Author Topic: The Klopp Template  (Read 1077216 times)

Offline lionel_messias

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5080 on: July 6, 2021, 09:30:48 am »
Is there usually a season review thread? 

Yeah no thanks! Or just put a picture of a car crash, then explain how we turned it around in the last 10 games or so.

With fans back and Virgil too, Liverpool on paper are the best in the league again, but too dependent on luck with fitness, no answer yet to AFCON, and a bit thin in midfield - when injury-prone-ness is taken into account.
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Offline royhendo

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5081 on: July 6, 2021, 10:38:53 am »
Midfield options though, before we add anyone:
- Fabinho
- Henderson
- Milner
- Thiago
- Keita
- Oxlade Chamberlain
- Jones

How resilient has our midfield been other than Wijnaldum? Because what we're saying in practical terms is that we're one body short at worst, no?
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5082 on: July 6, 2021, 11:15:17 am »
Midfield options though, before we add anyone:
- Fabinho
- Henderson
- Milner
- Thiago
- Keita
- Oxlade Chamberlain
- Jones

How resilient has our midfield been other than Wijnaldum? Because what we're saying in practical terms is that we're one body short at worst, no?

We have enough if it were not for the injuries to Keita and Oxlade-Chamberlain. I would take a fit Keita over any midfield signing.

Offline kavah

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5083 on: July 6, 2021, 11:26:16 am »
It's looking very light in midfield isn't it. A rather enormous Gini shaped block of indefatigable minutes to fill

Are any of them good for 30+ league-games-a-season, maybe Fabinho? The others - you wouldn't bet on it, I know I wouldn't.


Offline lionel_messias

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5084 on: July 6, 2021, 11:57:40 am »
Midfield options though, before we add anyone:
- Fabinho
- Henderson
- Milner
- Thiago
- Keita
- Oxlade Chamberlain
- Jones

How resilient has our midfield been other than Wijnaldum? Because what we're saying in practical terms is that we're one body short at worst, no?

Fabinho [Has had INJURIES]

- Henderson [INJURY PRONE]
- Milner.       [Getting on a bit for central midfield]
- Thiago.      [Tip top, injury last season]
- Keita.         [You must be kidding, his position is treatment table]
- Oxlade Chamberlain.  [Sadly, see directly above]
- Jones                          [Ace but young]

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Offline kavah

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5085 on: July 6, 2021, 12:04:54 pm »
Saw this on the international watch thread (thanks Gray 19 for the updates)

https://twitter.com/dmlynch/status/1412354567564636165?s=20

Norwich away could be
Milner, Naby, Jones

Offline dutchkop

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5086 on: July 6, 2021, 12:12:04 pm »
Fabinho [Has had INJURIES]

- Henderson [INJURY PRONE]
- Milner.       [Getting on a bit for central midfield]
- Thiago.      [Tip top, injury last season]
- Keita.         [You must be kidding, his position is treatment table]
- Oxlade Chamberlain.  [Sadly, see directly above]
- Jones                          [Ace but young]

Maybe our best signing this summer could be someone that keeps our players fitter and less injury prone?
How come all our competitors had less injuries - or is this a poor assumption?
Do we train differently?

Offline Fitzy.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5087 on: July 6, 2021, 12:36:22 pm »
Klopp Template:

Hire-wire act:

Preference for a small squad of great quality; contrasting to a certain degree of ‘squad padding’ that both Houlier and Rafa seemed to engage in. The benefits of such an approach is that there are very few weak links; in addition, day-to-day training isn’t compromised in terms of the expected standards. No bad apples, no filler. The group also becomes tight, with a fantastic team spirit very obvious.

The debit side is that an injury crisis can become very problematic…as we just experienced. However, would squad padding have saved us last season? Possibly, but you then move away from the template, which undermines the longer-term project.

Despite being at Liverpool for almost 6 years, it’s striking how such a significant portion of the fanbase aren’t overly fluent in Klopp’s methods and basic core approach. I know a lot of this is just kids on Twitter making noise about buying superstars, but it’s still interesting that some folk will simply not buy into the process or are even aware of it.




Offline Dim Glas

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5088 on: July 6, 2021, 12:39:16 pm »
Maybe our best signing this summer could be someone that keeps our players fitter and less injury prone?
How come all our competitors had less injuries - or is this a poor assumption?
Do we train differently?

we went through 3 seasons prior to last without too many major issues.

How quickly we forget it seems! Don’t you remember the cry-arsing form other fanbases about our players surely being ‘on something’ cos they didn’t get as many injuries?

We have one of the best trainers around, he suddenly hasn’t stopped being that.

I know there have been changes to the medical department though with at leaset one physio and doctor leaving before last season - if there is something to that, then obviously, we as fans won’t have the slightest clue, but it would surely be something picked up on.

We went through 3 of the most intense seasons ever trying to keep up with and overtake a cheating monstrosity in Manchester City, who pretty much have two first 11’s, and then a pandemic and then seemingly endless internationals. There was always going to be a crash. Of cousre, no one expected one as extreme as last season, so here’s to it not happening again soon.

Offline Fitzy.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5089 on: July 6, 2021, 12:41:38 pm »
Maybe our best signing this summer could be someone that keeps our players fitter and less injury prone?
How come all our competitors had less injuries - or is this a poor assumption?
Do we train differently?

I actually think Liverpool’s injury record was excellent prior to 20/21 season. The common jibe from rival fans in 19/20 was that we never got injuries compared to City.

The fitness and conditioning coaches were heralded as being transformative in their use of analytics to help preserve players to keep them fit.

Offline royhendo

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5090 on: July 6, 2021, 02:51:22 pm »
I think Fitzy's spot on... but it'd be good to check the numbers on starts. 

We went on our two best ever seasons with a midfield of (with starting appearances in all Comps (from Wikipedia)):

84: Wijnaldum (43 + 41)
65: Henderson (29 + 36)
62: Fabinho (30 + 32)
49: Milner (31 + 18)
38: Keita (22 + 16)
25: Oxlade Chamberlain (0 + 25)
14: Lallana (6 + 8)
7: Jones (1 + 6)


Then last season:
45: Wijnaldum
38: Fabinho
25: Henderson
23: Thiago
22: Jones
19: Milner
9: Keita
2: Oxlade Chamberlain
(I've left out the youth players who played in the Carling Cup.)

The big moving vector is Jones, plus we also asked more of Fabinho than in previous seasons (due to him standing in at centre half)

Henderson actually started only 5 fewer than Wijnaldum in the season before last.

Milner is backup.

Ox is about as unlucky as it's possible to be.

Keita - well, we have to hope he heals a bit.
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Offline royhendo

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5091 on: July 6, 2021, 03:28:34 pm »
On Jones, our comparison has to be Trent really, but Trent's starts went as follows.

2016-17 - 5
2017-18 - 30
2018-19 - 38
2019-20 - 43
2020-21 - 43

So we can maybe expect Jones to fill some of the gap - perhaps a significant chunk of the gap.
"Word of the day is 'philodox' (17th century): one who is in love with their own opinion, and who consequently believes that everyone else should share it."  @susie_dent on twitter - https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1419683653844668422

Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5092 on: July 6, 2021, 06:47:12 pm »
I don't think you can look at the amount of players in the squad and the wage bill and say we have a "small group".  There certainly are players Klopp prefers over others for a variety of reasons but it's not a small group.

For me the most interesting takeaway from last year is that for whatever reason trying to play with the handbrake on where Trent or Robbo were more reserved to cover for the CB's really didn't work.  We didn't gain much defensively but were much more blunt offensively with a lot of sterile possession but no penalty area penetration.  Once Klopp starting trusting his CB's again and let the FB's get up the field we started looking much better, at least Trent did.  Hoping Robbo was just in need of a break.

For this upcoming season where I think that matters is I can see a situation where a preferred midfield 3 of Fab, Thiago and Hendo should control most games just due to the extreme amount of passing that will be out there but I think they could be extremely vulnerable in transition to where the solution would be to keep the FB's more reserved.  You then end up with a lot of sterile possession and not much else happening sans a moment of brilliance from the front 3 which is what happened this past season as noted above.  I can't see them getting more than 2000 minutes together though so this probably shouldn't matter a huge amount.

The midfield is a man short though, that's for sure.

Offline Fitzy.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5093 on: July 7, 2021, 05:40:03 am »
I think Fitzy's spot on... but it'd be good to check the numbers on starts. 

We went on our two best ever seasons with a midfield of (with starting appearances in all Comps (from Wikipedia)):

84: Wijnaldum (43 + 41)
65: Henderson (29 + 36)
62: Fabinho (30 + 32)
49: Milner (31 + 18)
38: Keita (22 + 16)
25: Oxlade Chamberlain (0 + 25)
14: Lallana (6 + 8)
7: Jones (1 + 6)


Then last season:
45: Wijnaldum
38: Fabinho
25: Henderson
23: Thiago
22: Jones
19: Milner
9: Keita
2: Oxlade Chamberlain
(I've left out the youth players who played in the Carling Cup.)

The big moving vector is Jones, plus we also asked more of Fabinho than in previous seasons (due to him standing in at centre half)

Henderson actually started only 5 fewer than Wijnaldum in the season before last.

Milner is backup.

Ox is about as unlucky as it's possible to be.

Keita - well, we have to hope he heals a bit.
Thanks for the stats Roy.

Shows how settled things were 2018-2020 - hence the incredible consistency.

Offline royhendo

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5094 on: July 7, 2021, 06:54:10 am »
Not starting didn’t always mean not available for selection either.
"Word of the day is 'philodox' (17th century): one who is in love with their own opinion, and who consequently believes that everyone else should share it."  @susie_dent on twitter - https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1419683653844668422

Offline Fitzy.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5095 on: July 7, 2021, 11:11:39 am »
Not starting didn’t always mean not available for selection either.
Yes - just managing fitness and freshness when required.

Offline oojason

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5096 on: July 7, 2021, 05:05:30 pm »
Is there usually a season review thread? 


Under Klopp; 'Liverpool Audio/Video thread'-wise...


RAWK's 'Audio / Video thread'; 2020/21 Season Review - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg17771235#msg17771235

RAWK's 'Audio / Video thread'; 2019/20 League Title Win Season Review - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg17280340#msg17280340

RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread' 2018/19 Season Review - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16668435#msg16668435

RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread' 2017/18 Season Review (+ CL Final) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16070203#msg16070203

RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread' 2016/17 Season Review - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg15352060#msg15352060

RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread' 2015/16 Season Review - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg14817798#msg14817798


For the 2019 Champions League Final vs Spurs : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16658201#msg16658201 (+ an index of threads)

For 2nd leg vs Barcelona in 2019 CL : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16617450#msg16617450 (+ scroll down for pre & post-match content)

For the 2018 Champions League Final vs Real Madrid : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16066001#msg16066001
.
Some 'Useful Info' for following the football + TV, Streams, Highlights & Replays etc - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769

A mini-index of RAWK's 'Liverpool Audio / Video Thread' content over the years; & more - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769.msg17787576#msg17787576

Offline markmywords

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5097 on: July 7, 2021, 07:33:25 pm »
For all our issues in midfield, I think if we have to priortize 1 position for a transfer, it should be a forward player, (as we might not be able to afford a CM and a FW)

This would help us pull off a 4 - 2 - 3 - 1 as a back up system maybe for 10/15 games perhaps permanently if it works well enough, this will help in a number of ways.

I suspect there are only 3 CM's that klopp truly trusts in our squad and 4 forwards.  A 4-2-3-1 introduces a number 10 and in that position he might be able to entrust keita/shaq/AOC more than currently. Many will say injury is why they don't play more, but Klopp has had matip playing at CB, with gomez and lovren on the bench many times. If a player is good enough Klopp will try them, but I don't think he trusts keita, or AOC defensively, or even jones.

Of course Firmino would the man that could benefit the most from playing as a '10'.  He is a better creator than he is a finisher.  And considering the season's Firmino and Mane had last time around, and their (and salah's) age it would make sense to have jota plus another youngish forward who klopp trusts.  Having Jota, Firmino an and another top forward could be crucial during what has proved to be the toughest months of the season under klopp (jan/feb) when AFCON will be occurring.

Having to pick 2 from hendo, thiago and fab might help extend their careers

Playing 4-2 -3-1 might impact the fb's, but I felt we struggled last yr, from our midfield playing as conservatively as ever AND our Fb's playing as they did.   Having a proper no.10 should aid our front 3 better.  I feel we have better personnel than we did in 2018 when we tried it last, especially if we bring in another FW

Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5098 on: July 7, 2021, 10:49:59 pm »

Under Klopp; 'Liverpool Audio/Video thread'-wise...


RAWK's 'Audio / Video thread'; 2020/21 Season Review - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg17771235#msg17771235

RAWK's 'Audio / Video thread'; 2019/20 League Title Win Season Review - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg17280340#msg17280340

RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread' 2018/19 Season Review - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16668435#msg16668435

RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread' 2017/18 Season Review (+ CL Final) - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16070203#msg16070203

RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread' 2016/17 Season Review - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg15352060#msg15352060

RAWK's 'Audio / Video Thread' 2015/16 Season Review - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg14817798#msg14817798


For the 2019 Champions League Final vs Spurs : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16658201#msg16658201 (+ an index of threads)

For 2nd leg vs Barcelona in 2019 CL : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16617450#msg16617450 (+ scroll down for pre & post-match content)

For the 2018 Champions League Final vs Real Madrid : www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=112969.msg16066001#msg16066001

Was thinking more as in a forum discussion on how the season went but appreciate the links ;)

Offline royhendo

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5099 on: July 13, 2021, 09:54:49 am »
Loads of good Lijnders stuff about eh?

The TAW podcast this week highlighted his interview with Graham Hunter from January - I didn't know he'd done one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ09rDN3YC0
"Word of the day is 'philodox' (17th century): one who is in love with their own opinion, and who consequently believes that everyone else should share it."  @susie_dent on twitter - https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1419683653844668422

Offline BassTunedToRed

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5100 on: July 13, 2021, 05:27:18 pm »
A bit of slightly more in-depth midfield data for 2020/21, if anyone is interested. Includes minutes at centre-back for the appropriate players.

Offline Knight

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5101 on: July 13, 2021, 07:22:57 pm »
4 goals and 5 assists in 1922 minutes, very good Curtis, very good. And compared to the other midfielders he looks like a production monster!!

Offline Bjornar

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5102 on: July 14, 2021, 12:34:14 am »
Despite being at Liverpool for almost 6 years, it’s striking how such a significant portion of the fanbase aren’t overly fluent in Klopp’s methods and basic core approach. I know a lot of this is just kids on Twitter making noise about buying superstars, but it’s still interesting that some folk will simply not buy into the process or are even aware of it.

Good post.

Offline Zeb

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5103 on: July 14, 2021, 07:22:54 am »
On Jones, our comparison has to be Trent really, but Trent's starts went as follows.

2016-17 - 5
2017-18 - 30
2018-19 - 38
2019-20 - 43
2020-21 - 43

So we can maybe expect Jones to fill some of the gap - perhaps a significant chunk of the gap.

Yeah, would make sense to me. Was thinking about it while reading something else and remembered you'd been posting about it. Not sure what to make of the scuttlebutt around Elliott beginning a similar process?

Last season was weird. Sense of jigsaw pieces falling back into place seeing the preseason photos even without the obvious absences. Ongoing process of renewal to what Fitzy says there.
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Offline royhendo

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5104 on: July 14, 2021, 09:08:12 am »
Yeah - they're serious about bringing them through. Gordon, Kellegher... I guess back a bit further Joe Gomez would be an interesting one to track.
"Word of the day is 'philodox' (17th century): one who is in love with their own opinion, and who consequently believes that everyone else should share it."  @susie_dent on twitter - https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1419683653844668422

Offline royhendo

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5105 on: July 14, 2021, 09:13:48 am »
Jurgen saying it's only single sessions for Gomez and Van Dijk with monitoring from the rehab department. Matip and Trent closer to full training with special programmes mixed between training alone and training with the team.

It's gonna be interesting to see whether Gomez and Van Dijk are held back for the start of the season. Good to hear they're wrapping them in cotton wool though.
"Word of the day is 'philodox' (17th century): one who is in love with their own opinion, and who consequently believes that everyone else should share it."  @susie_dent on twitter - https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1419683653844668422

Offline Dan6times

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5106 on: July 14, 2021, 09:01:00 pm »
I couldn't find a Pep Ljinders thread so I'm just going to stick it in here. I loved his interviews that he did the last two seasons for cup comps and he also did a podcast interview with Graham Hunter which was brilliant.

He's currently doing a diary after each training session and they are brilliant reads, can be found on the website.

Anyway I loved this quote today about Anfield celebrating a counter attack as other stadiums score a goal, its so true, that roar you get on a big game when you win the ball back high up is unique.

"Anfield celebrates a proper counter-pressing situation like other stadiums celebrate scoring a goal. Some stadiums don’t accept less and we have one of them.

That’s why I believe so much in the ‘holy trinity’ – fans, squad and manager, together reaching one belief.

Anyway, we will be back soon with more for you to enjoy. Trent will join our group tomorrow. We need more Scouse mentality and cheekiness in our sessions and we can’t wait to see him playing these crazy passes again!"
« Last Edit: July 14, 2021, 09:02:45 pm by Dan6times »
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5107 on: July 14, 2021, 09:43:45 pm »
Pep comes across very very well. His enthusiasm and excitement for the team shines through every time he does an interview. And he seems to be doing more media stuff these days too.

Offline redk84

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5108 on: July 15, 2021, 08:42:57 am »
I think Curtis will step up in minutes and Keita/Ox will cover the remaining required minutes is the plan at the moment.

Hopefully proper use of Jota and Thiago for Klopp with the 1st team this pre-season will help
Need to start next season flying

 
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Offline BassTunedToRed

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5109 on: July 15, 2021, 09:07:33 am »
Pep comes across very very well. His enthusiasm and excitement for the team shines through every time he does an interview. And he seems to be doing more media stuff these days too.

It's obvious to join the dots this way but I think there's a good chance he'll be our next manager. Promote from within like the old days.

Offline abhred

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5110 on: July 17, 2021, 06:19:31 am »
What a joy it is to read Pep's diaries. Great insight into how we play.

My hope is that when Klopp leaves, Pep is part of the transition.
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5111 on: July 18, 2021, 01:10:03 am »
What a joy it is to read Pep's diaries. Great insight into how we play.

My hope is that when Klopp leaves, Pep is part of the transition.
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Offline royhendo

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5112 on: July 29, 2021, 02:58:25 pm »
A few quick points to make - people are getting worried based on what other clubs are doing. Chelsea are 'good' now, Man Utd have added two players that address direct issues in their squad, and think what you like about Pogba, but losing him would probably do them a lot of good as a footballing unit. Meanwhile Man City are supposedly signing the two most statistically significant attacking performers in last season's league.

We're still us, however, and Gini's the only significant departure.

So - this from Andrew Beasley is significant. We have a lot of key players returning to fitness.


From https://twitter.com/BassTunedToRed/status/1391104678969192452

This from @distancecovered is significant. We've signed a player with pace at centre half to go with the three other players we already had returning to first team duty, who all have enormous pace at centre half. That also means we get our key 'lane blockers' back into their customary roles in the middle, and all that means for our shape as a unit.


From https://twitter.com/DistanceCovered/status/1367819305757376519

Those things are pretty significant to a side that also spent last season learning how to perform without those things being in place. It's fair to say, on the evidence of that run in, that the team grew in the absence of the absentees.

Gonna be an interesting season, even without further new signings being taken into account.
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5113 on: July 29, 2021, 05:00:14 pm »
I think the significant thing is prolonged fitness. If you could guarantee that Virgil is back to his best and we return to a level of injuries that we had in 18-19 and 19-20 (with maybe a bit more robustness from one of Keita or Ox) then the confidence would be supreme, and thats even with question over Firmino and Mane and their form.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5114 on: July 30, 2021, 01:29:03 pm »
It's obvious to join the dots this way but I think there's a good chance he'll be our next manager. Promote from within like the old days.

It would make sense if we want continuity and, apparently, it's what Klopp wants.
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Offline royhendo

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5115 on: August 4, 2021, 12:07:49 pm »
Found this very interesting from the Statsbomb Man Utd preview. Shows how our play skews to the right.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5116 on: August 4, 2021, 12:09:53 pm »
Which is no surprise given Salah and Trent's positions. Basically play to your strengths.

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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5117 on: August 4, 2021, 12:11:35 pm »
We carry the ball more on the left, pass it more on the right.
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5118 on: August 4, 2021, 02:20:40 pm »
We carry the ball more on the left, pass it more on the right.

And Arsenal never get out of their own end...
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Re: The Klopp Template
« Reply #5119 on: August 4, 2021, 04:39:14 pm »
Found this very interesting from the Statsbomb Man Utd preview. Shows how our play skews to the right.

Snip

Villa - get it Grealish
Newcastle - get it wide, launch it down the channels
Burnley - just launch it
Utd - no! not over by AWB
Fulham - shit this wind is strong!