Topic: United Ireland v United Kingdom

[drmick]

Is there more of an appetite for a United Ireland from the younger demographics who aren’t as entrenched and arsed by all the sectarian bollocks? In the past year it must be clear as day that Westminster do not give a single fuck about the union anymore and hold N. Ireland in contempt almost.

Good question- I don't know. Certainly young Catholics now outnumber young Protestants, and the the rate of difference between the two is growing year on year in favour of Cathoilcs.

Like I said earlier about New Ireland, the groundwork is being laid down. I reckon Sinn Fein know exactly when a border poll will produce the required result.

In terms of Republicanism- most of the dissidents they arrest these days tend to be in their early 20s, and thus have no first hand concept of what the Troubles were like.

A hard Brexit will create a new generation of Republicans. If I was the British Govt I would be worried about that. The advent of the internet makes the tools for terrorism a lot easier to acquire.

[BobOnATank]

Is there more of an appetite for a United Ireland from the younger demographics who aren’t as entrenched and arsed by all the sectarian bollocks? In the past year it must be clear as day that Westminster do not give a single fuck about the union anymore and hold N. Ireland in contempt almost.

No its not like a brexit opinion where old age leads to insecurity and unfortunately right wing politics in many cases. In NI there are simply two communities, those that identify as Irish and those that identify as british. In 20 years there will likely be approx. a 51% to 37% lean to those who identify as Irish, it is not just about hatred of one side or the other, its just how you are brought up. Think scouse v manc, scouse are the irish and we are coming up the hill .

[BobOnATank]

Patrick Kielty versus Boris Johnston on NI & Brexit.

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/patrick-kielty-hits-out-boris-15215672

[BobOnATank]

And more commentary on Brexit & the DUP, well at least there is the UUP who wanted remain....

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/05/brexit-dup-northern-ireland

[BobOnATank]

At least with unification this would never have to happen:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46127488

A 15 year old child being arrested in school after her GP reported her for taking an abortion pill sourced by her mother - seriously WTF but thats NI for you...

[BobOnATank]

Unification would be better than all types of Brexit https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46129039

Not much of a discovery as it should be obvious to anyone with a brain that brexit is idiocy in action.

[drmick]

At least with unification this would never have to happen:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46127488

A 15 year old child being arrested in school after her GP reported her for taking an abortion pill sourced by her mother - seriously WTF but thats NI for you...

I am not seeing the bit about the girl being arrested in school?

Regardless- it is not difficult to see why authorities might have concerns about the mother of a 15 year old girl attending mental health services buying abortion pills illegally for the daughter, is it not?

The arrest, if it did happen, would be to take custody of the girl away from the mother.

[BobOnATank]

The school arrest was on that BBC report before... but probably removed now that the story moved on.

From https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2018/1106/1009005-abortion-northern-ireland/

The barrister said investigating police officers then arrived at the child's school and removed her from a classroom to speak to her in the absence of her parents.

[BobOnATank]

I am not seeing the bit about the girl being arrested in school?

Regardless- it is not difficult to see why authorities might have concerns about the mother of a 15 year old girl attending mental health services buying abortion pills illegally for the daughter, is it not?

The arrest, if it did happen, would be to take custody of the girl away from the mother.

No you are wrong, the 15 year old child was arrested for taking the abortion pill and subsequently illegally questioned on the subject. If the mother was really at fault then the police should have arrested her and not the child, social services should of taken care of the child but that's not NI. That's what satisfies the flat earthers and dupers.

[drmick]

No you are wrong, the 15 year old child was arrested for taking the abortion pill and subsequently illegally questioned on the subject. If the mother was really at fault then the police should have arrested her and not the child, social services should of taken care of the child but that's not NI. That's what satisfies the flat earthers and dupers.

I am not convinced that this case was influenced by the dup/flat earth thinking. To me it looks like a genuine child protection case.

[BobOnATank]

It should be a child protection case in a normal society but instead its now a case of criminalsation of the mother for procuring an abortion pill with the childs best interests in mind. Either way a doctor should be able to allow the girl to decide whats best for her rather than the state to use laws that violate her human rights.


On the topic of uniting people in the Future Ireland this is a good blog, some good discussion in the comments section as well https://sluggerotoole.com/2018/11/10/future-ireland-uniting-people-and-our-children-is-the-starting-point/

[drmick]

It should be a child protection case in a normal society but instead its now a case of criminalsation of the mother for procuring an abortion pill with the childs best interests in mind. Either way a doctor should be able to allow the girl to decide whats best for her rather than the state to use laws that violate her human rights.


On the topic of uniting people in the Future Ireland this is a good blog, some good discussion in the comments section as well https://sluggerotoole.com/2018/11/10/future-ireland-uniting-people-and-our-children-is-the-starting-point/

That abortion issue story would be a tricky situation for a doctor to deal with in England, even if mother and child went together to a clinic or GP, where abortion is legal. A 15 year old with mental health problems getting pregnant is worrying, no matter where in the world it happens.

I agree that the NI law is wrong. I would love to know a lot more detail on this case, but my reading of it is that the mother is not blameless, and it may well be that the book is being thrown at her after a succession of child protection issues.

[BobOnATank]

The child, it seems, has mental health issues because of the bloke she was with being abusive and is wanting to abort his child rather than the mother causing her harm

The lawyer then quoted from a statement given by the teenager outlining why a toxic relationship with her former boyfriend had influenced her decision to terminate the pregnancy.
"The idea of him being the father to my child and him being in our life in the long term made me physically ill," the girl said.

The mother and daughter are being supported by Amnesty International and is not being prosecuted for child abuse at all

The mother, who cannot be named for legal reasons, is facing two counts of procuring and supplying the abortion drugs with the intent to procure a miscarriage, contrary to the 1861 Offences Against the Person Act.
She could face up to five years in prison if convicted.

Anyway the main point as the UN says is that because of the archaic laws in NI her human rights are being violated.

[KERRYKOP]

So when is the handing back ceremony?

[drmick]

The child, it seems, has mental health issues because of the bloke she was with being abusive and is wanting to abort his child rather than the mother causing her harm

The mother and daughter are being supported by Amnesty International and is not being prosecuted for child abuse at all
Anyway the main point as the UN says is that because of the archaic laws in NI her human rights are being violated.

I possibly stand corrected!

[Ray K]

So when is the handing back ceremony?

I think this friendly tonight decides it.  Loser has to take custody of Sammy Wilson.

[Macphisto80]

Arlene Foster must be considering shopping around for a new gaff about now. Thailand, maybe? Plenty of farmers she could hawk her wares to over there.

[BobOnATank]

I think this friendly tonight decides it.  Loser has to take custody of Sammy Wilson.

No wonder it was a draw, too cruel to impose him on any part of the world!

[Sarge]

DUP in meltdown and its fucking hilarious.

[Macphisto80]

DUP in meltdown and its fucking hilarious.

Especially given that the shinners warned them it would happen.

[Sarge]

Especially given that the shinners warned them it would happen.

Very true, O' Neill and MLMD just need to sit back and let them implode.

[BobOnATank]

A revealing article on the subject by the Financial Times: https://t.co/Cn3SZwLt5U https://twitter.com/financialtimes/status/1068535169450196992

Some hard realities around the economic decline of NI versus the republic growth.

[drmick]

A revealing article on the subject by the Financial Times: https://t.co/Cn3SZwLt5U https://twitter.com/financialtimes/status/1068535169450196992

Some hard realities around the economic decline of NI versus the republic growth.

That article compares NI to ROI on GDP. But isn't Ireland's GDP massively inflated by lots of companies using it off-shore for low corporation tax?

[Sarge]

That article compares NI to ROI on GDP. But isn't Ireland's GDP massively inflated by lots of companies using it off-shore for low corporation tax?

Yes and a worry is that if and it a big if the multinationals pulled out we would be fucked.

[drmick]

Yes and a worry is that if and it a big if the multinationals pulled out we would be fucked.

But how much of that money actually really ends in Ireland? Likely just the tax recouped. How much is that worth?

[BobOnATank]

Yes and a worry is that if and it a big if the multinationals pulled out we would be fucked.

Fucked is a bit too strong a word, precarious yes but not fucked. The gov debt to the rest of the GDP is on the edge but manageable (currently!) and that's what the government manages against. Last I looked it would likely be around the UK debt to GDP level about 110/120% (from memory so could be wrong!). But that doesn't mean the multinational contribution isn't a real economy, it still generates lots of jobs and revenue. Also the article highlights the under development of the economy in many places in NI so plenty of opportunity for growth as well as being the most poorly funded area as part of the UK. That potential growth, lower costs (military for example) and EU funding will chip away at that £10bn cost even further.

Hell why not get Microsoft or Apple to sponsor a new unified flag/fleg 

[drmick]

A referendum would narrow it to one of two options

[kennedy81]

This was a good read:

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/ireland/cycling-the-border-2018-at-least-yous-are-prods-you-f-kers-1.3727569

[BobOnATank]

Here's a new reason for leaving the UK, assuming you don't want to live on a nuclear waste dump...

https://comhlamh.org/blog/uk-government-releases-studies-on-siting-gdf-nuclear-waste-dumps-in-northern-ireland/

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[Daniel Cabbaggio]

Here's a new reason for leaving the UK, assuming you don't want to live on a nuclear waste dump...

https://comhlamh.org/blog/uk-government-releases-studies-on-siting-gdf-nuclear-waste-dumps-in-northern-ireland/

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Its not like the south Armagh region will have a problem with that or anything 

[cowtownred]

If their understanding of geography includes having Maghera on the Down coast 50 miles South of Belfast, I wouldn't be too worried.

[Macphisto80]

If their understanding of geography includes having Maghera on the Down coast 50 miles South of Belfast, I wouldn't be too worried.

I was wondering what you were talking about there, until I clicked on the link and saw the image.

For fuck sake!

[drmick]

If their understanding of geography includes having Maghera on the Down coast 50 miles South of Belfast, I wouldn't be too worried.

It seems to be where Newcastle is.

One of the article mentions that it may the real purpose for proposed Newry bypass. I've driven that road a few times, and it takes a while to get through Newry but it likely doesn't carry enough traffic to justify the expense of a bypass unless there is indeed a plan for increased use of Warrenpoint Port to ship something south of Newry.

[Macphisto80]

It's like walking into some c*nts house after you've taken a shit on their patio, and then went and wiped your hole on their curtains.

"Aye, you're grand there, fella. Carry on, sure!"



Seriously, who the fuck do they think they are?

[campioni]

If their understanding of geography includes having Maghera on the Down coast 50 miles South of Belfast, I wouldn't be too worried.

There’s a very small village called Maghera between Castlewellan and Newcastle.

[BarryCrocker]

There’s a very small village called Maghera between Castlewellan and Newcastle.

Just like there's a harbour town called Sydney in Nova Scotia, Canada. If you're going to use a map to illustrate something get the simple facts right.

[BobOnATank]

http://www.newrydemocrat.com/news/2019/02/05/news/council-united-in-nuclear-waste-opposition-3162/

Article from the local Newry democrat seems to think is quite a credible story even if the studies geography is shit!

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[Macphisto80]

So they want to use the island of Ireland (or the bit they can get away with doing so), or more specifically, the Mourne Mountains, as a dumping ground for the most toxic shit known to mankind, and they think we'd be sound with that? Why isn't this bigger news? In fact, why isn't this on the front pages of every major Irish published newspaper north or south?

[BobOnATank]

Now getting more coverage in the mainstream press https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/nuclear-waste-facility-could-be-located-in-border-town-1.3784563?mode=amp

It does require local consent but also comes backed with a wide range of bribes.

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[Elmo!]

So they want to use the island of Ireland (or the bit they can get away with doing so), or more specifically, the Mourne Mountains, as a dumping ground for the most toxic shit known to mankind, and they think we'd be sound with that? Why isn't this bigger news? In fact, why isn't this on the front pages of every major Irish published newspaper north or south?

Well it makes a change from them using Scotland.