Author Topic: Takumi Minamino  (Read 429938 times)

Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3000 on: December 24, 2021, 08:36:41 pm »
Al doesn't win discussions. He just grinds people down by tediously repeating the same opinions over and over again in different ways until people give up. It's Trump-esque and I'm way past caring what his opinion is on anything.

It remains to be seen whether Taki is a good fit for LFC in the long term, but it's clear that he has a part to play in the short to medium term. Strength in depth matters, and as is the buzz phrase lately, it's a squad game. Taki is displaying the qualities and potential needed to be a part of the squad.

Not being started is not evidence of him being not good enough. It's only evidence that he's not forced his way Klopp's first team plans.  That is hardly a criticism, given how insanely high that bar is. But anything else is mere supposition and conjecture.

Agree with this, especially the bolded bits.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3001 on: December 24, 2021, 08:38:13 pm »
Somehow I see shades of Luis Garcia with Minamino, he got stick for losing the ball and has a similar size and frame as Minamino. I hope he has some great moments like Garcia had with us.

I believe Minamino can play a part when we're trying to play against the low block, feel he has good reflexes in and around the box, I think many defenders would underestimate him, like a slippery little sucker without being dirty. 

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3002 on: December 24, 2021, 08:59:11 pm »
A whole load of nonsense, which isn't even relevant to the discussion. Anyway.

If Neco is not explosive enough and was moved back to RB, then Trent is indeed explosive, yet he is not an attacker for us, is he? You make up arbitrary criteria and then try to fit in everything to them, while ignoring counter-examples.

Do you actually watch us play. Are you seriously suggesting that Trent has explosive pace and should play as an attacker ?

Personally I would say the reason Trent doesn't start for England is precisely because he hasn't got the pace of Kyle Walker or Reece James.

I don't know a squad because I appreciate squad players. You know a squad because you dismiss them and want 14 starters?

O'Shea was at United for 12 seasons. Fletcher was at United for 13 seasons. Wes Brown was at United for 14 seasons. Park Ji-sung was at United for 7 seasons. It is no wonder that they raked in all those appearances.

However, Taki has been here for just two years and you want players of his ilk out right away and then complain that he isn't making appearances. If every player who has a limited role in the squad is gotten rid of immediately, you wouldn't have a squad left, you wouldn't have these players raking appearances. If you get rid of all these players, you'd have a First XI and a bench. That's 18 players max. Going into a season with 18 players in hand and playing in 4 competitions doesn't even make sense, no one will even take you seriously if you start complaining of injuries/fixtures/COVID or anything.

Also, even if we consciously get rid of our squad players, we'd have new players to fill the squad again, every couple of years, which is fine, but then you'll again be complaining of their standard, and then the cycle will go on. We can never afford to have 25 players who are all of Top quality Liverpool standard players, unless we sell our souls and become like City or PSG. Do you want that? Maybe you do, connecting the dots with your agenda against FSG and against our squad players.

Thank God, Jurgen Klopp is our manager. He is as far away in mentality and ideas from you as one can be. He knows the importance of each and every individual in the squad who is contributing when asked to.

For me, squad players can leave if they want to play more elsewhere for their career. But if they are happy here, doing the role they are given, all's well and good. I mean, did FSG tell you that they can't afford the wages of these squad players? Wtf is your gripe with additional numbers in the squad?

Quality wise, none of those players were anything special. They were not genuine first team starters. We all know who were the genuine starters for United, let's not pretend as if we started watching football yesterday. Neville, Irwin, Cantona, Cole, Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Beckham, Ferdinand, Van Nistelrooy, Vidic, Rooney, Ronaldo, Carrick etc. etc. were some of the genuine starters over the years. These four players were used for rotation, regardless of the competition. Also, the points totals were lower in those years for Top sides, so they could afford to play these players in the League and get away with it. With City and us raising the bar, and with the amount of money floating around in the rest of the league, we have to flog our World Class starters more often than not in the League.

You could argue that Taki is more talented than any of those four players. Yet, Ferguson kept them over the years, that's how he built a squad. He knew he needed a squad over just first team players. He was loyal to them and they repaid him by accepting their role.



No mate the likes of O'Shea, Brown, Fletcher and Park racked up those kind of Premier League appearances because they were starting 20 or 30 League games a season. Taki has started a grand total of 4 League games for us in two years. The worst thing is despite everyone telling me how well he is doing and how much better he is playing his League minutes have actually plummeted.

19/20.....242 minutes, 20/21.......268 minutes, 21/22.......40 minutes.

The craziest thing about your post though is to suggest that the four United players League appearances are comparable to Taki. Park and Fletcher played a very high proportion of the big games and were used to nullify the top sides best players. Whilst tactically United against the more agricultural teams would bring in either Brown or O'Shea at right back and go three at the back with Evra pushing on.

They had key roles within the team.

Taki doesn't, even when we are down to the barebones he doesn't get to start.



Now we come to the squad issue. Where are you getting a squad of 14 from. We have four forwards who are completely viable options for the front three in Mo, Jota, Bobby and Mane.

In midfield Hendo, Thiago, Fabinho, Oxlade, Keita, Milner, Jones and Elliott are genuine starting options in midfield.

In defence Robbo, Tsimikas, Virgil, Matip, Konate, Gomez and Trent are genuine defensive starters.

So that is 19 outfield players who are genuine starting options. So almost two players per position.

Then we have the likes of Phiilips, Taki etc and the kids who can fill in.
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Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3003 on: December 24, 2021, 09:13:13 pm »
Excellent riposte PiM  but be prepared for the goalposts to be moved again. Our squad shits all over that United one with bells on. They'd be 3rd ish but out of the running for top spot. It's a credit to the boss his development of our squad over the years without the bottomless pit City and Chelsea have financially. A fucking miracle of modern science. This squad of ours would run through brick walls for each other and the boss. Taki has gone up a level this season. If you can't see that, nice swan, see you later, alligator.

Oh, yeah! Didn't take long mate.

Not intending to waste anymore time, the world would have to collapse before some people can gain some perspective. 

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3004 on: December 24, 2021, 09:14:05 pm »
When you are mini-me at 130 lb soaking wet it does, especially if your weight regime is aimed at keeping your quickness intact.

Klopp is very patient, i think hes just holding him back until hes physically able to deal. There's something pretty special in his metrics/eye test which had us buy him in the first place.

His last game was his best game. Maybe thats not a coincidence.

so far he hasnt really pulled up any trees i fully agree, but there could still well be a very good player in there. This time last year bobby naby ox joel and mane were all for the scrap heap iirc.




Taki is 27 next month and has been here nearly two years now. Despite Bobby being out for an extended period, despite a horrendously congested COVID and injury plagued season, he is now getting far less League minutes than previous seasons.

He is getting further away from the League team not closer.

He has done really well in the EFL cup but let's be clear here that is a tournament in which he usually comes up against players who also aren't playing regularly for their first team either. Even Preston rested a whole host of players.

I think what really puts the competition into perspective is Origi. Divock has scored 11 goals in 15 games in the competition better than a goal every 1.5 games. Taki should be looking good at this level, however he has to do much much more to be knocking on the door for League games.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3005 on: December 24, 2021, 09:30:01 pm »
Excellent riposte PiM  but be prepared for the goalposts to be moved again. Our squad shits all over that United one with bells on. They'd be 3rd ish but out of the running for top spot. It's a credit to the boss his development of our squad over the years without the bottomless pit City and Chelsea have financially. A fucking miracle of modern science. This squad of ours would run through brick walls for each other and the boss. Taki has gone up a level this season. If you can't see that, nice swan, see you later, alligator.

That simply isn't true though Bobby.

An example 08/09.

United had the likes of Ronaldo, Rooney, Berbatov, Tevez and Giggs as attacking options. Park still started 21 League games.

Taki is a million miles from getting anywhere near that level of games.
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Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3006 on: December 24, 2021, 09:47:04 pm »
That simply isn't true though Bobby.

An example 08/09.

United had the likes of Ronaldo, Rooney, Berbatov, Tevez and Giggs as attacking options. Park still started 21 League games.

Taki is a million miles from getting anywhere near that level of games.

Their squad did not have the depth ours has, Al. Wes Brown, O'Shea, Park was alright but fuck me Fletcher? In what Universe do they get anywhere near our squad, mate.? Berbatov, he's about Divock for us. Look, pal, I've read the thread, you've had it in for Taki for God knows what reason. Fucking hell, PiM has picked holes in your arguments time after time. My tu'pennorth, if Taki is getting further away from playing PL, of course with AFCON, he will be playing and signs are really good for him to come in and pick up the mantle...but if he is that is a reflection of the squad getting stronger each season, surely, rather than him regressing. The eye test tells me he's really coming on now and I have every confidence in him stepping in and doing the business in January. What else can we do, Al.? Support the lad, his best is yet to come, have a little fucking faith in the kid. Shocking the way you ridicule him. He's an important member of the squad, no more no less. Jurgen is readying him for what's to come and I hope to fuck he delivers. Don't you? Or do you want him to fail? Merry Christmas, pal  :D
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3007 on: December 24, 2021, 10:01:54 pm »
Their squad did not have the depth ours has, Al. Wes Brown, O'Shea, Park was alright but fuck me Fletcher? In what Universe do they get anywhere near our squad, mate.? Berbatov, he's about Divock for us. Look, pal, I've read the thread, you've had it in for Taki for God knows what reason. Fucking hell, PiM has picked holes in your arguments time after time. My tu'pennorth, if Taki is getting further away from playing PL, of course with AFCON, he will be playing and signs are really good for him to come in and pick up the mantle...but if he is that is a reflection of the squad getting stronger each season, surely, rather than him regressing. The eye test tells me he's really coming on now and I have every confidence in him stepping in and doing the business in January. What else can we do, Al.? Support the lad, his best is yet to come, have a little fucking faith in the kid. Shocking the way you ridicule him. He's an important member of the squad, no more no less. Jurgen is readying him for what's to come and I hope to fuck he delivers. Don't you? Or do you want him to fail? Merry Christmas, pal  :D

Berbatov scored 48 League goals in 108 games for United that isn't Origi level. That is Jota-Mane level.
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Offline vivabobbygraham

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3008 on: December 24, 2021, 10:07:54 pm »
Berbatov scored 48 League goals in 108 games for United that isn't Origi level. That is Jota-Mane level.

I'd have scored more than that with that team in that league. Divock would have scored at least 60. We're talking Divock mate, he would have shined his light. Don't you fucking dare start on him... :P
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3009 on: December 24, 2021, 10:41:29 pm »
I'd have scored more than that with that team in that league. Divock would have scored at least 60. We're talking Divock mate, he would have shined his light. Don't you fucking dare start on him... :P

You might have struggled to score 48 goals in 78 International appearances though Bobby.  ;D
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3010 on: December 24, 2021, 11:17:11 pm »
You might have struggled to score 48 goals in 78 International appearances though Bobby.  ;D

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Offline Hidegkuti

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3011 on: December 25, 2021, 02:06:32 am »
I’m not sure whether people are just being facetious here because they feel that they should be disagreeing with AI…

All he seems to be saying is that while Taki is a very good technical footballer, he doesn’t fit the profile of any of the positions in Kloppo’s current set up - and that if we shoehorn him into the team then given his current skillet maybe the midfield fits better - is that really controversial…?

Also I don’t understand this squad player argument at all - I’m not sure anyone is arguing we should have players of the same quality as squad players - the argument is simply that is it not logical that if we have a 6th choice forward then we should have one that at least resembles the skillset of those he is replacing (if not the quality) so you can still play the same basic system…?

Anyway - more important Merry Xmas - have an awesome day  :D

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3012 on: December 25, 2021, 11:46:38 am »
Everyones talks about Klopps patientce, but what about Minaminos? Were assuming that Minamino himself is satisfied with this role, but Im not so sure. He might develop and get more minutes,  but it would take a miracle for him to become a starter. As cool as it is to be around in one of the best squads in the world, most players get sick of playing so little.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3013 on: December 25, 2021, 01:00:02 pm »
Everyones talks about Klopps patientce, but what about Minaminos? Were assuming that Minamino himself is satisfied with this role, but Im not so sure. He might develop and get more minutes,  but it would take a miracle for him to become a starter. As cool as it is to be around in one of the best squads in the world, most players get sick of playing so little.

What exactly is your concern here - that he will demand a transfer?

I hate to say this - but that’s wouldn’t hurt us too much.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3014 on: December 25, 2021, 01:29:17 pm »
Some finish that, let alone in the 95th minute of a cup tie you're going out of.

Shame he didn't follow it up with the clinching penalty, but who gives a shit really.

Showing, to me at least, that he's more then worth his spot in the squad.

He's going to score the winner in the final i can feel it

and when he scores he's going to take his shirt off to reveal a t-shirt on underneath with "this is  for AL 666"

Offline Jake

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3015 on: December 26, 2021, 09:44:56 am »
I’m not sure whether people are just being facetious here because they feel that they should be disagreeing with AI…

That is exactly what is happening.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3016 on: December 27, 2021, 11:08:10 am »
That is exactly what is happening.

From my side, I just can’t believe how one person is so desperate for an argument that he’s created about 5 pages about a squad player who just played a massive part on getting the team to a semi final  ;D

But he knows what he’s doing, and he enjoys it, as do those on the other side of the argument I suppose.  All good no?  Although slightly boring for the rest of us maybe, but it’s easy to avoid a thread for a few days until he runs out of steam (till the next time).

Like I said before, Al can start arguments in empty rooms, it’s a hell of a talent.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3017 on: December 27, 2021, 12:01:52 pm »
From my side, I just can’t believe how one person is so desperate for an argument that he’s created about 5 pages about a squad player who just played a massive part on getting the team to a semi final  ;D

But he knows what he’s doing, and he enjoys it, as do those on the other side of the argument I suppose.  All good no?  Although slightly boring for the rest of us maybe, but it’s easy to avoid a thread for a few days until he runs out of steam (till the next time).

Like I said before, Al can start arguments in empty rooms, it’s a hell of a talent.

No the mistake I made was trying to have a rational debate about a player's attributes and weaknesses in a player thread. Should have just realised they are nothing but a popularity contest on RAWK. You make a point about how a player isn't really suited to our system and that means you hate the player. It is bizarre.

This is a perfect example of the popularity nonsense.

He's going to score the winner in the final i can feel it

and when he scores he's going to take his shirt off to reveal a t-shirt on underneath with "this is  for AL 666"

Why would any rational Liverpool fan want Taki involved in a Cup Final against a likely full strength Chelsea or Spurs side. The only way it is going to happen is if we have a horrendous injury crisis. Is that what people really want.

This all kicked off on the 4th of September when I suggested that Taki getting injured for Japan wasn't a great loss because he was miles away from the starting 11 and probably wouldn't be starting any League games unless we had an injury crisis. Guess what I was right and the posters telling us that Taki was on the cusp of a breakthrough were wrong.

It is the same sentiment that had people suggesting that the likes of Virgil and Matip would have to prove they were better than Nat Phillips.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3018 on: December 27, 2021, 12:11:51 pm »
No the mistake I made was trying to have a rational debate about a player's attributes and weaknesses in a player thread. Should have just realised they are nothing but a popularity contest on RAWK. You make a point about how a player isn't really suited to our system and that means you hate the player. It is bizarre.

This is a perfect example of the popularity nonsense.

Why would any rational Liverpool fan want Taki involved in a Cup Final against a likely full strength Chelsea or Spurs side. The only way it is going to happen is if we have a horrendous injury crisis. Is that what people really want.

This all kicked off on the 4th of September when I suggested that Taki getting injured for Japan wasn't a great loss because he was miles away from the starting 11 and probably wouldn't be starting any League games unless we had an injury crisis. Guess what I was right and the posters telling us that Taki was on the cusp of a breakthrough were wrong.

It is the same sentiment that had people suggesting that the likes of Virgil and Matip would have to prove they were better than Nat Phillips.

If the bold was what had actually happened, you might be onto something there, kinda forgot the parts where you come into his thread to slate him every time he plays though, pretty big thing to leave out and paints a very different picture. Amazing how numerous posters can see and highlight the same pattern in your posting.

Funnily enough a good few stated Shaqiri wasn't really suited to our system, dont recall anyone being told they just dont like him or have an agenda, the content of the posts is the important part, you don't just have your say about him and feeling he isn't best suited to us and leave it there, you persist saying the same thing over and over and chuck in a backhanded compliment every so often while lambasting him and downplaying any positives in his performances.

People aren't saying you dislike him for no reason

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3019 on: December 27, 2021, 02:29:45 pm »
Look it is very simple Taki is a versatile player who can play in a number of roles BOTH in attack and in midfield. The point is that for me, he doesn't have the explosiveness to play either of the wide positions in the front three. He has been tried there it didn't work out. For me, he doesn't have the strength to play as a 9 or false 9. He has been tried there and it didn't work out.

For me, he doesn't have the defensive discipline to play as an 8. He has been tried there it didn't work.

So that leaves his best position in our system for me as a CAM, a hybrid 8/10 in the Lallana mould.

My posts have been absolutely consistent. Yet you keep bringing up the shifting the goalposts bollocks.

Your right Al, at least on matching the players in front of him for wide forward, False 9 we haven’t seen enough  yet but he doesn’t look like a Firmino, midfield probably right on very limited evidence, I do think though he covers wide forward, false 9, and 8 better than most in the squad which is very handy. Would you say, buy a better specialist wide forward, false 9 and 8 to replace Taki as the solution?. If so then maybe it’s a discussion about prioritising resource allocation, particularly financial. Personally, I’ve been impressed with him, I did bite my nails when he stepped up to take the pen against Leicester, but he looks really sharp, starting pre season and I think he is a great asset.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3020 on: December 27, 2021, 02:43:31 pm »
Your right Al, at least on matching the players in front of him for wide forward, False 9 we haven’t seen enough  yet but he doesn’t look like a Firmino, midfield probably right on very limited evidence, I do think though he covers wide forward, false 9, and 8 better than most in the squad which is very handy. Would you say, buy a better specialist wide forward, false 9 and 8 to replace Taki as the solution?. If so then maybe it’s a discussion about prioritising resource allocation, particularly financial. Personally, I’ve been impressed with him, I did bite my nails when he stepped up to take the pen against Leicester, but he looks really sharp, starting pre season and I think he is a great asset.

Klopp likes players who can play right across the front three. We have four exceptional players in Mo, Bobby, Jota and Mane. We then have Origi who can play all three positions without changing the system but at a lower level.

My expectation would be that we will move both Origi and Minamino on and look to bring in another player who can play the front three positions at a higher level than our current backup players. Ideally, we would go for a young player with a ceiling that gives him the potential to eventually replace one of Mo, Bobby or Sadio. Whether that is a transfer or the promotion of someone like Kaide Gordon, Musialowski or one of the other young attacking talents we have or an incoming transfer.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3021 on: December 27, 2021, 03:07:11 pm »
I’m so glad we’ve got people to tell Klopp, who bought Minamino, what he looks for in a forward player.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3022 on: December 27, 2021, 04:34:25 pm »
I’m so glad we’ve got people to tell Klopp, who bought Minamino, what he looks for in a forward player.

That's the important part. We've got someone already decided on Klopp's system even more than Klopp has and the roles he needs, without realizing that Klopp is as adaptable a manager you could get. Yes, he has his own principles of the game like High Line, Strict Offside Trap, Counter-pressing, Compressing the space etc., but it's not as if Klopp has ever said, each and every role in my team is definitive. If that is the case, why would he even have Morton as one of the backup options as No. 6 for Fabinho. Forget quality, Morton's style of play is different. He is less physical, he wins much lesser duels, he is nowhere near Fabinho's height, doesn't nip balls or read danger like Fabinho, but he offers something different on the ball at times and is seen as a valid option by Klopp. Does this person with certain specific agenda, talking in a repeated educative/patronizing manner and conclusively deciding what Klopp is looking for in each player want Morton to be gotten rid of as well and thinks/decides for everybody that Klopp doesn't like him?

In fact, each of our No. 6 options are different in their own ways. Fabinho, Hendo, Thiago, Morton - they are all different in the way they interpret the No. 6 position, some can do it better, some are not as good, but can probably play a different position better. The fact of the matter is that they are all solid options overall and give us the depth we need. These are the kind of options that we have in other positions too, with players of different skillsets, each offering different possibilities and their own interpretations. So, what if Minamino is different from Mane and Salah? This person credits Jota for making an impact from the bench and then completely ignores that it was Minamino's brilliant through ball that led to Jota's goal, which he created from an attacking role that he apparently cannot play.

If Klopp was that rigid, why did he rip apart all that he did in Dortmund to make a completely different formation and roles at Liverpool? Dortmund had two Central/Defensive Midfielders, two FBs who didn't venture as much as our FBs do, one Playmaker, two more conventional wingers and one conventional Striker. He never played False Nine regularly at Dortmund, yet his initial game-plan here involved converting Firmino into a False Nine and then revolving the rest of our midfield/attack around him. We got a hybrid winger/support striker in Mane and molded Salah into a goalscorer, but who knows what the succession plan could be (Not saying Minamino is/is not part of it btw, but in a general note)? Who knows if we would get our primary Goalscorer as a right winger next time when Salah leaves? Who really knows? How many right wingers are even present in football currently who can score like Salah?

Maybe we'll adapt to different roles in the future then? How is that possibility completely ignored by that person solely aiming to take digs at certain players and is even getting a few others to buy into that notion that all roles are definitive? The whole thing is bizarre. Move on Origi's and Miniamino's all you want. But there will definitely be players taking their roles of being 4th, 5th or 6th choices in future as well. You cannot have 25 first/second choice players in a squad without endless funds. It's not possible and it's not something that Klopp has expected us to do.

When others question this kind of an unrealistic expectation, this person comes along with stupid questions like, "Do you even watch us"? Yeah, people who disagree with him don't watch us, that's why they are so invested in LFC, that they spend so much time on the forum, without even watching games. These pointless expectations are so far out of reality that they seem to come from lack of self awareness and inflated sense of self importance. Why would one push such a simple opinion on a player to these limits?

Long gone are the days when we had no proper Left Back - Riise who'd rather be a Left Winger, or Aurelio - who was never fit, or Flanagan and Cissokho - both of whom I don't know how they managed to play for us at the level they did, or Enrique - who had some ability, but was lacking in game intelligence?, or Moreno - do I need to expand? We have two good ones now. Gone are the days when we had the likes of Degen, Kyrgiakos, N'Gog, El Zhar, Dossena, Kelly, Voronin, Poulsen, Jovanovic, Cole, Bogdan, Coates, Downing, Adam, Ibe, Borini, Wisdom, Moses, Lambert, Balotelli etc. being our back-up options. We had some dreadful starting lineups before Rafa as well.

If Klopp likes/prefers certain roles, it doesn't mean he will completely not use/appreciate other roles or dismiss those players like some of them would like to believe. He is doing his best with the resources he has (currently everyone except Hendo, Bobby, Milner and Gomez? are those assembled during his time) and still having us compete at the top end. It's time to appreciate the days we are in and enjoy these moments, otherwise what even is the point? There are people who are called out for being constantly negative on the match-day threads, yet there are some people who permanently reside in certain players' threads spouting negativity in some of our best periods of footballing success in 30 years. It's bizarre. It's as though some will wish failure on certain players even if we suffer as a team. It is one thing to analyze a game to see how we did, what went well and what did not go well and completely another thing to be eager to wish/expect someone's failure based on an agenda.

To those who can appreciate the current moment where we as a club are, with this great manager and staff, with this great set of players, who are all combining to give us as much happiness as they can, I'm extremely happy for you and I'm enjoying every moment of our presence as one of the best teams in the world.

To those who still want to pick holes at any of the current set-up - the ownership who hired the right people, or the manager/staff who have got us here or certain members of the current squad, which is competing at all fronts (we couldn't do that even in our title winning season) with different players contributing towards it,  :wave


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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3023 on: December 27, 2021, 05:55:17 pm »
I made it clear from the start that Klopp would be willing to change his current system. We know that because pretty much every summer since he has been here he has made subtle changing to the way we play. The latest being how we have tweaked the right hand side of the team to get the best out of Trent.

The thing is though those changes are made over the summer so the players can be drilled on the training pitch. The other thing is a player would have to be unbelievable talented for Klopp to make huge changes to how we play.

Taki simply isn't that level of player.

We have a system and attack that works unbelievably well. No matter how you dress it up Taki simply doesn't fit into that system. We are a counter pressing team that likes to win the ball high up the pitch and pounce before a team can regroup.

Salah, Firmino, Jota and Mane are absolutely perfect for that way of playing. Origi can do a job at a push. Sadly Taki for me simply doesn't fit into that style of play.

It isn't his fault, he is talented, hard working and has a great attitude. Not every player can fit into every system or every team. That is unless you are suggesting we rip up what we have got just to accommodate Taki..?
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3024 on: December 27, 2021, 06:52:14 pm »
I made it clear from the start that Klopp would be willing to change his current system. We know that because pretty much every summer since he has been here he has made subtle changing to the way we play. The latest being how we have tweaked the right hand side of the team to get the best out of Trent.

The thing is though those changes are made over the summer so the players can be drilled on the training pitch. The other thing is a player would have to be unbelievable talented for Klopp to make huge changes to how we play.

Taki simply isn't that level of player.

We have a system and attack that works unbelievably well. No matter how you dress it up Taki simply doesn't fit into that system. We are a counter pressing team that likes to win the ball high up the pitch and pounce before a team can regroup.

Salah, Firmino, Jota and Mane are absolutely perfect for that way of playing. Origi can do a job at a push. Sadly Taki for me simply doesn't fit into that style of play.

It isn't his fault, he is talented, hard working and has a great attitude. Not every player can fit into every system or every team. That is unless you are suggesting we rip up what we have got just to accommodate Taki..?

This is all very confusing now, Al. To help me through the malaise you have ceated, give me an example of a player out there who is as good or indeed better than the four we have who are able to play this way. That would really help.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3025 on: December 27, 2021, 06:58:33 pm »
This is all very confusing now, Al. To help me through the malaise you have ceated, give me an example of a player out there who is as good or indeed better than the four we have who are able to play this way. That would really help.

As I said earlier we are unlikely to sign a player as good or better than the front four (barring the unlikely arrival of a certain Frenchman on a free in the summer). My expectation would be that we would look for a younger player who can play across the front three at a higher level than Origi or Taki and who has the potential to replace one of our established front three at a later date.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3026 on: December 27, 2021, 07:04:32 pm »
This is all very confusing now, Al. To help me through the malaise you have ceated, give me an example of a player out there who is as good or indeed better than the four we have who are able to play this way. That would really help.

These higher level of players that we 'need' to replace Origi and Minamino should be happy to warm the bench until they are ready to replace our current front four in the next few years. Why would any youngster with such a high ceiling (who can replace our starting attackers, as great as they are) want to warm the bench at Liverpool at this point of time? Even in FM, players get unhappy in these scenarios. Maybe, Al plays a lot of FIFA career mode and wants to replicate that for our squad, hence the unrealistic expectations of what Klopp should do next with his squad.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 07:06:52 pm by PoetryInMotion »

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3027 on: December 27, 2021, 08:11:46 pm »
These higher level of players that we 'need' to replace Origi and Minamino should be happy to warm the bench until they are ready to replace our current front four in the next few years. Why would any youngster with such a high ceiling (who can replace our starting attackers, as great as they are) want to warm the bench at Liverpool at this point of time? Even in FM, players get unhappy in these scenarios. Maybe, Al plays a lot of FIFA career mode and wants to replicate that for our squad, hence the unrealistic expectations of what Klopp should do next with his squad.

Why wouldn't a young player with a high ceiling want to join Liverpool. We are one of the biggest clubs in the world and have a brilliant coach who is renowned for giving young players a chance.

Harvey Elliott and Kaide Gordon are two young players with very high ceilings who have already joined us with the aforementioned Elliot starting games ahead of Taki at the start of the season.

What we need is an attacking Konate. Then again why would a player with that kind of ceiling join Liverpool and mainly sit on the bench.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3028 on: December 27, 2021, 08:41:44 pm »
Shame on you for wanting better players.


Not that I think Taki is shit,he's just a bit below what we need during things like AFCON.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3029 on: December 27, 2021, 08:58:35 pm »
Shame on you for wanting better players.


Not that I think Taki is shit,he's just a bit below what we need during things like AFCON.
I agree, there's nothing wrong with wanting better players. We all want better players. Even those of us who defend our current players unceasingly would like better players if it's possible.

Doesn't mean we should be shitting on the players who are here in the meantime, though. Or even Al-splaining them constantly, repeatedly, tediously, trulily, madlily, deeplily...

My view, which some obviously don't share, is that not every passing whinge has to be expressed. Sometimes it's cooler to keep your counsel, esp. when the payer has worked his socks off, scored and assisted. But maybe that's just me.

We now return you to your scheduled programme of 48 pages of Al-splaining
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3030 on: December 27, 2021, 09:27:00 pm »
Shame on you for wanting better players.


Not that I think Taki is shit,he's just a bit below what we need during things like AFCON.

Everyone wants better players. Every club wants better players. I want Yashin in goal. I want a CB pairing of Baresi and Beckenbauer. I want Facchetti at LB and and Carlos Alberto at RB. I want a CM pairing of Rijkaard and Matthaus. I want Garrincha on the right wing and Best on the Left with Cruyff in the middle behind Pele. And I want 14 other players of similar ability in the squad. All at their respective peaks. Maybe a few more players like a 19 year old Messi, 19 year old Maldini, and a few more youth players of that ilk, coming through the ranks, some of whom can be sent on loan to be developed.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3031 on: December 27, 2021, 09:30:38 pm »
I agree, there's nothing wrong with wanting better players. We all want better players. Even those of us who defend our current players unceasingly would like better players if it's possible.

Doesn't mean we should be shitting on the players who are here in the meantime, though. Or even Al-splaining them constantly, repeatedly, tediously, trulily, madlily, deeplily...

My view, which some obviously don't share, is that not every passing whinge has to be expressed. Sometimes it's cooler to keep your counsel, esp. when the payer has worked his socks off, scored and assisted. But maybe that's just me.

We now return you to your scheduled programme of 48 pages of Al-splaining

It's not just you. Some take the high road, some just want more attention.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3032 on: December 27, 2021, 09:43:25 pm »
Everyone wants better players. Every club wants better players. I want Yashin in goal. I want a CB pairing of Baresi and Beckenbauer. I want Facchetti at LB and and Carlos Alberto at RB. I want a CM pairing of Rijkaard and Matthaus. I want Garrincha on the right wing and Best on the Left with Cruyff in the middle behind Pele. And I want 14 other players of similar ability in the squad. All at their respective peaks. Maybe a few more players like a 19 year old Messi, 19 year old Maldini, and a few more youth players of that ilk, coming through the ranks, some of whom can be sent on loan to be developed.


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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3033 on: December 27, 2021, 09:47:28 pm »
Awful thread.

Just seems like some have already judged Taki & won't give him credit even as he improves.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3034 on: December 27, 2021, 09:50:15 pm »

You want to get into the 21st century mate.

Yeah, way to miss the point!

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3035 on: December 27, 2021, 10:22:43 pm »
Awful thread.

Just seems like some have already judged Taki & won't give him credit even as he improves.

It is not as if it is a snap judgement. Taki has been here two years now and is 27 in a few weeks time. His so called improvement has come about in the EFL Cup. A competition we have had a great run in with Taki central to that.

The thing is the EFL Cup is a competition in which teams rotate and play their squad players. Taki should be looking good at that level.

Origi is a good example. He has scored 11 in 15 in the League Cup. That is what you expect when you are playing against lower League sides and teams who rotate for the EFL Cup.

In terms of getting games in the League Taki's minutes have dropped off massively.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3036 on: December 27, 2021, 11:04:31 pm »
Taki is a good player you won’t find many better 6th choice attackers, can cover a couple positions, good technique works hard and most importantly puts the ball in the back of the net. Doesn’t have to be the prototype of our front three at all, in fact one would argue the individualism and I dare say randomness he and Origi brings us very much needed. United under Fergie were a team in their pomp who seemed to have an assortment of players who weren’t similar but would contribute in their own unique way and Minamino fits that mode for us.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3037 on: December 27, 2021, 11:04:35 pm »
Yeah, way to miss the point!

Was the point.
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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3038 on: December 27, 2021, 11:34:44 pm »
whew....I just had some thin mint oreos....I'm screwed. The entire sleeve will be gone soon.

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Re: Takumi Minamino
« Reply #3039 on: December 27, 2021, 11:45:09 pm »
It is not as if it is a snap judgement. Taki has been here two years now and is 27 in a few weeks time. His so called improvement has come about in the EFL Cup. A competition we have had a great run in with Taki central to that.

The thing is the EFL Cup is a competition in which teams rotate and play their squad players. Taki should be looking good at that level.

Origi is a good example. He has scored 11 in 15 in the League Cup. That is what you expect when you are playing against lower League sides and teams who rotate for the EFL Cup.

In terms of getting games in the League Taki's minutes have dropped off massively.
I don't care if it's the EFL cup. I was buzzing as he scored the equaliser.

Looking to belittle the player to suit your opinion / agenda is predictable.

He's a low cost signing that's part of this squad. He's not going to be a Jota or Bobby but doesn't mean he can't play some part in our season as the cup has shown.