Topic: The Alternative Premier League Table 2023-24

[courty61]

Yeah I know why, just in terms of the strength of the sides this year

[farawayred]

Yeah I know why, just in terms of the strength of the sides this year

It doesn't matter for two reasons. First, it's the same for all competitors, and secondly, the form may change throughout the year - a team doing well now may fall off a cliff later on and vice-versa. The APLT doesn't reflect current form. If you want to follow form too, there are other models (links on the previous page).

[Brian Blessed]

It doesn't matter for two reasons. First, it's the same for all competitors, and secondly, the form may change throughout the year - a team doing well now may fall off a cliff later on and vice-versa. The APLT doesn't reflect current form. If you want to follow form too, there are other models (links on the previous page).

Exactly! It’s like when people were suggested the 90 point line should be moved to 95 because of the insane points us and City were getting.

It doesn’t actually matter if it’s 90, 95, 80 or 73. It’s the same for all teams. What matters is how far above or below you are compared to par.

Prof picked a very reasonable 90, which is it keeps things neater.

[Prof]

I love this thread etc, but feel a slight issue that Wolves away is a par 1 and West Ham away a par 3

Yes. As the others have said, it's just to keep it objective.  Otherwise we'd be debating the par ratings forever 

The difference between 13th and 14th could be as small as goals scored the previous season, but the par rating swing is 2 points.  Every season has a couple of debatable ones, but overall, it's just a small compromise of a deliberately simple model.

[courty61]

Yes. As the others have said, it's just to keep it objective.  Otherwise we'd be debating the par ratings forever 

The difference between 13th and 14th could be as small as goals scored the previous season, but the par rating swing is 2 points.  Every season has a couple of debatable ones, but overall, it's just a small compromise of a deliberately simple model.

Yeah I appreciate that. Dunno, maybe Wolves/West Ham is just one of those this season.

Love the thread etc though!

[Bobsackamano]

So Chelsea are now on -10 after 5 games. Has there ever been a worse start in the APL?

[Prof]

[Prof]

Five clubs with title winning hauls from the first 5 matches (Brighton also on +1 I think).  I don't think we've seen that before. It'll be one to watch over the coming weeks, how many will be able to maintain that record?

[RJH]

Yeah I appreciate that. Dunno, maybe Wolves/West Ham is just one of those this season.

Love the thread etc though!

Well, if you went on Home games only rather than the overall table, Wolves and West Ham would both be par 1s, as would Forest, but Chelsea would be a par 3. 

[TepidT2O]

Hang on?

Wolves was a par 3?

They finished bottom half, I thought they’d be par one.

[Ghost Town]

Hang on?

Wolves was a par 3?

They finished bottom half, I thought they’d be par one.

You sure about that?

[RedG13]

Hang on?

Wolves was a par 3?

They finished bottom half, I thought they’d be par one.

Wolves finished 13th.

[RedG13]

Five clubs with title winning hauls from the first 5 matches (Brighton also on +1 I think).  I don't think we've seen that before. It'll be one to watch over the coming weeks, how many will be able to maintain that record?

Thanks for keep doing this
Also when would you add Brighton to this?, not sure anybody should be dropped though right now

[Prof]

Thanks for keep doing this
Also when would you add Brighton to this?, not sure anybody should be dropped though right now

It takes a long time to add a team, so I prefer to make the judgement at least a third of the way through the season.  It's easier to replace a team than add a new one (and 8 teams would make the graph even more congested).

[Elmo!]

Given that Chelsea finished on the bottom half last season, doesn’t that make it +1 for them and -2 for us??”

Top 13, because the featured teams can't play themselves so it makes 12 par 1s

Hang on?

Wolves was a par 3?

They finished bottom half, I thought they’d be par one.

How many times do you need to be told? 

[EnfieldRed]

Brighton loss not showing on ManU’s graphic, Prof!
Great start to the season. Pity Richarlison remembered how to play footy this weekend.

[farawayred]

Five clubs with title winning hauls from the first 5 matches (Brighton also on +1 I think).  I don't think we've seen that before. It'll be one to watch over the coming weeks, how many will be able to maintain that record?

I have the feeling that Brighton will, Prof. Give it a few more rounds, but might be worth swapping Chelsea for Brighton in a few rounds. Unless you want to maintain the low values on the ordinate, that is...

[Prof]

Brighton loss not showing on ManU’s graphic, Prof!
Great start to the season. Pity Richarlison remembered how to play footy this weekend.

Ah yes. Thanks. Brighton are missing off the teams list but man Utd is showing as an opponent   

I'll update next week. The dropped points are showing.

[ItzdoctorZ]

This time last season only Arsenal and City had 12 points or more in the real table, the top teams are better this season and the bottom teams are even worse than last season.

[farawayred]

This time last season only Arsenal and City had 12 points or more in the real table, the top teams are better this season and the bottom teams are even worse than last season.

Everything around Everton stinks.

[sminp]

Ah yes. Thanks. Brighton are missing off the teams list but man Utd is showing as an opponent   

I'll update next week. The dropped points are showing.

Chelsea beat Luton too so that is missing some green

[Brian Blessed]

Everton are now -12, I think. It’s folly to exclude that sleeping giant.

[Kashinoda]

Quasi-related.

[ItzdoctorZ]

Quasi-related.

Surprised Burnley are so low, they played City, Tottenham and Villa, with their next two being Forest and United.

That doesn't seem that easy.

[Prof]

Chelsea beat Luton too so that is missing some green

Thanks. I'll check that too

[courty61]

First time we have been +4 since 19/20 and it took a lot longer to get there that season........

[RooiBefok]

APLT Comparison : Klopp's Tenure

[Lynndenberries]

Quasi-related.

Feels about right. Really impressive from us when you consider the changes in midfield, injuries/suspensions in our backline, and the 90 or so minutes we have played with 10 men.

[Brian Blessed]

Feels about right. Really impressive from us when you consider the changes in midfield, injuries/suspensions in our backline, and the 90 or so minutes we have played with 10 men.

great from us, diabolical from Chelsea.

[Party Phil]

Surprised Burnley are so low, they played City, Tottenham and Villa, with their next two being Forest and United.

That doesn't seem that easy.

It probably counts the postponed Luton game within the first 5 fixtures

[BassTunedToRed]

It probably counts the postponed Luton game within the first 5 fixtures

Yeah it will, and as they're ranked 105th, they account for over half of Burnley's opponent ranking total.

[TepidT2O]

How many times do you need to be told? 

I thought it was top 12

Now it’s top 13


Oy vey!

[RedG13]

It takes a long time to add a team, so I prefer to make the judgement at least a third of the way through the season.  It's easier to replace a team than add a new one (and 8 teams would make the graph even more congested).

Yea that makes sense and understandable.

[ItzdoctorZ]

I thought it was top 12

Now it’s top 13


Oy vey!

It's top 12 excluding your own team, so without Liverpool top 12 includes Wolves in 13th.

[Prof]

APLT Comparison : Klopp's Tenure

Nice

Would be good to see them both as separate graphs too as the lines disrupt each other towards the end of the season

[stonecold_jpm]

Our next 3 games looks like our toughest run this season, 7 points or more from those and we are 100% in contention for reaching 90 points and in the title hunt.

[Bobsackamano]

Our next 3 games looks like our toughest run this season, 7 points or more from those and we are 100% in contention for reaching 90 points and in the title hunt.

Yep 7 points would be decent work out of them, especially given that 7 of the next 8 fixtures we should win with Man City away being stuck in the middle of that easy run.

That really could be a nice time to play City as they have theoretically tougher fixtures at Villa, Chelsea and home to Spurs surrounding that fixture.

[Scottymuser]

Quasi-related.

That is a really BS graph though - if you compare Newcastle vs us - we both had Villa; we had each other (but Newcastle were  at home, a massive advantage); we both had one other "big" team away (we had Chelsea, they had City).We then had Wolves away and Bournmouth at home; they had Brentford home and  Brighton away.  Yet according to that table, they had a massively harder schedule, instead of a marginally harder.  Equally, Palace's is meant to be harder than us - that being Brentford , Villa and Sheffield United away, Arsenal and Wolves at home - no way that is a easier fixture list!

[ItzdoctorZ]

That is a really BS graph though - if you compare Newcastle vs us - we both had Villa; we had each other (but Newcastle were  at home, a massive advantage); we both had one other "big" team away (we had Chelsea, they had City).We then had Wolves away and Bournmouth at home; they had Brentford home and  Brighton away.  Yet according to that table, they had a massively harder schedule, instead of a marginally harder.  Equally, Palace's is meant to be harder than us - that being Brentford , Villa and Sheffield United away, Arsenal and Wolves at home - no way that is a easier fixture list!

City are far better than Chelsea and Brentford/Brighton are far better than Wolves/Bournemouth.

Personally I'm surprised Nottingham Forest are so low, they played United, Arsenal and Chelsea away.

[johnny74]

West Ham tomorrow. That's a tough one. Can't see us getting anything from that.