Topic: Babel: I'm not finished here

[bigbear]

Hard to give anyone a starting spot if they did jack shite for 70 minutes when they are given an opportunity to start the week before. And then do that consistently whenever they are given a league start.

Europe aside, Babel has been poor whenever he has started a league match.

He scored on his last start in the League didn't he and did fine.

[bigbear]

But like I said his managers and I presume coaches who work with him day in day out do not share your opinion or we would have seen more of him

I know but when you see him do the things he's capable of like v Lyon or away at Arsenal last year you just think somebody should have got more out of him.

[AK47]

Be interesting to see if Kenny even gives him a run of games. To me Babel looks to have the physical attributes, just not the game intelligence. Not sure if even Kenny can give someone that :/

[Mad Men]

He scored on his last start in the League didn't he and did fine.

He did. And what did he do after when he came on as a sub in the subsequent match's?

[Cpt_Reina]

Hard to give anyone a starting spot if they did jack shite for 70 minutes when they are given an opportunity to start the week before. And then do that consistently whenever they are given a league start.

Europe aside, Babel has been poor whenever he has started a league match.

But how can a player get any kind of sharpness or form when he's restricted to 70mins every 2 weeks? Far more players have been given far more time to find some form when playing badly. Gerrard for the entire of last season springs to mind. And yes we know the form is there to be found with Gerrard whereas we dont with Ryan, but why not find out If he really is a lazy, good for nothing, poor excuse for a footballer let him sign his own death warrent, give him enough rope and end the debate by starting for 3 games in a row. To not even be given 3 starts in succession is remarkable considering what a confidence player he is, and the fact that forwards and forward thinking players need to feel their way in to some form. They operate in such thin margins for error, its not like at CB when you can just get rid of the ball, these lads need to pick a pass, find the target with a shot, control the ball under pressure, and that sharpness is onlt gained by minutes on the pitch.

[Cpt_Reina]

Your right that its pretty damning that he has never got a run of games but is that the managers fault or the player?  Roy as poor as he was, even in his desperation did not turn to Babel so I would tend to believe that there is a problem with the player.

Hodgson did turn to players like Poulson and Konchesky though, I dont think he is any judge of a players ability.

[bigbear]

He did. And what did he do after when he came on as a sub in the subsequent match's?

I thought he looked quite lively at Newcastle actually and should have got a go v Wolves from the off.

Don't get me wrong he is massively frustrating but I think had he been better managed he'd be a decent player now.

[bigbear]

Hodgson did turn to players like Poulson and Konchesky though, I dont think he is any judge of a players ability.

Rafa binned Sami Hyypia the minute he signed Skrtel so nobody's perfect.

[Cadno]

I know but when you see him do the things he's capable of like v Lyon or away at Arsenal last year you just think somebody should have got more out of him.

Again is that the fault of the managers and the coaching staff or the player?  If you count international level that makes 3 management teams that have failed to get more out of him.   If he had the ability and desire there is no doubt that he could have been a decent player but we are still seeing the same Ryan Babel that we saw when he arrived.  You would think that something would have clicked by now

[Fuzion6]

We have ruined this lads career.

Really really sad and as a player with potential I would think twice about coming to LFC.

This

[Cpt_Reina]

Rafa binned Sami Hyypia the minute he signed Skrtel so nobody's perfect.

Dont think he binned him, he was used in exactly the right way IMO. Plus Skrtel was a much better player then. But thats another discussion.

[Mad Men]

I thought he looked quite lively at Newcastle actually and should have got a go v Wolves from the off.

Don't get me wrong he is massively frustrating but I think had he been better managed he'd be a decent player now.

Yes. But I think the problem with this is, our financial problems made it so difficult for Rafa that IF he did sell/off load Babel, there was no guarrantee he would be able to buy a replacement for the money he got from the transfer because of what was going on behind the scenes.

I think Babel has a lot of potential but was not suited to Rafa's style of tactics. Or management. But the club's situation certainly didn't help anyone.

[bigbear]

Again is that the fault of the managers and the coaching staff or the player?  If you count international level that makes 3 management teams that have failed to get more out of him.   If he had the ability and desire there is no doubt that he could have been a decent player but we are still seeing the same Ryan Babel that we saw when he arrived.  You would think that something would have clicked by now

A year ago Nani was a bit of a laughing stock, now he's very rated again because he had a manager who just backed him and gave him adequate game time. Babel's first season showed his ability and he scored 10-15 goals as a kid, I just think Benitez was very much the wrong type of manager for him and vice versa.

Rafa judged his players and picked his side on training performances an awful lot which may not always mean the best players are picked, just the best trainers. He also wasn't known for the arm round the shoulder treatement.

[bigbear]

Dont think he binned him, he was used in exactly the right way IMO. Plus Skrtel was a much better player then. But thats another discussion.

He was certainly deemed to be behind him. I was just making the point that manager's are not always right.

[Cpt_Reina]

Yes. But I think the problem with this is, our financial problems made it so difficult for Rafa that IF he did sell/off load Babel, there was no guarrantee he would be able to buy a replacement for the money he got from the transfer because of what was going on behind the scenes.

I think Babel has a lot of potential but was not suited to Rafa's style of tactics. Or management. But the club's situation certainly didn't help anyone.

I think this pretty much sums up Babel under Rafa. Square pegs and round holes.

[Cpt_Reina]

He was certainly deemed to be behind him. I was just making the point that manager's are not always right.

He was but he was heading towards the end of his career (hes enjoying an indian summer) and Rafa was looking to bring in a replacement. Hyypia was used sparingly as a player of his age might be, he was highly unable to play 3 games a week and Rafa had to look to the future.

I know the point you were making, but I stand by point that Hodgson is not someone i consider a great judge of a footballer, his signings and those he attempted to bring in (C Cole, for example) point to that, not to mention his treatment of Agger. And so for that reason I wouldnt place any sort of value on him not fancying Babel.

[Cadno]

A year ago Nani was a bit of a laughing stock, now he's very rated again because he had a manager who just backed him and gave him adequate game time. Babel's first season showed his ability and he scored 10-15 goals as a kid, I just think Benitez was very much the wrong type of manager for him and vice versa.

Rafa judged his players and picked his side on training performances an awful lot which may not always mean the best players are picked, just the best trainers. He also wasn't known for the arm round the shoulder treatement.

It's a circular argument.  Was nani give time for the sake of being given time or did he prove to the coaching staff that he could learn and develop?  Like I said Babel makes the same mistakes now that he has always done.  Would even utd have given him time if he showed little progression?

[bigbear]

It's a circular argument.  Was nani give time for the sake of being given time or did he prove to the coaching staff that he could learn and develop?  Like I said Babel makes the same mistakes now that he has always done.  Would even utd have given him time if he showed little progression?

Who knows ?

[bigbear]

He was but he was heading towards the end of his career (hes enjoying an indian summer) and Rafa was looking to bring in a replacement. Hyypia was used sparingly as a player of his age might be, he was highly unable to play 3 games a week and Rafa had to look to the future.

I know the point you were making, but I stand by point that Hodgson is not someone i consider a great judge of a footballer, his signings and those he attempted to bring in (C Cole, for example) point to that, not to mention his treatment of Agger. And so for that reason I wouldnt place any sort of value on him not fancying Babel.

No, I am agreeing with you by pointing out that all managers including Hodgson and Rafa make bad calls.

[Cpt_Reina]

No, I am agreeing with you by pointing out that all managers including Hodgson and Rafa make bad calls.

Ah, indeed.

Hopefully Babel can be given some game time from now until the end of the season so that he might still prove his worth, I honestly think he wants to prove himself here. And if not it could be a shop window type thing, win win.

[Rohit]

A year ago Nani was a bit of a laughing stock, now he's very rated again because he had a manager who just backed him and gave him adequate game time. Babel's first season showed his ability and he scored 10-15 goals as a kid, I just think Benitez was very much the wrong type of manager for him and vice versa.

Rafa judged his players and picked his side on training performances an awful lot which may not always mean the best players are picked, just the best trainers. He also wasn't known for the arm round the shoulder treatement.

Id agree with that mate nani was a joke till things clicked for him against arsenal when he had good game, bacon face kept playing and he didnt have the same impact in all games but gave the lad a chance and now his final ball is better as is his decision making. Babel had a few good outings like aston villa this year but gets dropped no matter what, imagine what that does for a players confidence. If i was babel i would have fucked off along time ago as he is not being played and his career is being destroyed. I mean i dont want to bring ngog into this as he is improving but he at times was shite and kept being played game after game same with dirk.
But babel got dropped after a good outing and then is relegated to being a super sub, this isnt right in my opinion. As a defender id be more afraid of ryan than i would of ngog thats for sure. I really hope kenny plays him becuase i think kenny could get the best out of him and he has given jovanovic and poulsen a chance i think it would only be fair if he did the same with babel.

[penga]

Hard to give anyone a starting spot if they did jack shite for 70 minutes when they are given an opportunity to start the week before. And then do that consistently whenever they are given a league start.

Europe aside, Babel has been poor whenever he has started a league match.

So Kuyt can have 10 bad games in a row where he misplaces a heap of passes, miscontrols a heap of balls and runs into blind alleys and you are perfectly happy with the fact he retains his starting place every week despite him only having 3 good games the enitre season (WBA, Chelsea, Everton). No one seems to mind and they just bring up the "hard work" card.

While for Babel he is automatically criticised for his 1 start per month despite not giving the ball away anywhere near as much on such a consistent basis and even when he plays well e.g. against Villa he is dropped and only comes on in 3 out of the last 6 matches as sub where he looks more dangerous than the rest of the team yet you fail to acknowledge this.

Before the Villa match he only played 52 minutes in the league and after it he has only played 51 minutes, no one can really argue he deserves much more playing time than this especially with the team playing so badly and Babel providing an automatic threat with his pace/shot/cross. I mean even Jovanovic (who was frozen out) has played 250 more minutes than Babel this season, Poulsen almost 400 more.

[ds2190]

We have ruined this lads career.

Really really sad and as a player with potential I would think twice about coming to LFC.

I agree. While I appreciate that there have been attitude issues, he had bags of potential when he joined us and hasn't had enough playing time.

[Wesley Pipes]

I agree. While I appreciate that there have been attitude issues, he had bags of potential when he joined us and hasn't had enough playing time.

He is the answer to our issues of being able to get the ball from midfield to the box.

The guy is so quick, has loads of skill and a vicious shot. Lesser teams would base their whole games around him and would have loads of success.

I would give him the right flank to run like the wind, take on and do whatever he needs to do to get in behind there defense. By far our best wide option and also the one least used.

[Discipline]

Play him for the rest of the season. If he does good, keep him. If not, sell him and buy a new LW. Simple eh?

I do think we killed his career though. He was such of a gem of a player at Ajax. 

[PJG]

Play him for the rest of the season. If he does good, keep him. If not, sell him and buy a new LW. Simple eh?

I do think we killed his career though. He was such of a gem of a player at Ajax. 

His first season with us was great and He's only 24 so he has still got time..hopefully.

[helmboy_nige]

I've always wondered how a player like Babel would do in a liverpool team with a more attacking, creative outlook.  As much as I loved Rafa he was very structured and a little defensive (though not as OTT as Houllier).

It would be good, if only for the back end of the season, to see Bable given some creative freedom in an attacking liverpool side.

[Marko B]

He is the answer to our issues of being able to get the ball from midfield to the box.

The guy is so quick, has loads of skill and a vicious shot. Lesser teams would base their whole games around him and would have loads of success.

I would give him the right flank to run like the wind, take on and do whatever he needs to do to get in behind there defense. By far our best wide option and also the one least used.

He is also a massive contributor to losing the ball and breaking up any cohesion in our attacks with his erratic decision making. None of which is compatible with being an ever present in the passing side it appears the King is (correctly) attempting to mould because of the disruption to attacks and the vulnerability to counter-attacks when the ball is lost prematurely before we entrench our positions (especially so considering it looks like we are only holding position with one central midfielder rather than two now).

[Discipline]

He is also a massive contributor to losing the ball and breaking up any cohesion in our attacks with his erratic decision making. None of which is compatible with being an ever present in the passing side it appears the King is (correctly) attempting to mould because of the disruption to attacks and the vulnerability to counter-attacks when the ball is lost prematurely before we entrench our positions (especially so considering it looks like we are only holding position with one central midfielder rather than two now).

Oh come on. All our players choke when they pass in the final third. It's just not Babel ffs.

[Mad Men]

Oh come on. All our players choke when they pass in the final third. It's just not Babel ffs.

But he does it consistently when he does play and here lies a problem.

[Discipline]

But he does it consistently when he does play and here lies a problem.

Man, if we had a decent back-line/defensive midfielder you wouldn't be that worried. I mean, everyone loses the ball in the final third. Some of the best players consistantly screw it up up there. I'd just like to see how he does until the end of the season. He's our best LW after all.

[Vidocq]

I'm sure he's not perfect but I'd prefer him over Ngog for example who got about 15-20 starts this year. Babel had about 4 and scored twice.

fuck,i REALLY forgot he's a striker...i'd prefer him over Ngogo too..he's miles better player

and he said so many times that he wants to play as striker...

Nando,Suarez,Ngogo,Babel...sounds good to me...maybe babel-suarez partnership would be better than nando-suarez

[Neil D]

He is the answer to our issues of being able to get the ball from midfield to the box.

The guy is so quick, has loads of skill and a vicious shot. Lesser teams would base their whole games around him and would have loads of success.

I would give him the right flank to run like the wind, take on and do whatever he needs to do to get in behind there defense. By far our best wide option and also the one least used.

Let's sign this guy up! He sounds awesome.

Hang on, are you talking about Babel? Ryan Babel?

He's nowhere near our best option out wide and never has been.

[Discipline]

Let's sign this guy up! He sounds awesome.

Hang on, are you talking about Babel? Ryan Babel?

He's nowhere near our best option out wide and never has been.

Oh come on Neil, who's better? Jova? Kuyt?

[Vidocq]

Let's sign this guy up! He sounds awesome.

Hang on, are you talking about Babel? Ryan Babel?

He's nowhere near our best option out wide and never has been.

he can score some great goals.People have short memories these days...he won a game for us against mancs not so long ago,epic goal against turks,against chelsea etc...i wish we keep him






 

[Fuzion6]

He is also a massive contributor to losing the ball and breaking up any cohesion in our attacks with his erratic decision making. None of which is compatible with being an ever present in the passing side it appears the King is (correctly) attempting to mould because of the disruption to attacks and the vulnerability to counter-attacks when the ball is lost prematurely before we entrench our positions (especially so considering it looks like we are only holding position with one central midfielder rather than two now).

And you think Kuyt doesn't lose the ball all the time?!?!

[ChaChaMooMoo]

he can score some great goals.People have short memories these days...he won a game for us against mancs not so long ago,epic goal against turks,against chelsea etc...i wish we keep him

and the counterattack goal against arsenal in CL.

[penga]

But he does it consistently when he does play and here lies a problem.

But he does it less than Kuyt and provides more general threat than Kuyt, Jova or Maxi.

[OneTouchFooty]

Why would it harm giving him the run of the right wing? Don't think we could create any fewer chances right now and Kuyt seems to have been accepted that he can be dogshit every week then throw in 1 performance once a season. We have nothing to lose and don't give it the bollocks that Dirk is a better 'presser' and gives good defensive cover, we need a winger that can beat a man..Babel can and should be given games, otherwise just get rid and stop messing him around.

[Vidocq]

and the counterattack goal against arsenal in CL.

oh i forgot that...that was fucking amazing goal