Author Topic: The 48 team World Cup conundrum and how to find the proper format to it?  (Read 1077 times)

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I wrote this on Reddit, but I am sharing it here too in case people want to discuss the best format for a 48 team world cup.

As you might have read previously on these boards or listened during any World Cup broadcasts this year. This will be the last time the World cup is going to have 32 teams.

Starting from the next edition in 2026, hosted by the North American countries of Mexico, Canada and The US, there are going to be 48 teams participating.

As always with FIFA, however, decisions have been made without much thought or study and thus after current FIFA president, Gianni Infantino announced on October 4th, 2016 that the competition has expanded, it was of no surprise to hear that FIFA didn't have a solid plan about the format of the competition and instead had four expansion options were considered, two of them were scraped as they had expansion set to 40 teams only, instead of 48, the two remaining expansion format were as follows:

  • Expand to 48 teams (opening 32-team playoff round)—80 matches
  • Expand to 48 teams (16 groups of 3 teams)—80 matches

As you can see, both were not only bad, they were just plain terrible. The first option takes the lowest ranked 32 teams and play them in knockout format and then have the winners play in the group stages. I don't need to expand on why this is not only a terrible idea from a spectacle perspective, it simply gives no room for error, especially for teams who worked for 4 years to qualify for this coveted competition only to end up playing 1 game.

The second option, which FIFA said will get the go ahead is somehow even worse. For once, groups of three where two teams can qualify for the next round, will put integrity of the competition into question and will simply kill the group stage games. I also find the idea that they reduced the minimum guaranteed games for any nations from 3 to 2 is off putting.

FIFA it seems have heard the same problems. Amid collusion fears, it seems FIFA wants to go back to groups of four.https://tinyurl.com/bd9hfn9t

After a lot of talk about how this format is not exciting and being reminded every match of the expansion, I started thinking about the best format that would guarantee excitement and simplicity. As someone who hates the best third placed teams solution, as I think it is lazy and unimaginative, I started coming up with different formats that can work with groups of four.

Finally, it came to mind that my grand father, my father, my uncles still glow and talk about the 1982 World Cup as their favorite. They all talked about how competitive it was and how pretty much almost every game mattered especially in the second group phase. In referenced this was the format of the 1982 World Cup:

  • 6 Groups (4 teams in each group, round robin format)
  • Top two teams from each group qualify to the second round
  • The second round group games are seeded as follows, "The composition of the groups in the second round was determined before the start of the tournament. Groups A and B were to include one team from each of Groups 1 through 6, and Groups C and D included the remaining six teams. The winners of Groups 1 and 3 were in Group A whilst the runners-up were in Group C. The winners of Groups 2 and 4 were in Group B whilst the runners-up were in Group D. The winner of Group 5 was in Group D whilst the runner-up was in Group B. The winner of Group 6 was in Group C whilst the runner-up was in Group A. Thus, Group A mirrored Group C, and Group B mirrored Group D with the winners and runners-up from the first round being placed into opposite groups in the second round. The second-round groups that mirrored each other (based on the first-round groupings) faced off against each other in the semifinals. Thus, the Group A winner played the Group C winner, and the Group B winner played the Group D winner. This meant that if two teams which played in the same first-round group both emerged from the second round, they would meet for the second time of the tournament in a semifinal match. It also guaranteed that the final match would feature two teams that had not previously played each other in the tournament. As it turned out, Italy and Poland who were both in Group 1 in the first round, each won their second-round groups and played each other in a semifinal match."
  • Additionally in the second round of group games, although the fixtures were provisionally determined in advance, the teams competing in each fixture depended on the result of the opening match in each group: Should a team lose their opening game of the group, that team would then have to play in the second fixture against the team not playing in the opening group game; the winner of the opening game would, by contrast, be rewarded by not needing to play again until the final fixture of the group and therefore gained extra recovery time. If the opening game was a draw, the predetermined order of games would proceed as planned. These regulations helped ensure that the final group games were of importance as no team could already have progressed to the semi-finals by the end of the second fixtures.

Taking this format, and applying it to a 48 team world cup, I think it is the best one. For example, it guarantees that half of the first teams participating in the competition advance from the group stages and practically guarantee a competitive second round games which will feature a lot of heavyweights together with only the winner of each group advancing to the quarter finals, thus no collusion to worry about, meanwhile the final group game of each group in the second round will be a meaningful game and not a dead rubber.

Last but not least, those reaching the semis will end up playing 8 games which is just an extra game more than in the current format, while also still having the competition being concluded under the 35 days maximum that FIFA guarantee.

As a reminder here is how the format would go:

  • First round of group games (12 groups of 4, round robin format, each team plays 3 games, top two teams qualify) - 72 games
  • Second round of group games (8 groups of 3, round robin format, each team plays 2 games, top team qualify) - 24 games
  • Knock out competition from the QF till the final. - 8 games
  • Total 104 games

What do you think about this format? Do you think it is applicable? Please let me in the comments.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2022, 02:11:13 am by please, I have my reasons for it but... »
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Re: The 48 team World Cup conundrum and how to find the proper format to it?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2022, 09:14:43 am »
If it has to be 48 teams then i'd just do 12 groups of 4 and top 2 go through along with 8 3rd placed teams and then knockouts from round of 32. Basically the Euros format with an extra knockout game.
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Re: The 48 team World Cup conundrum and how to find the proper format to it?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2022, 09:26:46 am »
What do you think about this format? Do you think it is applicable? Please let me in the comments.

Agree, I think this would be the best format. Might be just 1982 nostalgia speaking but I think that's the best solution (with the tweaks suggested). The first round will probably be even more tedious than it is currently though with so many poor quality teams.

FIFA will no doubt go with the Euros format, which makes it even worse again.

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Re: The 48 team World Cup conundrum and how to find the proper format to it?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2022, 09:38:29 am »
Agree, I think this would be the best format. Might be just 1982 nostalgia speaking but I think that's the best solution (with the tweaks suggested). The first round will probably be even more tedious than it is currently though with so many poor quality teams.

FIFA will no doubt go with the Euros format, which makes it even worse again.

They may as well just go the whole hog and do 64 teams so the current format fits but with a round of 32. UEFA will just end up making the Euros 32 teams and replicate the current World Cup format.

It's too uneven with 24 or 48 rather than 16 or 32.
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Re: The 48 team World Cup conundrum and how to find the proper format to it?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2022, 02:29:15 pm »
The basic problem is they’re expanding the tournament by adding 16 teams worse than Qatar.  Nobody can polish a turd like that.

In fact the entire first round will probably just be for knocking those 16 back out again, so they can get down to an even number for the knockout rounds.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2022, 02:32:53 pm by Iska »

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Re: The 48 team World Cup conundrum and how to find the proper format to it?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2022, 02:39:40 pm »
The basic problem is they’re expanding the tournament by adding 16 teams worse than Qatar.  Nobody can polish a turd like that.

In fact the entire first round will probably just be for knocking those 16 back out again, so they can get down to an even number for the knockout rounds.

They are not though adding 16 worse teams than Qatar. Qatar would possibly be one of the teams added (they are only in this WC due to hosting). But they are more likely adding teams like Italy, Norway, Ukraine, Ireland and turkey from Europe;, Chile and Colombia fromsouthy America; Egypt, Nigeria and cite d'Ivoire from Africa. Yes there will be a Jamaica or similarly poor concacaf teams, NZ will make it more frequently, maybe more Asian teams. But definitely not "16 worse teams than Qatar"

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Re: The 48 team World Cup conundrum and how to find the proper format to it?
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2022, 03:13:53 pm »
They are not though adding 16 worse teams than Qatar. Qatar would possibly be one of the teams added (they are only in this WC due to hosting). But they are more likely adding teams like Italy, Norway, Ukraine, Ireland and turkey from Europe;, Chile and Colombia fromsouthy America; Egypt, Nigeria and cite d'Ivoire from Africa. Yes there will be a Jamaica or similarly poor concacaf teams, NZ will make it more frequently, maybe more Asian teams. But definitely not "16 worse teams than Qatar"
Yeah, you can argue adding Honduras and say Trinidad and Tobago or Jamaica isn't good, similarly, adding a couple of Asian teams can be a hit or miss but especially from Africa, Europe and South America, the additions won't be bad at all.
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Re: The 48 team World Cup conundrum and how to find the proper format to it?
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2022, 03:56:51 pm »
Yeah, you can argue adding Honduras and say Trinidad and Tobago or Jamaica isn't good, similarly, adding a couple of Asian teams can be a hit or miss but especially from Africa, Europe and South America, the additions won't be bad at all.

It depends what teams add to the tournament. If they turn up and have a go and bring loads of fans and atmosphere, then so what if they're not very good?

If they turn up just to park the bus for 3 games and don't bring many fans then they won't offer much.

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Re: The 48 team World Cup conundrum and how to find the proper format to it?
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2022, 06:54:14 pm »
I dunno, I’ve missed Italy but all the confederations are already sending a couple of duds, I’m not persuaded there’s much quality that’s missing out.  I just feel like eventually we’ll end up with a format like some of the cricket world cups, where the first stages go on forever, all the usual suspects get through anyway, and any shocks end up being meaningless.  I don’t think cricket even has quarterfinals, just interminable group stages - nobody who loves the game can be involved in designing those formats surely.  I always half-assumed the real point was to provide fodder for betting.

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Re: The 48 team World Cup conundrum and how to find the proper format to it?
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2022, 07:33:39 pm »
I dunno, I’ve missed Italy but all the confederations are already sending a couple of duds, I’m not persuaded there’s much quality that’s missing out.  I just feel like eventually we’ll end up with a format like some of the cricket world cups, where the first stages go on forever, all the usual suspects get through anyway, and any shocks end up being meaningless.  I don’t think cricket even has quarterfinals, just interminable group stages - nobody who loves the game can be involved in designing those formats surely.  I always half-assumed the real point was to provide fodder for betting.

The cricket format is ridiculous but it's only really popular in about 7 countries anyway so it's the only way they can really carry a World Cup. Rugby similar. Football is unique in that respect.
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