Author Topic: Harvey Elliott (Harvey Daniel James Elliott)  (Read 598046 times)

Offline Jake

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #280 on: August 1, 2019, 10:10:54 pm »
15/16 year old kid says something offensive. Ok. Is he sorry? Seems so. Let's move on to his hat trick Vs Abu Dhabi c*nts on Sunday
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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #281 on: August 1, 2019, 10:11:54 pm »
I'm not sure if I'd take Jason McAteer's opinions on decision-making with anything other than a pinch of salt.


This is, after all, the bloke who saw Jimmy White and shouted "One-Hundred-and-Eight-Teeeeeeeeee!"

;D

Jason "Trigger" McAteer?

Offline reddragon

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #282 on: August 1, 2019, 10:16:16 pm »
Im disabled,  if a disabled person has the capability to find and watch  that video, they will undertand it.  However yes you are correct in hindsight, not all disabled people would.  I dont think thats the reason it goes unchecked though. Slightly off topic.
interesting - why do you think it goes unchecked?


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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #283 on: August 1, 2019, 10:33:41 pm »
yeah loads of teenagers when I was one liberally used words like the one he used/homophobic ones pretty liberally as insults, teenagers aren’t exactly known for being worldly and knowing the real depth of meaning and connotations behind things (I mean up until fairly recently ladyboy jokes weren’t seen as being particularly offensive), as long as he learns its ok
I think he knew exactly what the word meant as he impersonates Harry Kane with an exaggerated slow speech.  That being said, this isn't about throwing someone under the bus, it's about taking the opportunity to promote a greater understanding of equality and diversity.  He's going to be in the media eye much more now and with that comes a responsibility to act as a positive role model.  I'm sure the club will already have spoken to him in depth about why this video is an issue, they'll give him advice about how to avoid these pitfalls and give him opportunities in the future to meet with fans with related disabilities.  With all those things, we move on.  I'd only take exception if this mistake is repeated in the future, in which case it would be indefensible.

As reddragon has eluded to... Offence isn't determined by the recipient or the offender.  It's determined by anyone who hears the insult, and with the context of that word as a derogatory term for a particular group in society, I can completely understand why it is so offensive to a great number of people (not just those with connections to people with learning differences).

I have to say though, I hope the person who distributed the video has consequences too.  Plus, I'd be interested what Fulham's academy and club staff have done to raise awareness of social media related issues and the equality based issues this highlights.  There is a culture in some football circles that doesn't exactly challenge this sort of thing very well.
« Last Edit: August 1, 2019, 10:43:10 pm by Prof »

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #284 on: August 1, 2019, 10:45:08 pm »
interesting - why do you think it goes unchecked?

I dont know.  Generally for every disabled person that doesnt understand and cant respond like your Son, there is someone to take it on.  You in your sons case.  Maybe the disabled community are perceived as being less capable of responding. Just a theory
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline reddragon

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #285 on: August 1, 2019, 11:05:54 pm »
I dont know.  Generally for every disabled person that doesnt understand and cant respond like your Son, there is someone to take it on.  You in your sons case.  Maybe the disabled community are perceived as being less capable of responding. Just a theory
I think most of us don't bother. We all have enough shit to get on with just running our lives!!
This vid has highlighted it for me. The lad has actually committed a potential hate crime and nobody is even batting an eyelid.
 It's all 'he's only 16' and 'we were all wankers at that age' which I do understand and agree with.

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #286 on: August 1, 2019, 11:08:27 pm »
As reddragon has eluded to... Offence isn't determined by the recipient or the offender.  It's determined by anyone who hears the insult, and with the context of that word as a derogatory term for a particular group in society, I can completely understand why it is so offensive to a great number of people (not just those with connections to people with learning differences).
just want to add something to this point, one thing I remember years ago was with the Australian cricket commentators using the word ‘paki’ when they’re playing Pakistan (and it’s not an offensive term in Australia but here it is, there it is more like ‘scot’), is something like that worthy of being brought up as it’s clearly not meant to be offensive, ditto the Alan Hansen ‘coloured players’ comment around the time of the Suarez evra incident which caused a fair bit of moral outrage even though when watching it he clearly wasn’t saying it in an offensive manner (and there are some offended by using the word ‘black’)

Offline MancEunuchian

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #287 on: August 1, 2019, 11:42:03 pm »
Not to beat a dead horse but if it was just him using the term, that'd be one thing.  But his impersonation makes it worse imo.  And I understand when you're 16 you're gonna say stupid shite, just seems odd to praise him for it like @AndyMuller does here.  My cousin has a special needs child so I've seen firsthand how painful this sort of thing can be.  Hopefully, there will be more awareness raised and some good will come out of it.   

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #288 on: August 2, 2019, 07:12:36 am »
Not to beat a dead horse but if it was just him using the term, that'd be one thing.  But his impersonation makes it worse imo.  And I understand when you're 16 you're gonna say stupid shite, just seems odd to praise him for it like @AndyMuller does here.  My cousin has a special needs child so I've seen firsthand how painful this sort of thing can be.  Hopefully, there will be more awareness raised and some good will come out of it.
Exactly!

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #289 on: August 2, 2019, 07:23:43 am »
just want to add something to this point, one thing I remember years ago was with the Australian cricket commentators using the word ‘paki’ when they’re playing Pakistan (and it’s not an offensive term in Australia but here it is, there it is more like ‘scot’), is something like that worthy of being brought up as it’s clearly not meant to be offensive, ditto the Alan Hansen ‘coloured players’ comment around the time of the Suarez evra incident which caused a fair bit of moral outrage even though when watching it he clearly wasn’t saying it in an offensive manner (and there are some offended by using the word ‘black’)
There are words that are generally accepted to use.  Most formalised groups that represent minorities of any type define how they want to be referred to.  It's difficult to take everything into account, and in some situations a level of balance is needed.

Some people with gender identity issues don't like to be called he/him /she/her etc and prefer "they"... But for everyone to go around without using gender based terms isn't going to happen, and as gender based terms aren't used to isolate a group in society, it is not comparable to some of the other words we've mentioned.

Where gender based terms become inappropriate is when they are used as deliberate insults, such as a boy being referred to as "such a girl" etc

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #290 on: August 2, 2019, 08:07:08 am »
I think most of us don't bother. We all have enough shit to get on with just running our lives!!
This vid has highlighted it for me. The lad has actually committed a potential hate crime and nobody is even batting an eyelid.
 It's all 'he's only 16' and 'we were all wankers at that age' which I do understand and agree with.

It was front page news on the BBC. Hardly nobody batting an eyelid. He's a child that said something daft. He'll get educated and do a bit of community work. We move on.
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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #291 on: August 2, 2019, 08:12:15 am »
It was front page news on the BBC. Hardly nobody batting an eyelid. He's a child that said something daft. He'll get educated and do a bit of community work. We move on.
To be fair... The articles I've read have focused on the fact he took the piss out of Harry Kane, not the fact he used that term while imitating someone with learning differences.

I totally agree with what you say about Harvey though.  It's done, the club will educate him and use it to educate other players, and we move on.  I hope to see him have a brilliant career with us and become a great role model for other young people.

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #292 on: August 2, 2019, 09:57:10 am »
no problem with this at all, Kane is a prick and talks like a tory twat.

Couldn't careless, was doing much worse at 16 back in the day.

Move on, he is going to be a very good player for us.

Offline Rob17

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #293 on: August 2, 2019, 10:46:34 am »
just want to add something to this point, one thing I remember years ago was with the Australian cricket commentators using the word ‘paki’ when they’re playing Pakistan (and it’s not an offensive term in Australia but here it is, there it is more like ‘scot’), is something like that worthy of being brought up as it’s clearly not meant to be offensive, ditto the Alan Hansen ‘coloured players’ comment around the time of the Suarez evra incident which caused a fair bit of moral outrage even though when watching it he clearly wasn’t saying it in an offensive manner (and there are some offended by using the word ‘black’)

I have an American mate who was visiting us a while ago and was absolutely shocked when the commentator referred to Javier Hernandez as the little Mexican, and he said no way would anyone be able to say that in the states as its highly offensive.

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #294 on: August 2, 2019, 10:50:34 am »
Very excited about this kid. He seems to have "it".

Reminds me a bit of the Coutinhos and David Silva's of this world. Obviously he has a long, long way to go to reach their level, but he does look that sort of lock-picking player.

If you did not know how old the kids we have played in pre-season were and were asked to guess which one was 16, I don't think many would assume it were him based on the way he plays the game.
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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #295 on: August 2, 2019, 11:00:03 am »
To be fair... The articles I've read have focused on the fact he took the piss out of Harry Kane, not the fact he used that term while imitating someone with learning differences.


Was he not doing a caricature of Kane?
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Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #296 on: August 2, 2019, 11:03:30 am »
Was he not doing a caricature of Kane?

I don't think harry kane is a person that I find irritating though? I mean technically my daughter is a person that I find irritating if we are going down that route, so you can see the issue.

And rawk has auto corrected the word so obviously the language is an issue.

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #297 on: August 2, 2019, 12:48:32 pm »
15/16 year old kid says something offensive. Ok. Is he sorry? Seems so. Let's move on to his hat trick Vs Abu Dhabi c*nts on Sunday

Yeah. Pseudo-moralists expecting a 15 year old kid to have conversation about philosophy with his mates.
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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #298 on: August 2, 2019, 03:45:46 pm »
Was he not doing a caricature of Kane?
Yes. I'm sure he was. But add that word in and I can see the offence it causes.  Like I say it's not about blaming the kid, it's about educating him and others that it's not necessary to use that word.  If he'd said "I'm Harry Kane and I'm thick", no problem.  He's been through a professional club's academy and I maintain he's either been let down with his education (which I think is the case) or he's ignored it and this needs to be the real lesson.

Anyway, I've said my piece and not trying to make too much of it, just wanted to support some of the other voices in here who have more reason to be offended than I am.

Let's hope he scores his first goal for us soon and the headlines will be for the right reason.

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #299 on: August 2, 2019, 04:26:19 pm »
no problem with this at all, Kane is a prick and talks like a tory twat.

Couldn't careless, was doing much worse at 16 back in the day.

Move on, he is going to be a very good player for us.

Absolutely.  Doing a derogatory impression of a minority, marginalised group is sound as fuck.
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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #300 on: August 2, 2019, 04:29:30 pm »
Has anyone cracked the in 14 years he will be 30 so get rid joke yet?

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #301 on: August 2, 2019, 04:32:40 pm »

To be fair... The articles I've read have focused on the fact he took the piss out of Harry Kane, not the fact he used that term while imitating someone with learning differences.

Noticed that myself. Looking at the apology, its an open apology to anyone who may have took offence. So fair play to whoever wrote that apology.
However the media reporting seems to think it worse for Kane then the disabled community and I think that completely misses the point,

Was he not doing a caricature of Kane?

Have you seen the video mate.  Kane wont be remotely arsed.  The offence taken will be by and on behalf of the disabled community. 
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #302 on: August 2, 2019, 04:36:39 pm »
Yeah. Pseudo-moralists expecting a 15 year old kid to have conversation about philosophy with his mates.

So if you think somethings wrong you are a Pseudo-moralists?  Ever thought that maybe what he did was just wrong. 
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #303 on: August 2, 2019, 04:48:08 pm »
So if you think somethings wrong you are a Pseudo-moralists?  Ever thought that maybe what he did was just wrong.
Nobodys saying what he did was right though.
What people are saying was he's 16 and still a bit of a dick.
He's apologised; what more do you want?
If your moral compass is Piers Moron then I ask you to think whether someone who oversaw illegal phone hacking and published fake pictures depicting War Crimes is an appropriate person to look up to. In fact, I'd suggest you're a bit of a c*nt.

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #304 on: August 2, 2019, 04:51:49 pm »

He's apologised; what more do you want?

For Rick to not label those discussing it as Pseudo-moralists. 
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Tesco tearaway

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #305 on: August 2, 2019, 05:02:10 pm »
For Rick to not label those discussing it as Pseudo-moralists.
That's up to Rick; you could try asking him  :wave
If your moral compass is Piers Moron then I ask you to think whether someone who oversaw illegal phone hacking and published fake pictures depicting War Crimes is an appropriate person to look up to. In fact, I'd suggest you're a bit of a c*nt.

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #306 on: August 2, 2019, 05:12:52 pm »
That's up to Rick; you could try asking him  :wave

Thanks for your input and mediation on this. its been invaluable. 
Feel free to geg in anytime  :wave
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #307 on: August 2, 2019, 08:46:57 pm »
Ain't I glad I have no Twitter, Instagram or Facebook... It ain't too bad to have missed the whole saga, which ain't over yet.

I'll just wait for this thread to go back to football...
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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #308 on: August 2, 2019, 10:15:37 pm »
I’ve trademarked “Welcome Harvey”. Lawyers will be in touch.
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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #309 on: August 2, 2019, 11:23:09 pm »
I’ve trademarked “Welcome Harvey”. Lawyers will be in touch.

Someone put a comma in the title, quick!
I have no idea what I’m taking about

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #310 on: August 2, 2019, 11:36:06 pm »
I’ve trademarked “Welcome Harvey”. Lawyers will be in touch.

I've trademarked 'Joey Deacon' - every one of you schoolkids from the 70's and 80's needs to think on, or you can expect a very stern 'cease and desist' letter from my lawyers.

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #311 on: August 2, 2019, 11:58:58 pm »
I've trademarked 'Joey Deacon' - every one of you schoolkids from the 70's and 80's needs to think on, or you can expect a very stern 'cease and desist' letter from my lawyers.
Nice one... 'Doffs hat'
If your moral compass is Piers Moron then I ask you to think whether someone who oversaw illegal phone hacking and published fake pictures depicting War Crimes is an appropriate person to look up to. In fact, I'd suggest you're a bit of a c*nt.

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #312 on: September 26, 2019, 12:18:37 am »
Thought he was outstanding tonight. Very unlucky not to score, very creative and not afraid to help out at the back. Keep it up lad and I'm sure we'll be seeing a lot more of you.
Why was my post deleted?

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #313 on: September 26, 2019, 12:23:40 am »
Touch of class.  16 years old,shamoan.

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #314 on: September 26, 2019, 12:32:39 am »
He’s got 7 months to be our youngest scorer - I think that’s a record he’ll end up breaking. Looked class tonight.

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #315 on: September 26, 2019, 01:37:55 am »

He's actually good.

Weren't Barcelona looking at him before we got him?
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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #316 on: September 26, 2019, 05:11:06 am »
Harvey Elliot making his League Cup debut and almost scoring at 16 years old.

This should be a salutary lesson to Bobby Duncan at 18 years old and only at the start of his second season at Liverpool who would have been playing in that match had he exercised reasonable patience. Instead thanks to him forcing a move, he is currently playing in Fiorentina's U-19 team (despite the fact that he was promoted to Liverpool's U-23 team this season)...
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 05:12:42 am by ThePoolMan »

Offline Redcap

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #317 on: September 26, 2019, 05:13:08 am »
He’s got 7 months to be our youngest scorer - I think that’s a record he’ll end up breaking. Looked class tonight.

Would rather that he ends up our oldest goalscorer to be honest. Youngest goalscorers mean very little.

But yes, he looks tremendous.

If we could combine his game intelligence and technique with the power of a Jordon Ibe he would be unstoppable already.

As it is, he probably needs a little more strength and speed.

Offline Knight

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #318 on: September 26, 2019, 06:24:51 am »
How is he only 16? Outshone every other liverpool player on the pitch in a creative, goal threat sense. Absolutely outstanding. Re strength and speed, he looks like he'll end up as an 8 to me, although he's got plenty of time for physical development.

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #319 on: September 26, 2019, 07:18:11 am »
How is he only 16? Outshone every other liverpool player on the pitch in a creative, goal threat sense. Absolutely outstanding. Re strength and speed, he looks like he'll end up as an 8 to me, although he's got plenty of time for physical development.
He did mate, just seemed to have that look about him, like something was going to happen every time he was on the ball.

Got the makings of a real shit hot player this kid, needs to be handled with care, very slowly brought in over the next few years.