for it subsequently...

I am not aware that either got it. Instead they received a “trust me” from Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. This could be a problem for him and ministers because the ministerial code, amended after Chilcott enquiry into the legality of going to war in Iraq, says that all ministers have right to see FULL legal advice - not just summaries - on all contentious issues. Will Cabinet now get the advice after today’s Court of Session judgement? For their own self-preservation perhaps they should see it, and have that deferred (ahem) robust cabinet debate on whether closing parliament is appropriate.

This will snowball on. Like Sian says, resignations should follow. And, if they don't, then I'm thinking that Parliament will have to act to remove the government - just to nip this shit in the bud.

[Iska]

Peston's now asking the question I asked whether Iska had heard an answer to in court.

This will snowball on. Like Sian says, resignations should follow. And, if they don't, then I'm thinking that Parliament will have to act to remove the government - just to nip this shit in the bud.

I wasn’t in there today I should clarify, I was talking about having popped in to the actual hearing.

Yes to both points in your second para.  If the Tories back him on this, and assuming the Supreme Court doesn’t exonerate him, then the rule of law itself is up for grabs, and that might have to be at a General Election.  The stakes are about as high as they can be right now.

[Machae]

Well to be honest in any other times this would be a massive abuse of power and resignations would follow but as is the case with Trump, for Brexit at least, all rule books and normal conventions no longer apply and people seem to do what they please.

[KillieRed]

Perhaps we're seeing another reason for Rudds hasty exit?

[Red Beret]

Is it me or is Johnson just trying to go full fucking dictator here?  Shutting down parliament on the strength of a lie; ignoring or threatening to ignore the law.  I mean, we've seen the prevarication before in the House but nothing like this. 

Wonder if the Queen even bothered to ask him any questions or just rubber stamped his proposal?  Either way he's dragged her into this and she shouldn't be happy about it at all.

[Dr. Beaker]

Johnson is going to be even harder to find than Cameron after this is over.

[dirks digglers]

If this were anyone else - any other time - he'd already have resigned. Instead they're calling the courts biased. What the fuck is going on?

Your question made me think of this article from a while back. The writer didn't exactly nail down the topic if I recall, but it did ask questions about something that had been nagging at me and looks into the unravelling of trust and respect in authority/experts.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/nov/29/why-we-stopped-trusting-elites-the-new-populism

[AndyMuller]

I’m looking forward to the critically acclaimed tv series of all this mess in 30 years time.

[TepidT2O]

If this were anyone else - any other time - he'd already have resigned. Instead they're calling the courts biased. What the fuck is going on?

Well..

Let’s be careful ... because in someways the utter shit show that is the government is helping to stop brexit or at the very least a no deal brexit.

‘Never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake’

[TepidT2O]

Johnson is going to be even harder to find than Cameron after this is over.

Nonsense.

He will whore himself out for cash even more.  He will pitch himself as the brace brexit hero. 

The right wing brexit butters think he’s doing a great job

[Snail]

Well..

Let’s be careful ... because in someways the utter shit show that is the government is helping to stop brexit or at the very least a no deal brexit.

‘Never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake’

Of course, but they'll have to be stopped at some point and I wish I was 100% sure that they can be.

[Dr. Beaker]

Nonsense.

He will whore himself out for cash even more.  He will pitch himself as the brace brexit hero. 

The right wing brexit butters think he’s doing a great job

But he lied to the Queen gawwwwd bless 'er.

[classycarra]

Johnson is going to be even harder to find than Cameron after this is over.

You can be sure his people have researched extradition treaties

[wampa1]

Absolutely nothing will come of that court ruling.

I agree. Pretty much the same how nothing has come from any of Trump's antics despite similar levels of hyperbolic "Extraordinary!" tweeting from commentators. It's next level clickbait with no pay-off. Ever.

[Snail]

I agree. Pretty much the same how nothing has come from any of Trump's antics despite similar levels of hyperbolic "Extraordinary!" tweeting from commentators. It's next level clickbait with no pay-off. Ever.

Indeed. The shit that's going on over there with the ICE camps is terrifying.

[Dr. Beaker]

You can be sure his people have researched extradition treaties

Probably run to N. Korea where he can enjoy the benefits of WTO - hope he takes as many of his mates with him as he can.

[oldfordie]

Is it me or is Johnson just trying to go full fucking dictator here?  Shutting down parliament on the strength of a lie; ignoring or threatening to ignore the law.  I mean, we've seen the prevarication before in the House but nothing like this. 

Wonder if the Queen even bothered to ask him any questions or just rubber stamped his proposal?  Either way he's dragged her into this and she shouldn't be happy about it at all.

I think Cummings loved Parliament being outraged over the suspension of Parliament, it showed leave voters Johnsons is prepared to do anything to deliver Brexit by Oct 31st . the more remain MPs scream the better, I doubt he likes whats happening now, Belfast will also make a ruling next week, the Supreme court won't disagree with the Scottish ruling.
Johnsons on dodgy ground now,how can the Queen trust his advice, any other PM would resign in disgrace, it's another argument to deny him a GE.

[Lusty]

You can be sure his people have researched extradition treaties

You've made me think that all this ends with Boris being dragged out of a South American embassy in a couple of year's time.

[TepidT2O]

Of course, but they'll have to be stopped at some point and I wish I was 100% sure that they can be.

Only a referendum can stop this mess...

I guess we could be in the sane situation still, but it would break the deadlock in parliament

[Snail]

My biggest concern is that all of this isn't down to sheer incompetence. Johnson, Cummings and the rest of that shoddy gang of fascists may be doing such a bad job in order to paint all this as The People vs The Elites (i.e. moderates/lefties/the literal courts) for the upcoming election. Fanning the populist flames.

Or maybe - hopefully - I'm giving them far too much credit.

Meanwhile in the Mail comment sections, they're talking about hanging us.

[Cpt_Reina]

I agree. Pretty much the same how nothing has come from any of Trump's antics despite similar levels of hyperbolic "Extraordinary!" tweeting from commentators. It's next level clickbait with no pay-off. Ever.

Indeed.

The rule of law doesnt apply to the ruling class. Johnson and the government will push until there's a decision to be made, at which point those who would have to make a big decision and attempt to make it stick will either bottle it (because its the PM and the Government you're taking on here) or they'll be too caught up in the red tape and admin to actually achieve anything anyway.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Perhaps we're seeing another reason for Rudds hasty exit?

That crossed my mind too.

[24/7]

Only a referendum can stop this mess...

I guess we could be in the sane situation still, but it would break the deadlock in parliament

But.....but.....but........18 million have already voted......you can't change the result three years later........

Say the people who've already voted in two GEs in the last few years........


2nd ref is the only way to get through this. Many, many more people will turn out and there are hundreds of thousands of new young voters who will almost certainly vote remain.

Brexiters will fight it all the way - cos they're terrified of losing their demc'ratic rights innit mate.....

[Snail]

Indeed.

The rule of law doesnt apply to the ruling class. Johnson and the government will push until there's a decision to be made, at which point those who would have to make a big decision and attempt to make it stick will either bottle it (because its the PM and the Government you're taking on here) or they'll be too caught up in the red tape and admin to actually achieve anything anyway.

I'm very, very worried.

[Corkboy]

I’m looking forward to the critically acclaimed tv series of all this mess in 30 years time.

Yorkykopite better be taking notes....

[Schmidt]

My biggest concern is that all of this isn't down to sheer incompetence. Johnson, Cummings and the rest of that shoddy gang of fascists may be doing such a bad job in order to paint all this as The People vs The Elites (i.e. moderates/lefties/the literal courts) for the upcoming election. Fanning the populist flames.

Or maybe - hopefully - I'm giving them far too much credit.

Meanwhile in the Mail comment sections, they're talking about hanging us.

Or they are totally incompetent but people are so easily manipulated that it doesn't really matter.

[Cpt_Reina]

I'm very, very worried.

Yep, with good cause too because all the rhetoric is there too with this government and the hardline brexiteers.

Will of the people, posing in front of police, unelected judges, positioning MPs as enemies of the people.

Not great.

[gamble]

shock horror, we have serial liars and serial law breakers in number 10 now and people are asking them to do the right thing and resign??  haven't they shown their character already? they won't give a shit what any court says.

[KillieRed]

Indeed. The shit that's going on over there with the ICE camps is terrifying.

They're stopping people up to 95 miles from the border,  the Canadian border,  and you can guess what shade of people are being asked for their papers, searched & detained, and which kind of people are being waved through.

[classycarra]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves and trash the courts for impotence ahead of time (particularly when that's exactly what the right want everyone to do, albeit for different reasons).

Lets wait for the Supreme Court ruling next week.

[Zeb]

I agree. Pretty much the same how nothing has come from any of Trump's antics despite similar levels of hyperbolic "Extraordinary!" tweeting from commentators. It's next level clickbait with no pay-off. Ever.

Not sure the two situations are in any way similar beyond there being an executive and there being checks on its power yet to be used.

[Snail]

It’s a Wednesday and, if parliament were sitting, we would have had PMQs today. Because of prorogation it was cancelled.

But Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is going to stage a second of his “People’s PMQs” on Facebook this afternoon, Number 10 has announced.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/sep/11/brexit-latest-news-public-would-not-benefit-from-hearing-official-worst-case-no-deal-assumptions-says-leadsom-live-news

Propaganda.

[Snail]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/sep/11/brexit-latest-news-public-would-not-benefit-from-hearing-official-worst-case-no-deal-assumptions-says-leadsom-live-news

Propaganda.

“Don’t forget to include your name, occupation and town.”

[Zeb]

“Don’t forget to include your name, occupation and town.”=

Include a question too.

[Red Beret]

Honestly sounds like the beginnings of a fascist purge of institutions that dare to stand up to the government.

[filopastry]

Election Maps UK @ElectionMapsUK 2m

Westminster Voting Intention:

CON: 32% (-3)
LAB: 23% (+2)
LDM: 19% (=)
BXP: 14% (+2)
GRN: 7% (=)
UKIP: 0% (-1)

Via
@YouGov, 9-10 Sep.
Changes w/ 5-6 Sep.

[No666]

In all of this, the Queen proves herself to be completely useless. As a child, I remember the infamous Royal Family documentary portentously intoning that the monarchy guaranteed we would never become a dictatorship. Seems that's a moot point. The wider consequences of this are going to roll down the years; the monarchy has been weakened and I don't think that's just wishful thinking on my part.