Topic: Atheism

[GreatEx]

Uh, iska is a witch burner? I disagreed with him on many things but that seems a bit OTT, unless there's some specific posts anyone can be arsed digging out.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Iska returning to this thread: What the Beelzebub has happened here? Burn you heathens, burn!

* I do feel a bit guilty ribbing Iska without him being here. Hopefully he will return and read our comments. I'll feel much better then.

He certainly wouldn't be the first to announce they were leaving and come back

[Jiminy Cricket]

Uh, iska is a witch burner? I disagreed with him on many things but that seems a bit OTT, unless there's some specific posts anyone can be arsed digging out.

It is tongue in cheek. Or, somewhat at least. Iska is very conservative in his beliefs, to put it mildly.

[Jiminy Cricket]

He certainly wouldn't be the first to announce they were leaving and come back

For what it is worth, I did not always disagree with Iska. Although many here disagreed, he once stated what I thought were some very well formulated comments on a transgender matter, and I commented as such. (But let's not get into that now). So, I would actually appreciate his return. If nothing else, his views seem genuinely held and can be a useful foil for the rest of us.

[Kenny's Jacket]

For what it is worth, I did not always disagree with Iska. Although many here disagreed, he once stated what I thought were some very well formulated comments on a transgender matter, and I commented as such. (But let's not get into that now). So, I would actually appreciate his return. If nothing else, his views seem genuinely held and can be a useful foil for the rest of us.

His comments certainly sparked debate. Although he would avoid things on occasion.
His opposition to abortion for example.

That said I hope he comes back

[Yorkykopite]

Uh, iska is a witch burner? I disagreed with him on many things but that seems a bit OTT, unless there's some specific posts anyone can be arsed digging out.

Only one, where he said he’d have loved to have been a Witch-Finder General.

It is tongue-in-cheek obviously. Being a religious chap Iska would just have likely ended up being chained to the faggots as lighting them. Fortunately for Iska he lives in a rapidly secularising world. One of the nice things about living in such a world is that the individual can practise his or her religion without fear.

[Corkboy]

Remote intercessory prayer had no significant effect on the primary outcome of mortality or the secondary outcomes, including the length of hospitalization, ICU stay, and the need for and duration of mechanical ventilation on patients with COVID -19

I know, I was shocked too.

The objective of this study was to evaluate the effect of intercessory prayer performed by a group of spiritual leaders on the health outcomes of hospitalized patients with Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) infection, specifically focusing on mortality and hospitalization rates. Design: This was a double-blinded, controlled, and randomized trial conducted at a private hospital in São Paulo, Brazil. Interventions: Both groups continued to receive their usual medical care in accordance with HCor Hospital's institutional patient care protocol for COVID-19 patients. Intervention: Both groups received their regular medical care according to HCor's institutional patient care protocol for COVID-19 patients. The intervention group, in addition to standard treatment, received intercessory prayers performed by a group of spiritual leaders. Main outcome measures: The primary endpoint was in-hospital mortality. Secondary endpoints included the need for mechanical ventilation during hospitalization, duration of mechanical ventilation, length of ICU stay, and length of hospital stay. Results: A total of 199 participants were randomly assigned to the groups. The primary outcome, in-hospital mortality, occurred in 8 out of 100 (8.0 %) patients in the intercessory prayer group and 8 out of 99 (8.1 %) patients in the control group (HR 0.86 [0.32 to 2.31]; p = 0.76). Additionally, there were no significant differences between the groups in terms of secondary outcomes. Conclusion: The study found no evidence of an effect of intercessory prayer on the primary outcome of mortality or on the secondary outcomes of hospitalization time, ICU time, and mechanical ventilation time.

[Chakan]

Remote intercessory prayer had no significant effect on the primary outcome of mortality or the secondary outcomes, including the length of hospitalization, ICU stay, and the need for and duration of mechanical ventilation on patients with COVID -19

I know, I was shocked too.

The objective of this study was to evaluate the effect of intercessory prayer performed by a group of spiritual leaders on the health outcomes of hospitalized patients with Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) infection, specifically focusing on mortality and hospitalization rates. Design: This was a double-blinded, controlled, and randomized trial conducted at a private hospital in São Paulo, Brazil. Interventions: Both groups continued to receive their usual medical care in accordance with HCor Hospital's institutional patient care protocol for COVID-19 patients. Intervention: Both groups received their regular medical care according to HCor's institutional patient care protocol for COVID-19 patients. The intervention group, in addition to standard treatment, received intercessory prayers performed by a group of spiritual leaders. Main outcome measures: The primary endpoint was in-hospital mortality. Secondary endpoints included the need for mechanical ventilation during hospitalization, duration of mechanical ventilation, length of ICU stay, and length of hospital stay. Results: A total of 199 participants were randomly assigned to the groups. The primary outcome, in-hospital mortality, occurred in 8 out of 100 (8.0 %) patients in the intercessory prayer group and 8 out of 99 (8.1 %) patients in the control group (HR 0.86 [0.32 to 2.31]; p = 0.76). Additionally, there were no significant differences between the groups in terms of secondary outcomes. Conclusion: The study found no evidence of an effect of intercessory prayer on the primary outcome of mortality or on the secondary outcomes of hospitalization time, ICU time, and mechanical ventilation time.

Well, god works in mysterious ways. So there.

[Yorkykopite]

Fair play to the clerics who agreed to take part. They must be gutted now.

On Friday evening I went to a contemporary dance thingumy-bob which was hosted by a celebrated church in Littlemore, just outside Oxford. It's celebrated because it was built by Cardinal Newman who, famously, went from being Anglican to Roman Catholic while he was there. In the intermission I read the church pamphlet, like you do, where it was explained that intercessory prayer DOES work. Indeed - and this was said with a straight face - the ghost of Cardinal Newman was still curing people today in what the Vatican considers to be official "miracles". The last bloke he cured (from lumbago I think) was a church deacon in Massachusetts two years ago.

So put that in yer pipe....

[Corkboy]

Fair play to the clerics who agreed to take part. They must be gutted now.

On Friday evening I went to a contemporary dance thingumy-bob which was hosted by a celebrated church in Littlemore, just outside Oxford. It's celebrated because it was built by Cardinal Newman who, famously, went from being Anglican to Roman Catholic while he was there. In the intermission I read the church pamphlet, like you do, where it was explained that intercessory prayer DOES work. Indeed - and this was said with a straight face - the ghost of Cardinal Newman was still curing people today in what the Vatican considers to be official "miracles". The last bloke he cured (from lumbago I think) was a church deacon in Massachusetts two years ago.

So put that in yer pipe....

I recall Newman had some ideas about a university.

[Yorkykopite]

He was certainly - and unforgettably - portrayed by Lytton Strachey in 'Eminent Victorians'.

[thejbs]

Well, god works in mysterious ways. So there.

"You shall not put the Lord your God to the test"

I mean, it literally says in the bible that you cannot test God, therefore these studies are meaningless. If anything, the lack of statistically significant difference proves that God exists because he refused to be tested and made the prayer results identical.

[So… Howard Philips]

Fair play to the clerics who agreed to take part. They must be gutted now.

On Friday evening I went to a contemporary dance thingumy-bob which was hosted by a celebrated church in Littlemore, just outside Oxford. It's celebrated because it was built by Cardinal Newman who, famously, went from being Anglican to Roman Catholic while he was there. In the intermission I read the church pamphlet, like you do, where it was explained that intercessory prayer DOES work. Indeed - and this was said with a straight face - the ghost of Cardinal Newman was still curing people today in what the Vatican considers to be official "miracles". The last bloke he cured (from lumbago I think) was a church deacon in Massachusetts two years ago.

So put that in yer pipe....

Sure it wasn’t the fella in the Small Faces 1968 hit?

“Here we all are sittin' in a rainbow
Go blimey hello, Mrs. Jones
How's old Bert's lumbago?
(He mustn't grumble)”

[Yorkykopite]

Sure it wasn’t the fella in the Small Faces 1968 hit?

“Here we all are sittin' in a rainbow
Go blimey hello, Mrs. Jones
How's old Bert's lumbago?
(He mustn't grumble)”

I think it was Mother Theresa who cured Bert's.

[thejbs]

UCKG: Church tells boy 'evil spirit' hides in him https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67592961

Barbarism. But it’s ok because Christianity is gentle and kind and loving.

[Nobby Reserve]

UCKG: Church tells boy 'evil spirit' hides in him https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67592961

Barbarism. But it’s ok because Christianity is gentle and kind and loving.

These churches are parasites that prey on vulnerability

[thejbs]

These churches are parasites that prey on vulnerability

I’d say all churches do, at some level.

[Nobby Reserve]

I’d say all churches do, at some level.

And I wouldn't really argue with you 

[Nobby Reserve]

Meanwhile in France, Muslimists are throwing yet another tantrum because they can't at all get their brainwashed heads around the principle of secularism.

This time, it's about an art teacher showing an art class a painting by Renaissance artist Cesari. The classical painting showed some nudity, and some Muslimist pupils objected. Some then lied that the teacher had made racist comments and insulted their sky fairy.

Cue Muslimist parents having a paddy and posting the teacher's details online.

This after, in the past few years, two teachers have been murdered by Muslimists who are similarly insecure about their sky fairy shite.

Teachers at the school had refused to attend and teach, citing a genuine fear for their lives.

Education Minister Gabriel Attal said the pupils behind the complaints at the Jacques-Cartier school would face disciplinary measures and a team would visit the school to make sure it adhered to "values of the republic".

Good to see the government there facing down this bullshit.

[TepidT2O]

If you can’t show classic art because of nudity….in France of all places, then you have a real problem.

[Robinred]

I take deep offence at people of faith taking offence at perceived blasphemy etc. If their faith was truly strong, stuff such as this would be shrugged off. Instead, they reveal their essential insecurity.

[TepidT2O]

We (the UK) currently have a teacher who is living in hiding two years after receiving death threats for showing pictures of Mohammed to his class.

Utterly sick.

[Nobby Reserve]

We (the UK) currently have a teacher who is living in hiding two years after receiving death threats for showing pictures of Mohammed to his class.

Utterly sick.

It's appalling.

A rubicon was crossed when the British police and government did nothing about the hoards of rioting Muslimists in the wake of the Salman Rushdie book. It emboldened the more lunatic fringe to tantrum about any perceived slight.

[Yorkykopite]

It's why the phrase "Islamophobia" is so objectionable. According to the bye-laws of the local Labour Party I'm a member of I should not be Islamophobic. Well I'm not. I have no phobia about it at all. But I do know that Islam is bullshit and that it seems to send many adherents do-lally (as Christianity does too I hasten to add in cowardly fashion). But imagine actually saying that at a branch meeting of the Labour Party!

No secular society worth its salt should shrug its shoulders when there are signs that a religious group is flexing its muscles and handing out threats to non-believers.

[Nobby Reserve]

It's why the phrase "Islamophobia" is so objectionable. According to the bye-laws of the local Labour Party I'm a member of I should not be Islamophobic. Well I'm not. I have no phobia about it at all. But I do know that Islam is bullshit and that it seems to send many adherents do-lally (as Christianity does too I hasten to add in cowardly fashion). But imagine actually saying that at a branch meeting of the Labour Party!

No secular society worth its salt should shrug its shoulders when there are signs that a religious group is flexing its muscles and handing out threats to non-believers.

Agreed (and almost all major faiths are similarly guilty - you left out Hinduism and Judaism, which both have no shortage of zealous nutjobs)

[Yorkykopite]

Agreed (and almost all major faiths are similarly guilty - you left out Hinduism and Judaism, which both have no shortage of zealous nutjobs)

Yeah, that's true. Judaism is not evangelical of course, nor interested in creating converts. And fundamentalist Hindus are a menace (especially to Muslims) in India. But the principal religion with a gun in its hand over the last decades has been Islam.

[Nobby Reserve]

Yeah, that's true. Judaism is not evangelical of course, nor interested in creating converts. And fundamentalist Hindus are a menace (especially to Muslims) in India. But the principal religion with a gun in its hand over the last decades has been Islam.

Yes.

Apart from in the Good Ol' US of A, where being a fundamentalist Christo-fascist seems to go hand in hand with having an actual real - not metaphorical - gun in the hand.

[thejbs]

I’ve equal contempt for them all, to be honest.

Let’s look at the good ole Catholic Church in Ireland that is swimming in riches yet has my septuagenarian mum and other ladies of that age cleaning the church and parochial house for free. Misogyny and basically slave labour. They’ll say they’re volunteers but it’s very much intimated that this is a duty not a choice.

[Sangria]

Yes.

Apart from in the Good Ol' US of A, where being a fundamentalist Christo-fascist seems to go hand in hand with having an actual real - not metaphorical - gun in the hand.

We don't live in the US though.

[Nobby Reserve]

We don't live in the US though.

And for that I give thanks each day.

But we were talking more globally (the original story was in France)

[So… Howard Philips]

And for that I give thanks each day.

But we were talking more globally (the original story was in France)

And America put on the Scooes comedy trial as well;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopes_trial

And good in the French for defending their secular values - a similar scenario in this country would lead to an avalanche of weasel words.

[GreatEx]

And good in the French for defending their secular values - a similar scenario in this country would lead to an avalanche of weasel words.

They do indeed defend "laïcité" unapologetically; one notable example is Charlie Hebdo, but unfortunately there were a few people on RAWK who interpreted their robust secularism as racism and even hinted they got what was coming to them.

[TepidT2O]

They do indeed defend "laïcité" unapologetically; one notable example is Charlie Hebdo, but unfortunately there were a few people on RAWK who interpreted their robust secularism as racism and even hinted they got what was coming to them.

Even if it was racist, it was still wrong to kill them of course.

Is killing in cold blood wrong? Yes. Much of the world need to refer to old stories to decide. Being an atheist means you actually have to think about it a bit more !

[Yorkykopite]

They do indeed defend "laïcité" unapologetically; one notable example is Charlie Hebdo, but unfortunately there were a few people on RAWK who interpreted their robust secularism as racism and even hinted they got what was coming to them.

It would be worse today. There'd be at least one person saying "pictures, or it never happened." And another saying "they did it to themselves."

[thejbs]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp9w93p0zgwo

A woman accused of murdering her three-year-old son admitted she hit him with a bamboo cane to "chastise him as the bible allowed", a court has heard.

Religion is harmless, though…

[WhereAngelsPlay]

And I've more respect for that sick bitch than I do for the rest of the pick n mix twats.

[thejbs]

Michaela School: Muslim student loses prayer ban challenge https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68731366

Important ruling for secular schools. The religion ban is completely non-discriminatory and I’m glad the courts saw sense.

[TepidT2O]

Michaela School: Muslim student loses prayer ban challenge https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68731366

Important ruling for secular schools. The religion ban is completely non-discriminatory and I’m glad the courts saw sense.

I’m not sure this would apply to all schools though, but would in their context.

[thejbs]

I’m not sure this would apply to all schools though, but would in their context.

No, but it does apply to independent and private secular schools. It’s a good start.

[TepidT2O]

No, but it does apply to independent and private secular schools. It’s a good start.

It was a thoughtful judgement and I was impressed that the judge listened to the school’s case and situation carefully