Author Topic: UAPs over America: real or balloons??  (Read 72208 times)

Offline Dr. Beaker

  • Veo, to his mates. Shares 50% of his DNA with a banana. Would dearly love to strangle Frankengoose. Lo! Be he not ye Messiah, verily be he a child of questionable conduct in the eyes of Ye Holy Border Guards.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,801
  • I... think I am, therefore...I....maybe.
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #160 on: May 15, 2023, 12:37:27 pm »
We are Devo.
NAKED BOOBERY

Rile-Me costed L. Nee-Naw "The Child" Torrence the first jack the hat-trick since Eon Rush vs Accursed Toffos, many moons passed. Nee-Naw he could have done a concreted his palace in the pantyhose off the LibPole Gods...was not was for the invented intervention of Rile-Me whistler.

Offline lionel_messias

  • likes pulling cocker spaniels out of Kim Kardassian's ass
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,592
  • 'You can throw your plan in the purple bin'
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #161 on: May 15, 2023, 01:15:56 pm »

I think evangelical lifestyles don't help. Ignoring "mainstream" science and having absolute faith in something one cannot prove leads to a susceptibility to these things.
Hence why right wing american conservatives seem so such easy prey to Qanon.

The UFO grift started before the advent of the internet but it proved that many in middle America could be suckered into believing aliens rather than military tech.
The internet has simply made things much, much worse.
Its not just UFO's though.

Fake moon landings
Adrenochrome
Flat Earth
Hollow Earth
Vaccine microchips/magnetism
George Soros
Kent Hovind of Patriot Bible University claiming men lived alongside Dinosaurs.

It just goes on.

I sometimes feel we are watching people devolve in front of our eyes. Its like a reverse enlightenment.



Really not sure what any of that has to do with what I've written there in my post? Or have been saying since I started this thread.

There are some incidents that need to be investigated. They are real, they are verifiable. One of the public-facing guys in this is Doctor Sean Kirkpatrick, a scientist who heads up AARO, appointed by Congress. His current position is "None of what we've investigated contains any evidence of extra-terrestrial technology." That is where we are in Congress but testimonies are apparently happening.

"George Soros conspiracies" and all that other shite can be looked at elsewhere.
Follow me on twatter: @JDMessias

Offline thejbs

  • well-focussed, deffo not at all bias......ed
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,809
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #162 on: May 15, 2023, 01:32:23 pm »
If the government had something, it would unquestionably been leaked from the fat mouth of Donald J Trump before now.

Offline Dr. Beaker

  • Veo, to his mates. Shares 50% of his DNA with a banana. Would dearly love to strangle Frankengoose. Lo! Be he not ye Messiah, verily be he a child of questionable conduct in the eyes of Ye Holy Border Guards.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,801
  • I... think I am, therefore...I....maybe.
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #163 on: May 15, 2023, 01:52:43 pm »
If the government had something, it would unquestionably been leaked from the fat mouth of Donald J Trump before now.
He probably didn't have clearance.
NAKED BOOBERY

Rile-Me costed L. Nee-Naw "The Child" Torrence the first jack the hat-trick since Eon Rush vs Accursed Toffos, many moons passed. Nee-Naw he could have done a concreted his palace in the pantyhose off the LibPole Gods...was not was for the invented intervention of Rile-Me whistler.

Offline lobsterboy

  • Sworn enemy of crayfishgirl. Likes to draw spunking cocks n balls at sunday school
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,904
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #164 on: May 15, 2023, 02:08:31 pm »
Really not sure what any of that has to do with what I've written there in my post? Or have been saying since I started this thread.

There are some incidents that need to be investigated. They are real, they are verifiable. One of the public-facing guys in this is Doctor Sean Kirkpatrick, a scientist who heads up AARO, appointed by Congress. His current position is "None of what we've investigated contains any evidence of extra-terrestrial technology." That is where we are in Congress but testimonies are apparently happening.

"George Soros conspiracies" and all that other shite can be looked at elsewhere.

I'm not saying there aren't some cases of unexplained phenomena in our sky that require further investigation but 99% of the stuff is explainable or hoaxed.

The other post wasn't aimed at you really.
Simply agreeing with earlier posts that a great deal of this is similar to other conspiracy theories, such as the Qanon nonsense, the lizard people, the illuminati (or Hunter Biden's laptop)
Always a big reveal coming, all this top secret stuff being "discovered" all so super top secret its only available on youtube or a Joe Rogan podcast.

Of course that doesn't mean all advocates (including yourself) follow any of that other stuff or that there isn't anything unexplained out there still to discover.

Offline rob1966

  • YORKIE bar-munching, hedgehog-squashing (well-)articulated road-hog-litter-bug. Sleeping With The Enemy. Has felt the wind and shed his anger..... did you know I drive a Jag? Cucking funt!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 46,839
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #165 on: May 15, 2023, 02:10:24 pm »
There’s no credible evidence that the Roswell incident was a UFO crash. What there is, though, is a muddle of conflations, contradictions and obstinacy towards actual evidence. As a kid I always associated the ‘greys’ with roswell, but it was 40 years after 1947 before anyone started connecting them to Roswell. In fact, the first mention of these aliens was after the Betty and Benny Hill (yes, I know) incident. Under hypnosis, Hill first described the ‘greys’. However, this was a fortnight after an outer limits episode that depicted bald, grey (it was black and white) aliens with bulbous heads and wraparound eyes.

I always thought it was Spielberg's Close Encounters that first introduced the greys in the form we know them, it's the first time I can ever remember aliens being 3ft tall, hairless anf featureless and having bulging eyes. The aliens I remember them portraying before that were always humanoids, UFO, Forbidden Planet or huge as in The Blob.
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Offline liverbloke

  • Prototype RAWK Genius. Founder of stickysheets.com and prefers it solo. Gotta hand it to him, eh?
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,388
  • i neither know nor care
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #166 on: May 15, 2023, 02:21:35 pm »
it's like religion to the people who don't like religion

an ultra being with the power to traverse the universe - even though that seems impossible - and travelling in fantastic craft

i always imagine the garage where these 'fantastic crafts' are serviced before their missions - is there an alion grease-monkey smoking a fag and shaking his head? or are they all superior super beings? but if so then surely someone has to make the crafts? pour in the alion fuel? buff uo the exterior and check for chips and cracks?

another problem i have is that why oh why is it always the governments the alions go to? id they are 'observing' us then surely they know they're all ne'er do wells?

and just because some people who have viewed strange objects are pilots does not make it any more important - they too can suffer hallucinations due to stress, pressure, mental fatigue and just getting it wrong!!!!

all the cameras all the fucking cameras - all this fucking shit and not a decent high quality video of either an alion or his craft

it's just like the 80s when it was all just blurred spots of light on a shaky camera

yes, there will be things that are unexplainable bt just because they are does not mean that that explanation is going to be little green grey men - and where are all the little grey gals?

sexist bastards
Quote from: Lee1-6Liv
Who would have thought liverblokes no draws idea would not be his worst idea of the weekend

Offline rob1966

  • YORKIE bar-munching, hedgehog-squashing (well-)articulated road-hog-litter-bug. Sleeping With The Enemy. Has felt the wind and shed his anger..... did you know I drive a Jag? Cucking funt!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 46,839
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #167 on: May 15, 2023, 02:40:02 pm »
it's like religion to the people who don't like religion

an ultra being with the power to traverse the universe - even though that seems impossible - and travelling in fantastic craft

i always imagine the garage where these 'fantastic crafts' are serviced before their missions - is there an alion grease-monkey smoking a fag and shaking his head? or are they all superior super beings? but if so then surely someone has to make the crafts? pour in the alion fuel? buff uo the exterior and check for chips and cracks?

another problem i have is that why oh why is it always the governments the alions go to? id they are 'observing' us then surely they know they're all ne'er do wells?

and just because some people who have viewed strange objects are pilots does not make it any more important - they too can suffer hallucinations due to stress, pressure, mental fatigue and just getting it wrong!!!!

all the cameras all the fucking cameras - all this fucking shit and not a decent high quality video of either an alion or his craft

it's just like the 80s when it was all just blurred spots of light on a shaky camera

yes, there will be things that are unexplainable bt just because they are does not mean that that explanation is going to be little green grey men - and where are all the little grey gals?

sexist bastards

Peli Motto services their ships


Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Offline Dr. Beaker

  • Veo, to his mates. Shares 50% of his DNA with a banana. Would dearly love to strangle Frankengoose. Lo! Be he not ye Messiah, verily be he a child of questionable conduct in the eyes of Ye Holy Border Guards.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,801
  • I... think I am, therefore...I....maybe.
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #168 on: May 15, 2023, 02:45:28 pm »
it's like religion to the people who don't like religion
It's mostly like religion because it totally relies on faith.
NAKED BOOBERY

Rile-Me costed L. Nee-Naw "The Child" Torrence the first jack the hat-trick since Eon Rush vs Accursed Toffos, many moons passed. Nee-Naw he could have done a concreted his palace in the pantyhose off the LibPole Gods...was not was for the invented intervention of Rile-Me whistler.

Offline Riquende

  • Taking one for the team by giving one to a lucky mascot? Pix or stfu!! (Although is PC is from the 90s so you'll have to wait a while...)
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,782
  • Μετρήστε με με μανία
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #169 on: May 15, 2023, 02:49:43 pm »
:o  Hmm.

I have no interest in conspiracy theories and to be conflated with MAGA or Qanon people----my only response would be "wow".

You'll need to stop using the same language they do then, because as I said, the recent posts on this subject in this thread are largely the same sort of energy as I've seen across political conspiracies going back years.

And as for your 'serious realists', the conspiracy lunatics can point to people like retired Army General & National Security Advisor Michael Flynn, former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani, wealthy businessman Mike Lindell, or a whole slew of credentialled lawyers such as Sydney Powell or Lin Wood  (to say nothing of serving members of Congress like Boebert). At the Cyber Symposium they wheeled out all sorts of election, computer & statistics experts who gave dull, technical presentations on how Biden's win couldn't have been legitimate and so that 'proves' the claimed fraud.

To most of us these are hilarious yet dangerous crackpots, but if you're already primed to believe the stuff they're peddling then you can ignore or make excuses for any nonsense and maintain a belief that these successful, respected professionals must be on to something, even in the face of 'MSM' mockery.

« Last Edit: May 15, 2023, 05:13:32 pm by Riquende »
"The nicest thing about quotes is that they give us a nodding acquaintance with the originator which is often socially impressive."

~ Kenneth Williams, with whom I'm noddingly acquainted. Socially impressed?

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,392
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #170 on: May 15, 2023, 03:02:38 pm »

Wow, your two viewpoints:

1) Nope, nothing is going to happen.

2) Even if it does, no one will give a shit because it is not Guardians of the Galaxy.

Not a fan of either view, they are really quite negative and are pretty easy to maintain without challenging.

I tend to think there is a real pheneomon going on and when serious people are talking about it for decades, they are not ALL in it to make money.

The machanism for disclosure will have to be boring, career legislators in the US getting exposed to real data to the point where it can be revealed.

Not sitting on the fence: I fully expect this to be happening.


They are negative views because of the abysmal level of critical thinking and analysis on the part of the UFO/UAP proponents. It does take effort to challenge the stuff that gets put out because it's so often put out with limited critical analysis by the UAP proponents.

Here's a classic example of the kind of credulous shite that is accepted as evidence. A white UFO travelling at 10x the speed of sound analysed by three 'experts', none of them realising that it's almost certainly a bit of fluff close to the drone, not a massive white alien craft travelling at thousands of miles an hour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6uNISoNWV4

I can't count the number of times I've read that some blob or lights in the sky are moving at impossible speeds, performing impossible manouvres, travelling without visible means of propulsion - all as evidence that they couldn't possibly be using human technology.

Maybe you'll be proved right. It would be amazing if there was real evidence of aliens and interstellar travel. I'd be fine with that because it's all about the evidence for me.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,392
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #171 on: May 15, 2023, 03:12:50 pm »
So they can't identify what they are seeing, and who can? Commander David Fravor was over 15 years into a naval aviator career. He had seen satellites, he had seen helicopters, he had all sorts of weather situations. So when he sees an object come out of the Ocean, rise above his F18 and then mimic his movements, before shooting off at ridiculous speed, he surmises this object was NOT a balloon, NOT a drone and almost certainly not of foreign adversarial origin.

Radar tapes exist to back that up. In fact, his squadron had been tracking those objects for at least 2 weeks prior to his encounter. What I'm saying is there will be better data about such objects which has been classified. More than likely because the sensors that recorded the data are themselves classified. Someone said recently Norad-style sensors have recorded objects entering the atmosphere from Space.

So let's understand what these things are, and let the US intelligence community and Pentagon finally front up with what they know. We can handle it, we've had Trump, Covid, Putin's war. I think we're grown up enough now.

Just to pick up on something here.

You say:
Quote
...So when he sees an object come out of the Ocean, rise above his F18 and then mimic his movements, before shooting off at ridiculous speed, he surmises this object was NOT a balloon, NOT a drone and almost certainly not of foreign adversarial origin.
and then:
Quote
Radar tapes exist to back that up. In fact, his squadron had been tracking those objects for at least 2 weeks prior to his encounter.

I don't think that's true. There had been anomolous radar traces before Fravor reported his contact. As far as I'm aware there isn't a contemporaneous radar track of the obect he claimed to see performing the manouvres he claims at the time he saw it.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2023, 03:28:04 pm by Alan_X »
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,392
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #172 on: May 15, 2023, 03:36:49 pm »
Here's a gtreat example of the kind of analysis that Mick West does.

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/nPGmUF6R3CY&amp;feature=share" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/nPGmUF6R3CY&amp;feature=share</a>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPGmUF6R3CY
Just thorough step by step working through the information available. This is the reason I trust his views more than someone like Dave Fravor, because I can reproduce the results Mick West gets whereas for Fravor I just have to trust him because he's a Top Gun and some pilot was at another pilot's wedding.

Another really interesting video. Mick West and Chris Lehto who was an F-16 pilot and initially dismissed West's analysis.

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/neTfX9Jx5AY&amp;feature=share" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/neTfX9Jx5AY&amp;feature=share</a>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neTfX9Jx5AY
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,392
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #173 on: May 15, 2023, 03:50:38 pm »
Here's a fun one:

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/OAR5yMfql4s&amp;feature=share" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/OAR5yMfql4s&amp;feature=share</a>

Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Andy82lfc

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,564
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #174 on: May 15, 2023, 04:27:03 pm »
Here's a gtreat example of the kind of analysis that Mick West does.

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/nPGmUF6R3CY&amp;feature=share" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/nPGmUF6R3CY&amp;feature=share</a>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPGmUF6R3CY
Just thorough step by step working through the information available. This is the reason I trust his views more than someone like Dave Fravor, because I can reproduce the results Mick West gets whereas for Fravor I just have to trust him because he's a Top Gun and some pilot was at another pilot's wedding.


Love how he saves the 'mic drop' piece of evidence until the end with the fields in the background of the shot. Very interesting.

Problem is for some of these other videos it's not as easy to debunk them if they are passing above water etc, which is where it gets left wide open to interpretation and wild speculation.

Offline lobsterboy

  • Sworn enemy of crayfishgirl. Likes to draw spunking cocks n balls at sunday school
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,904
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #175 on: May 15, 2023, 05:03:14 pm »
I always thought it was Spielberg's Close Encounters that first introduced the greys in the form we know them, it's the first time I can ever remember aliens being 3ft tall, hairless anf featureless and having bulging eyes. The aliens I remember them portraying before that were always humanoids, UFO, Forbidden Planet or huge as in The Blob.

No, think the Greys had already been "out there" at that point, Barney & Betty Hill 1961 and possibly even further back in fiction from the 19th Century.
Spielberg probably helped push them right into the mainstream. Actually the lanky one that appears when the door first opens made the biggest impression on me. It scared the crap out of me as a kid. As did the cash in book released in the same year 1977 "The Uninvited" by Clive Harold which was based on a Welsh UFO hoax.
The rumours that the tiny aliens were taken to Goodison, disguised in Lonsdales and launched at the opposition remain unsubstantiated to this day.

After Spielberg UFOs were everywhere, even The Colbys. The Greys also heavily featured in Whitley Strieber's UFO abduction craze cash in book "Communion"

Even the best video game ever made, Deus Ex had Greys.
Ironically that game has a storyline the average MAGA loon would claim gospel now; aliens, clones, nanotech, Triads, Illuminati and a bioengineered disease as part of plot to take over the world.

I loved this stuff as a kid, UFOs and Science Fiction. Doctor Who, Space 1999, anything with Cryptids etc.
Remember Arthur C Clarkes Mysterious World?
We had fuck all money as a kid, a black and white TV, not many toys so I would mostly read anything I could get my hands on, usually from the local Library at my nans or the mobile one that used to come to the village every week. I would devour this kind of material but was always taught to question and ask why

As to why people would fake this stuff. Same reasons as always, fame and fortune.
There is a lot of money and adulation to be gained. There is a massive market for it. People want to believe.
Look at Travis Walton of Fire in the Sky "fame." He has faked his way to a personal fortune of anywhere between 1-5 million dollars.




Offline "Bobber" Thanks :)

  • But Hicks Is Still A Wanker
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 921
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #176 on: May 15, 2023, 06:15:38 pm »
Mick West lol what makes him an expert? Next everything will be explained by swamp gas and paper bags. I’m more with Chris Lehto, there’s too much to it all. It doesn’t mean I believe in little green men and the ridicule that comes with it such as some of the cliched comments on this thread.

Look, we all fall on either one side of the coin. Some more on the skeptics side with Mick West or Tyson DeGrass. Others tend to believe the pilots who were there and the multiple sensors of a naval battle fleet. If radars tracked objects for days descending from 80k feet to just above see level in a couple of seconds, along with the rest of the evidence, most of it apparently still classified, I find that very compelling. I find the amount of witness testimony over the years overwhelming. But I guess none of us can know for sure, but why can’t it be discussed without ridicule or lumping people in with flat earthers and Q MAGA bollocks?

Some people think Lue Elizondo will be a hero, others will think he’s a disinformation agent. I think he’s the former and will give him a chance until proven otherwise. Looking forward to his book release this summer.

Sometimes you can also like a theory without being labelled a Q conspiracy theorist, laughed at or words twisted. The difference is there are subjects that none of us know the answer to and we can only develop our own theories and views on them. If reincarnation resonates with me but someone else thinks we just become worm food and that’s it, none of us will ever be right or wrong to know whilst we’re alive.

I work with a Jehovah’s Witness, and whilst I don’t share her beliefs on that, I’m interested to know why she does and what it means to her rather than taking the piss or belittling her. I also don’t think the topic of UAPs and religion have to be against each other. My Muslim friends at work believe in Jinn.

I find it all fascinating and do profess to enjoy a rabbit hole here and there.

Has anyone looked into the Chris Bledsoe case?

« Last Edit: May 15, 2023, 06:23:31 pm by Bobber please? »

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

  • Rockwool Marketing Board Spokesman. Cracker Wanker. Fucking calmest man on RAWK, alright? ALRIGHT?! Definitely a bigger cunt than YOU!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,466
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #177 on: May 15, 2023, 06:21:25 pm »
To be fair he wasn't lumping anybody in & he's spot on with regards to the language & excuses used.
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Offline liverbloke

  • Prototype RAWK Genius. Founder of stickysheets.com and prefers it solo. Gotta hand it to him, eh?
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,388
  • i neither know nor care
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #178 on: May 15, 2023, 06:27:17 pm »
Mick West lol what makes him an expert? Next everything will be explained by swamp gas and paper bags. I’m more with Chris Lehto, there’s too much to it all. It doesn’t mean I believe in little green men and the ridicule that comes with it such as some of the cliched comments on this thread.

Look, we all fall on either one side of the coin. Some more on the skeptics side with Mick West or Tyson DeGrass. Others tend to believe the pilots who were there and the multiple sensors of a naval battle fleet. If radars tracked objects for days descending from 80k feet to just above see level in a couple of seconds, along with the rest of the evidence, most of it apparently still classified, I find that very compelling. I find the amount of witness testimony over the years overwhelming. But I guess none of us can know for sure, but why can’t it be discussed without ridicule or lumping people in with flat earthers and Q MAGA bollocks?

Some people think Lue Elizondo will be a hero, others will think he’s a disinformation agent. I think he’s the former and will give him a chance until proven otherwise. Looking forward to his book release this summer.

Sometimes you can also like a theory without being labelled a Q conspiracy theorist, laughed at or words twisted. The difference is there are subjects that none of us know the answer to and we can only develop our own theories and views on them. If reincarnation resonates with me but someone else thinks we just become worm food and that’s it, none of us will ever be right or wrong to know whilst we’re alive.

I work with a Jehovah’s Witness, and whilst I don’t share her beliefs on that, I’m interested to know why she does rather than taking the piss or belittling her.

Has anyone looked into the Chris Bledsoe case?

you raise a fair point regarding ridicule - but you need a thicker skin if humour defeats you

and you gotta ask yourself why you choose to believe - again, the religious 'faith' question, why? when faced with no real concrete evidence

unless you've seen a alion yourself?

and i'm not trying to ridicule you - but to believe without proof (real proof not words or poor videos or relying on 'witnesses' (that ol' religion rears its ugly head again)) ...well...you can see why we're sceptical

to me you need a better case to win in this particular court
Quote from: Lee1-6Liv
Who would have thought liverblokes no draws idea would not be his worst idea of the weekend

Offline "Bobber" Thanks :)

  • But Hicks Is Still A Wanker
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 921
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #179 on: May 15, 2023, 06:27:29 pm »
To be fair he wasn't lumping anybody in & he's spot on with regards to the language & excuses used.

I’ve lost track of what language it was? He quoted me mentioning mooted forthcoming witness testimonies before the senate and Congress? That seems likely to happen? Is that dodgy in some way? What excuse about what?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2023, 06:42:51 pm by Bobber please? »

Offline lionel_messias

  • likes pulling cocker spaniels out of Kim Kardassian's ass
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,592
  • 'You can throw your plan in the purple bin'
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #180 on: May 15, 2023, 06:29:42 pm »
You'll need to stop using the same language they do then, because as I said, the recent posts on this subject in this thread are largely the same sort of energy as I've seen across political conspiracies going back years.

And as for your 'serious realists', the conspiracy lunatics can point to people like retired Army General & National Security Advisor Michael Flynn, former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani, wealthy businessman Mike Lindell, or a whole slew of credentialled lawyers such as Sydney Powell or Lin Wood  (to say nothing of serving members of Congress like Boebert). At the Cyber Symposium they wheeled out all sorts of election, computer & statistics experts who gave dull, technical presentations on how Biden's win couldn't have been legitimate and so that 'proves' the claimed fraud.

To most of us these are hilarious yet dangerous crackpots, but if you're already primed to believe the stuff they're peddling then you can ignore or make excuses for any nonsense and maintain a belief that these successful, respected professionals must be on to something, even in the face of 'MSM' mockery.



:) I don't know who any of these people are and if you think am I using any of this language; maybe read my posts again.
Follow me on twatter: @JDMessias

Offline "Bobber" Thanks :)

  • But Hicks Is Still A Wanker
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 921
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #181 on: May 15, 2023, 06:36:35 pm »
you raise a fair point regarding ridicule - but you need a thicker skin if humour defeats you

and you gotta ask yourself why you choose to believe - again, the religious 'faith' question, why? when faced with no real concrete evidence

unless you've seen a alion yourself?

and i'm not trying to ridicule you - but to believe without proof (real proof not words or poor videos or relying on 'witnesses' (that ol' religion rears its ugly head again)) ...well...you can see why we're sceptical

to me you need a better case to win in this particular court

Alright fair point about the thicker skin!

I actually like the grounding of different views. I don’t like this debunk at any cost culture. Mick West concluded that the gimbal was an aircraft last I recall. That seems just an insane conclusion. I don’t think I need to prove anything to anyone though, people just need to research if they have the care to or any interest in it and make their own minds up.

Belief is a weird one here. I obviously tend to believe based on the weight of the historical information I’ve researched, rather than being a bona fide skeptic after researching. But it’s not like it’s set in stone, if it all turned out to be some massive disinformation campaign all these years and everyone was either mistaken or charlatans whatever, then I’ll be the first to say I’m a gullible twat!

PS I do believe lions are real ;)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2023, 06:52:53 pm by Bobber please? »

Offline rob1966

  • YORKIE bar-munching, hedgehog-squashing (well-)articulated road-hog-litter-bug. Sleeping With The Enemy. Has felt the wind and shed his anger..... did you know I drive a Jag? Cucking funt!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 46,839
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #182 on: May 15, 2023, 06:45:23 pm »
No, think the Greys had already been "out there" at that point, Barney & Betty Hill 1961 and possibly even further back in fiction from the 19th Century.
Spielberg probably helped push them right into the mainstream. Actually the lanky one that appears when the door first opens made the biggest impression on me. It scared the crap out of me as a kid. As did the cash in book released in the same year 1977 "The Uninvited" by Clive Harold which was based on a Welsh UFO hoax.
The rumours that the tiny aliens were taken to Goodison, disguised in Lonsdales and launched at the opposition remain unsubstantiated to this day.

After Spielberg UFOs were everywhere, even The Colbys. The Greys also heavily featured in Whitley Strieber's UFO abduction craze cash in book "Communion"

Even the best video game ever made, Deus Ex had Greys.
Ironically that game has a storyline the average MAGA loon would claim gospel now; aliens, clones, nanotech, Triads, Illuminati and a bioengineered disease as part of plot to take over the world.

I loved this stuff as a kid, UFOs and Science Fiction. Doctor Who, Space 1999, anything with Cryptids etc.
Remember Arthur C Clarkes Mysterious World?
We had fuck all money as a kid, a black and white TV, not many toys so I would mostly read anything I could get my hands on, usually from the local Library at my nans or the mobile one that used to come to the village every week. I would devour this kind of material but was always taught to question and ask why

As to why people would fake this stuff. Same reasons as always, fame and fortune.
There is a lot of money and adulation to be gained. There is a massive market for it. People want to believe.
Look at Travis Walton of Fire in the Sky "fame." He has faked his way to a personal fortune of anywhere between 1-5 million dollars.





Betty Hill described them as being 5ft to 5ft 4 tall men, looking almost human with black hair and dark eyes, bluish lips and grey skin. That makes me think of the UFO aliens



These are the ones that I feel started the whole UFO/grey beings, seems like since then every alien has looked like that



I was the same as you, Doctor Who, UFO, Space 1999, Twilight Zone and I do remember watching Mysterious World
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

Offline Riquende

  • Taking one for the team by giving one to a lucky mascot? Pix or stfu!! (Although is PC is from the 90s so you'll have to wait a while...)
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,782
  • Μετρήστε με με μανία
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #183 on: May 15, 2023, 06:54:10 pm »
:) I don't know who any of these people are and if you think am I using any of this language; maybe read my posts again.

I quoted your posts so know precisely what you said, and stand by my original assertion that the language I cited is akin to that used by MAGA numbnuts. Perhaps you're misremembering posting, or didn't mean to type what you did?

And it doesn't remotely matter whether you know who those people are (though I do think that's a lie as some of them have been in extremely high-profile news stories in recent years, so you're either lying or ignorant of world affairs). I don't know who any of the UFO/UAP 'serious experts' are, but that's irrelevant to the point I was making that they will come across as far more credible to people whose extra-ordinary beliefs already align with theirs, and you can still be a raging lunatic despite having law degrees, building million dollar businesses, running one of the world's most prominent cities or achieving the rank of general in the most powerful military in history.

"The nicest thing about quotes is that they give us a nodding acquaintance with the originator which is often socially impressive."

~ Kenneth Williams, with whom I'm noddingly acquainted. Socially impressed?

Offline Dr. Beaker

  • Veo, to his mates. Shares 50% of his DNA with a banana. Would dearly love to strangle Frankengoose. Lo! Be he not ye Messiah, verily be he a child of questionable conduct in the eyes of Ye Holy Border Guards.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,801
  • I... think I am, therefore...I....maybe.
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #184 on: May 15, 2023, 07:02:00 pm »
My fave was always The Day the Earth Stood Still. Big shiny flying saucer, big shiny robot, mad professor, alien with message for mankind, little boy, little boy's mum with big pointy tits, what's not to like! And they were all grey (pre colour).
NAKED BOOBERY

Rile-Me costed L. Nee-Naw "The Child" Torrence the first jack the hat-trick since Eon Rush vs Accursed Toffos, many moons passed. Nee-Naw he could have done a concreted his palace in the pantyhose off the LibPole Gods...was not was for the invented intervention of Rile-Me whistler.

Offline "Bobber" Thanks :)

  • But Hicks Is Still A Wanker
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 921
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #185 on: May 15, 2023, 07:06:57 pm »
Betty Hill described them as being 5ft to 5ft 4 tall men, looking almost human with black hair and dark eyes, bluish lips and grey skin. That makes me think of the UFO aliens



These are the ones that I feel started the whole UFO/grey beings, seems like since then every alien has looked like that



I was the same as you, Doctor Who, UFO, Space 1999, Twilight Zone and I do remember watching Mysterious World


They have certainly become ingrained into popular culture.

Did anyone come across the Wikileaks emails from the Russian hacking of Hilary Clintons mail server and the private conversations between John Podesta and a private aerospace contractor? They discuss “fastwalkers” where military satellites facing the earth have tracked objects coming into and going back out of earths atmosphere doing angled turns.

No doubt the emails themselves are genuine. Again, without any hard evidence to back up the conversation apart from the fact the conversation actually happened.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2023, 07:20:50 pm by Bobber please? »

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

  • Rockwool Marketing Board Spokesman. Cracker Wanker. Fucking calmest man on RAWK, alright? ALRIGHT?! Definitely a bigger cunt than YOU!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,466
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #186 on: May 15, 2023, 07:08:44 pm »
I quoted your posts so know precisely what you said, and stand by my original assertion that the language I cited is akin to that used by MAGA numbnuts. Perhaps you're misremembering posting, or didn't mean to type what you did?

And it doesn't remotely matter whether you know who those people are (though I do think that's a lie as some of them have been in extremely high-profile news stories in recent years, so you're either lying or ignorant of world affairs). I don't know who any of the UFO/UAP 'serious experts' are, but that's irrelevant to the point I was making that they will come across as far more credible to people whose extra-ordinary beliefs already align with theirs, and you can still be a raging lunatic despite having law degrees, building million dollar businesses, running one of the world's most prominent cities or achieving the rank of general in the most powerful military in history.


If you don't follow the stupidity news from the States, you wouldn't have heard about their crazy claims.
My cup, it runneth over, I'll never get my fill

Offline "Bobber" Thanks :)

  • But Hicks Is Still A Wanker
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 921
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #187 on: May 15, 2023, 07:10:33 pm »
I quoted your posts so know precisely what you said, and stand by my original assertion that the language I cited is akin to that used by MAGA numbnuts. Perhaps you're misremembering posting, or didn't mean to type what you did?

And it doesn't remotely matter whether you know who those people are (though I do think that's a lie as some of them have been in extremely high-profile news stories in recent years, so you're either lying or ignorant of world affairs). I don't know who any of the UFO/UAP 'serious experts' are, but that's irrelevant to the point I was making that they will come across as far more credible to people whose extra-ordinary beliefs already align with theirs, and you can still be a raging lunatic despite having law degrees, building million dollar businesses, running one of the world's most prominent cities or achieving the rank of general in the most powerful military in history.



Or you could be completely wrong about things you think your are certain about too. Everyone thinks they are right or know better than everyone else. Wouldn’t hurt to be a bit more humble.

One thing you’re right about is confirmation bias towards what we like and want to hear, we have to be conscious of that. If you care to, research Ross Coulthard who is an award winning journalist, who started out as a UFO skeptic, then the more he investigated, the more he become swayed that there’s something to it. But I suspect you’re closed minded towards the topic, so would just dismiss Ross as a lunatic and nutter too  :)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2023, 07:32:05 pm by Bobber please? »

Offline Riquende

  • Taking one for the team by giving one to a lucky mascot? Pix or stfu!! (Although is PC is from the 90s so you'll have to wait a while...)
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,782
  • Μετρήστε με με μανία
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #188 on: May 15, 2023, 07:41:52 pm »
Or you could be completely wrong about things you think your are certain about too. Everyone thinks they are right or know better than everyone else. Wouldn’t hurt to be a bit more humble.

One thing you’re right about is confirmation bias towards what we like and want to hear, we have to be conscious of that. If you care to, research Ross Coulthard who is an award winning journalist, who started out as a UFO skeptic, then the more he investigated, the more he become swayed that there’s something to it. But I suspect you’re closed minded towards the topic, so would just dismiss Ross as a lunatic and nutter too  :)

No, I'm very open minded about everything. I'll go where the evidence leads, and I don't start with conclusions. It's not 'open minded' to fill your head with unsupported beliefs and then accuse anyone you think doesn't follow you down the path as being closed minded because they won't take the same leap of faith you did.

And you're right: I could well be wrong about things I take as certain. But I like to evaluate the things that I believe, it's important to me that those things are true. That said, I haven't exhaustively researched every facet and angle of every single belief I hold, so I'm sure that something could turn up that disproves my thinking on a subject, and at that point it'll be up to me to reflect on that.

But as I haven't expressed a view one way or the other about whether UFOs exist, you won't know whether I'm wrong or not when the Martians land, will you?
"The nicest thing about quotes is that they give us a nodding acquaintance with the originator which is often socially impressive."

~ Kenneth Williams, with whom I'm noddingly acquainted. Socially impressed?

Offline "Bobber" Thanks :)

  • But Hicks Is Still A Wanker
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 921
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #189 on: May 15, 2023, 08:01:33 pm »
No, I'm very open minded about everything. I'll go where the evidence leads, and I don't start with conclusions. It's not 'open minded' to fill your head with unsupported beliefs and then accuse anyone you think doesn't follow you down the path as being closed minded because they won't take the same leap of faith you did.

And you're right: I could well be wrong about things I take as certain. But I like to evaluate the things that I believe, it's important to me that those things are true. That said, I haven't exhaustively researched every facet and angle of every single belief I hold, so I'm sure that something could turn up that disproves my thinking on a subject, and at that point it'll be up to me to reflect on that.

But as I haven't expressed a view one way or the other about whether UFOs exist, you won't know whether I'm wrong or not when the Martians land, will you?

But that’s the thing, whether it’s you intention or not, you seem to be doing the same in reverse, implying coming people haven’t come to their own conclusions based on the evidence that is available or that they have started off by jumping to a conclusion to fit their belief.

It’s ok to think something is more likely that not, even in the absence of concrete evidence, whilst maintaining a small dose of skepticism. Some of the theories can even be fun to go down the rabbit hole on. I like the Operation Highjump mission and some of the theories that surround that. Do I believe it? No, but neither do I dismiss it out of hand.

There is admittedly scant if any hard concrete evidence on the topic, but imo opinion, the mountain of witnesses testimony, sensor data, official declassified documentation swats it for me. But you’re probably more Dr Sean Kirkpatrick than me (the head of AARO who recently briefed the senate sub committee on UAP progress so far)

Offline lionel_messias

  • likes pulling cocker spaniels out of Kim Kardassian's ass
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,592
  • 'You can throw your plan in the purple bin'
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #190 on: May 15, 2023, 08:42:00 pm »
I quoted your posts so know precisely what you said, and stand by my original assertion that the language I cited is akin to that used by MAGA numbnuts. Perhaps you're misremembering posting, or didn't mean to type what you did?

And it doesn't remotely matter whether you know who those people are (though I do think that's a lie as some of them have been in extremely high-profile news stories in recent years, so you're either lying or ignorant of world affairs). I don't know who any of the UFO/UAP 'serious experts' are, but that's irrelevant to the point I was making that they will come across as far more credible to people whose extra-ordinary beliefs already align with theirs, and you can still be a raging lunatic despite having law degrees, building million dollar businesses, running one of the world's most prominent cities or achieving the rank of general in the most powerful military in history.



Yeah, nothing to do with me.

There's no logic or substance to what you're saying. People come across as credible if they have a career, credentials, a track record and/or their peers can vouch for them. Also, do they have a reason to fabricate or make up stories? Also, you're mistaking me for someone with different beliefs. My stated interest in this topic is based on curiosity and keeping an open mind.

But nothing will ever come out - properly - unless backed up by empiracle science. You have to evaluate data and consider sources. I listen to Ryan Graves, monotonous, serious and deeply uninterested in UFO lore or conspiracies.
If he says there is an aviation safety issue, then that is good enough for me. It's going to be slow going and bloody difficult but a full investigation of available data will come. And if a mundane explanation fits best then so be it.

But don't bundle me in with the crazies.

Follow me on twatter: @JDMessias

Offline thejbs

  • well-focussed, deffo not at all bias......ed
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,809
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #191 on: May 15, 2023, 11:47:58 pm »
I always thought it was Spielberg's Close Encounters that first introduced the greys in the form we know them, it's the first time I can ever remember aliens being 3ft tall, hairless anf featureless and having bulging eyes. The aliens I remember them portraying before that were always humanoids, UFO, Forbidden Planet or huge as in The Blob.

Spielberg likely drew on the available lore. A hundred years earlier, aliens were being described in fiction with bulbous heads and small dark eyes. It’s interesting that 73% of reported alien encounters in the US involve ‘greys’. Elsewhere in the world this is not the case. It would suggest that entertainment media is playing a huge part in the concoction of close encounter stories.

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,392
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #192 on: May 16, 2023, 09:06:58 am »
An interesting series of videos from The Basement Office at the New York Post.

Part 1: UFOs, Bigfoot, Robert Bigelow, NIDS

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/VwfaAz9kxcc&amp;feature=share" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/VwfaAz9kxcc&amp;feature=share</a>

Wath number 1 and the rest should link automatically. Anything from the NYP should be treated with skepticism of course but it's well researched and everything is verifiable or in the public domain. In particular it gives background to the reasons why organisations with legitimate sounding names associated with Skinwalker Ranch gave credibility to the search for UFO/UAPs.

The National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS) sounds important but was made up by Robert Bigelow to investigate Skinwalker Ranch based on stories written by (made up by) George Knapp.

The Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Applications Program (AAWSAP) was set up by Harry Reid with $22m government funding. Harry Reid was a friend of Robert Bigelow. The $22m funding was awarded to the sole bidder for the program - Robert Bigelow's BAASS (Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies) - that used it to fund investigations at Skinwalker Ranch (spoiler - they didn't find anything).

Despite nothing being found, Knapp and Colm Kelleher wrote a sensationalist book about Skinwalker Ranch with amazing claims about UFOs and also the infamous dino-beaver (a beaver like animal with dinosaur spikes*), wierwolves and poltergeists. All of this despite the fact that in the years of investigations, no evidence of anything was found.

Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) another Harry Reid effort, was followed by the Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon Task Force (UAPTF).

The bottom line is most of the 'official' stuff we're seeing now stems from the lunatic nonsense that started with Bigelow's purchase of Skinwalker Ranch and Kelleher and Knapp's lunatic ramblings about dino-beavers, poltergeists and UFOs.

There's a good episode on Robert Fugal, who is a fascinating character who comes across as a genuine believer in this stuff. It's worth pointing out that he also believes that Joseph Smith found gold plates buried near his home in America containing the Book of Mormon.

A shout out also to the "To The Stars Academy of Arts and Sciences" founded by well-known scientist Tom DeLonge of Blink-182. One of the leading lights of "To the Stars" is Harold Puthoff. Puthoff is worthy of mention because he was one of the early investigators at Skinwalker in the Bigelow years and one of his claims to fame was declaring that Uri Geller really had psychic powers.

It's a litany of credulous nonsense over decades funded by billionaires who are willing to spend their money to hear what they want to hear. And it's from this motherlode that we're going to recieve credible evidence of actual aliens, downed UFOs and interstellar propulsion?

I won't be holding my breath.

*In the book, there are breathless descriptions of an encounter with the dino-beaver but unfortunately they all forgot to take their cameras. They also forgot their cameras when they encountered weirwolves, landed UFOs and everything else they reported.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2023, 09:13:57 am by Alan_X »
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline lionel_messias

  • likes pulling cocker spaniels out of Kim Kardassian's ass
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,592
  • 'You can throw your plan in the purple bin'
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #193 on: May 16, 2023, 09:29:28 am »
It is also interesting how things can be spun one way, or another.

Some of the elements of the above are sensationalist and are quite easy to made to sound silly. I'm not a fan of all that Skinwalker Ranch stuff and have not read much into it.

But I like George Knapp who has been researching this topic for some 35 years. NIDS, Harry Reid and AATIP were part of the now-famous article that the New York Times published in December 2017. Almost certainly everything we are seeing now in Congress and the formation of AARO arose from that article.

It is worth pointing out that serious investigative journalists researched and wrote that article for the NYT. They had sources in Washington that vouched for other programs around the Pentagon that were seriously looking into UAP with knowledge, data and the inference was: materials.

As ever, there is the silly end, and another end where something real is being evaluated, often behind close doors.
Follow me on twatter: @JDMessias

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,392
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #194 on: May 16, 2023, 09:43:59 am »
A side note on Puthoff. He is a great example of experts and trained scientists not always being the best people to investigate unusual phenomena.

Puthoff believed Uri Geller had real psychic powers because he was looking at the wrong things. He was trying to understand the mechanics/physics of how Geller could bend spoons or read what was in a sealed envelope. Whereas James Randi, a stage magician, just saw sleight of hand and stage craft.

The same principle applies to Mick West. Whereas the UFO believer tends to take videos at face value - evidence of an 'object' with subsequent assumptions about size, speed and control, West is anaylising the video for what it is - an array of pixels with visual information captured through a lens onto some kind of sensor. The image might be compressed or filtered and there will alos be information about time, location etc.

A believer commits to the 'object' and leaps to conclusions that its incredible speed, movement etc is 'impossible' with known technology and therefore evidence of either covert programmes and/or alien technology. If it's moving that fast it must be aliens right? Whereas the first question should be: "Is it actually moving that fast? Is it really that fast? Is it a bit of fluff or an insect blown in the wind close to the camera?  Or is the 'tic tac' an out of focus plane with speed blur.

Here's a UAP I just captured out of my office window. A clear cigar shaped tictac moving at incredible speed.



Here it is a few frames earlier:

Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,392
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #195 on: May 16, 2023, 09:51:13 am »
How can you say this:
I'm not a fan of all that Skinwalker Ranch stuff and have not read much into it.
And follow it with this:
Quote
But I like George Knapp who has been researching this topic for some 35 years.
George Knapp is the person who wrote all that garbage about Skinwalker Ranch. They are the same thing. Knapp is a charlatan.



I'd say you were going to be disappointed when the revelations turn out to be a disappointing pile of nothing but I don't think you will be. You seem to be invested in this stuff and won't accept that it's all based on garbage. There'll be another claim that 'they just need to release the real files' and there will be another un-named whistleblower who was too scared/not allowed to reveal everything.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2023, 09:55:33 am by Alan_X »
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline lionel_messias

  • likes pulling cocker spaniels out of Kim Kardassian's ass
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,592
  • 'You can throw your plan in the purple bin'
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #196 on: May 16, 2023, 10:02:33 am »
How can you say this:And follow it with this:George Knapp is the person who wrote all that garbage about Skinwalker Ranch. They are the same thing. Knapp is a charlatan.



I'd say you were going to be disappointed when the revelations turn out to be a disappointing pile of nothing but I don't think you will be. You seem to be invested in this stuff and won't accept that it's all based on garbage. There'll be another claim that 'they just need to release the real files' and there will be another un-named whistleblower who was too scared/not allowed to reveal everything.

We can hold contradictory ideas in our heads! Amazingly. I like George Knapp, he is a TV journalist who has worked in this area for decades. I like the cut of his jib and at the same time, I don't have to accept or back every story he has ever covered.

Another example: I think Bob Lazar is either a disinformation agent or delusional.

Yeah, Alan I don't accept that an enormous range of data-points and incidents are all "based on garbage". Guess what, your viewpoint does not rise naturally above others, either.

I am interested in this material, and probably not as invested as you seem to be in debunking.
Follow me on twatter: @JDMessias

Offline lobsterboy

  • Sworn enemy of crayfishgirl. Likes to draw spunking cocks n balls at sunday school
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,904
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #197 on: May 16, 2023, 10:33:47 am »
Anyone with any association to Skinwalker ranch should immediately be discounted from any serious discussion.

Another common theme is for someone with a PH.D in entirely unrelated fields brought onboard to say "hey science agrees!"
Like the creationist frauds at The Discovery Institute.
Its still nothing more than pseudoscience though.

I would love to believe, I would love it to be true.
Proof we aren't alone, proof that interstellar travel is viable and even easy.
None of this stuff proves anything though.

Offline liverbloke

  • Prototype RAWK Genius. Founder of stickysheets.com and prefers it solo. Gotta hand it to him, eh?
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,388
  • i neither know nor care
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #198 on: May 16, 2023, 12:16:55 pm »
things like this video below which deals with the time-travelling pegasus project (sending a child back to the time of the gettysburg address) - the 'credible' people are either telling the truth or totally mentally delusional habitual liars

and i do realise now that i've said that so deridingly, that some may side with the 'credible' people as they will deem my own incredulity as devious

some of the comments - both by believers and non-believers (there's that religion analogy rearing its head yet again) - are fun to read

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/_uV7rUhgVjI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/_uV7rUhgVjI</a>
Quote from: Lee1-6Liv
Who would have thought liverblokes no draws idea would not be his worst idea of the weekend

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,392
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: UAPs over America: real or balloons??
« Reply #199 on: May 16, 2023, 12:56:51 pm »
It is also interesting how things can be spun one way, or another.

Some of the elements of the above are sensationalist and are quite easy to made to sound silly. I'm not a fan of all that Skinwalker Ranch stuff and have not read much into it.

But I like George Knapp who has been researching this topic for some 35 years. NIDS, Harry Reid and AATIP were part of the now-famous article that the New York Times published in December 2017. Almost certainly everything we are seeing now in Congress and the formation of AARO arose from that article.

It is worth pointing out that serious investigative journalists researched and wrote that article for the NYT. They had sources in Washington that vouched for other programs around the Pentagon that were seriously looking into UAP with knowledge, data and the inference was: materials.

As ever, there is the silly end, and another end where something real is being evaluated, often behind close doors.

The 2017 NYT article is based on accounts by Luis Elizondo and was vouched for by Harry Reid and Robert Bigelow - see my post above. In other words, the verification of the story came directly form the same root - Skinwalker Ranch. And you're right - everything we're seeing now stems from that article.

There were undoubtedly sources in Washington because Harry Reid and other believers in UFOs used government money to indulge their interests in paranormal activity and UFOs.

From the NYT article:

Mr. Reid said his interest in U.F.O.s came from Mr. Bigelow. In 2007, Mr. Reid said in the interview, Mr. Bigelow told him that an official with the Defense Intelligence Agency had approached him wanting to visit Mr. Bigelow’s ranch in Utah, where he conducted research.

Mr. Reid said he met with agency officials shortly after his meeting with Mr. Bigelow and learned that they wanted to start a research program on U.F.O.s. Mr. Reid then summoned Mr. Stevens and Mr. Inouye to a secure room in the Capitol.


and

Contracts obtained by The Times show a congressional appropriation of just under $22 million beginning in late 2008 through 2011. The money was used for management of the program, research and assessments of the threat posed by the objects.

The funding went to Mr. Bigelow’s company, Bigelow Aerospace, which hired subcontractors and solicited research for the program.

Under Mr. Bigelow’s direction, the company modified buildings in Las Vegas for the storage of metal alloys and other materials that Mr. Elizondo and program contractors said had been recovered from unidentified aerial phenomena. Researchers also studied people who said they had experienced physical effects from encounters with the objects and examined them for any physiological changes. In addition, researchers spoke to military service members who had reported sightings of strange aircraft.


and

“We’re sort of in the position of what would happen if you gave Leonardo da Vinci a garage-door opener,” said Harold E. Puthoff, an engineer who has conducted research on extrasensory perception for the C.I.A. and later worked as a contractor for the program. “First of all, he’d try to figure out what is this plastic stuff. He wouldn’t know anything about the electromagnetic signals involved or its function.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html
 
It's all there in the article - Bigelow, Skinwalker Ranch, Puthoff, Elizondo... It's actually really poor journalism.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2023, 01:01:24 pm by Alan_X »
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.