Topic: UAPs over America: real or balloons??

[Alan_X]

Well, this is the issue in terms of making money. I wouldn't be sure he is making that much from Netflix btw.

And as for spending 12 years of his life interviewing people in Brazil? I'm guessing there are better ways to spend his mortal years.

I have listened to him speak quite a few times (never seen any of his docs) and he appears genuine. It would be far more strange and elaborate if he had somehow faked everything he has ever talked about!

In fact, if everyone involved in UAP had faked EVERYTHING, then congrats, it's the weirdest, most elaborate hoax ever. They should go work for the Tory party or something.

Plenty of people who see "UAP"s are genuinely reporting what they saw. It's just that they don't have enough information to correctly identify what they're seeing. Then there are the fantasists and outright liars.

Graham Hancock has been 'investigating' his Ancient Apocalypse nonsense for thirty years and the Atlantis bollocks its based on goes back to Ignatius Donnelly in the 19th century and beyond. Some stories are compelling and people want them to be true.

So many times the UFO/UAP stories just fall apart under scrutiny. The Trinity crash is a perfect example of a story with so many things that are verifiable as bollocks but still it gets traction. The most hilarious is the 'bracket' that was torn off the inside of the UFO before it was taken away:



The 'alien artefact made of incredible alloys' is actually a  cast aluminium part for a pump.

I have listened to him speak quite a few times (never seen any of his docs) and he appears genuine. It would be far more strange and elaborate if he had somehow faked everything he has ever talked about!

Why do you say that? I think you underestimate the money to be made from books, videos and the UFO conference circuit, but the kudos that comes from having a doting audience can be enough for people to keep going. For me, it's unimportant whether he's a liar or a believer, the fact is there is no concrete evidence to support any of his stories. It's all hearsay, concealed information, government cover-ups and the big, explosive, revelation always just around the corner.

[lionel_messias]

PLenty of people who see "UAP"s are genuinely reporting what they saw. It's just that they don't have enough information to correctly identify what they're seeing. Then there are the fantasists and outright liars.

So they can't identify what they are seeing, and who can? Commander David Fravor was over 15 years into a naval aviator career. He had seen satellites, he had seen helicopters, he had all sorts of weather situations. So when he sees an object come out of the Ocean, rise above his F18 and then mimic his movements, before shooting off at ridiculous speed, he surmises this object was NOT a balloon, NOT a drone and almost certainly not of foreign adversarial origin.

Radar tapes exist to back that up. In fact, his squadron had been tracking those objects for at least 2 weeks prior to his encounter. What I'm saying is there will be better data about such objects which has been classified. More than likely because the sensors that recorded the data are themselves classified. Someone said recently Norad-style sensors have recorded objects entering the atmosphere from Space.

So let's understand what these things are, and let the US intelligence community and Pentagon finally front up with what they know. We can handle it, we've had Trump, Covid, Putin's war. I think we're grown up enough now.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

A lot of people’s world views are going to be shaken I feel.

[Alan_X]

A lot of people’s world views are going to be shaken I feel.

1. I don't think there's going to be a big reveal of alien bodies and downed alien craft.
2. Even if there was, 99.9% of the world population won't give a shit. The idea that there might be aliens is baked into the culture and any actual 'proof' is probably going to be a disappointment for people who've been watching Guardians of the Galaxy, Avatar, Star Trek and a thousand and one other science fiction shows and movies.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

1. I don't think there's going to be a big reveal of alien bodies and downed alien craft.
2. Even if there was, 99.9% of the world population won't give a shit. The idea that there might be aliens is baked into the culture and any actual 'proof' is probably going to be a disappointment for people who've been watching Guardians of the Galaxy, Avatar, Star Trek and a thousand and one other science fiction shows and movies.

The talk amongst some of the more serious folks in the subject is that there will be some official announcement this year that we have non human technology. Only time will tell.

If this is true, what I doubt very much is acknowledgement of any kind of secret programs that have utilised NHT.

[Phineus]

The talk amongst some of the more serious folks in the subject is that there will be some official announcement this year that we have non human technology. Only time will tell.

If this is true, what I doubt very much is acknowledgement of any kind of secret programs that have utilised NHT.

Interesting - is this from any particular podcasts or sites you can recommend, may I ask?

[lionel_messias]

1. I don't think there's going to be a big reveal of alien bodies and downed alien craft.
2. Even if there was, 99.9% of the world population won't give a shit. The idea that there might be aliens is baked into the culture and any actual 'proof' is probably going to be a disappointment for people who've been watching Guardians of the Galaxy, Avatar, Star Trek and a thousand and one other science fiction shows and movies.

Wow, your two viewpoints:

1) Nope, nothing is going to happen.

2) Even if it does, no one will give a shit because it is not Guardians of the Galaxy.

Not a fan of either view, they are really quite negative and are pretty easy to maintain without challenging.

I tend to think there is a real pheneomon going on and when serious people are talking about it for decades, they are not ALL in it to make money.

The machanism for disclosure will have to be boring, career legislators in the US getting exposed to real data to the point where it can be revealed.

Not sitting on the fence: I fully expect this to be happening.

[lionel_messias]

Interesting - is this from any particular podcasts or sites you can recommend, may I ask?

I'd recommend Merged podcast, run by the former F18 pilot Ryan Graves. Some incredible interviews. Spotify/Apple podcasts.

And there are a few Lex Fridman podcasts but this interview with Commander David Fravor remains the most credible UAP incident account probably in history:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB8zcAttP1E

[Phineus]

I'd recommend Merged podcast, run by the former F18 pilot Ryan Graves. Some incredible interviews. Spotify/Apple podcasts.

And there are a few Lex Fridman podcasts but this interview with Commander David Fravor remains the most credible UAP incident account probably in history:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB8zcAttP1E

Thanks!

[Andy82lfc]

I'd recommend Merged podcast, run by the former F18 pilot Ryan Graves. Some incredible interviews. Spotify/Apple podcasts.

And there are a few Lex Fridman podcasts but this interview with Commander David Fravor remains the most credible UAP incident account probably in history:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB8zcAttP1E

Watched a decent chunk of the object moving around and him talking about how the camera tracks and gets info from it, so it was a mysterious object there for a while then went.

In this day and age I'm pretty cynical anyway, so I'm going to need a bit more than a grainy dot to convince me and after all of the build up before viewing this it was a bit of an anti-climax.

Not saying alien life forms are not possible, not at all, but that evidence like this and hundreds of similar sighting are always the same, always incredibly vague and always piss weak.

Reminds me of Fox Mulder's mantra for a lot of it.

Just my opinion though obvs 

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Interesting - is this from any particular podcasts or sites you can recommend, may I ask?

There’s many. A respected and award winning journalist called Ross Coulthard has an excellent one called Need To Know. Interviews with Stanford Professor Garry Nolan are also very good. These are pretty serious people.

I like Steve Bassett of the Paradigm Research Group, although he has some detractors because he can be overly optimistic

[lionel_messias]

There’s many. A respected and award winning journalist called Ross Coulthard has an excellent one called Need To Know. Interviews with Stanford Professor Garry Nolan are also very good. These are pretty serious people.

I like Steve Bassett of the Paradigm Research Group, although he has some detractors because he can be overly optimistic

Bassett is an interesting one. He's been a Washington lobbyist for over 20 years on this issue.
He maintains "disclosure" is months away now. Based on hearings and private testimonies being heard by
members of Congress.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Bassett is an interesting one. He's been a Washington lobbyist for over 20 years on this issue.
He maintains "disclosure" is months away now. Based on hearings and private testimonies being heard by
members of Congress.

I like listening to Bassett, I find him really engaging and enjoyable to listen to. He’s not the only one who is claiming that disclosure of some degree is just months away, it’s coming from many sources now. Rumours are it’s going to be the admission of having NHT. Will see what happens this year. If it comes to nothing and there’s no good reason, then will likely pay less attention to some of these folks.

Sounds like there’s going to be congressional hearings next month where the whistle blowers and witnesses like Fravor and Graves will testify.

[Boston always unofficial]

State of Congress i think the aliens are already here and running the shop.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

State of Congress i think the aliens are already here and running the shop.

[lionel_messias]

Seems like Nasa will discuss their own UAP report May 31st. With media questioning.

Likely to be underwhelming but who knows...

[Riquende]

The talk amongst some of the more serious folks in the subject is that there will be some official announcement this year that we have non human technology. Only time will tell.

Eyes on Washington between now and June.

Things are happening in Washington, DC. Believe it or not, we should have some interesting news soon. Whistleblowers are briefing Congress.

This is the exact same energy that the Qanon & MAGA movements have over the public release of info relating to election fraud, satanic influence over politics, sex trafficking of children in tunnels under Washington, etc etc. The evidence is always 'about to come out', there are always secret whistleblowers about to "bring down the cabal", etc etc. Last summer they even kept repeating "Eyes on the audit" as a mantra (that privately funded one that went nowhere).

I'm certainly not accusing anyone on here of being involved in those movements, but to an outsider it looks like the exact same sort of unjustified belief, and the lure into the conspiracy belief is the same thing - that you guys are in on the ground floor of having all the secret info, that you're 'awake' whilst the majority of the population are sleeping, blissfully unaware of the 'real' truth. And you keep being told that you're all going to be proved right real soon.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

This is the exact same energy that the Qanon & MAGA movements have over the public release of info relating to election fraud, satanic influence over politics, sex trafficking of children in tunnels under Washington, etc etc. The evidence is always 'about to come out', there are always secret whistleblowers about to "bring down the cabal", etc etc. Last summer they even kept repeating "Eyes on the audit" as a mantra (that privately funded one that went nowhere).

I'm certainly not accusing anyone on here of being involved in those movements, but to an outsider it looks like the exact same sort of unjustified belief, and the lure into the conspiracy belief is the same thing - that you guys are in on the ground floor of having all the secret info, that you're 'awake' whilst the majority of the population are sleeping, blissfully unaware of the 'real' truth. And you keep being told that you're all going to be proved right real soon.

There’s an awful lot wrong with this, but I’m not interested in arguing or trying convincing anyone. You may not be accusing us, but by lumping the UAP topic in with that whack job stuff, you may as well be.

The topic/phenomena is real, if you were to read the June 2021 Preliminary Assessment: Unidentified Aerial Phenomena by the ODNI, the US government admitted it’s not their tech and they don’t know whose it is. It’s now written into law that people under an NDAA who would otherwise have been jailed, now have impunity and can now come forward and tell Congress what they know about having worked on UFO programs or reverse engineered crash retrievals. I think anyone who has an interest, an impartial and open mind who looked into and investigated the history of it since the 40s, would say there’s something there, breaking all known laws of physics since the 40s that no one understands. Even looking back to the foo fighters during WW2.

The topic has always been vulnerable to being hijacked by conspiracy theorists etc, but that doesn’t mean there’s not something there that we don’t understand. I suspect by the disparaging tone of your post that you have no interest in the topic at all and that’s fair enough.

[Riquende]

There’s an awful lot wrong with this

There's nothing wrong with it. You're using the same language they do to make the same sort of point. That's literal fact, I've been following the Qanon stuff online for a few years now, it's absolutely fascinating.

You read it as an apparent insult, that's on you.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

There's nothing wrong with it. You're using the same language they do to make the same sort of point. That's literal fact, I've been following the Qanon stuff online for a few years now, it's absolutely fascinating.

You read it as an apparent insult, that's on you.

I’m afraid I’ve never read any Qanon stuff, I can’t stand conspiracy nonsense, perhaps as you’ve spent so much time following them, it’s given you a bias towards concluding everything belongs in the Qanon bin.

There’s an absolute mountain of evidence and testimony going back 70 years and it’s up to an individual to decide for themselves what to make of it just like most things. I believe the likes of Chris Mellon, Lue Elizondo, David Fravor, Robert Salas are genuine. The Varginhas case seems compelling as does Ariel school, Nimitz, Rendlesham. I like the testimony of the pilot of the 2007 Alderney sighting. What the hell did he see? And then to potentially risk ending his career by going on This Morning to tell people what he witnessed made it even more compelling to me. I also believe the testimonies of the US military personnel who witnessed UFOs shutdown down entire ICBM missile bases, i like to think I can make a good judgment that they are telling the truth as to what they believe it to be.

These aren’t conspiracies, these happened and that’s a literal fact, it’s up to each of us to make of them what we will.

[Riquende]

I’m afraid I’ve never read any Qanon stuff,

So your opinion on whether you're using the same language as them and making the same arguments is pretty moot then, thanks for conceding that point.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

So your opinion on whether you're using the same language as them and making the same arguments is pretty moot then, thanks for conceding that point.

No idea what you’re on about now, but as I said, no interest in arguing about it. I find the subject interesting and exciting and that is all

[So… Howard Philips]

If these ‘unidentified’ objects are of alien origin and have been visiting Earth since the 1940s they must be extremely shy not to have made any sort of contact in the last 70 years.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

If these ‘unidentified’ objects are of alien origin and have been visiting Earth since the 1940s they must be extremely shy not to have made any sort of contact in the last 70 years.

They have and it's going to be released, they're just waiting on Kennedy getting his shit together.

[thejbs]

No idea what you’re on about now, but as I said, no interest in arguing about it. I find the subject interesting and exciting and that is all

He’s making the point that you’re refuting that your language is similar to that of Q while admitting you’re not familiar with it. I have to side with riquende, here - I too see the similarities. I’ve been reading claims that we’re on the cusp of a big UFO reveal since the 80s.

And it’s hard to deny being into conspiracy theories if you genuinely believe the government are covering up this.

[Riquende]

no interest in arguing about it.

It's not an argument at all. I've posted something that's true, and you've admitted you don't know enough about it to say otherwise. You're free to believe me or not, and you can demand that I back up the claim if you wish.

And to further the point, talking about a "mountain of evidence" that exists but somehow nobody outside of your 'In The Know' circle will accept is also similar to the claims made by the 2020 election deniers (who want to see Biden, Pelosi etc locked up for their crimes and claim that the evidence is all there, so what more do the Supreme Court/Military need in order to act?).

Mike Lindell's 2021 Cyber Symposium is a good place to start on just how convinced these people are that the "proof is out there" (and in this case they have it, and it's obvious, and why can't the rest of the world see it?)

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

I don’t know if there’s been a cover up, but there’s been a history of obfuscation and complete lack of transparency, that’s irrefutable.

I read other people saying they’ve been hearing similar claims of being on the cusp of disclosure since the 80s, I can’t speak for that, I personally have only been reading into the subject the last 2 or 3 years. But there does seem to me to be a lot of momentum gathering since 2017. If, as is being mooted that pilots and military personnel do testify under oath before congress or the senate next month, then that will be historical and certainly nothing like it went before in the 80s.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

It's not an argument at all. I've posted something that's true, and you've admitted you don't know enough about it to say otherwise. You're free to believe me or not, and you can demand that I back up the claim if you wish.

And to further the point, talking about a "mountain of evidence" that exists but somehow nobody outside of your 'In The Know' circle will accept is also similar to the claims made by the 2020 election deniers (who want to see Biden, Pelosi etc locked up for their crimes and claim that the evidence is all there, so what more do the Supreme Court/Military need in order to act?).

Mike Lindell's 2021 Cyber Symposium is a good place to start on just how convinced these people are that the "proof is out there" (and in this case they have it, and it's obvious, and why can't the rest of the world see it?)

No, I believe you, there’s some real nutters out there. I wouldn’t be so certain about anything to say that something is definitely the case or fact, there’s always going to be some element of uncertainty. I personally believe a lot of things that can’t be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, but still some things resonate or you get a good feeling about.

We will see what happens over this year.

Do you believe Roswell was just a weather balloon or an actual UFO crash that was retrieved or don’t know?

[Riquende]

But there does seem to me to be a lot of momentum gathering since 2017.

This is another fascinating aspect to this - we're demonstrably living in the age of disinformation, which has been ramping up this last decade and certainly could be said to be gathering momentum since 2017. In all of human history, it's never been easier to fake evidence and it's never been easier to disseminate information. I'll admit I've spent a lot of time looking at how this has affected the political sphere more than anything else, but it stands to reason that other, let's say non-mainstream, ways of thinking could also have been supercharged (there's also probably been an uptick in flat-earthers, too). People live in online bubbles, with content curated by the algorithm to continually reinforce the notion that what they've already accepted is true, oh and by the way here are 37 more videos that agree with you.

In the face of all this we should be demanding more from our 'sources', but that's not how brains seem to be wired.

[lobsterboy]

The evidence is in Hunter Bidens laptop.

Also Roswell was definitely Aliens, I saw an Ant & Dec documentary about it...

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

The evidence is in Hunter Bidens laptop.

Also Roswell was definitely Aliens, I saw an Ant & Dec documentary about it...

Fair enough, I’ll leave you to your childish jokes. Very easy to sit on the sidelines making silly jokes than engaging on a discussion on what the phenomena could be.

[thejbs]

There’s no credible evidence that the Roswell incident was a UFO crash. What there is, though, is a muddle of conflations, contradictions and obstinacy towards actual evidence. As a kid I always associated the ‘greys’ with roswell, but it was 40 years after 1947 before anyone started connecting them to Roswell. In fact, the first mention of these aliens was after the Betty and Benny Hill (yes, I know) incident. Under hypnosis, Hill first described the ‘greys’. However, this was a fortnight after an outer limits episode that depicted bald, grey (it was black and white) aliens with bulbous heads and wraparound eyes.

[lobsterboy]

Fair enough, I’ll leave you to your childish jokes. Very easy to sit on the sidelines making silly jokes than engaging on a discussion on what the phenomena could be.

I am being serious?

There is another good documentary about a classified battle between alien invaders and the USA.
I think its called "Battleship"
You should check it out, its really thought provoking.

I'd like to hear your theories on Hollow Earth as well?
I saw a documentary where the hole in Antartica leads into hollow earth. I think its called Godzilla vs Kong?

If only we could get that laptop off the FBI and the Lizard people Illuminati that control them then we'd all know the truth!

[BER]

This is another fascinating aspect to this - we're demonstrably living in the age of disinformation, which has been ramping up this last decade and certainly could be said to be gathering momentum since 2017. In all of human history, it's never been easier to fake evidence and it's never been easier to disseminate information. I'll admit I've spent a lot of time looking at how this has affected the political sphere more than anything else, but it stands to reason that other, let's say non-mainstream, ways of thinking could also have been supercharged (there's also probably been an uptick in flat-earthers, too). People live in online bubbles, with content curated by the algorithm to continually reinforce the notion that what they've already accepted is true, oh and by the way here are 37 more videos that agree with you.

In the face of all this we should be demanding more from our 'sources', but that's not how brains seem to be wired.

95% chance they started looking into it after a Joe Rogan podcast.

[lobsterboy]

95% chance that they first became interested after a Joe Rogan podcast.

Do your own research man!
Why study "mainstream" physics, astrophysics, astronomy, archaeology or geology when you can just watch grifters on Joe Rogan feeding you nonsense.

[Andy82lfc]

Do your own research man!
Why study "mainstream" physics, astrophysics, astronomy, archaeology or geology when you can just watch grifters on Joe Rogan feeding you nonsense.

It's the way he always has some 'expert' on his shows too, stating everything as 100% fact and how nobody knows, etc. Pulls the suckers right in everytime.

Actually it's a bit unfair to say suckers as a lot are mostly just normal people being conned. You have to be savvy as fuck these days to avoid any misinformation online or by other means, it's absolutely everywhere.

[Lusty]

95% chance they started looking into it after a Joe Rogan podcast.

At least it's not Chris Jericho this time

[lionel_messias]

This is the exact same energy that the Qanon & MAGA movements have over the public release of info relating to election fraud, satanic influence over politics, sex trafficking of children in tunnels under Washington, etc etc. The evidence is always 'about to come out', there are always secret whistleblowers about to "bring down the cabal", etc etc. Last summer they even kept repeating "Eyes on the audit" as a mantra (that privately funded one that went nowhere).

I'm certainly not accusing anyone on here of being involved in those movements, but to an outsider it looks like the exact same sort of unjustified belief, and the lure into the conspiracy belief is the same thing - that you guys are in on the ground floor of having all the secret info, that you're 'awake' whilst the majority of the population are sleeping, blissfully unaware of the 'real' truth. And you keep being told that you're all going to be proved right real soon.

   Hmm.


I have no interest in conspiracy theories and to be conflated with MAGA or Qanon people----my only response would be "wow".




The serious people commenting on this are realists. Some are pilots, others are lobbyists. Others are Senators like Gillibrand and Marco Rubio (both sides of the aisle there).


What is probably true of the US government and intelligence services is not a conspiracy but a vast bureaucracy. There are all these small groups and they have their own agendas, all of them seek funding and they don't do anything if it is not in their interest. My guess is over the last 70 years, these type of groups have come across UAP data and information (perhaps physical evidence/craft) and not just not known what to do with it. "Oh look, we've seen these things, we don't know what they are, cannot stop them and a powerless and in the dark. Good morning Americans, have a nice day!"




But Congress appear to be more clued-in to this topic. It became LAW last December that "whistleblowers" can come forward to talk legacy UAP programs and not face prosecution and they can indeed reveal these things by breaking NDAs or classification.


Will they come forward with anything juicy? Eventually I think yes. But this has no basis whatsoever in my belief in conspiracy theories or the unhinged theorizing of MAGA folk.


Just times change.

[lobsterboy]

I'm not saying there aren't some cases of unexplained phenomena in our sky that require further investigation but 99% of the stuff is explainable or hoaxed.
The small percentage that isn't, remains simply unexplained, there is no evidence its aliens either.
Interstellar travel is really, really hard, the distances are unimaginably large and space is quite hostile to life.
Not to mention the effects of relativity when travelling at the kind of speeds required to traverse such distances or the energy requirements to travel at those speeds.
It seems very unlikely.

[lobsterboy]

   Hmm.


I have no interest in conspiracy theories and to be conflated with MAGA or Qanon people----my only response would be "wow".




The serious people commenting on this are realists. Some are pilots, others are lobbyists. Others are Senators like Gillibrand and Marco Rubio (both sides of the aisle there).


What is probably true of the US government and intelligence services is not a conspiracy but a vast bureaucracy. There are all these small groups and they have their own agendas, all of them seek funding and they don't do anything if it is not in their interest. My guess is over the last 70 years, these type of groups have come across UAP data and information (perhaps physical evidence/craft) and not just not known what to do with it. "Oh look, we've seen these things, we don't know what they are, cannot stop them and a powerless and in the dark. Good morning Americans, have a nice day!"




But Congress appear to be more clued-in to this topic. It became LAW last December that "whistleblowers" can come forward to talk legacy UAP programs and not face prosecution and they can indeed reveal these things by breaking NDAs or classification.


Will they come forward with anything juicy? Eventually I think yes. But this has no basis whatsoever in my belief in conspiracy theories or the unhinged theorizing of MAGA folk.


Just times change.

I think evangelical lifestyles don't help. Ignoring "mainstream" science and having absolute faith in something one cannot prove leads to a susceptibility to these things.
Hence why right wing american conservatives seem so such easy prey to Qanon.

The UFO grift started before the advent of the internet but it proved that many in middle America could be suckered into believing aliens rather than military tech.
The internet has simply made things much, much worse.
Its not just UFO's though.

Fake moon landings
Adrenochrome
Flat Earth
Hollow Earth
Vaccine microchips/magnetism
George Soros
Kent Hovind of Patriot Bible University claiming men lived alongside Dinosaurs.

It just goes on.

I sometimes feel we are watching people devolve in front of our eyes. Its like a reverse enlightenment.