Author Topic: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April  (Read 143503 times)

Offline BlackandWhitePaul

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1080 on: April 29, 2016, 11:50:12 am »
"Toxic people"

Avoid them like the plague.  They aren't worth even a minute of your time.

Offline Pheeny

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1081 on: April 29, 2016, 11:52:52 am »
This same person from college then went on to say "what about the truth about Heysel? Would be nice if the real truth came out about that "

I shut him up then
TAW has an excellent piece about Heysel.

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Offline MichaelA

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1082 on: April 29, 2016, 11:53:25 am »
"Toxic people"

Avoid them like the plague.  They aren't worth even a minute of your time.

Wise words. I think we're done discussing the trolls on here for now, there are ways and means of addressing these people at another time.

It would be great if we could try to focus on the positives in this threads. There are literally thousands of fans from every team in the land welcoming the verdicts. There are a few dickheads in this world, and supporting every team, but we needn't give them the oxygen when there are so many more good people around.

Ta.

Online Rob Dylan

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1083 on: April 29, 2016, 11:56:03 am »
This same person from college then went on to say "what about the truth about Heysel? Would be nice if the real truth came out about that "

I shut him up then

Ah the Heysel thing...apart from the fact that the two events cannot be connected because they involved two completely different sets of people, in different countries, in different situations - as far as I know the truth is out there, if they can be bothered to look. It's clear what happened and who was to blame. Maybe there are still some things that aren't known about UEFA and their decision to play the game there, maybe some officials who have got away with stuff - but why do these people always act like we would be opposed to the truth coming out and those who were to blame being punished? I'm sure the families of the Hillsborough victims and all Liverpool fans have the greatest sympathy for those affected, and would be all for anything which shed further light on what happened, or brought to justice anyone who has not been held accountable for it, even if they were Liverpool fans.

Edit: sorry just saw the post above mine. I'll leave it now.

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1084 on: April 29, 2016, 12:56:28 pm »
Soccer Stories: Hillsborough (BBC/ESPN)

This is the two-hour documentary that BBC2 will air next week. It was produced two years ago but was unable to be broadcast or shown in the UK due to the ongoing inquest. The BBC version will be updated to include the verdicts next week if you wish to wait.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/sdfcxGKIyog" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/sdfcxGKIyog</a>



:D

Offline Qston

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1085 on: April 29, 2016, 01:10:47 pm »
Soccer Stories: Hillsborough (BBC/ESPN)

This is the two-hour documentary that BBC2 will air next week. It was produced two years ago but was unable to be broadcast or shown in the UK due to the ongoing inquest. The BBC version will be updated to include the verdicts next week if you wish to wait.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/sdfcxGKIyog" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/sdfcxGKIyog</a>

Thanks for that. I have just had a quick look but I can`t see when it is on. Do you know so I can watch/record it ? Many thanks in advance
"Just a normal lad from Liverpool whose dream has just come true" Trent June 1st 2019

Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1086 on: April 29, 2016, 01:12:28 pm »
Thanks for that. I have just had a quick look but I can`t see when it is on. Do you know so I can watch/record it ? Many thanks in advance

Sunday the 8th of May, it'll be on iPlayer

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07bgnkn
:D

Offline marko35s

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1087 on: April 29, 2016, 01:15:36 pm »
Thanks for that. I have just had a quick look but I can`t see when it is on. Do you know so I can watch/record it ? Many thanks in advance
Available from all the 'unofficial' sites if you want it immediately.

Offline Qston

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1088 on: April 29, 2016, 01:18:26 pm »
Available from all the 'unofficial' sites if you want it immediately.

Thanks to both of you for replying
"Just a normal lad from Liverpool whose dream has just come true" Trent June 1st 2019

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1089 on: April 29, 2016, 01:52:13 pm »
What did Norman Bettison and David Crompton talk about?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/norman-bettison-phone-calls-texts-11255548#ICID=ios_EchoNewsApp_AppShare_Click_Other

"The email read: "One thing is certain - the Hillsborough Campaign for Justice will be doing their version... in fact their version of certain events has become 'the truth' even though it isn't!!

"I just have the feeling that the media 'machine' favours the families and not us, so we need to be a bit more innovative in our response to have a fighting chance otherwise we will just be roadkill."

Offline RedBootsTommySmith

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1090 on: April 29, 2016, 02:14:32 pm »
Soccer Stories: Hillsborough (BBC/ESPN)

This is the two-hour documentary that BBC2 will air next week. It was produced two years ago but was unable to be broadcast or shown in the UK due to the ongoing inquest. The BBC version will be updated to include the verdicts next week if you wish to wait.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/sdfcxGKIyog" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/sdfcxGKIyog</a>

Its available now on the US version of Netflix, if you can VPN into it.

'30 for 30: Hillsborough'.

Its harrowing, but very well done. 

Keep the tissues handy.

Victorious and glorious....

Offline XabiAlonsosBeard

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1091 on: April 29, 2016, 02:40:04 pm »
I watched that Soccer Stories documentary last night.

A brilliant, yet harrowing piece of storytelling. Absolutely compelling viewing.

A few points that grabbed my attention.

Firstly, Hillsborough was a disaster which showed the worst, most inhuman side of some "men" whose behaviour doesn't really warrant them being called men. From Middup spitting out his bilious lies from a mouth that was just a small part of a face exhibiting nothing but hate and contempt of football fans, to Duckenfield with his arrogance, his criminal incompetence and his selfishness in lying to cover his own back. Then there's Patnick and MacKenzie, the peddlers of defamatory slurs which the dead, their families, the survivors and a whole city suffered from for 27 years and still, despite the inquest results, still continue to suffer from til this day.

But, amongst that sea of shit, the documentary shines a light on some beautiful, kind, determined people full of admirable qualities like kindness, caring for your fellow man, integrity and an unnerving fighting spirit.

We all knew who they were beforehand anyway, like the fans who took the role of the emergency services when those whose job it was to help either froze or were totally overwhelmed by the situation. Then there's obviously all of the families of the 96 who've fought and fought and fought in the face of numerous obstacles put in their way. They are the bravest, most determined people I've ever known about. I don't know them personally, but I respect, admire and love every single one of them.

But, a particular two people jumped out at me from that documentary.

Phil Scraton - I've seen his name mentioned on here and was aware of his role in the HIP. But, I didn't really know that much about him. What an absolutely wonderful human being. A man full of intelligence, fight, determination. A man of class and integrity. And one who simply said no, this isn't happening, you are not getting away with this. He dug and dug until he found those smoking guns. He's an integral part of why the fight for justice is where it is today. If I ever met him in person, I'd just like to shake his hand and say "thank you". If said encounter was in a licenced premises, he wouldn't have to put his hand in his pocket all night.

The next person is Margaret Aspinall. What an unbelievably strong woman. There's a part in the documentary where she's talking about waiting for the coaches at Lime Street to return from Hillsborough.  And she waits. And waits. She's convinced that her son will be on the last coach. She just wants him to be okay. And she just wants to hug him. But, well, we all know what happened. Watching that bit broke my heart. I'm a 37 year old man. 6 ft 2. Big lad. I cried. Like a baby. Just so, so sad. And, if that was my son, I think it would've broke me. But, not Margaret. It motivated her. It gave her positive anger. And fight. She's just such an inspirational, loving woman and mother. If I ever met her, I'd just like to give her a big, massive hug. Amazing woman.

The second part of the documentary which jumped out at me was a section which showed camcorder point of view footage of the view people would've had once Gate C was opened and they were allowed into the stadium courtyard. There it was. Directly in front of them. A big, open tunnel. With a "Standing" sign above it. The camera then panned past a staircase, a small fence, round a corner, and showed a further entrance to the Leppings Lane terrace.

Who wouldn't have just headed down that tunnel straight in front of you? The one marked "standing"? The one that you'd presume led to a terrace with ample room to stand in purely because it was still open? If I was there on that day, I'd have gone down that tunnel. It was what fans did back then - "let's try and get behind the goal". Show that footage to a load of fans from the terrace era, and 9 out of 10 of them would've done exactly the same thing. The decision to not close that tunnel was an utter disgrace. Plus, it just goes to show, especially to all those who still cling to the fallacy that it only happened because it was Liverpool fans, that Hillsborough was a disaster that was just waiting to happen and could've easily happened to any club.

I've gone on a bit here, so here's my final point. I'll start it with a small caveat. This is in no way a defence of South Yorkshire Police. I largely despise them for what they did on that day and in the following 27 years. And what they continue to do even now. But, that documentary also shows that some police officers, the rank and file, did the best they could on that day. They didn't fail to discharge their public duty. They were also let down by their chief's. They were also caught up in the conspiracy of lies afterwards when their statements were "sanitised" without their knowledge. I just felt it right to acknowledge their best efforts as Hillsborough also appears to have scarred them too, through no fault of their own.

I'll watch this again when it's on BBC with the additional footage. I hope lots of people watch it. Particularly those who still cling to the fan blaming rhetoric. They can't possibly do so anymore if they watch this.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 02:45:25 pm by XabiAlonsosBeard »
Justice for the 96.

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Offline Jimmy Conway

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1092 on: April 29, 2016, 03:04:43 pm »
What did Norman Bettison and David Crompton talk about?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/norman-bettison-phone-calls-texts-11255548#ICID=ios_EchoNewsApp_AppShare_Click_Other

"The email read: "One thing is certain - the Hillsborough Campaign for Justice will be doing their version... in fact their version of certain events has become 'the truth' even though it isn't!!

"I just have the feeling that the media 'machine' favours the families and not us, so we need to be a bit more innovative in our response to have a fighting chance otherwise we will just be roadkill."

Jesus Christ

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1093 on: April 29, 2016, 03:15:34 pm »
the McGovern documentary on Hillsborough is being shown on Itv on sunday
yer ma should have called you Paolo Zico Gerry Socrates HELLRAZOR

Offline WEST HAM PAUL

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1094 on: April 29, 2016, 03:55:15 pm »
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=znB4GWJWPY0

West Ham v QPR January 1988 . I've posted this just out of interest as if you watch from about 3-5 mins in you will see the crowd come onto the pitch

Hope no one minds this being posted but its being used in a debate by West Ham fans  on Hillsborough & on how there by the grace of god really. Those there saying if fences were there it would have been a disaster & how the police response is horses 

A West Ham fans account

The fourth round FA Cup fixture was billed as all-ticket and West Ham had sold their 4,000 allocation, but when we arrived QPR were allowing fans to pay at the away turnstiles. It was claimed that 2,000 entered with forged tickets, but no evidence seemed to be provided to confirm this. There was congestion outside the ground, but it was worse inside, with the narrow, low ceilinged corridor that leads to the School End lower tier packed solid. Out of sight, this is where the bodies might have piled up had there been fences at QPR.

By the time we reached the terrace it was pretty much full, although you could still move. I got separated from my friends, but found a position in front of a crush barrier. This was however well before kick off and fans were still pouring in. With turnstiles on only one side of the stand, the left hand side of the enclosure filled more than the right. Not only was the terrace over capacity, but distribution was uneven.

Soon after kick off, as the pressure built to intolerable levels, fans started to climb over the low wall onto the pitch perimeter to escape the crush. At least one supporter was carried away unconscious. There was however no panic, no pitch invasion and no hooligan intent, although BBC Grandstand reported it as crowd trouble with West Ham fans invading the pitch. Many supporters simply sat on the side of the pitch to watch the match, but numbers meant that some spilled onto the edge of the playing area. The police response was to bring almost a dozen horses onto the pitch.

The game was stopped for an hour as the police and stewards tried to find room for the hundreds of West Ham fans who had left the overcrowded terrace. QPR fans were moved in a section of the home end to make space and other visiting supporters found seats in the Ellerslie Road Stand on the side. West Ham had fans in all areas of the ground, segregation was minimal, but there was no violence. The mood remained humorous, with fans singing, ‘What’s it like to shovel ****’ as a steward cleaned the plastic pitch after the police horses and pretended to throw dung into the crowd.

How different things would have been that afternoon if fences had prevented supporters escaping the crush. As West Ham supporter and football journalist Mark Segal recalled:


‘I remember being incredibly scared that day and have no doubt that if there had been fences West Ham fans would have died that day '
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Offline Thepooloflife

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1095 on: April 29, 2016, 04:09:15 pm »
These past few days have been so overwhelming for me......been so elated, angry and choked all at once, after hearing the verdicts. I'm speechless really, but now, still tearful, would just like to record my sheer joy, relief and happiness that the 96, their families, all the survivors and supporters and campaigners can now, finally, have some peace in the lawful revelation of the truth, which we've always known - and can look forward in the hope that justice for those responsible, is not too far off.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 04:30:14 pm by Thepooloflife »

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1096 on: April 29, 2016, 04:51:31 pm »
I wasn't at Hillsborough, I don't know anyone who was and I didn't lose anyone in the disaster, I watched it unfold on the tv, clinging to my two young children, raging inwardly why the police just stood there instead of helping.

It haunts me to this day.  I've never been able to look at still pictures, video footage or watch any of the documentaries made about it but I now feel I can.

So thank you to those of you who've posted up details of when and where they're being shown.

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1097 on: April 29, 2016, 05:12:38 pm »
The Everton thread in the general is locked. If any mod could reopen and put this in there.  :wave

Their Match Program this weekend.


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Offline Thepooloflife

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1098 on: April 29, 2016, 05:18:23 pm »
The Everton thread in the general is locked. If any mod could reopen and put this in there.  :wave

Their Match Program this weekend.




Wonderful tribute.

Offline SP

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1099 on: April 29, 2016, 05:31:09 pm »
Quoted into its rightful place.

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1100 on: April 29, 2016, 05:37:11 pm »
Just watched the documentry, but I'll also watch the updated version, how hard hitting but yet informative and well done, the images of that lad pinned up against the fence dead had me.

Very very touching

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1101 on: April 29, 2016, 05:52:34 pm »
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

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Offline XabiAlonsosBeard

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1102 on: April 29, 2016, 06:04:21 pm »
They just can't let it go. Scum.

Retired police inspector: I disagree with Hillsborough inquest findings - ITV News
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-04-29/retired-police-officer-i-disagree-with-hillsborough-inquest-findings/
Justice for the 96.

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Offline CornerFlag

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1103 on: April 29, 2016, 06:04:58 pm »
Yeah, just watching that on Granada tonight, he's a fucking disgrace.
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Offline XabiAlonsosBeard

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1104 on: April 29, 2016, 06:07:54 pm »
Yeah, just watching that on Granada tonight, he's a fucking disgrace.

Indeed. He's just repeating the party line. Which has now been totally discredited. Just let it go.
Justice for the 96.

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1105 on: April 29, 2016, 06:12:33 pm »
Quoted into its rightful place.

Ta SP.
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Offline 12C

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1106 on: April 29, 2016, 06:39:09 pm »
Check his statement
He was nowhere near the Leppings lane end until the shit had hit the fan. He was down at the Kop end. So is well qualified to talk about what happened outside the gates. Yeah right. He is subtle though. Forest fans behaved, only 2 horses needed.etc. Yet if you read the statements of fans in the Kop, he is spouting utter shit

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/SYP000074900001.pdf
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Offline Kashinoda

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1107 on: April 29, 2016, 06:44:33 pm »
Check his statement
He was nowhere near the Leppings lane end until the shit had hit the fan. He was down at the Kop end. So is well qualified to talk about what happened outside the gates. Yeah right. He is subtle though. Forest fans behaved, only 2 horses needed.etc. Yet if you read the statements of fans in the Kop, he is spouting utter shit

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/SYP000074900001.pdf


Still, when he talks about Liverpool fans he doesn't really say anything out of the ordinary (I quoted above) He's basically going back on his statement as far as I can tell.
:D

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1108 on: April 29, 2016, 06:50:12 pm »
You have to ask yourself why ITV give this the oxygen of air time, spent years fighting against media misinformation, finally get there, and they start propagating lies again thought this idiot
They have translated from Halmstads to Malmo, to Orebo to Neuchatel Xamax, to the Swiss national team, so I find the question insulting.

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1109 on: April 29, 2016, 06:53:46 pm »
Senile arl twat.

Calling Duckenfield, David. Tells a story that for me and then keeping up the self denial even after all that has gone over the last few days. The boys down at the lodge will be so, so proud.


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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1110 on: April 29, 2016, 07:04:00 pm »
Fucking prick.

Whether the fans were late or not the fact is they should still be able to deal with the situation easily either way. Can't believe Granada are airing this shite.

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1111 on: April 29, 2016, 07:07:13 pm »

Would make a good banner if it isn't already.

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1112 on: April 29, 2016, 07:11:20 pm »
On Tuesday or Wednesday morning on radio four's Today programme there was a broadcast of an interview with a young doctor who was present at Hillsborough . This was followed up with an interview with the same Doctor in the present.

Did anyone catch his name ? All I recall is that I'm sure he's gone on to have a quite high profile within the medical profession in the subsequent years.

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1113 on: April 29, 2016, 07:14:22 pm »
Fucking prick.

Whether the fans were late or not the fact is they should still be able to deal with the situation easily either way. Can't believe Granada are airing this shite.

It should have been a routine police operation.  The fact that it was an FA Cup semi shouldn't make a difference.  It's not like it was a Wembley semi final or even a final.  Hundreds of such operations are conducted up and down the nation every week, and it's been established that fan numbers or behaviour was not exceptional or unusual for the event. 

This disaster was down to two key things: a stadium not fit for purpose, coupled with a rookie commander who didn't establish the basics necessary for safe conduct of supporters.  A man who panicked went things went awry; who froze when the disaster unfolded, and who lied when asked what had happened.

These are now indisputable facts and every fucking idiot of a police officer who wants to go on telly to spout his nonsensical bullshit should be torn to strips with these facts and made to look like the bloody minded, prejudiced, bile filled dickhead that they are.

That is, in fact, the ONLY reason they should be given air time - to make a complete show of themselves.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 07:16:54 pm by Red Beret »
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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1114 on: April 29, 2016, 07:19:15 pm »
On Tuesday or Wednesday morning on radio four's Today programme there was a broadcast of an interview with a young doctor who was present at Hillsborough . This was followed up with an interview with the same Doctor in the present.

Did anyone catch his name ? All I recall is that I'm sure he's gone on to have a quite high profile within the medical profession in the subsequent years.



John Ashton  ?
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Offline MrEazi1

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1115 on: April 29, 2016, 07:22:01 pm »
Soccer Stories: Hillsborough (BBC/ESPN)

This is the two-hour documentary that BBC2 will air next week. It was produced two years ago but was unable to be broadcast or shown in the UK due to the ongoing inquest. The BBC version will be updated to include the verdicts next week if you wish to wait.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/sdfcxGKIyog" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/sdfcxGKIyog</a>
I'm not sure how many people want to watch this. It gets VERY graphic at times after the 30 mins mark.

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1116 on: April 29, 2016, 07:38:16 pm »
John Ashton  ?

Thank you, I'll see if I can confirm that name
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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1117 on: April 29, 2016, 07:58:17 pm »
At this rate, SYP are going to need a massive recruitment drive.  I suspect they are going to have a flurry of "early retirements" in the not too distant future.
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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1118 on: April 29, 2016, 08:06:29 pm »
At this rate, SYP are going to need a massive recruitment drive.  I suspect they are going to have a flurry of "early retirements" in the not too distant future.
If Andy Burnham gets his way early retirement wont save them from a knock on the door.

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Re: Hillsborough - Inquest Verdicts - Tuesday 26th April
« Reply #1119 on: April 29, 2016, 08:09:56 pm »
Respect to the Blues.
And with such simplicity,
The European Cup, surely, is won.