Topic: Portsmouth FC out of Administration

[RJH]

Sky said they have rejected a cash offer, what does that mean

If by "they" you mean HMRC, then it's that Portsmouth offered to pay £1.8 million of the £7.5 mill now, with the rest paid in installments over a period of time. This offer was rejected.

[Graham Smith]

They'll be working on the basis that the new owner can't afford for the whole thing to collapse and be looking for him to put his personal wealth in to the settlement deal and increase the initial lump sum.

High stakes poker.

[Fletchinho]

Can they still go into administration? It would be sad to see them go.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Can they still go into administration?

yes

[sinnermichael]

if pompey get wound up, what happens about relegation? i presume 3 still go down as 3 have to come up?

[Red Viper]

if pompey get wound up, what happens about relegation? i presume 3 still go down as 3 have to come up?

Was just about to ask that. 3 down 4 up?

[chrisfletcher]

if pompey get wound up, what happens about relegation? i presume 3 still go down as 3 have to come up?

They'll still be in the League - they'll just have 10 points deducted and it will need a miracle for them to stay up - just like all the other clubs lower down the league that go into administration

If they disappear completely then only 2 others will go down - plus City, Arsenal, Villa and the all the other teams who beat them would lose their 3 points. Us on the other hand.................. would increase our goal difference

[redgriffin73]

if pompey get wound up, what happens about relegation? i presume 3 still go down as 3 have to come up?

If Pompey are already taken out of the equation would it not just be 2 more to go down so 3 can still come up to even out the numbers again?

Edit - being thick, that still wouldn't work would it?

[Fletchinho]

Reading portsmouth forums, it looks like all is over

They'll still be in the League - they'll just have 10 points deducted and it will need a miracle for them to stay up - just like all the other clubs lower down the league that go into administration

If they disappear completely then only 2 others will go down - plus City, Arsenal, Villa and the all the other teams who beat them would lose their 3 points. Us on the other hand.................. would increase our goal difference

The FA has ruled against that a few years ago. All the teams that are yet to play them will be awarded three points.

[chrisfletcher]

Reading portsmouth forums, it looks like all is over
The FA has ruled against that a few years ago. All the teams that are yet to play them will be awarded three points.

So we would get no goal difference advantage then? Seems harsh - admittedly harsher on Pompey

[a red revolution]

The FA has ruled against that a few years ago. All the teams that are yet to play them will be awarded three points.

Is that the case though?

I remember seeing the back of a paper mocking our situation about a month ago saying that Rafa shouldn't worry as if Pompey went bust then we'd move up into the top 4 by virtue of their results being declared null (i.e. it would be points removed from teams that beat them, rather than everyone getting extra points for the games they have/should've played against Portsmouth)?

[chrisfletcher]

So we would get no goal difference advantage then? Seems harsh - admittedly harsher on Pompey

Just noticed your user name - we could have this conversation at the dinner table tonight if easier?

[Wigwamdelbert]

If they are wound up, rule 29 comes into play:

If any Club ceases during the Season to be a member of the League, the record of the League Matches in which it has participated that Season shall be expunged from the table and the number of Clubs to be relegated at the end of that Season shall be reduced so as to maintain at 20 (or, if less, as near thereto as may be) the number of Clubs in membership of the League
at the beginning of the next Season.

Reading portsmouth forums, it looks like all is over
The FA has ruled against that a few years ago. All the teams that are yet to play them will be awarded three points.

Nonsense

[MrGrumpy]

From the BBC


Portsmouth cash offer rejected by HMRC


Portsmouth still face a winding-up hearing after Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs rejected a cash offer from the club, BBC Sport understands.

Pompey offered a down payment to settle debts of about £7m with HMRC.

But HMRC also wanted a schedule for the repayment of the rest of the debt, which the club could not provide.




full story at

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8505321.stm

[HarryLabrador]

If they go out of business what happens to the results of the matches already played? For instance, Manu's 9 goal win against them?

[Fletchinho]

So we would get no goal difference advantage then? Seems harsh - admittedly harsher on Pompey

I am a united fan, it wouldn't effect us much either way, but yeah, just giving points without goal difference would be unfair. I think they should award 3-0 victories to all the teams yet to play them because that is what they would do for not contesting in a game.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

But HMRC also wanted a schedule for the repayment of the rest of the debt, which the club could not provide

seeing as they dont know what division they'll be in of course they cant offer one, looks like hmrc will try to fuck them over bigtime

If they go out of business what happens to the results of the matches already played? For instance, Manu's 9 goal win against them?

they get expunged, funnily for the mancs!

[Wigwamdelbert]

If they go out of business what happens to the results of the matches already played? For instance, Manu's 9 goal win against them?

All matches played are expunged.

I am a united fan, it wouldn't effect us much either way, but yeah, just giving points without goal difference would be unfair. I think they should award 3-0 victories to all the teams yet to play them because that is what they would do for not contesting in a game.

Your results would be wiped, along with points and GD

[Fletchinho]

If they are wound up, rule 29 comes into play:

If any Club ceases during the Season to be a member of the League, the record of the League Matches in which it has participated that Season shall be expunged from the table and the number of Clubs to be relegated at the end of that Season shall be reduced so as to maintain at 20 (or, if less, as near thereto as may be) the number of Clubs in membership of the League
at the beginning of the next Season.

Nonsense

I've posted this in the other page already, but the FA ruled against this rule in 2005.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Northern_Premier_League_controversy

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I've posted this in the other page already, but the FA ruled against this rule in 2005.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Northern_Premier_League_controversy

If they are wound up, rule 29 comes into play:

If any Club ceases during the Season to be a member of the League, the record of the League Matches in which it has participated that Season shall be expunged from the table and the number of Clubs to be relegated at the end of that Season shall be reduced so as to maintain at 20 (or, if less, as near thereto as may be) the number of Clubs in membership of the League
at the beginning of the next Season.

[Wigwamdelbert]

I've posted this in the other page already, but the FA ruled against this rule in 2005.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Northern_Premier_League_controversy

It's in the Premier League rules. The PL is a ltd company run by the 20 members, FA can do FA, and the wiki link is irrelevant

[Fletchinho]

EDIT: Apologies. Some pompey fan playing on their forum.

[Alan_X]

It's in the Premier League rules. The PL is a ltd company run by the 20 members, FA can do FA, and the wiki link is irrelevant

I'd agree with that. The main difference I'd that the NPL were discussing what to do when there was no agreed procedure to deal with the situation. As the Premier League had a rule in place I can't see how it could be contested, regardless of any precedent.

[Fletchinho]

I'd agree with that. The main difference I'd that the NPL were discussing what to do when there was no agreed procedure to deal with the situation. As the Premier League had a rule in place I can't see how it could be contested, regardless of any precedent.

Thinking about it again, you are right

[gerrardspetal]

Thinking about it again, you are right

He always is

[Something Else]

To be honest I dont give a shit about the points, its more the good people who work at the club who depend on the club to make their living, sometimes on shite wages working bloody hard. Those that should the club close, will struggle to find work, and could well get into financial difficulty themselves.

Its easy when its a football club to laugh, or to hope it benefits your own team, or to think ah well the players will be fine, but all those behind the scenes will be massively affected.

Its also such a shame that clubs these days can be ran by such morons, and lets remember, our financial situation is not too bright either at the minute, although not as bad as Pompeys.

I personally hope someone will rescue them.

What is the time frame now, for them to find a solution?

[chrisfletcher]

So if they took the points gained v Portsmouth away from the other teams we'd actually go above Arsenal - albeit they'd have a game in hand.

Man City would drop 6 points behind us with 2 games in hand - so it wipes out their game in hand they have now

Horrible for Pompey supporters but ......................

[Wigwamdelbert]

To be honest I dont give a shit about the points, its more the good people who work at the club who depend on the club to make their living, sometimes on shite wages working bloody hard. Those that should the club close, will struggle to find work, and could well get into financial difficulty themselves.

Its easy when its a football club to laugh, or to hope it benefits your own team, or to think ah well the players will be fine, but all those behind the scenes will be massively affected.

Its also such a shame that clubs these days can be ran by such morons, and lets remember, our financial situation is not too bright either at the minute, although not as bad as Pompeys.

I personally hope someone will rescue them.

What is the time frame now, for them to find a solution?

All true.

I believe that the winding up order hearing was due to start at 11.30

[rob1408]

To be honest I dont give a shit about the points, its more the good people who work at the club who depend on the club to make their living, sometimes on shite wages working bloody hard. Those that should the club close, will struggle to find work, and could well get into financial difficulty themselves.

Its easy when its a football club to laugh, or to hope it benefits your own team, or to think ah well the players will be fine, but all those behind the scenes will be massively affected.

Its also such a shame that clubs these days can be ran by such morons, and lets remember, our financial situation is not too bright either at the minute, although not as bad as Pompeys.

I personally hope someone will rescue them.

What is the time frame now, for them to find a solution?

Whole heartedly agree.  I think they can appeal for another 28 days grace.  If they get that they will have to find the money owed or come to an agreement (which looks unlikely) within that time.  To be honest I think they'll go into administration today.  It's a shit state of affairs, especially for all the people that are loyal to the club, and anyone who revels in it should feel ashamed.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Whole heartedly agree.  I think they can appeal for another 28 days grace.  If they get that they will have to find the money owed or come to an agreement (which looks unlikely) within that time.  To be honest I think they'll go into administration today.  It's a shit state of affairs, especially for all the people that are loyal to the club, and anyone who revels in it should feel ashamed.

"Shame on you.."

[Something Else]

and anyone who revels in it should feel ashamed.

I agree, all this talk of how it benefits us, is a bit sickening to be honest.

This is a result of a club ran poorly, the fans and the staff (non board members etc) behind the scenes have had no control over that and are now seeing the club they love and or work for, being destroyed while all they can do is sit and wait.

Wonder how people on here, cheering the possibility of points would feel where it to be us in trouble and fans on other forums celebrating the fact they may get an extra three points on their rivals, three points that they no way deserve.

[chrisfletcher]

I agree, all this talk of how it benefits us, is a bit sickening to be honest.

This is a result of a club ran poorly, the fans and the staff (non board members etc) behind the scenes have had no control over that and are now seeing the club they love and or work for, being destroyed while all they can do is sit and wait.

Wonder how people on here, cheering the possibility of points would feel where it to be us in trouble and fans on other forums celebrating the fact they may get an extra three points on their rivals, three points that they no way deserve.

Just to say I also hope they are saved and alright - for a start we should be progressing from what we do on the pitch

Was just working it out when bored at work - sorry

[Dick_Emre]

All the latest news as it happens about Pompey Cardiff Southend and err Hinckley United FC from the Times Online...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article7021629.ece

[brunny]

Is it just a case of bad management at board level, or is it signing too many players who you can't afford, or on high wages. Cos if that is the case, they have also cheated every team they have taken points off of, and the teams who have got relegated because of this.

Now I do feel for the fans and the little men at the club, but come on, it was completely the club's fault, and like anyone at any poorly run company, everyone takes a hit.

[Graham Smith]

If reports are accurate they are playing a very dodgy game.

Their first hearing this morning was challenging the actual amount of the debt it would seem. HMRC will have a debt made up of actual declared VAT returns (self assessment effectively) for the quarters they haven't paid their VAT in, interest and late penalty charges (pretty unappealable if you haven't been paying your VAT) and the third element I suspect, the interesting stuff, "assessments".

The assessments, if they exist, are generally put on where a tax payer has under declared the duty to be paid - bearing in mind the "shadow" hanging over Pompey could any assessments be in relation to that shadow?

Assessments, once served on the Club have an appeal period - if they have ignored that they become legally payable and unless you get leave to appeal against them they stay there.

Anyway, if their first hearing today to appeal the actual sum due is knocked back then they go straight into a winding up hearing and to be honest there is very little wiggle room for the Club or Judge to do anything other than make a winding up order especially where this is an already adjourned hearing.

I have little doubt there will be a set of administration papers lying somewhere already signed by the Club and if the judge is minded to wind them up the Club will ask for a brief adjournment and then announce the administration. The winding up will then be adjourned for confirmation of the administration.

I'd estimate the chances of a winding up order today at less than 10%.

[Fletchinho]

To be honest I dont give a shit about the points, its more the good people who work at the club who depend on the club to make their living, sometimes on shite wages working bloody hard. Those that should the club close, will struggle to find work, and could well get into financial difficulty themselves.

Its easy when its a football club to laugh, or to hope it benefits your own team, or to think ah well the players will be fine, but all those behind the scenes will be massively affected.

Its also such a shame that clubs these days can be ran by such morons, and lets remember, our financial situation is not too bright either at the minute, although not as bad as Pompeys.

I personally hope someone will rescue them.

What is the time frame now, for them to find a solution?

The hearing is currently going on. They've asked for four more weeks, so if the judge rejects their request, the winding-up hearing will go on. It might be all over for them in a couple of hours. At least, that is what I think.

The only positive is that despite the huge debts, both United and Liverpool have capable businessmen in charge and not some fraud posing as an Arab prince.

[Fletchinho]

Is it just a case of bad management at board level, or is it signing too many players who you can't afford, or on high wages. Cos if that is the case, they have also cheated every team they have taken points off of, and the teams who have got relegated because of this.

Now I do feel for the fans and the little men at the club, but come on, it was completely the club's fault, and like anyone at any poorly run company, everyone takes a hit.

High wages, fake princes and dodgy management

[Trada]

Talkshite are saying its adjourned until 2pm.

[rob1408]

Talkshite are saying its adjourned until 2pm.

As did SSN.

[sinnermichael]

Is it just a case of bad management at board level, or is it signing too many players who you can't afford, or on high wages. Cos if that is the case, they have also cheated every team they have taken points off of, and the teams who have got relegated because of this.

Now I do feel for the fans and the little men at the club, but come on, it was completely the club's fault, and like anyone at any poorly run company, everyone takes a hit.

of the fa cup winning team, the likes of james, campbell, defoe, crouch and diarra were on an absolute fortune. this season they were reportedly paying john utaka (an average player at best) £80,000 a week.

there's been dodgy dealings at that club going on for ages. just look at the number of players who have moved between pompey and spurs and vice versa in the past couple of years. you're looking at double figures.