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Author Topic: The DWP  (Read 1330 times)

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The DWP
« on: April 8, 2024, 10:10:04 am »
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/07/dwp-carer-allowance-benefit-payment-case

‘DWP are the real criminals’: carer in tatters after ‘brutal’ fraud prosecution

Vivienne Groom was threatened with a prison term despite a call-handler saying she did not need to declare her 16-hour a week job


Vivienne Groom never had so much as a parking ticket before she stood in the imposing glass-panelled dock at Chester crown court last November.

She was, she was told, in the same courtroom where Myra Hindley was jailed more than half a century ago for some of the worst crimes in modern British history.

Groom, 59, was being prosecuted for failing to declare her minimum wage job in a Co-op store. She worked there while single-handedly caring for her elderly mother who had dementia and had suffered a stroke – something she drew £60 a week carer’s allowance for.

Using the Proceeds of Crime Act – legislation normally reserved for major drug dealers – the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) wanted to punish this failure to declare the job by seizing the £16,105 inheritance Groom had been left by Maud, the mother she cared for, when she died at the age of 91.

Vivienne Groom never had so much as a parking ticket before she stood in the imposing glass-panelled dock at Chester crown court last November.

She was, she was told, in the same courtroom where Myra Hindley was jailed more than half a century ago for some of the worst crimes in modern British history.

Groom, 59, was being prosecuted for failing to declare her minimum wage job in a Co-op store. She worked there while single-handedly caring for her elderly mother who had dementia and had suffered a stroke – something she drew £60 a week carer’s allowance for.

Using the Proceeds of Crime Act – legislation normally reserved for major drug dealers – the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) wanted to punish this failure to declare the job by seizing the £16,105 inheritance Groom had been left by Maud, the mother she cared for, when she died at the age of 91.

A shy and quiet woman, she wept in the dock as she was told she faced up to seven years in prison for benefit fraud.

Groom worked 16 hours a week at the Co-op while caring for her mother when she first started received the £60-a-week carer’s allowance in 2014. She did not declare the job because she was told by a social worker that she did not need to, she said, adding that it was an honest mistake.

Groom said she phoned the DWP to tell them she no longer wanted to receive the £60-a-week carer’s allowance when the Co-op increased her hours in 2015, a year after she began caring for her mother. She said, however, that a DWP call-handler told her: “We’ll have to look into this and get back to you.”

“And that was it. I never heard anything then until last year,” she said, referring to the letter in 2022 informing Groom that she was being prosecuted for benefit fraud: “They’re horrible on the phone. One woman said to me: ‘If you hadn’t done this, you wouldn’t be in this predicament would you?’”

The DWP has the technology to spot when someone is being overpaid carer’s allowance and should be able to notify them immediately. Nevertheless, many carers are left to rack up huge bills and – like Groom – face the threat of criminal prosecution.


Groom admitted her failure at the first opportunity and was paying back £30 a month to the DWP, but almost as soon as she received her inheritance from Maud after she died in 2021 – the government froze her bank account.

“I was sick to my stomach,” she said. “I rang them and said: ‘You can’t take it, it’s my mum’s inheritance’ – and she just said ‘Oh we can’ and that was it.”

In a hearing at Chester crown court in November, the judge, Steven Everett, appeared to accept Groom’s explanation that it was an honest mistake.

He said she had found the claims process difficult to understand and that there were “no aggravating factors” but “a wealth of mitigating ones”.

“You were doing the best you could for your mother,” he told Groom, handing down a 12-month community order instead of sending her to prison.

The judge was scathing about the DWP’s handling of the case. He questioned why it had taken a year to come to court after Groom admitted her failings in an interview with benefits officers in November 2022.

The judge ordered the DWP to calculate how much carer’s allowance Groom would have been entitled to had she declared her part-time Co-op job, adding that he was “truly unimpressed” they had not done so.

Yet after a further two court hearings before two different judges, the DWP still refused to calculate the difference – which would have meant Groom would have to repay a lower figure – and insisted it take the full £16,105 inheritance.

Last Wednesday, another judge – the fourth in six months – finally confiscated the family bequest. In a hearing that lasted barely five minutes, Judge Berkson said he understood that Groom has a “sentimental attachment” to the inheritance but that it must still be seized.

A DWP investigator, sat at the back of the court, told the judge the inheritance would be “with the CPS this afternoon” at the stroke of a signature. And then it was gone.

“I’m just gutted,” said Groom outside court. Her husband of 34 years, Geoff Groom, said: “Viv is being punished now for looking after her mum. The DWP are the criminals here. This can’t be right.”

Groom is one of thousands of carers who have been fined huge sums after unwittingly breaching earnings rules in a scandal that has brought condemnation from a cross-party group of MPs.

Speaking to the Guardian at their home in Tarvin, near Chester, Groom said the whole episode had been “a nightmare” that had left them “in shock”. “I’ve never, never, never been in trouble with the police. Never. It’s heart-wrenching,” she said.

A second feature of this is the huge power imbalance that leaves unpaid carers, often with highly stressful caring commitments, facing the might of the state without legal help.

Groom had no legal representation during the four court hearings to decide her fate. She was told she was not entitled to legal aid because of the £16,105 inheritance, even though the government had frozen the bank account so she had no way to access it. One solicitor wanted to charge £1,700 to represent her, way beyond the couple’s means.

“It has been a nightmare,” she said last week. “I don’t know how we’ve got through actually, I really really don’t.”

The DWP said: “We are committed to fairness in the welfare system while protecting the public purse. Claimants have a responsibility to inform DWP of any changes in their circumstances that could impact their award, and it is right that we recover taxpayers’ money when this has not occurred.”




Fucking scum
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #1 on: April 8, 2024, 12:53:11 pm »
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/07/unpaid-carers-allowance-payment-prosecution-earnings-rules

Carers threatened with prosecution over minor breaches of UK benefit rules

Tens of thousands of unpaid carers looking after disabled, frail or ill relatives are being forced to repay huge sums to the government and threatened with criminal prosecution after unwittingly breaching earnings rules by just a few pounds a week.

People who claim the £81.90-a-week carer’s allowance for looking after loved ones while working part-time are being forced by the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) to pay back money that has been erroneously overpaid to them, in some cases running to more than £20,000, or risk going to prison.

The repayments, which mainly hit carers on low incomes, have been criticised as a draconian response to mostly minor earnings rules infringements caused by DWP oversights, and what MPs have called “honest mistakes” by claimants confused by an opaque and complex system.

MPs and charities have called for an urgent overhaul of the carer’s allowance, saying it was wrong that carers who devoted their lives to looking after loved ones, saving the UK billions of pounds and helping prop up the NHS and care system, were being treated like fraudsters for mostly inadvertent errors.

Ed Davey, the Liberal Democrat leader, said: “Most unpaid carers struggle financially, and for many it takes a toll on their mental and physical health too. The truth is, unpaid family carers underpin our entire care sector, and help to keep the NHS on its feet too. The government should value and support carers, not treat them like criminals.”

The carer’s allowance is paid to those who provide at least 35 hours of unpaid care a week, giving up large portions of their lives to look after, in most cases, disabled, sick or frail relatives.

Those in receipt of the benefit are allowed to have a second income from a job, but there are strict government limits on how much they can earn – currently £151 a week.

If a carer’s income rises above that level, through working a few extra hours, or even a pay rise, they forfeit the entire benefit, an “overpayment” that the DWP seeks to recover, often by any means possible.


The problem is compounded by the fact that the DWP has IT systems that flag when a carer’s income breaches the threshold, but fails in many cases to act on the information, allowing carers to rack up thousands of pounds’ worth of overpayments over months and years before, in some cases, pursuing them in the courts for benefit fraud.

The severity of the DWP’s approach was highlighted last week when it went to court to seize a £16,000 inheritance belonging to a former unpaid carer and part-time supermarket worker, Vivienne Groom, months after it successfully prosecuted her for benefit fraud relating to breaches of earnings rules.

Groom had agreed to repay in instalments £16,000 relating to earnings breaches incurred between 2014 and 2019. The DWP used proceeds-of-crime laws – normally used to seize cars, cash and properties owned by convicted major criminals – to take the bequest, which had been left to her by the mother she dedicated so much of her life to caring for.

In another case, shared with the Guardian, an unpaid carer with a part-time charity job who unknowingly breached the threshold by an average of £4.40 a week and £58 in total – a breach caused by the automatic uprating of the national minimum wage – was told to repay £1,715 in “overpayments”, including a £50 civil penalty.

In a third case, a mother and part-time bookkeeper who cared for her autistic child received a £5,200 demand. When she appealed and supplied detailed accounts to support her case, she said the DWP disallowed an expense claim for a work laptop, ensuring she breached earnings rules and was liable for a repayment penalty.

Despite ministers promising five years ago that data-matching technology would largely eliminate overpayments, official figures show they are still a big headache. In 2022-23, 26,700 carers were asked to repay sums relating to earnings breaches. More than 800 were repaying sums between £5,000 and £20,000, and 36 were repaying more than £20,000.

Stephen Timms, the Labour chair of the Commons work and pensions committee, which heavily criticised DWP failings after investigating carer’s allowance overpayments five years ago, said the continuing scale of the problem was deeply disappointing. “It should not be happening,” he said.

The 2019 inquiry by MPs concluded that the vast majority of earnings-related overpayments were down to “honest mistakes” by carers, while administrative failures by the DWP meant the errors were not picked up before they spiralled into huge overpayments. It said the design of the benefit “sets carers up for a fall” and urged ministers to do more to limit the risk to claimants.

The repayments build up rapidly because even if the weekly earnings limit is exceeded by as little as £1, claimants become automatically ineligible for the entire carer’s allowance. This results in a “cliff edge” repayment penalty unmatched in its severity in the benefits system.

Campaigners say the DWP’s failure to investigate thousands of potential earnings breaches identified by its own data-matching technology each month means infringements that could have been spotted and corrected within weeks are allowed to accumulate unchecked for months, and sometimes years.

Emily Holzhausen, the director of policy and public affairs at the charity Carers UK, said: “The whole DWP system surrounding the carer’s allowance earnings limit needs sorting out urgently, with the level of the earnings limit increased and processes modernised, digitised and reformed.”

The DWP insists claimants are at fault for failing to tell carer’s allowance unit officials their earnings have changed. A spokesperson for the department said: “We carefully balance our duty to the taxpayer to recover overpayments, and safeguards are in place to manage repayments fairly. Claimants have a responsibility to ensure they are entitled to benefits and to inform the DWP of any changes in their circumstances that could impact their award.”

There are 5 million unpaid carers in the UK, of whom nearly 1 million claim the carer’s allowance..

Many unpaid carers give up work or go part-time when they look after partners or relatives. An estimated 44% of people on carer’s allowance are in poverty. In most cases, repayments are deducted monthly from benefits or wages, meaning claimants can be paying off debts for years.

Charities say the impact on carers forced to repay huge sums is devastating. “The cases are heart-rending. They talk about being deeply shocked, very negative impacts on their mental health, and struggling financially whilst still continuing to provide significant amounts of care,” said Holzhausen.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Millie

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #2 on: April 8, 2024, 04:14:01 pm »
I used to be on Carers Allowance.  I looked after my Mum until she died in 2022.  They are supposed to pay you for 8 weeks following death but in my case my payments ceased immediately, leaving me with no money at all.

I asked for a reconsideration and that was refused.  So off I went and did some research.  I used to work in the legal profession so I knew where to look, and how best to present my case.  I bombarded them with quotes from Hansard regarding their rules following a death.

I eventually got the money I was owed.  But it was stressful and totally unnecessary.

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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #3 on: April 8, 2024, 04:28:25 pm »
I used to be on Carers Allowance.  I looked after my Mum until she died in 2022.  They are supposed to pay you for 8 weeks following death but in my case my payments ceased immediately, leaving me with no money at all.

I asked for a reconsideration and that was refused.  So off I went and did some research.  I used to work in the legal profession so I knew where to look, and how best to present my case.  I bombarded them with quotes from Hansard regarding their rules following a death.

I eventually got the money I was owed.  But it was stressful and totally unnecessary.

Thats a terrible story, Im taken aback actually.
You shouldnt have to go to those lengths
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Offline Millie

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #4 on: April 8, 2024, 04:31:04 pm »
Thats a terrible story, Im taken aback actually.
You shouldnt have to go to those lengths

No you shouldn't.  Likely to be some sort of comupter error but that's not the point. 
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Offline JoeH

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #5 on: April 8, 2024, 05:02:56 pm »
It's ok to 'legally" have an offshore account and syphon money off into it, but us plebs make a mistake with our tax or claims we are hung drawn and quartered for it. I refuse to call any kind of social payment "Benefits", it is not a benefit, it is supposed to be a safety net.

Offline redbyrdz

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #6 on: April 8, 2024, 06:40:28 pm »
I saw a shorter version of the story in the OP on the bbc. What I don't get is, they confiscated her whole 16k, even though she owed them less. How can that be legal? (I'm not questioning if it cam be "right", because nothing is right about this case).

It's also crazy that she can't get legal aid. The DWP have robbed her,and she can't get it back, because she  can't afford to go to a higher court.
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Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #7 on: April 8, 2024, 07:24:03 pm »
Thats a terrible story, Im taken aback actually.
You shouldnt have to go to those lengths

I don't know if you have any experience with the DWP, but it's standard practice for them to make things as difficult and stressful, as possible.

It's a numbers game for them.  They that know not everyone will go through the process and many give up, therefore, they save money.  It's that simple.

Offline Wabaloolah

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #8 on: April 9, 2024, 12:41:12 am »
I saw a shorter version of the story in the OP on the bbc. What I don't get is, they confiscated her whole 16k, even though she owed them less. How can that be legal? (I'm not questioning if it cam be "right", because nothing is right about this case).

It's also crazy that she can't get legal aid. The DWP have robbed her,and she can't get it back, because she  can't afford to go to a higher court.
interest on what she owed I imagine, typical to go after the little people when the people they should be going after were the scum that received funding during CoVid and had it all written off at a stroke!
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Offline oldfordie

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #9 on: April 9, 2024, 02:11:50 am »
It reminds you of the treatment the Post Office gave out to all the Post masters.
Evil people with power thinking they can do whatever they want regardless of the facts. they think they are untouchable.
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Re: The DWP
« Reply #10 on: April 9, 2024, 10:49:08 am »
Absolute c*nts.

Offline Sammy5IsAlive

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #11 on: April 9, 2024, 02:26:33 pm »
It reminds you of the treatment the Post Office gave out to all the Post masters.
Evil people with power thinking they can do whatever they want regardless of the facts. they think they are untouchable.

It seems very similar.

Assuming her call to the DWP was recorded there should never have been any question of fraud. There would even be a pretty good argument that the overpayment should not have been recoverable due to official error. But it seems that the DWP bullied her into pleading guilty without any legal advice - which IIRC was one of the big issues in the Post Office scandal. Once she had pleaded guilty it looks like she was stuffed when the POCA proceedings came around.

It is a bit odd that the BBC article on the same lady said that it was not the DWP she told but a Social Worker (who told her she did not need to declare the change in her earnings). If that was the case the overpayment would be valid and I guess her complaint would be with the Council. Although she still shouldn't have been prosecuted for fraud.

Sadly it is often the most honest people who get caught up in things like this as they just accept what they are told by the DWP and don't fight their corner and get advice/help.

Offline oldfordie

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #12 on: April 9, 2024, 03:04:37 pm »
It seems very similar.

Assuming her call to the DWP was recorded there should never have been any question of fraud. There would even be a pretty good argument that the overpayment should not have been recoverable due to official error. But it seems that the DWP bullied her into pleading guilty without any legal advice - which IIRC was one of the big issues in the Post Office scandal. Once she had pleaded guilty it looks like she was stuffed when the POCA proceedings came around.

It is a bit odd that the BBC article on the same lady said that it was not the DWP she told but a Social Worker (who told her she did not need to declare the change in her earnings). If that was the case the overpayment would be valid and I guess her complaint would be with the Council. Although she still shouldn't have been prosecuted for fraud.

Sadly it is often the most honest people who get caught up in things like this as they just accept what they are told by the DWP and don't fight their corner and get advice/help.
Yeah, It's the attitude of the people investigating the over payment that so disgusting. they had the same am god and your powerless attitude as the bosses of the Post office, put that sort of power in the hands of evil people and you end up with cases like this, you end up with Post office bosses persecuting people who they think are powerless to hit back.
I would drag in everyone involved in her case to explain why they didn't see her situation as a honest mistake. why they never calculated how much should have been deducted from the Inheritance grab. I would say that's more illegal than the charge she faced.
 I totally agree. the only question here is does she have to repay the money.
Also agree about these people going after the easy touches.
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Offline redbyrdz

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #13 on: April 9, 2024, 06:05:29 pm »
It seems very similar.

Assuming her call to the DWP was recorded there should never have been any question of fraud. There would even be a pretty good argument that the overpayment should not have been recoverable due to official error. But it seems that the DWP bullied her into pleading guilty without any legal advice - which IIRC was one of the big issues in the Post Office scandal. Once she had pleaded guilty it looks like she was stuffed when the POCA proceedings came around.

It is a bit odd that the BBC article on the same lady said that it was not the DWP she told but a Social Worker (who told her she did not need to declare the change in her earnings). If that was the case the overpayment would be valid and I guess her complaint would be with the Council. Although she still shouldn't have been prosecuted for fraud.

Sadly it is often the most honest people who get caught up in things like this as they just accept what they are told by the DWP and don't fight their corner and get advice/help.

I think originally a social worker told her she wohldn't need to declare her 16h/week job.
 (Which was wrong). Then a year or so later, she increased her working hours, and called the DWP, who said "we'll get back to you". They never did, and just took her to court another year later.



Think one of the lessons from this is to always deal with the likes of the DWP in writing, even if it is via email or a chat ttansceipt, so you can proof what they said. Also to try and get some sort of legal advice.
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Re: The DWP
« Reply #14 on: April 9, 2024, 06:09:52 pm »
If you write to any official body make sure you put your NI number or the official DWP number. I scan a lot of enquiries about council tax/housing benefit and it really delays any case if all you put on is your name and you don't quote your numbers. 
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Offline Shankly998

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2024, 09:06:55 am »
One of the many parts of government that needs abolishing and reconstituting in a new form

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2024, 01:19:37 pm »
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/10/fined-6000-for-tiny-mistake-carer-penalised-for-extra-shift-at-supermarket

Scum.

Fined £6,000 for tiny mistake: carer penalised for extra shift at supermarket

Helen Grater claimed carer’s allowance while looking after seriously ill partner – and unknowingly exceeded earnings threshold

In the spring of 2018, Helen Grater’s world began to fall apart. Her partner, Mark Young, then 55, had been diagnosed with throat cancer. He also had lung disease. He was dying and desperately needed her care.

Grater took unpaid leave from her low-paid job at Sainsbury’s and drew £64.80 a week in carer’s allowance so she could look after him full-time. The money – which, at most, amounted to £1.85 an hour – didn’t come close to paying the bills, but it was better than nothing.

“It was just after his first or second chemo. He was so ill. He was really in a bad way, so it was just a case of needing to stop working and being there for him,” she says.

Eventually, Grater, 55, was able to return to work and did three shifts a week at Sainsbury’s. The rest of the time she cared for her long-term partner as he underwent gruelling rounds of chemotherapy and radiotherapy.

Grater believed she did not need to tell the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) about her modest increase in earnings because her universal credits had been reduced automatically.

Yet this honest mistake plunged her into a fresh nightmare: the DWP told her she had been fraudulently claiming carer’s allowance by failing to notify the government that she had taken on a third shift. It landed her with a bill for more than £6,000.

“I couldn’t believe it,” she says. “You expect a safety net to be there for when you call on it. There was a safety net but [with] a huge gaping hole in it which I fell straight through.”

Grater had exceeded the then-earnings limit of £120 a week by only a small amount with her low-paid part-time job, but it had pushed her over the DWP’s “cliff edge”.

This means unpaid carers are forced to pay back the entirety of their carer’s allowance for every week they were in breach of the strict earnings limit, even if they exceeded it by £1. So a 26-week breach results in a repayment of not £26, but £2,182.

The government is facing calls to overhaul the system after the Guardian revealed that tens of thousands of unpaid carers are facing severe fines, some over £20,000, and being threatened with criminal prosecution for relatively modest and unintentional breaches of rules branded “cruel and nonsensical”.

Young, 61, was given the all-clear from cancer two months ago yet still struggles with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD). But Grater is furious that caring for her partner – and saving the government money by doing so – has left her in debt for the first time in her life.

“I’ve never, ever been in trouble with the police before. I’ve never, ever been in debt,” she says.

“When you’re going through something like that anyway you’ve got enough worries on your mind. It’s the last thing you think about.

“My partner was still very sick, even though he had finished his treatment. He had lost four stone in three months. There’s so many things going on in your head.”

Grater said she pleaded with the DWP to explain how she had run up such a huge bill but only after many desperate phone calls did she get an answer. But there was no chance of a reprieve.

“I said: ‘Can we not discuss this and I can explain what’s going on?’ but they’re just not interested in explanations. It doesn’t matter what you say.

“They don’t really care. They just want the money. They fob you off and fob you off and then you give up. It’s absolutely disgraceful.”

The DWP has the technology to spot when a carer’s earnings have exceeded the threshold, often through a pay rise or a new job. But, as the Guardian revealed this week, fewer than half of these cases are investigated until much later – landing already-struggling carers with bills running to thousands of pounds.


To this day, Grater blames herself for not telling the DWP she had taken on an extra shift. For years she thought she was one of the only people caught up in this mess. Only this week, after this newspaper shed a light on the ongoing problems, did she realise tens of thousands of others are in the same position.

“I felt this was my fault. I just wanted to get back and get some extra shifts, get off universal credit, and get back paying into the system,” she says.

“I was shocked to see how many people are going through the same thing,” she says. “You know you can’t fight it. You don’t have any hope in hell. No one’s listening to you. They just were not interested.”

She adds: “The next time I will not look after anybody. The government can do it. I was trying to save the government money and do the right thing. You see these reports in the newspaper about companies fiddling for billions and you just think: are you being serious?”
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline oldfordie

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2024, 01:36:32 pm »
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/10/fined-6000-for-tiny-mistake-carer-penalised-for-extra-shift-at-supermarket

Scum.

Fined £6,000 for tiny mistake: carer penalised for extra shift at supermarket

Helen Grater claimed carer’s allowance while looking after seriously ill partner – and unknowingly exceeded earnings threshold

In the spring of 2018, Helen Grater’s world began to fall apart. Her partner, Mark Young, then 55, had been diagnosed with throat cancer. He also had lung disease. He was dying and desperately needed her care.

Grater took unpaid leave from her low-paid job at Sainsbury’s and drew £64.80 a week in carer’s allowance so she could look after him full-time. The money – which, at most, amounted to £1.85 an hour – didn’t come close to paying the bills, but it was better than nothing.

“It was just after his first or second chemo. He was so ill. He was really in a bad way, so it was just a case of needing to stop working and being there for him,” she says.

Eventually, Grater, 55, was able to return to work and did three shifts a week at Sainsbury’s. The rest of the time she cared for her long-term partner as he underwent gruelling rounds of chemotherapy and radiotherapy.

Grater believed she did not need to tell the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) about her modest increase in earnings because her universal credits had been reduced automatically.

Yet this honest mistake plunged her into a fresh nightmare: the DWP told her she had been fraudulently claiming carer’s allowance by failing to notify the government that she had taken on a third shift. It landed her with a bill for more than £6,000.

“I couldn’t believe it,” she says. “You expect a safety net to be there for when you call on it. There was a safety net but [with] a huge gaping hole in it which I fell straight through.”

Grater had exceeded the then-earnings limit of £120 a week by only a small amount with her low-paid part-time job, but it had pushed her over the DWP’s “cliff edge”.

This means unpaid carers are forced to pay back the entirety of their carer’s allowance for every week they were in breach of the strict earnings limit, even if they exceeded it by £1. So a 26-week breach results in a repayment of not £26, but £2,182.

The government is facing calls to overhaul the system after the Guardian revealed that tens of thousands of unpaid carers are facing severe fines, some over £20,000, and being threatened with criminal prosecution for relatively modest and unintentional breaches of rules branded “cruel and nonsensical”.

Young, 61, was given the all-clear from cancer two months ago yet still struggles with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD). But Grater is furious that caring for her partner – and saving the government money by doing so – has left her in debt for the first time in her life.

“I’ve never, ever been in trouble with the police before. I’ve never, ever been in debt,” she says.

“When you’re going through something like that anyway you’ve got enough worries on your mind. It’s the last thing you think about.

“My partner was still very sick, even though he had finished his treatment. He had lost four stone in three months. There’s so many things going on in your head.”

Grater said she pleaded with the DWP to explain how she had run up such a huge bill but only after many desperate phone calls did she get an answer. But there was no chance of a reprieve.

“I said: ‘Can we not discuss this and I can explain what’s going on?’ but they’re just not interested in explanations. It doesn’t matter what you say.

“They don’t really care. They just want the money. They fob you off and fob you off and then you give up. It’s absolutely disgraceful.”

The DWP has the technology to spot when a carer’s earnings have exceeded the threshold, often through a pay rise or a new job. But, as the Guardian revealed this week, fewer than half of these cases are investigated until much later – landing already-struggling carers with bills running to thousands of pounds.


To this day, Grater blames herself for not telling the DWP she had taken on an extra shift. For years she thought she was one of the only people caught up in this mess. Only this week, after this newspaper shed a light on the ongoing problems, did she realise tens of thousands of others are in the same position.

“I felt this was my fault. I just wanted to get back and get some extra shifts, get off universal credit, and get back paying into the system,” she says.

“I was shocked to see how many people are going through the same thing,” she says. “You know you can’t fight it. You don’t have any hope in hell. No one’s listening to you. They just were not interested.”

She adds: “The next time I will not look after anybody. The government can do it. I was trying to save the government money and do the right thing. You see these reports in the newspaper about companies fiddling for billions and you just think: are you being serious?”
Makes you wonder what's going on behind the scenes, are the Torys putting pressure on the DWP bosses to go after anyone who has received benefits they may not be entitled too regardless of the circumstances, all about trying to get the numbers up so the Torys can say people are abusing our welfare system.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2024, 02:49:55 pm »
Makes you wonder what's going on behind the scenes, are the Torys putting pressure on the DWP bosses to go after anyone who has received benefits they may not be entitled too regardless of the circumstances, all about trying to get the numbers up so the Torys can say people are abusing our welfare system.

But aren't they alienating even more of their core voters by doing so?

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2024, 02:58:48 pm »
My mate works for them. He says it’s the biggest debt collection outfit in the UK. He works in repayments and *he says* he takes whatever he’s offered even if it’s £1 a week. Not sure how that works these days with every call recorded & the pressure to get results.
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Re: The DWP
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2024, 05:04:18 pm »
But aren't they alienating even more of their core voters by doing so?
Good point, you would think that penny would have dropped by now.
I think the Torys lost all respect for the public after Brexit and Johnson, they began to think they were so clever they tell the public what to think. this stopped them worrying about whether they were upsetting Tory voters, just tell them some bull... and they will swallow it.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
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Re: The DWP
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2024, 11:24:28 am »
Carers Allowance itself is a joke, it's well below minimum wage.

Essentially you get some breadcrumbs as an income because you have no other means to arrange full time care for a loved one, anything you earn over the limit means you are taken off your CA. If caring and earning min wage, you get around £220pw, which would then mean you lose entitlements to some other benefits, like housing. £900pm to live on to pay for everything in 2024 is a joke, that is someone who is working and caring ..

Benefit system is broken to fuck and forever always will be. The shift over to Universal Credit has seen some people slightly better off, of course the majority will be worse off and there is nothing they can do about it.

I knew someone who had their leg taken off in hospital, whilst in surgery they stopped the benefit claims and stated they were fit for work.

Utter scum, completely agree.


- all in my opinion of course -

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2024, 08:07:43 am »
The cliff edge for ‘overpayment’ is a joke. If someone earns a quid over £150 a week their entire allowance is withdrawn. It’s institutionalised poverty and defacto slave labour. If the 5 million or so unpaid carers unanimously decided to no longer do their ‘job’ the uk would be fucked. These people should be respected, cherished and paid properly.

Edit: just saw an article that claimed these unpaid heroes save the public £167bn a year.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2024, 08:20:20 am by thejbs »

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Re: The DWP
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2024, 08:59:39 am »
Fucking Scum.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/14/leak-reveals-tory-plan-to-cut-cold-weather-cash-for-disabled-people

Leak reveals Tory plan to cut cold weather cash for disabled people

Hundreds of thousands fewer disabled people could receive cold weather payments under the Conservatives’ planned post-election disability benefit reforms, according to an internal government report seen by the Observer.

The briefing, by civil servants at the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), says that under the plans, new applicants for disability benefits in England and Wales would only qualify for cold weather payments if they passed a much harsher assessment than exists at present.

“We recognise that this recommendation will result in fewer low-income people being eligible for [cold weather payments],” the briefing says, adding that some higher-income people will gain access to them.

Cold weather payments worth £25 for every week of freezing weather between November and March are automatically given to people on certain benefits.

Working-age disabled people qualify for the payments via the work capability assessment (WCA), which decides whether people are sufficiently sick or disabled to get disability payments through universal credit.

The Conservatives intend to abolish the WCA after the next general election. Instead, universal credit disability payments will go to people who qualify for the separate personal independence payment (Pip) disability benefit.

The WCA became notorious in the 2010s for unfairly refusing disability benefit. But it has softened in recent years and now about 80% of applicants qualify for higher benefits or reduced requirements to look for work. By contrast, the Pip benefit assessment rejects nearly half of new applications.

The DWP briefing, which was written in October, recommends that once the WCA is scrapped in 2026, newly disabled people will need to pass the Pip benefit assessment in order to qualify for cold weather payments.

The briefing rejects the creation of a separate new qualifying test, as it claims it would add complexity to a system that has just been simplified.

“This is further proof of the brutal impacts that the government’s proposed overhaul of the disability benefits system will have on disabled people unable to earn an adequate income through paid employment, yet consigned to poverty through denial of social security payments,” said Ellen Clifford of Disabled People Against Cuts. “Many disabled people are unable to work full-time hours and are much more likely to be in low-paid employment than non-disabled people.”

It is likely that in the long run, hundreds of thousands of disabled people who would previously have qualified for cold weather payments will no longer do so. The briefing says that, as of February 2023, there were 850,000 claimants who qualified for benefit through the WCA and did not have a Pip.

However, the changes will not affect existing claimants until 2029 at the earliest, and at least some of them will receive transitional protection for an unspecified period after that. The immediate impact from 2026 will be on those applying for benefits for the first time.

Under the changes, about 460,000 existing Pip claimants would qualify for cold weather payments for the first time. These claimants are less likely to be on the lowest incomes, and overall the changes are predicted to cut spending on cold weather payments by about £12m.

Peter Smith, director of policy at fuel poverty charity National Energy Action, said: “The additional energy costs faced by households with long-term disabilities is well evidenced, as is the mental and physical strain this brings.

“If these changes are made and eligibility is narrowed, the impact could be life-threatening – with fewer very vulnerable households able to access this lifeline during exceptionally cold weather or made to jump through ever more hoops.

“The UK government should be looking to increase support for energy bills for the most vulnerable, not restricting it for people who desperately need help.”

The DWP briefing also recommends other government departments apply the same changes in eligibility to entitlements such as free childcare, warm home discounts and help with healthcare costs, although disabled people may be able to qualify for these through other routes.

The DWP said: “While we do not comment on speculation, we have been clear that our structural reforms will be rolled out gradually from 2026 and transitional protection will ensure nobody experiences a financial loss at the point of moving onto the new system. We will always ensure our welfare system supports the most vulnerable, having made over 1.1m cold weather payments this winter, and will set out full details on any further reforms in due course.”
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.